Could an Atheist be a believer.
-
Atheists and theists are equally bad. The atheist only thinks they are not serving an object.
The only real attitude is living in the spirit of a higher power but not make what is "God" into an object so one is neither theist nor atheist.
JavaLatte is right that atheists are not really atheist because god is their ego unless they are atheist who are deeply spiritual anyway and have faith in good.
They are all theists and only the one who is erasing his or her ego and does not take an item to worship, including the Allah/"God" delusion, is truly "atheist". Believe in good and you are not theist. Theism is bad because it has a fallible god attributed to them.
Heck even material and your possessions is your god.
It all comes down to the spiritual soul "charge" of good vs. evil, and that is by what you will be measured when the Day comes. Hardcore Pagan style "worship" will be to no avail because there is nothing which can be bribed.
The best soul in "God"/Allah is the one who was good in behavior and deed and walked in its spirit. They submitted with their mind and so they separated their spirit from the flesh and materials of this illusive world which is merely an advanced network of energy in disguise of something concrete.
Be of one with God
-
Atheists and theists are equally bad. The atheist only thinks they are not serving an object.
That by definition is Egotism, a strange theism of the Self or "I" and not really atheism in the true sense, it can be understood as a form of apotheosis.
It's the habit of valuing everything only in reference to one's personal interest; selfishness, plus the view that morality ultimately rests on self-interest. The elevation or exaltation of a person to the rank of a god except they elevate themselves as "god-like" or in extreme cases a "god" not unlike the Pharaoh of Moses. It's also common to see apotheosis in Christianity but I believe that's a discussion for another day but should be of note that Athanasius of Alexandria, a staunch defender of the Christian trinity said""For He was made man that we might be made God."[, and the Mormons believe they will become gods through the doctrine of Exaltation which is explained in this couplet "As man now is, God once was; As God now is, man may be". Still that's a discussion for another day.
The doctrine or belief that there is no God or disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings is atheism in a nutshell but the "atheists' I know worship themselves through logic and science which are both made by men for men, so we understand the laws of nature this creation of Allah Almighty adheres to. They believe that existence of God defies logic and science; If something cannot be explained by science or logic to them, it is shot down and critiqued very, very harshly. This is nothing short of egoism and shirk. I dare say atheism as a belief is an illusion much like an optical illusion. However I could be wrong but that is my understanding at the moment so far.
Maybe they reject to believe in the existence of the Creator, but looks like they have object of worship. In my opinion, it could be they worship themselves a.k.a. their own desires.
@JavaLatte- Most certainly, I believe I am certain of this, why else would they get upset at mention of God? Because they love the Creation better than Creator, want to maintain the illusion of superiority and know very well that their "Golden Calf" (Their beliefs) will melt before Truth; They are proud and don't want to humble themselves before Allah, much like Iblis.
-
The doctrine or belief that there is no God or disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings is atheism in a nutshell but the "atheists' I know worship themselves through logic and science which are both made by men for men, so we understand the laws of nature this creation of Allah Almighty adheres to. They believe that existence of God defies logic and science; If something cannot be explained by science or logic to them, it is shot down and critiqued very, very harshly.
True and unfortunately, everything cannot be explained by God. I voted atheists are not believers. I met multiple of them in school which forces me to say that those who have God in their heart can be loving and sympathetic. And those who don't they are neither loving nor sympathetic. In my PE class back in high school I befriended a girl who came from atheist household. Her parents taught her to not believe in any God. I had no problem with that. I continued being her friend. Then one day, on our way back from gym, three girls caught me to bully for no reason. I needed help. That atheist girl was with me. Funny that as soon as I was caught, she pretended to not know me and just left me there despite the fact that she saw me being heavily trapped. I had hindu, jewish and of course christian friends. Every time I was in some kind of problem they stood up for me. But this is not all. Majority of the atheist friends turned out to be highly selfish even in their view. Its always about their own pleasure. They can see you die. Oh wait, this is what they did to a tiny kid in China also.
-
True and unfortunately, everything cannot be explained by God. I voted atheists are not believers. I met multiple of them in school which forces me to say that those who have God in their heart can be loving and sympathetic. And those who don't they are neither loving nor sympathetic. In my PE class back in high school I befriended a girl who came from atheist household. Her parents taught her to not believe in any God. I had no problem with that. I continued being her friend. Then one day, on our way back from gym, three girls caught me to bully for no reason. I needed help. Its always about their own pleasure. They can see you die. Oh wait, this is what they did to a tiny kid in China also.
Many sympathies for your trouble, atheists can be hypocritical and although some may be good, as an ex-atheist, I say this Atheists are probably the most self-righteous, self-centered and most prideful group of beings the human race has to offer as cruel as that sounds. The two parts I highlighted remind me of 4620 "And on the Day that the Unbelievers will be placed before the Fire, (It will be said to them) "Ye received your good things in the life of the world, and ye took your pleasure out of them but today shall ye be recompensed with a Penalty of humiliation for that ye were arrogant on earth without just cause, and that ye (ever) transgressed." ( Yusuf Ali translation), 210 "In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves)." (Yusuf Ali translation) and 552 "Those in whose hearts is a disease - thou seest how eagerly they run about amongst them, saying "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." Ah! perhaps Allah will give (thee) victory, or a decision according to His will. Then will they repent of the thoughts which they secretly harboured in their hearts." (Yusuf Ali, once again)
What happened to the kid in China? ( I didn't hear about it.
-
Salamun alaikum.
Could an atheist be a believer, even though he may declare he doesn't believe in God?
Believer? No ? because the question already clarifies he does not believe.
Mumin? Unlikely, but possible; because Mumin does not mean one who believes. It means one who has faith. There is a subtle difference.
The act of believing is merely accepting a hypothesis as true. People believe in ghosts, aliens and all sorts of strange and unproven things. Merely such believe in an entity named ?God? or ?Allah? does not make someone a Mumin. There are numerous verse in Qur?an which indicate that. Example 2100, 4914 etc.
The act of having faith is accepting a relationship as a binding obligation. When it is said that the servant is faithful to his master ? it does not only mean the servants believes his master to be so, rather it means he accepts the master-slave relationship as a binding obligation. In Arabic, we read that Muhammad (pbuh) used to be called ?al-amin?. That is not because he believed something, rather because once he was entrusted with something, he would take that relationship as a binding obligation.
Believing is a binary variable - one either believes or he does not; but Faith is a matter of degree. (See ref 9124).Is it possible to have faith without believing? I think possible. Imagine a servant who is carrying out his master?s order even after his master?s death. He knows and believes that he is no longer a servant as his master is dead, BUT he still upholds faith in his master-slave relationship through his actions.
We have faith in Allah when we accept acting based on our God-gifted sense of right and wrong as a binding obligation on us. We know our life is a gift and we have faith in the ?One who gave us this gift? by acting responsibly. It is unlikely, but possible that an atheist may accept acting based on his/her inherent sense of right and wrong as a binding obligation.
Is there any Quranic example of someone being mumin without believing? Let?s take 2249. Among the forces of Talut, those who believed/assumed that they would meet their master said certain things. It can be logically inferred that in that group there were others who did not really believe or assume that they would meet their master. But arguably they were among the faithful based on their act of fighting in the path of Allah. But clearly those who did believe in meeting Allah were on a stronger footing of faith.
This is my humble opinion.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
True and unfortunately, everything cannot be explained by God.
Oops, I made a big mistake in my first line. I wanted to say everything cannot be explained by science. Very sorry about it.
Atheists are probably the most self-righteous, self-centered and most prideful group of beings the human race has to offer as cruel as that sounds.
Do you come from atheist family? Becoming atheist to get out of a religion would be a little different. Such a person still is far more caring. The worse I see are those who were brought up in atheist household. Staying with them is frustrating. Since they hardly know much about religions, they interpret simple holidays to be religious also. Most often they are fully disillusioned airheads. For instance, some atheist kids in my high school told me they didnt celebrate thanksgiving because it was a religious holiday rotfl Come on, schools always make a big deal out of thanksgiving. American kids are taught from first grade what this is all about. Strange that it didnt get into their heads!
What happened to the kid in China? ( I didn't hear about it.
Its graphic for which you will have to log onto youtube to watch how two vehicles ran over her and how no one came in her rescue for minutes. http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=M01bcE4fuQA
This is from her wikiWang, who was two years old, wandered away from her home in Foshan while her mother was quickly collecting laundry during a thunderstorm. She walked into a narrow, busy market street. Closed-circuit television cameras captured the child wandering into the street. In only a few moments of her appearance on the screen, Wang is struck by a white van, knocked to the ground and goes under the van's front wheels. The van driver pauses, but does not get out. After a moment, he pulls forward slowly, at which time his rear wheel drives over Wang. The driver moves on. Subsequently, at least 18 people walk past her, and fail to assist her, some pausing to stare before moving on. In that time, another large truck runs over Wang's legs with both front and back tires. She is eventually helped by a female rubbish scavenger, Chen Xianmei
This is another incident
In Ningbo of Zhejiang Province a woman was hit by a three wheeled vehicle, after which she was run over 4 times in succession by 4 different cars. All of the drivers drove away; failing to care whether she was alive or dead. The five drivers responsible have all been brought in.
That night at around 735 as a person riding a bicycle was crossing the road from west to east a three wheeled motorbike drove at speed from the south heading north. The front left of the 3 wheeled motorbike hit the front wheel of the bicycle hurtling the cyclist across the ground. Afterwords the 3 wheeled motorbike continued to speed north; escaping from the scene.
Around a minute later a car coming from the fast lane also heading north clearly bounces up a bit as it drives over the victim?s body. Ultimately the car moved into the slow lane and stopped. A man and a woman got out of the car. At the same time a pick up truck came out of the company?s entrance, turned right and stopped in the non-vehicle lane. The man and the woman walked to the side of the pick-up, and after saying a few words with the driver took out a mobile. A short while later the pick-up left the scene with the man and woman also leaving immediately afterwards.
In the ten or so minutes after 3 vehicles drove over the victim?s body. The 3rd vehicle, a truck like vehicle really rolled the victim?s body even further away. The place the woman was first hit was just over 20 metres from the final spot.
From this part of the video we can still clearly see that from when the incident happened to when the traffic police arrived at the scene over 40 cars, motorbikes and electric bikes didn?t stop and call the police as they passed but chose to drive around the victim?s body.
According to an explanation from the civil police involved, the person on the bicycle was a woman almost 22-years-old called Han. After the accident, due to being run over many times, there was no way to save her and she was pronounced dead not long after entering hospital.
http//www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/female-bicylist-hit-by-vehicle-run-over-repeatedly-in-ningbo.htmlAs per my textbook from world religion class, China is the home of atheists. Although some maybe worshiping deities I have been told by Chinese people that majority of them practice nothing and believe in no God. Some go to temple only when they get into fateful event (I applaud them for their honesty).
Interestingly, China is a police state. If you are a chinese you can be searched or arrested without any court order. Apparently, it looks like the atheist government doesn't trust its atheist people. That's why I have always thought that a country full of Godless people is dangerous.
Couple of years ago, my car's radiator was giving up in the middle of the road. I stopped it near a residential area. Knocked the first house and a Chinese man got out. I asked him if he could get me a bit of water for the radiator. He was like no sorry and then just closed it on my face. His english said he was living in US for a long time. Hence he understood what I explained to him. I then went to another house and its Mexican owner didnt only give me water, but also welcomed me inside.
-
Harmony upon you,
Mumin? Unlikely, but possible; because Mumin does not mean one who believes. It means one who has faith. There is a subtle difference.
Mumin is Arabic of saying "one who is iman" "Thereof iman one". What is iman? "be thereof one", so muminin means "one who is thereof (one)". I call it united.
They do whatsoever not refer to "belief", but refer to unity in something that is referred to as "thereof".
You cannot believe in something that is definitely true, which there is no doubt about. The only alternative is being deluded into someone rejecting "God" for some reason or into finding something other than what is true about "God" and what the phenomenon of "God" is.
In Arabic, we read that Muhammad (pbuh) used to be called ?al-amin?
If 'Muhammad' says he is "al-amin" he means that he is the unity himself, like a beacon.
The whole concept that "God" is expecting is not any kind of believing, but people who walk in the spirit of "God". This because "God" is not a concrete object somewhere, but very abstractly existing everywhere being existence itself.
But there is nothing such as "belief" in that regard, the only alternative is lacking knowledge or insight, and being confused about something obvious. Think and believe are of similar meaning, and they are not used in conjunction here. But "God" you do not "believe" but you "join in", "jump onto the train".
Be of one in "God"
-
That's why I have always thought that a country full of Godless people is dangerous.
Bold I agree.
I suppose that's one of the reasons why I still like my country. I have to admit that it is quite convenient to live among hospitable people who still have respect for God.
Indonesian government recognizes six official religions Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism (Khonghucu).
Though I don't like the sectarian influences which spread by Islamic preachers (grrr.. >(), but our government does not uphold sharia laws, praise be to Allah.
Salm.
-
Harmony be upon you JavaLatte,
I have to admit that it is quite convenient to live among hospitable people who still have respect for God.
Yes. That is wonderful and as long as they are hospitable and kind then they have not lost all ties to "God".
but our government does not uphold sharia laws,
Yes. It is a disaster when a country upholds invented sharia laws, particularly those from the so-called 'hadith of Muhammad'.
Indonesian government recognizes six official religions Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism (Khonghucu).
But best would be if everyone just left their sect and believed in good.
Be of one in "God"
-
An Atheist is upon the Purest Foundation!
An atheist is upon the best of the platforms and on the strongest foundation to become the finest of all the believers. His foundation and the platform is La Ilaaha, There are no such of these material gods. Then the second part Illa Allah, But Allah is to be taught to them by Allah Himself, for they are pure from shirk when they believe, "There are no such of these material gods."
-
An atheist is upon the best of the platforms and on the strongest foundation to become the finest of all the believers.
I think the above statement is not supported by the Qur'an at all.
His foundation and the platform is La Ilaaha,
What they say and what they show may not be aligned.
In my opinion, the atheists are refusing to acknowledge their Master, and if their actions show that they follow their desires, then does it can be "strong foundation to become the finest of all believers"?
-
I think the above statement is not supported by the Qur'an at all.
What they say and what they show may not be aligned.
In my opinion, the atheists are refusing to acknowledge their Master, and if their actions show that they follow their desires, then does it can be "strong foundation to become the finest of all believers"?
It is not to dispute your opinion; but a opinion of mine.
There are no gods is the fulcrum of Quran. The atheists are of this notion. The second point of final elevation is to be taught by the Only God. The atheist are in the best platform to understand this point and they are the ones to convert to the belief system of Allah. Like Ibrahim, they discount every material as not God from heavens up down to earth. Today's idol worshipers are the direct descendants of the people of Ibrahim in this truest sense that they worship all nature like the sun, the moon, the stars, and they imagine and idolise each character of God for worshiping. Like how Allah taught unto Ibrahim the belief system, all by Himself, it is only a matter of time, Allah will teach the people of Ibrahim also as they keep denouncing and discounting their own idols transforming them into pure atheists i.e., as they purify them from all their own invented shirks against Allah.
-
I found drfazl's opinion to be healthy. If that atheist comes to faith outside sectarian bias then it is the purest of faithlings. It is not the matter of recognizing a Pagan objectified "God" anyways. It is a matter of blending in with the 'Foundation' (rabb in Arabic), the universe or the "ether" (since the fleshly nature of this universe is an illusion). We can say we talk about energy which the universe is made of and that causes this illusion when the energy forms apparently concrete matter, which they are not but an illusion and the energy keeps various matter together.
So what is Allah here? The energy! Even your body is of energy and lots of it which binds together and creates its physical illusion, but would the energy lose its profile then the body would disintegrate. Anyone aware of science and chemistry know that our lifeform is carbon-based and that can be broken down to an atom, and what is an atom? A variation of energy depending on substance to form the molecule (see periodic table).
Mankind has even managed to destabilize and split a single atom, and what happens? An 'energy' discharge! But the energy does not vanish.
The universe is filled with a lot of energy that is disguised to appear solid. The perfect illusion. There is no solid reality, but only energy that forms items that appear concrete and that your pile of energy (body) cannot go through (carbon-based) except o2 (oxygen) and some other variations of energy that are gasses.
h2o is a nice molecule, liquid (and thus possible to penetrate), but if temperature is low enough it takes a more solid form. But the interesting is that without the assembly of two hydrogen and one oxygen atom makes the liquid form called water in the same temperature where oxygen or hydrogen would be gasses.
But if you heat metals they become liquid and no longer solid and the substance can be separated in any direction. And atoms can be split, and what happens? Energy discharge!
And from where are the ores that metal is made? Rock!
So what do you think the universe is made of? Energy!
As soon as one makes Allah an object, concrete, then they also accept the fleshly nature of this world. But the truth is on the spiritual level and not in the flesh.
Drfazl is not Allah alone himself, but Allah's spirit can be in man and drfazl is (hopefully) in Allah.
Harmony
-
Dear Sister Reel and others
I find it deeply disturbing that many of us are engaging in generalization of ethical/moral standards based on racial attributes. This is wrong from many angels including the teaching of Qur'an (e.g. 4912).
Let's refrain from any sweeping remark about a particular race (e.g. the Chinese, the Germans etc.) which we would not make in front of a person of that race. And we should certainly not form or promote such generalized idea based on our personal interaction with a limited number of people from another race.
Even when we are discussing the issues with certain religions/ideology, let's always be mindful that the behavior of the majority of the follower of a religion/ideology usually do not speak of the core teachings of the religion/ideology.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Let's refrain from any sweeping remark about a particular race (e.g. the Chinese, the Germans etc.) which we would not make in front of a person of that race. And we should certainly not form or promote such generalized idea based on our personal interaction with a limited number of people from another race.
It isn't about race, but religions and atheism. We are weighing how the two can affect the mindset of an entire country. There are people out there who assert that an atheist society is always peaceful and humane. They see religions as the root of all evil. The country talked about here is mere an example of how mass atheism isn't all that great.
-
4915 Believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, then they became without doubt, and they strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones
82 The believers are those whom, when God is mentioned, their hearts reverence; and when His revelations are recited to them, it increases their faith; and they put their trust in their Lord.
No way an atheist can be a believer according to the Quran.
Both the verses , speak of "Muimin's" as the ones who believe in "Allah" .What if there is an atheist who rejects God , but acknowledges intelligent design , and ultimate consciousness.Can't Allah translate to "The ultimate consciousness?"