All Mighty God?
-
I think what the original poster is trying to say is why'd God create ANYTHING? What was the point? Why didn't God just leave Himself as the only thing in existance? He didn't need angels to do anything for Him, since He could just say "Be!" and it will be. He knowingly created Satan to rebel, so he can create humans, but the question is WHY. What was the point? Did God get lonely? Was He bored? Is He bound by something Himself...a need to create? Is He a Supreme Intelligence and Force, or is He just a Supreme Force? He has to be a Supreme Intelligence, if we accept the Qur'an, because we're required to bow to Him and refrain from putting up partners next to Him. It's also obvious that we're not the last of creation, and we may not have been the first. It says somewhere in the Qur'an that when this universe is destroyed and Judgement day passes, a new universe will be put in its place. So what is the damn point of all of this?
I can understand the proofs of the authenticity of the Qur'an, and the chronological events of history and religion till now...but I just don't understand the time when there was only God and nothing else. It kills me a bit inside, lol. xD
-
Peace to all,
Fuhrer, my standard answer usually is, God was asked by the angels why he created us and he said, he knows whay you dont know, which is a perfectly acceptable answer to me, however, I also understand the human desire to question things and to learn for themselves. I dont think God was bored, he is self sufficient, but he is also loving and compassionate and merciful, which takes other forms of creation for him to share these qualities with, so even though he created angels and others, they only do what he says at all times, but have no free will. It seems that truth is one and has no quarrels with itself, and we are all one in God as part of the same spirit of God, however, God decided to split his creation into two realities and we become a part that was both divided and complete at the same time, the struggle was now within us since mankind was given free will, which even the mountains refused, which is matter,,,matter does only what it is told to do by God with its physical properties, hence they do not reason and rationalize, they just exist, we as humans can use our God given faculties to use matter for any purpose we want, we can make beautiful art or nuclear bombs, we can show the side of love and compassion or destroy each other with crimes and wars, so we are being tested by God, and he has given us believers an advantage and guidance, yet he has also allowed us to be tempted and misled, the choice is ours, its perfectly just. So, though God is testing us maybe he is also testing himself through us. I also know that this life is nothing but the temporary enjoyment of delusion and one day the perfect and eternal reality will become crystal clear to us all, and then we will have our answers, I get the sense one day soon we all be standing before our God saying" wow , it all makes perfect sense now" lets just try to be on the side of the righteous until then.
Kurt
-
Dear Dime,
I think you missed my last post and still asking for explanation. Let me try again in a simple way. Please keep in mind that I am presenting my understanding so I have to give judgments according to my understanding. If you find me telling you wrong is only due to my understanding and not because it is a truth or a fact. So please don?t get it as personal attack.
Your assumptions are wrong in many ways due to your misunderstandings regarding His system.I think basic problem may be that you are assuming that GOD has decided the outcome of everything in this world and the hereafter.
If you consider that he makes or does everything and he knows what we will do then it is an assumption by you. I have not found any verse telling us this fact. The verses where God tells us that the outcome of these worldly affairs is according to his will and he makes those things happen then this is understandable but if you assume from these kinds of verses that he has decided the outcome of the hereafter too then that is the point where the real mess begins.
Brother according to my understanding this is quite incorrect assumption on your part. If you know the basic reason of creation of human, this world and all what is in it is then it becomes crystal clear. The reason according to my understanding is to test us. If this all is to test us then it is a matter of simple commonsense that all the outcomes within this worldly life will be part of the test in other words prior decisions made by the examiner. For example if two people make a same kind of store at the same corner of a same street you will observe that number of customers will not be same. What do you think Why is that so? There is not a single verse in Quran according to my knowledge which tells that outcome of the hereafter (whatever it is) is already determined by God. In my understanding out come of the hereafter has not been decided by him but he decides it according to our deeds.
Now the other problem i see is the misunderstanding of the concept of death. There is no such thing as death in a sense we see death i.e. end of life. This is no end of life but just end of one span of worldly life to check and dealt according to deeds at hand and resumes accordingly. Quran tells us that it is a continuous cycle till the day of yawma alqiyamati (halting or standing of time) taqoomu alssaAAatu (standing of the hour) or yaumuddin (systems day).
Here is the reason for the above understanding.
3055
Free_Minds
And the Day the Hour is established, the criminals will swear that they have remained only for an hour! Thus they were deluded.3056
Free_Minds
And those who were given knowledge and faith said "You have remained according to God's decree until the Day of Resurrection; so this is the Day of Resurrection, but you did not know."I hope that this will help.
Regards.
-
Peace all
It seems that there is an assumption that God knows all the individual decisions each of us will make in this world. Is this an assumption we are all making? Is there anywhere in the quran that this is actually stated rather than it being an assumption on our part?
Is it not possible that God has placed limits on HImself as regards the decisions we make? I believe that He has created out of nothing & this is beyond our comprehension. However, with regard to our lives here, he has established laws by which everything operates. He does not transgress or hange these laws. What do you think?
I was once told that to say that God has placed restrictions on Himself is "shirk". My opinion is that to say God cannot place restrictions on HImself would more likely constitute "shirk". What do you all think?
Imraan
-
Is there any answer yet,
this is creating a ton of doubt in my mind that I would prefer was not there... &I'll ask, as simply as I can.
If God is omniscient, what is the need to create humans in the first place because if God is omniscient, God would have known the outcome of his creation.
Peace Diem
At the moment i think this.
If God knows the outcome, then he probabely knows the ouctome of our contribution to his plan or something like that.Thus if God knows what happens with us in the end and God has chosen to go ahead by bringing us into being, then we are necessary in his plan.
For Example I plan on having a safe boxing match with someone. I know a certain material can provide good protection in this boxing match. I get the material and create some sort of helmet with it.
Just because i knew the outcome and the effects of the helmet, dosn't mean i shouldn't go ahead with making it. In this case the material was neccasary to make the helmet to meet the higher purpose of having a safe boxing match. Perhaps the outcome of our freewill and the hereafter is part a bigger picture that we are not able to comprehend.
Really sorry for the bad example but believe me i sat down for about 10 mins thinking of one.
Also do not forget that God is beyond your preception. A concept such as reason may not even apply to God.Don't let things which have elements that our beyond your preception bring doubt into your heart.
Think on the things you personally have experienced. Think on why your grew stronger in faith. You must have seen or gained some sort of knowledge.Does this question which you now ask out-weigh those things even though it's way beyond you abillity to judge this issue?
It's great that you ask such questions just don't suffer doubt. Remember everything and stay strong.peace
God bless -
If we do not know what God is, how can we discuss why "He" does this or that?
I completely agree
This is what i meant by beyond perception and how reason may not apply to God. -
Dear Fuhrer,
The posted translation is incorrect. the word used in this verse is
Arabic - English
,
era , epoch , period , time , ageconfined to bed , be chronically ill , chronically ill , feeble , feckless , effete , disabled , unsound
Correct translation according to my understanding is
every man's age(era) actions are attached to his neck, and We will bring forth to him on the resurrection day a book in which he will find wide open
Here are few other translations
1713
Literal And every human/mankind We obliged/compelled him his action/anger in his neck (made himresponsible), and We bring out/make emerge for him (on) the Resurrection Day a Book/judgment he finds it spread/publicized .
Free_Minds And We have attached to every person's neck his deeds, and We bring forth for him a record on the Day of Resurrection which he will find on display.
Khalifa We have recorded the fate of every human being; it is tied to his neck. On the Day of Resurrection we will hand him a record that is accessible.
Yusuf_Ali Every man's fate We have fastened on his own neck On the Day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open.
Shakir And We have made every man's actions to cling to his neck, and We will bring forth to him on the resurrection day a book which he will find wide open
Pickthal And every man's augury have We fastened to his own neck, and We shall bring forth for him on the Day of Resurrection a book which he will find wide open.
QXP All deeds of the humans are instantly recorded on their "Self", as if the record book is fastened to their own necks. And We shall bring forth this record book wide open to them on the Day of Resurrection.
I hope now it will become clear.
Regards.
-
The verses where God tells us that the outcome of these worldly affairs is according to his will and he makes those things happen then this is understandable but if you assume from these kinds of verses that he has decided the outcome of the hereafter too then that is the point where the real mess begins.
I'm sorry but this makes no sense what so ever. You said that God tells us that everything happens according to his will and your also saying that he doesn't decide the outcome. Maybe you could explain it better. brickwall
-
I'm sorry but this makes no sense what so ever. You said that God tells us that everything happens according to his will and your also saying that he doesn't decide the outcome. Maybe you could explain it better.
Peace Diem,
The idea you want ''a more explanation of'' is a paradox and false. God doesn't know what u will do tomorrow. He may know ur potential choices but He Doesn't know what you will choose. God is still omniscient because what will u do is not a THING yet cuz there is no such thing as time travel cuz there is no such thing as time just changes in matter. So when a change occurs in the universe or u do something God will be the first to know and so will be recorded with Him. God can forecast events just like the weather but your actions is a bit unpredictable so you will be judged for it.
Peace,
Rami.
-
Peace Diem,
The idea you want ''a more explanation of'' is a paradox and false. God doesn't know what u will do tomorrow. He may know ur potential choices but He Doesn't know what you will choose. God is still omniscient because what will u do is not a THING yet cuz there is no such thing as time travel cuz there is no such thing as time just changes in matter. So when a change occurs in the universe or u do something God will be the first to know and so will be recorded with Him. God can forecast events just like the weather but your actions is a bit unpredictable so you will be judged for it.
Peace,
Rami.
What are you talking about? Time is a complex subject, but you don't understand it at all.
-
What are you talking about? Time is a complex subject, but you don't understand it at all.
Peace BT,
This is because you are brainwashed by scientific dogma and hollywood movies. You CANT travel through time because you have to change all the particles positions. Thats why God never talks about the myth of time travel. Get out of this paradoxes.
Peace
Rami
-
Peace belal,
Yes because thats God promises and God promises will come true because He will do it! It is like saying 'consider it done'. You have to get out of this time travel nonsense otherwise you are creating paradoxes you can't get out from. If God know what You will say and do, how on earth did He speak to Moses?? Don't you see how awkward that is?? brickwall It is like He knows what Moses will say and God is just saying His part in the play. Nonsense.
594 O you who believe, God will test you with some of the game for hunting coming within reach of your hands and your spears, so that God will know who reveres Him when unseen. Whoever aggresses after this, then he will have a painful retribution.
Look at the previous verse, you will see that God tests us so He can know who revers Him. I thought He knew already. peace
Peace.
Peace Rami
That's a great observation. I agree that the God tells us in the verse 594 in the Quran that he tests humans so that he will know.
If we analyze that verse, we can easily see that god is telling us that he don't know what we will do and that this is the reason why is testing us. At the same time, i don't think we should take any fast conclusions, because as we know for God everything is possible. God also knows what will happen in the future; i have read this in a verse (correct me if i am wrong). Someone who knows what will happen in the future will also know what we will do. So therefore i don't think that we should take any fast conclusions before we have studied this issue more. I think its an interesting interpretation rami, and it is very logical. But i think that it can be wrong, because we have to study the whole quran (see things in context) before we decide that god does not know what we will do in the future. If we compare different verses and analyze more, and then find out that all facts are telling us that Time travel does not exist, then yes, that verse alone (594) will be enough to interpretate it that way.
-
Dear Dime,
I'm sorry but this makes no sense what so ever. You said that God tells us that everything happens according to his will and your also saying that he doesn't decide the outcome. Maybe you could explain it better. brickwall
Please read again what I have posted and pay attention to the words. I have not said that everything happens according to his will. My words were outcome of these worldly affairs is according to his will. If you read my answer carefully I have tried to hint it with the example. What I mean to say is whatever we do its outcome is decided by God in this world. He does not interfere in our decisions of doing things but he does not always allow the outcome as we assume.
I hope that you understand the reason for our creation. According to my understanding, that is to test our faith. If he would have set the parameters of outcome according to the actions in this world too then nobody would have done wrong after some time. This doubt about outcome is actually the real test for us.
If you read my example then you will see that the outcome will be different for both the shops and God has given the instructions regarding our actions. For the one who gets more has more responsibility and the one who gets less has less responsibility regarding helping others. Whatever outcome God decides is only to check what will be our reaction. There is no verse in my knowledge which says that everything is predetermined except our time in this world(age), good and bad times or the outcome of the matters regarding the actions done by us.
God has left the outcome of our deeds in set parameters only for the next life and not for this worldly life.
I hope you will be able to understand my understanding of the matter now. Let me know if this is still not clear to you.Regards.
-
Peace David_k,
Agreed, this topic needs more thourght and deeper study. As regard God knows what will happen in the future, God doesnt see the future cuz it doesn't exist. God with His knowledge can forecast as long as the events follow some rule or law unlike your self which is unpredictable you cant actually predict what will u do in the next 5 minutes. Plus God interacts with us and gets influenced with prayer as per the Quran. This is only way to get out of the ''prayer'' paradox. God is online and follows up our every move and is always interacting with His creation and He never get tired of the management of the heavens and earth. Consider the following verse
5529 Those in the heavens and Earth ask Him, everyday He is in some matter.
A busy God indeed. God is like an entrepreneur. He founded and manages the heavens and the earth and no one share in His ownership and management.
Peace,
Rami
-
Peace to all,
I have to completely disagree that God doesnt know the future, how is it possible that some humans can see some future events but God cant. I know this as a fact because it has happened to me a few times, no im not saying i have gifts or im some special person, but i did see things that occurred exactly as i saw them, how do you explain that, and if i could see a future event, why wouldnt God be able to see and know them all?
Kurt
-
Dear Ironsky,
Who said that God don't know the future? If you mean to say knowing the future and making the future is same then there can be a problem. Is this what you are assuming?
Knowing one or two events prior to their happening does not constitute that those events were decided by God. In my understanding it may be the outcome of deeds which you interpreted as future.
Regards.
-
Peace BT,
This is because you are brainwashed by scientific dogma and hollywood movies. You CANT travel through time because you have to change all the particles positions. Thats why God never talks about the myth of time travel. Get out of this paradoxes.
Peace
Rami
No, no, no!!! Let's start off with what is time? Time is order. Things happen in a certain order. The smallest amount of time is the Planck time, which is 1 x 10^-43 s; there is no shorter time period. Here is how I visualize time Time began at the insant of the Big Bang. Ever since then, time has been going forward; all of time can be split into blocks of Planck time. Imagine a huge stack of papers where all the papers together symbolize time and each of the sheets individually represent the smallest piece of time possible, the Planck time. The stack would then represent all of time since the beginning of time with sheets continously being added on since time is not frozen. Time does exist; it has a micro limit and I don't know why you are saying it doesn't exist. Please present your argument here as I have not read all the posts on this topic. Concerning time travel, that is a complicated topic; I don't believe time travel into the past is possible, but time travel into the future is possible and has been verified numerous times in experiments.
-
Peace BT,
Can time exist independant of matter? Can time exist independant of change? if there is no changing matter there is no time. Time is a perception of your brain about the surrounding changes. Time travel is impossible in the past and the future because you have to reallign all the particles of the universe at the set time to go there. For example, if you want to go back to Noah's time, you will literally have to revive Noah and undo all that happened from Noah's time till now, I mean undo every single particle to particle interaction between the two times and this mean the world as we know it will disappear like rewinding a video, you lose the current frame to get to an earlier frame, you cant have both frames working at the same time eg. You cant have Noah and Moses existing at the same time. The idea of time travel is based on pure mathematics with no empirical evidence whatsoever.
Peace,
Rami.
-
Peace BT,
Can time exist independant of matter? Can time exist independant of change? if there is no changing matter there is no time. Time is a perception of your brain about the surrounding changes. Time travel is impossible in the past and the future because you have to reallign all the particles of the universe at the set time to go there. For example, if you want to go back to Noah's time, you will literally have to revive Noah and undo all that happened from Noah's time till now, I mean undo every single particle to particle interaction between the two times and this mean the world as we know it will disappear like rewinding a video, you lose the current frame to get to an earlier frame, you cant have both frames working at the same time eg. You cant have Noah and Moses existing at the same time. The idea of time travel is based on pure mathematics with no empirical evidence whatsoever.
Peace,
Rami.
Yes, time can exist independent of matter. One example of this would be if there was a universe with time and space and no matter or energy. Concerning time travel into the future, it is not based on pure mathematics and it has been proven countless times, for example, with cesium clocks moving at different speeds. Concerning time travel into the past, there are many paradoxes that arise. I don't believe it's possible. It might be, especially if the universe is constantly splitting into multiple parallel universes.