Poll for brothers only
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Salam,
Please read
2432
Shakir
And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.and
2433
Shakir
And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.Disclaimer The Arabic is there if you can read Arabic. The Translation is there for a guide. No translation is accurate.
Salam,
Arnab -
salam samia. the reason you ask this question, is not because you want an answer from me.
you have the quran in your hand, and you can read arabic.
did you see the words adultery and fornication in my post, no you did not.
when you can read arabic, and you know each one of my statements is true.
then your niyat for asking this question is suspect.
what is your niyat for asking this question?allah is the truth
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salam belalh. you are using your twisted method of debate again. i pointed this out to you before.
you make up claims, in your mind, then say another person has said this, then you demand the person defend the claim you made up.
do you see anywhere in my post the claim that "a quran verse approves of mistress and girlfriend"
no, you did not.
that came from your mind.
then you claim i said this.
and then you demand i defend what you made up.allah exposes falsehood with the truth.
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Salaaman Hammad,
Which verses that approve Mistress or Girlfriend?
I this aayat may clear off things inshaAllah.
55 Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, and your food is lawful to them. And , in wedlock, women from among those who believe, and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. But as for him who rejects belief - in vain will be all his works for in the life to come he shall be among the lost.
(55)
What do you think?
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path pr
Khan
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salam arnab. the verses you quote relate to marriage. they do not prohibit a mistress or girlfriend.
your translation of 2433 is defective in more than one instance.
first there is no prohibition on that verse because the word for prohibit, haram, is not present in that sentence.
secondly the word, wa leystaafifi, specifically wlystaaff, the root of which is aaff, is not the same as the arabic word aafif, which means chaste.
the difference lies between, aaff and aafif.
if you examine the different translations, the translators say the variations of aaff mean different things in different verses. one variation i see is they claim it means modest, which is more in keeping with the issue of means, the context of that verse. in other words, remain modest until you have the means.
there is no apparent consistency in context between chastity and means, does that mean a poor person should divorce his wives? there is a western pagan practice of wives divorcing their husbands if allah tries them with poverty. allah uses trials and poverty to expose the disbelievers. allah also uses the trial of poverty to rid a believer of a disbelieving spouse, because the disbeliever tries to turn the believer away from allah.
regardless, you have not found a verse that prohibits a mistress or a girlfriend.
allah is the truth.
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salam mmkhan. 55 does not prohibit, make haram, a mistress or girlfriend. the word haram is not in that sentence.
if i accept your translation as correct. your translation could be used to prove my point.
if it says, a secret love companion is dissaproved, not forbidden, dissaproved.
then a non secret love companion, an open love companion, is not dissaproved or forbidden.
therefore, an open love companion is mubah.what is interesting is, allah has used the word akhdan, in the quran, which is claimed to mean secret lovers.
allah has not said in the quran, wa akhdan harramun aleyka. therefore it is not haram, prohibited.
the most anyone can claim is secret is makruh, disliked.none of this prohibits or dissaproves of an open mistress or girlfriend,
allah is the law.
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salam hope. please understand that i am trying to reply to people who non arabic speakers. the result is they are using terms and definitions, repeatedly, that are english, not arabic, and have no arabic equivalent. they expect arabic words to have meaning consistent with their english understanding, which it does not. as a result we have your question.
mmkhan referred to the verse55 and this verse uses the word akhdan. translators of this word claim it means "secret love companion"
the closest one can come to standard english usage is to say, secret mistress or girlfriend. the converse of secret is open. therefore, if the mistress or girlfriend is not secret, she would be an open mistress or open girlfriend. the point of the use of the term "open mistress" is to demonstrate to mmkhan that the issue is not mistress or girlfriend, the issue is secrecy and openness.
allah is the one who teaches.
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Peace Al Araf,
55 Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, and your food is lawful to them. And , in wedlock, women from among those who believe, and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time -provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. But as for him who rejects belief - in vain will be all his works for in the life to come he shall be among the lost.
What about this part?
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salam alalmakt. the translation you are using is flawed, so much so that in order to to remedy the situation would take a lot of time.
when i read this verse it is telling me that the food we made lawful for them is made lawful for you and the food we made lawful for you is made lawful for them. then it goes on to say and the good things, mohsinaat, are permitted to you. how the translators switched between food and women is very puzzling to me. the word for women is nisaa, which is not present in this verse. the word mohsinaat, which derives from the word hasana, good, is being used as a term for good women, which quite honestly is a huge stretch. good women would be ahsan min al nisaa.
when it comes to the word in question, masafiheen, for which the root word is safaha, or that poured forth, it reminds me of the verse that says the blood poured forth is forbidden. i am aware of lane's attempt to equate pouring forth with fornication, however i do not see the connection. what i see is a continuation of the theme of food, here judging by the beginning of the sentence, where it talks about taam, eating, and the title of the surah which is al maida, food.
this is why i was hesistant to accept the use of the term akhdan as secret love companion, in mmkhan's previous post.
i have an opinion as to what the purpose of surah al maida is, however this would mean i would have to get into a discussion of the injeel, an i am aware that we have moderators on the forum, who despite being moderators on a free minds forum, have not so free minds, and have attacked me in private for talking about torah and injeel. you can imagine the discussion, they refuse to accept injeel is the red letter section of the new testament, claiming it was changed, and i got threats and warnings. ironically, if there is hippy pagan christian version of the quran, which is all we are equal, kumbaya, that is fine. i refuse to be portayed as this kind of hippy person, i am not, i am a old fashioned traditionalist muslim and very glad to be counted amongst those of the past including the blessed messenger muhammad.
allah hu akbar.
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i have an opinion as to what the purpose of surah al maida is, however this would mean i would have to get into a discussion of the injeel, an i am aware that we have moderators on the forum, who despite being moderators on a free minds forum, have not so free minds, and have attacked me in private for talking about torah and injeel. you can imagine the discussion, they refuse to accept injeel is the red letter section of the new testament, claiming it was changed, and i got threats and warnings. ironically, if there is hippy pagan christian version of the quran, which is all we are equal, kumbaya, that is fine. i refuse to be portayed as this kind of hippy person, i am not, i am a old fashioned traditionalist muslim and very glad to be counted amongst those of the past including the blessed messenger muhammad.
allah hu akbar.
Salam,
I am one of the most outspoken members of this forum who advocate reading the Torah and Injeel.
I discusses The Torah and Injeel frequently on Free-Minds and usually go into great detail.
I have NEVER ever had a moderator of this forum attack, criticize, warn or threaten me in private or in public for this.
If any of the moderators acted as you described, logically, I would be one of the first ones to experience such behavior.
And, I have not.
Al Araf, It is because of this that I am going to call you a flat out Liar.
I have found the moderators of this forum to be very flexible, open minded, and fair.
If you have been warned or "felt" criticized for something I would say it was well deserved, as I have read the content of your posts. It would not have been for discussing the Torah or Injeel or any other religious text.
Salam,
Arnab -
salam arnab. dont ever call me a liar. i can post the complete message here. however in order not to embarass the moderator i will post part of the message.
salaam/peace, You have been issued a formal warning for the following 1) Misleading the forum when saying "Allah" sanctions stoning to death, then quoting The Bible as evidence. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15898
allah is the truth.
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salam belalh. you are using your twisted method of debate again. i pointed this out to you before.
Peace Al Araf
This time I will ask you a very straight Question, so you do not get angry.If you have a Sister or a daughter, would you not get mad if she becomes a Mistress or a Girlfriend of a Moslem Man?
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salam belalh. this is a well known tactic that you are using. please advise yourself this is called "an appeal to emotion" a logical fallacy. you are trying to appeal to my emotion, using your emotions. my family is not a subject for discussion on this forum. your attempt to violate their privacy and go behind the veil is noted, dissaproved, and rejected. i never brought your family in here, dont try and bring my family in here.
the subject is quran study, for believers. if quran study fails to provide you with what you want to hear, this is what you will resort to. the quran calls this kind of listening, a listener for the sake of a lie. if you have problems with this issue, you are going to have more problems with the quran. the quran says, ask not that about which if revealed to you will cause you distress? you are distressed, why did you ask about it?
allah is the truth.
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salam alalmakt. the translation you are using is flawed, so much so that in order to to remedy the situation would take a lot of time.
when i read this verse it is telling me that the food we made lawful for them is made lawful for you and the food we made lawful for you is made lawful for them. then it goes on to say and the good things, mohsinaat, are permitted to you. how the translators switched between food and women is very puzzling to me. the word for women is nisaa, which is not present in this verse. the word mohsinaat, which derives from the word hasana, good, is being used as a term for good women, which quite honestly is a huge stretch. good women would be ahsan min al nisaa.
when it comes to the word in question, masafiheen, for which the root word is safaha, or that poured forth, it reminds me of the verse that says the blood poured forth is forbidden. i am aware of lane's attempt to equate pouring forth with fornication, however i do not see the connection. what i see is a continuation of the theme of food, here judging by the beginning of the sentence, where it talks about taam, eating, and the title of the surah which is al maida, food.
this is why i was hesistant to accept the use of the term akhdan as secret love companion, in mmkhan's previous post.
Al Arf
salam
you are absolutely wrong in your above assertions, and i am a little surprised that you are a native arab speeker , and yet you have your basics wrong?
Let me tell you what is HS7N, and what do the words derived from it mean.
The root word HSN has the basic meaning as ," To protect , to lock , to save, to shield " etc, but the language of quran conveys a certain understanding through its usage.
when we use the word protected , for a women in contrast to lewdness , or Mussafa , it means the women is desirous of protecting herself from committing Fahisha, or we can say she guards herself from out pouring her sexuality in an illegal way, and Quran has a title for such women, CHASTE WOMEN, OR MOHSINNATS OUT OF NISSA. The same women , when enter into a bond /nikah /Ahsinna , it means now they are protected , or we can say that these women who protect /want to protect themselves from committing fahishas have another mean or shield , which would further aid them in maintaining Chastity.
To elaborate my point, let me show you other examples of the usage of this root in the same context, from Quran.
The building which protects , we name it as "Fortress" the same root HS7N is used ,
59-14They do not get together to fight you unless they are in well-shielded buildings,(Qari a ul hassana) or behind walls. Their might appears formidable among themselves. You would think that they are united, when in fact their hearts are divided. This is because they are people who do not understand.
and the same root word when used in connection to dress , we have a name for it again, "BODY ARMOUR"
21-80 It was We Who taught him the making of coats of mail (ssana tul laboos) for your benefit, to protect(leetuhasannkum) you from each other's violence will ye then be grateful?
"Ahsanati Farjaha" means protected sexual organs , which conveys the meaning of "virginity"
21-91 As for the one who maintained her virginity(walti ahsanti farjaha), we blew into her from our spirit, and thus, we made her and her son a portent for the whole world
peace
siki
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salam belalh. this is a well known tactic that you are using. please advise yourself this is called "an appeal to emotion" a logical fallacy. you are trying to appeal to my emotion, using your emotions. my family is not a subject for discussion on this forum. your attempt to violate their privacy and go behind the veil is noted, dissaproved, and rejected. i never brought your family in here, dont try and bring my family in here.
There is no different between your family and the Females that you are debating with in this thread. All are equal in front of God. If you want the Females to accept what you are promoting, then if you are sure it is 100% Halal, why can't you answer my Question? or do you think Mistress and Girlfriend are not for your Family but for other Females who are not related to you.
Do not be a Hypocrite >( -
salam siki. be careful about making claims as to what an arabic word means. if you are a native arabic speaker, you should be aware that arabic words have multiple meanings. the way you sort out which meaning is being used is the context of the sentence. this is not an infallible method, however, both meanings may be relevant, at the same time.
if i say to you "al tayyarah fil al samaa" and "al malaik fi al samaa" one is a plane in the heavens, and the other is an angel in the heavens. though the word samaa is used in both places, one is open the other is hidden. the word heavens is like the word samaa, it has a two meanings, an earthly meaning and an spiritual meaning. this is a vexing problem in translation, find english words that convey all the meanings in arabic when translating. sometimes it is just not possible.
this creates a problem with the translation of 55 that was provided. the word taam is used, which means to eat. the verse right before is is also discussion what to eat. how does a womans chastity suddenly jump into a discussion of what to eat. think. it just does not make sense.
this is why i say i am not convinced the translation provided of 55 is an accurate rendering. an examination of other translations shows translators using other english words. the issue in in my opinion unresolved. when i have a better set of english words to use in translation of this verse i can provide it at that time.
allah is the teacher.
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salam arnab. dont ever call me a liar. i can post the complete message here. however in order not to embarass the moderator i will post part of the message.
salaam/peace, You have been issued a formal warning for the following 1) Misleading the forum when saying "Allah" sanctions stoning to death, then quoting The Bible as evidence. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=15898
allah is the truth.
Let's review, shall we?
Al Araf says
.... i am aware that we have moderators on the forum, who despite being moderators on a free minds forum, have not so free minds, and have attacked me in private for talking about torah and injeel. you can imagine the discussion, they refuse to accept injeel is the red letter section of the new testament, claiming it was changed, and i got threats and warnings. ironically, if there is hippy pagan christian version of the quran, which is all we are equal, kumbaya, that is fine.
You say that you were attacked in private for talking about Torah and Injeel.
Then when I tell you that you are lying you produce an alleged message from a moderator that DOES NOT attack or threaten you about talking about Torah or Injeel.
It DOES WARN you about LYING about ALLAH. (If you would like to debate this issue I will be happy to do so in another thread)
So even this alleged evidence does not prove that your first statement was a lie.
Therefore I will not retract my statement that you are a liar.
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Al Arf salam
Are you surprised? that i am not a native arab speeker, but does that mean that i can not understand Quran correctly even if i make a positive/hard endeavor?
In fact that puts me at an advantage , because i have no preconcieved/corrupted bagagge to bog/lock me down.
I agree with you that english does not have an exact equal to many words of arabic, but then this holds good for any language when translated to another.
As for HSN , I think you are confusing it with H seen N, but brother that is a different root from H suaad N, what we are talking about here. And i think i have posted the closest possible meanings of these roots HSuadN and Musafiha after a through research, and by no means i claim that i know 100% truth, Only God knows the truth, but I find this to be correct to the best of my knowledge and can only claim that it definitly is far better than your understanding.
I have posted other examples from Quran but if you still have problems in understanding, i can post more if you want me to , but first, try and understand what i have posted with reason and logic along with examples from Quran itself after a delibrate study, and no harm done if you admit your mistake.
siki