Number of wives?
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A little clarification. The verse does not say "a man may marry". Rather it is a command to the society as a whole to arrange the marriages of widows, in twos, threes, fours. For the society this has been declared "which is taba lakum". Increased number of widows remaining without marriage will certainly result in nonesense activities, for this reason it is Taba for the society to arrange marriage of widows.
Assalaam Alaikum @Mazhar.....
Where is the reference for 'widows' in Sura 43?
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Salaams Mazhar,
I remember Br. Layth and a few other people used to deny polygamy, that it exists in the quran, until he came across;
That you can't keep two sisters at the same time!
This ayah is I think talking about those of us who have been made single or are single but are not well off and are actually below you financially- and that Allah will give them means out of his grace.
Page 137 of lanes;
It?s not saying men can't take on polygamy, does it?
Dd you know hindu women can't marry when they become widowed , there are hundredes of millions of these single women in India and the men who are well off can help themselves to these women when ever they choose to without marrying them???
Assalaam Alaikum @Simple....
Sura 2432 is clear, If you are single marry only single people, that goes for both male and female.
What is the problem?
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Salams
Going slightly off track here but according to 42, "To orphans restore their property nor substitute worthless things for good ones; and devour not their substance with your own. For this is indeed a great sin," it's pretty clear that the orphans the Quran is mentioning here are the ones in your care. So connecting that with 43, it is pretty clear that the "orphan" women that are permitted for marriage here, have to already be under the care of the maintainer.
I also looked at 2240 "Those of you who die and leave widows should bequeath for their widows a year's maintenance and residence, but if they leave, there is no blame on YOU for what they do with themselves, provided it is reasonable, And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise." Who is the YOU referring to here? Is it the maintainer assigned by the widower's husband? Surely it can't be the widowers husband since he's already dead. How can he even be blamed if he's already dead?
So my understanding is that whoever was assigned caretaker of the orphans, has the opportunity to marry the "orphan" women for fear of not being able to deal justly with the orphans. Once a man marries the "orphan" women, they automatically become his responsibility as governed by the quran's marital laws. So it's not a right for any man to simply marry any woman if he desires to do so.
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The plurality of (wives) in this verse goes with the plurality of "you", so it is insignificant.
True, and it can mean one wife or a number of wives.
As is indicative by inheritance to a child or a number of CHILDREN- where does it tell us the shares for say 4 boy children? It doesn't? As for a number of wives, isn't it?
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True, and it can mean one wife or a number of wives.
As is indicative by inheritance to a child or a number of CHILDREN- where does it tell us the shares for say 4 boy children? It doesn't? As for a number of wives, isn't it?
However, I do not agree with you on th second point. The inheritance verses state a formula, so it covers all probabilities. Same as for siblings. On the other hand, no such formula exists for wives/husbands. I think this is what huruf meant, and I agree with her. No such accommodation for more than one wife can be deduced, directly or indirectly, from the inheritance verses.
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Assalaam Alaikum
Sura Nisa 411 and 412 is NOT referring to any 'plurality' of wives relative to individual Men. Again, thats merely an attempt to 'validate' falsely by implying that polgamy is sanctioned by inheritance law.
Allah (thus) directs you / Yoosee (dual pronoun ,2nd person, male & female, PLURAL)to recommend, to order, to command, to counsel, make a will
Allah is addressing ALL, male, female, and those involved in the circumstance of understanding inheritance
Sura Nisa 412 is a 'continuation' of that 'counsel' or 'command' relating to inheritance law...
In what your mates leave / Wa lakum nisfu ma taraka azwajukum (dual pronoun 2nd person, male & female, PLURAL)
Sura 411 - 412 is NOT a sanction of polygamy (multiple wives), its clearly defining inheritance law. If someone has multiple wives, mates or debts its all addressed in those ayahs.
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True, and it can mean one wife or a number of wives.
As is indicative by inheritance to a child or a number of CHILDREN- where does it tell us the shares for say 4 boy children? It doesn't? As for a number of wives, isn't it?
Assalaam Alaikum @simple....
It amazes how some of you can just say 'no verse exist', 'its not in the quran', 'it doesn't exist in the quran'
Allah states....
There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. NOTHING HAVE WE OMITTED FROM THE BOOK, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance). to the male, a portion / HATHTHI equal to that of two females.
It doesnt matter If he has 100 boys, they all split a 'portion' 'equal' to the portion of ONE of the Females. Not equal to the 'sum' of two Females but the same portion's Females spilt between thermselves.
a portion 1/4th , equal to that of two females = 2/3rd?s
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Were we to understand that the plural of wives may include the plurality of them for a particular husband, still something would be lacking. The deceased may have children with one of them and not with another, which would change everything if we are to follow known considerations in the Quran.
As to the YOU in 2.240, it must refer to the collectivity which it is addressing since the begining, which as I understand it is the community of believers, and in each occasion the part of that community which is competent for whatever action it is mentioning. In many cases it may be the community at large, like in the case of the orphans, there may be no particular maintainer appointed as such either by succession or by the deceased or by self appointment, and it falls on the whole community to see to it.
Salaam
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Were we to understand that the plural of wives may include the plurality of them for a particular husband, still something would be lacking. The deceased may have children with one of them and not with another, which would change everything if we are to follow known considerations in the Quran.
As to the YOU in 2.240, it must refer to the collectivity which it is addressing since the begining, which as I understand it is the community of believers, and in each occasion the part of that community which is competent for whatever action it is mentioning. In many cases it may be the community at large, like in the case of the orphans, there may be no particular maintainer appointed as such either by succession or by the deceased or by self appointment, and it falls on the whole community to see to it.
Salaam
Those of you / allatheena
collective, community of people
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Of which verse?
Whatever verse it is. For instance, do you find democracy in the Quran? No? Still, as a muslim, one supports the democracy? This is because we extrapolate from the Quran, that society evolves from it's teachings, and that is not in conflict with it, no, it is what it intends.
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However, I do not agree with you on th second point. The inheritance verses state a formula, so it covers all probabilities. Same as for siblings. On the other hand, no such formula exists for wives/husbands. I think this is what huruf meant, and I agree with her. No such accommodation for more than one wife can be deduced, directly or indirectly, from the inheritance verses.
Hi Samia,
In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth
Their share ia fourth but if you leave children they get an eighth , what formulae do we need?
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Those of you / allatheena
collective, community of people
Salaams Br,
can you give your translation of this ayah please;
004.003
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the Al-Yataama, then Marry what seems good to you of women, Two's, three's, four's(e.t.c); but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, though, with Oath, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.Salaams.
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Salaams Br,
can you give your translation of this ayah please;
004.003
If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the Al-Yataama, then Marry what seems good to you of women, Two's, three's, four's(e.t.c); but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, though, with Oath, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.Salaams.
Assalaam Alaikum @Simple
I addressed the verse with supportive references on this thread page #2
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
"seems good to you " is NOT in the arabic
Nor does mathna, thulatha and ruba'a mean the cardinal numbers 2,3 and 4
Please review my posts.
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Does it occur to anyone that if a passage in the Quran is this opaque, relying upon it for moral guidance in such a broad area of life could be unwise.
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Assalaam Alaikum @Simple
I addressed the verse with supportive references on this thread page #2
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597268.15
"seems good to you " is NOT in the arabic
Nor does mathna, thulatha and ruba'a mean the cardinal numbers 2,3 and 4
Please review my posts.
After checking the dictionaries they do simply mean two's,three's, fours......
Alaho Hafiz.
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Greetings@Muslimtruthrevealed,
We are NOT on the same page...your off point....
baadu / after this is referring to the 'decree that ends 'excesses' in regards to women in Sura 3337....and
in the reference to the 'exclusive' right of the Messenger to marry women of his choosing
O those who believe in the Prophet! ....ANY BELIEVING WOMAN WHO DEDICATES HER SOUL TO THE PROPHET IF THE PROPHET WISHES TO WED HER;- THIS ONLY FOR YOU, AND NOT FOR (You) THE BELIEVERS / waimraatan muminatan in wahabat nafsaha lilnnabiyyi in arada alnnabiyyu an yastankihaha/ khalisatan/ laka min dooni almumineena
Unfortunately, the English translation does NOT capture and reflect the context and meanings of the Arabic constructs.
You are correct, we are absolutely NOT on the same page and have no idea how you manage to read...
"O those who believe in the Prophet!"
Where is "O those who believe" in the verse or are you injecting your words in Quran?
3350
Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyu
You, you the Prophet!INCONCLUSIVE to infer from inheritance verses.
The basic formula is 1 ? Parents ? Spouse/s = Children share
HUSBAND
412 And for you (plural) 1/2 what your (plural) spouses/wives left, if was/is not for them (female/plural) a child...WIVES
412...and for them (female/plural) the 1/4 from what you (plural) left, if was not for you (plural) a child...The case of multiple members is distribute share evenly amongst each member; e.g.
No children, 1 sister, 2 brothers
4176 ?and for him a sister, so for her half what he left
1 ? ? sister = ? brothers (1/4 for each brother)None have yet addressed the case of the two sisters which is under general prohibition for all...
422-23 And do not marry what your fathers married from the women, except what had preceded/passed, that it was an enormous/atrocious deed, and abhorrence/hateful, and (it is an) evil way/path. Your mothers, and your daughters, and your sisters, and your paternal aunts, and your maternal aunts, and the brothers' daughters (nieces), and the sisters' daughters (nieces), and your mothers who breast fed you, and your sisters from the breast feeding, and your women's (wives' mothers (mothers in-law), and your step- daughters who (are) in your custody from your women (wives) whom you entered with them, are forbidden on you, so if you were not entered with them, so no offense/sin on you, and (also forbidden on you are) your sons' allowed/permitted women (wives) whom (are) from your backbones/genealogical relations, and that you combine between the two sisters, except what had preceded, that God was/is forgiving, merciful.
Of those things which have preceded, the exceptions moving forward are made clear above.
This is similar to marrying cousins which some cultures find appalling; not prohibited in Quran nor condoned and left as a matter of choice amongst participants. We are in no position to critique other peoples choices of who to marry -- it is their choice of lifestyle if they choose to live it as such.
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After checking the dictionaries they do simply mean two's,three's, fours......
Alaho Hafiz.
Sure they do.....
Can you please give which dictionary you have that suggests mathna, thulatha and rubaa'a are ordinal numbers 2,3 & 4?