All Mighty God?
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Dear Ironsky,
Who said that God don't know the future? If you mean to say knowing the future and making the future is same then there can be a problem. Is this what you are assuming?
Knowing one or two events prior to their happening does not constitute that those events were decided by God. In my understanding it may be the outcome of deeds which you interpreted as future.
Regards.
Although knowing the future and creating the future are completely different things, that still means that god KNEW/KNOWS what would have happened if he created human beings.
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No, no, no!!! Let's start off with what is time? Time is order. Things happen in a certain order. The smallest amount of time is the Planck time, which is 1 x 10^-43 s; there is no shorter time period. Here is how I visualize time Time began at the insant of the Big Bang. Ever since then, time has been going forward; all of time can be split into blocks of Planck time. Imagine a huge stack of papers where all the papers together symbolize time and each of the sheets individually represent the smallest piece of time possible, the Planck time. The stack would then represent all of time since the beginning of time with sheets continously being added on since time is not frozen. Time does exist; it has a micro limit and I don't know why you are saying it doesn't exist. Please present your argument here as I have not read all the posts on this topic. Concerning time travel, that is a complicated topic; I don't believe time travel into the past is possible, but time travel into the future is possible and has been verified numerous times in experiments.
You would be correct but those Planck times can stretch and distort (but not contract) depending on what frame of reference you're using.
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Yes, time can exist independent of matter. One example of this would be if there was a universe with time and space and no matter or energy. Concerning time travel into the future, it is not based on pure mathematics and it has been proven countless times, for example, with cesium clocks moving at different speeds. Concerning time travel into the past, there are many paradoxes that arise. I don't believe it's possible. It might be, especially if the universe is constantly splitting into multiple parallel universes.
It seems you are a big fan of Einsteinian physics. There is no problem with this. I prefer a simpler model of the universe based on electromagnetism without this space/time bending spooky language. Thanks for the purely mechanical and mathematical modeling that made this silly paradoxical ideas part of science.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm3N71iJJzA
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyOGjuxWhrMPeace,
Rami
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Peace "Rami",
I get your view about saying that GOD does not know the future because the furutre doesnt exist BUT your forgetting that even we humans can determine/predict many future events like rainfall, when certain cosmic bodies will collide, sociologists can also predict the behaviour of the ppl. If we knew eg all the factors involved in tossing a coin even we wld know how itd fall and wht itd land on, heads or tails. Thus if even we as humans can make so many predictions in this world then surely GOD can predict all the outcomes of everything to infinity. Also notice that the Quran says that GOD has fixed the PERIOD OF EVERYONES DEATH. So GOD must have known and set the outcome. Or do you mean to say that GOD intervenes everytime into this universe to cause a supernatural death? Im sure from your scientific viewpoints you wont. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Rami",
I get your view about saying that GOD does not know the future because the furutre doesnt exist BUT your forgetting that even we humans can determine/predict many future events like rainfall, when certain cosmic bodies will collide, sociologists can also predict the behaviour of the ppl. If we knew eg all the factors involved in tossing a coin even we wld know how itd fall and wht itd land on, heads or tails. Thus if even we as humans can make so many predictions in this world then surely GOD can predict all the outcomes of everything to infinity. Also notice that the Quran says that GOD has fixed the PERIOD OF EVERYONES DEATH. So GOD must have known and set the outcome. Or do you mean to say that GOD intervenes everytime into this universe to cause a supernatural death? Im sure from your scientific viewpoints you wont. GOD Bless!
Peace Johnny_K,
Yes, that I was talking about. God can forecast but doesn't see the future. The human self initial choice is unpredictable so God will judge you for it. God is represented through the physical laws. When you throw a teaspoon of salt into a cup of water, it is God who dissolves it. This is because God keeps the laws of physics online and can simply suspend it in the time He sees fit eg. creation and miracles. All humans die from a natural cause but it is God according to the Quran! The Quran says that God is the one who hold the birds in the air which we know is simply due to differences in air pressure. God is like the graphics and physics processor of the universe. Nothing can happen unless He allows it.
Peace,
Rami
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Peace again "Rami",
Agreed, this topic needs more thourght and deeper study. As regard God knows what will happen in the future, God doesnt see the future cuz it doesn't exist. God with His knowledge can forecast as long as the events follow some rule or law unlike your self which is unpredictable you cant actually predict what will u do in the next 5 minutes.
JK- But one can exactly do that via modern fMRI scanning the brain and shwoing the causal firing path of the neurons. Yes the predictions are not 100% but quite accurate now. Neuroscientists can even make humans do things which afterwards they claim tht they actually WILLED to do those things. The brain is not a magical organ. It follows natural laws. GOD Bless!
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Peace again "Rami",
JK- But one can exactly do that via modern fMRI scanning the brain and shwoing the causal firing path of the neurons. Yes the predictions are not 100% but quite accurate now. Neuroscientists can even make humans do things which afterwards they claim tht they actually WILLED to do those things. The brain is not a magical organ. It follows natural laws. GOD Bless!
It is not the brain. It is YOU. There is a step before this thats untouchable. Tell me where does your will start? which lobe? which neuron? and who told that neuron to fire?? what is the physics behind it?
Peace.
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Peace "Rami",
and can simply suspend it in the time He sees fit eg. creation and miracles.
JK- OH i thght you didnt beelive in the so interpreted "miracles". Bro Arnold has good explanations for the verses which are mostly understood as "miracles". Why wuld GOD violate His own laws? That doesnt make sense and it wld cause problems for us. Some criminal can then easily claim, after being caught giving a false testimony by accidentally uttering something of signicficance he cldnt otherwise have known, "well GOD put tht info into my brain just now coz in His view im evil n need to be punished". NO this is just not acceptable.
All humans die from a natural cause but it is God according to the Quran! The Quran says that God is the one who hold the birds in the air which we know is simply due to differences in air pressure.
Peace,
Rami
JK- So then humans cannot possibly have free will because what if some criminal decides to shoot somebody using free will which you say GOD couldnt have known? HOW THEN is tht person's death going to be natural and we know tht GOD said tht everyones life is fixed. This means if somebody succeeds in killing someone that was IN GOD'S PLAN and He knew when tht wld happen since He has fixed the decesased's time. GOD Bless!
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Peace "Rami",
It is not the brain. It is YOU. There is a step before this thats untouchable. Tell me where does your will start? which lobe? which neuron? and who told that neuron to fire?? what is the physics behind it?
Peace.
JK- Tell me where YOU THINK the will starts. I say that the "I" is an illlsuion FORMED DUE TO THE VERY REACTIONS IN THE BRAIN. And if you say no it is something else please describe it and how GOD created that without cause and effect. GOD Bless!
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JK- OH i thght you didnt beelive in the so interpreted "miracles". Bro Arnold has good explanations for the verses which are mostly understood as "miracles". Why wuld GOD violate His own laws? That doesnt make sense and it wld cause problems for us. Some criminal can then easily claim, after being caught giving a false testimony by accidentally uttering something of signicficance he cldnt otherwise have known, "well GOD put tht info into my brain just now coz in His view im evil n need to be punished". NO this is just not acceptable.
The laws of physics are just maintenance laws. They can be broken for a higher good eg. alibis for the prophets, or saving the prophets from trouble. Actually the beginning of the universe definintely defied the laws of physics. Regarding the criminal, people can forget and if he lied, he will punished later on.
JK- So then humans cannot possibly have free will because what if some criminal decides to shoot somebody using free will which you say GOD couldnt have known? HOW THEN is tht person's death going to be natural and we know tht GOD said tht everyones life is fixed. This means if somebody succeeds in killing someone that was IN GOD'S PLAN and He knew when tht wld happen since He has fixed the decesased's time. GOD Bless!
Everyone life is not fixed. If he dies, he dies when the prerequisites of death is there. When the prerequisites of death is there, it's God will that he dies.
JK- Tell me where YOU THINK the will starts. I say that the "I" is an illlsuion FORMED DUE TO THE VERY REACTIONS IN THE BRAIN. And if you say no it is something else please describe it and how GOD created that without cause and effect. GOD Bless!
I don't know. God is the first cause.
Peace.
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It is not the brain. It is YOU. There is a step before this thats untouchable. Tell me where does your will start? which lobe? which neuron? and who told that neuron to fire?? what is the physics behind it?
Peace.
Rami I must say I strongly disagree with you on your view of time, but I agree with you that there is something besides the brain. Here's the way I view a human being
- Physical section ( body )
- Mental section ( brain )
- Conscious section ( soul )
- Spiritual section ( spirit )
I cannot explain the spirit, but I will describe the other three. The body is the input. All the information gathered by your senses is sent to the brain as electrical signals; for example, when you touch something, your body sends an electrical signal to your brain that makes you experience that touch. The brain is the output. The electrical signals sent to the brain by the body are converted into experiences. The soul is the receiver. Where is the soul located? I don't know. However, there must be something beyond the brain for many reasons. If you want to know some of these reasons, tell me and I'll post.
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Rami I must say I strongly disagree with you on your view of time, but I agree with you that there is something besides the brain. Here's the way I view a human being
- Physical section ( body )
- Mental section ( brain )
- Conscious section ( soul )
- Spiritual section ( spirit )
I cannot explain the spirit, but I will describe the other three. The body is the input. All the information gathered by your senses is sent to the brain as electrical signals; for example, when you touch something, your body sends an electrical signal to your brain that makes you experience that touch. The brain is the output. The electrical signals sent to the brain by the body are converted into experiences. The soul is the receiver. Where is the soul located? I don't know. However, there must be something beyond the brain for many reasons. If you want to know some of these reasons, tell me and I'll post.
Salam BT,
Agreed except for the spirit part. The spirit is part of God's command 'Be' used for creation. You don't have a spirit. You are only a soul 'nafs'. I agree there is something beyond the brain. I will be glad if you post your reasons why you think so.
Salam.
Rami
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Salam BT,
Agreed except for the spirit part. The spirit is part of God's command 'Be' used for creation. You don't have a spirit. You are only a soul 'nafs'. I agree there is something beyond the brain. I will be glad if you post your reasons why you think so.
Salam.
Rami
One of the main reasons this has to be true ( and please share reasons that you may know of that I don't know ) is because the universe operates through physics. If there was nothing beyond the brain, then I can not see how there would be free will. Let me show you what I mean. First off, we know that according to the Quran, a person is judged by the actions he/she commits alone; nobody will be judged for something they didn't do. We have free will, and with that free will, we have choice; we have the abiliy to chose to do one thing instead of another. If we choose to do a bad action, then we have commited a sin; if we choose to do a good action, the we have commited a good deed. Second off, the physics of the universe are the same everywhere, including your brain. This is very important. If I threw a pencil in the air and I knew specific information about it, then I could determine where the pencil will land, how long it will take it to land, how fast its moving at any point in time, and so on. If there was nothing beyond the brain, then that would mean that the choices we make would be the outcome of physical interactions that we're affected by, not by our own will. Any choice we make would be based upon what a certain neuron or something did physically. I hope you understand what I mean. There are other reasons as well, but this is the only one I'm going to put here.
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One of the main reasons this has to be true ( and please share reasons that you may know of that I don't know ) is because the universe operates through physics. If there was nothing beyond the brain, then I can not see how there would be free will. Let me show you what I mean. First off, we know that according to the Quran, a person is judged by the actions he/she commits alone; nobody will be judged for something they didn't do. We have free will, and with that free will, we have choice; we have the abiliy to chose to do one thing instead of another. If we choose to do a bad action, then we have commited a sin; if we choose to do a good action, the we have commited a good deed. Second off, the physics of the universe are the same everywhere, including your brain. This is very important. If I threw a pencil in the air and I knew specific information about it, then I could determine where the pencil will land, how long it will take it to land, how fast its moving at any point in time, and so on. If there was nothing beyond the brain, then that would mean that the choices we make would be the outcome of physical interactions that we're affected by, not by our own will. Any choice we make would be based upon what a certain neuron or something did physically. I hope you understand what I mean. There are other reasons as well, but this is the only one I'm going to put here.
Excellent reasoning, if there is nothing behind the brain and the brain obeys the laws of physics, we will have only reflexes. No freewill and no creativity.
Peace.
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Excellent reasoning, if there is nothing behind the brain and the brain obeys the laws of physics, we will have only reflexes. No freewill and no creativity.
Peace.
Exactly.
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The issue of time being a creation of the mind is an interesting topic. I can see both sides of the arguement and I dont know which one to pick. I guess this goes back to the original question. If god created the future then that puts us into a whole slew of paradoxes.
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Rami I must say I strongly disagree with you on your view of time, but I agree with you that there is something besides the brain. Here's the way I view a human being
- Physical section ( body )
- Mental section ( brain )
- Conscious section ( soul )
- Spiritual section ( spirit )
I cannot explain the spirit, but I will describe the other three. The body is the input. All the information gathered by your senses is sent to the brain as electrical signals; for example, when you touch something, your body sends an electrical signal to your brain that makes you experience that touch. The brain is the output. The electrical signals sent to the brain by the body are converted into experiences. The soul is the receiver. Where is the soul located? I don't know. However, there must be something beyond the brain for many reasons. If you want to know some of these reasons, tell me and I'll post.
Peace,
The electrical signals who enter the brain will converts to thoughts and the thoughts wents out up in the universum and back again to us.
Maria
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Peace,
The electrical signals who enter the brain will converts to thoughts and the thoughts wents out up in the universum and back again to us.
Maria
Peace. Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
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Peace. Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Peace,
I'm trying to say that we humans are filled with source energy and everything around us, the animals, trees, plants, cars, planets, stars, sun and moon etc all have this energy and we use this energy even if we are not aware of it.
There are special energy zones located on a human body so called chakras one of the chakras is located in the head and is the so called third eye, I think the sixth sense is also part of this and it can be the spirit. Not all can naturally use the third eye but it can be trained so we can gain from it.
Maybe we are not fully aware if we cannot use this gift. In Quran it says that some bow down because they are forced to do while other ones do it with free will.
Maria
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Peace Diem,
If God knows everything that is going to happen, what is the point of creating humans if he knows what they are going to do? What I have been taught for my whole life is that god created humans to see who would worship him and who wouldn't, but he already knows so whats the point?
This is a paradoxical question that comes up now and again. There's no perfect answer, unfortunately. The way I understand it is this the future is NOT pre-written. It is dynamic, changing every moment with every decision made. however, there are not an infinite amount of decisions made. There are limits.
In it's simplest form, imagine a mouse in a maze. There is one entrance and many exits, and many forks along the way. Now with each turn at each fork, the overall path becomes apparent. The observer can see where the mouse is headed. And then again with the next fork, and the next one.
It's easy to see that God can in fact know where you're headed while not dictating your direction.
Peace,
Tay