Could an Atheist be a believer.
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367 Abraham was neither a "Jew" nor a "Christian", but was one who turned away from all that is false, having surrendered himself unto God; and he was not of those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Him.
I think what this verse is saying is that believing in the truth and doing the right thing constitutes belief in God.
When people ask me what my religious views are, I tell them I'm "sort of an atheist."
"sort of an atheist." so there is a glimmer of hope
So they go, you don't believe in anything? I do. I believe in always doing the right thing.
So what is that force which urges you to choose good over bad and once you search that part you may find that someone has caused you to inherently incline towards good choices? As for the rest of my post above it rhymes with what you say, but from "a sort of non-atheist point of view"
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Nope. There's very little hope. I've been wrong so many times in the past that I'm very open to the possibilty that I'm wrong. But If I'm completely honest I think I'm definitely on the right track, and I'm definitely moving forward. And going back to the traditional belief in god seems like a step back to me, because my understanding right now makes much more sense to me.
There is no force that urges me to choose good over bad. As we talked in the other thread, our inner conscience can be ignored, or manipulated. We can think we're doing good when we're not.
There are people who pray 5 times a day and just pray for everything to be good and then just sit on their soft behinds and don't do anything. They think that's the proper thing to do, because they believe that God controls everything, and prayer is the key to changing our fate. So just pray and hope god fixes everything. They don't go out and do anything. I attempted to write a short short story dealing with that but I utterly failed. Maybe I'll give it another try.
There are people who think it's a dog eat dog world and it's every man for himself. So you SHOULD do what benefits you. They feel alright with the idea of cheating their way through life because that's what they've programmed themselves to believe.And then obviously there is our emotions. They are too, too hard to ignore. And usually they overpower people. Pushing them into making the wrong choices again and again. So even if they feel bad about doing something, they keep on doing it.
For example...
Saying I'm a bit of a slacker is a bit of an understatement. I feel bad when I don't do my work and that effects my grades, but it's too hard to do boring things like studying, so I keep on slacking and feeling bad about it later. A never ending cycle.So, those good instincts aren't nearly enough to guide us.
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Nope. There's very little hope. I've been wrong so many times in the past that I'm very open to the possibilty that I'm wrong. But If I'm completely honest I think I'm definitely on the right track, and I'm definitely moving forward. And going back to the traditional belief in god seems like a step back to me, because my understanding right now makes much more sense to me.
Threre is always hope, I am sure you have a lot more experience in life and to say I think I'm definitely on the right track.....that right now makes much more sense to me but what about tomorrow? Eventually it's the process of going through life's cycle that will determine what was the right track.
There is no force that urges me to choose good over bad. As we talked in the other thread, our inner conscience can be ignored, or manipulated. We can think we're doing good when we're not.
The voice of conscience can be suppressed but never defeated; it always comes back to haunt you; sometime quite obviously and at other times in the form of psychological problems.
And then obviously there is our emotions. They are too, too hard to ignore. And usually they overpower people. Pushing them into making the wrong choices again and again. So even if they feel bad about doing something, they keep on doing it.
Acknowledging that it was hard to ignore one's emotions, shows the inner reminder and a weak human admitting guilt and justifying the reasons to make a wrong choice. Feeling bad about something yet keeping on doing it says what hmm ...defying voice of reason ..what is naturally wrong ie your conscience?
peace -
Threre is always hope, I am sure you have a lot more experience in life and to say I think I'm definitely on the right track.....that right now makes much more sense to me but what about tomorrow? Eventually it's the process of going through life's cycle that will determine what was the right track.
Yes, as I said, I've been wrong before and maybe I will be proved wrong again. But everything I believe is backed by real evidence. I might be wrong, but I'll be honest and say that at the moment I don't think I am. But I always think that even if I'm wrong.
The voice of conscience can be suppressed but never defeated; it always comes back to haunt you; sometime quite obviously and at other times in the form of psychological problems.
I don't know. I know I've done wrong things without even thinking that there was something wrong with my actions.
The problem with what you're saying is that although we are programmed to empathize with others and live in harmony with other human beings, we are not born with the knowledge on how best to do it. A lot of times we end up hurting people without even knowing we are doing it, or without caring if we are. Some times our actions have indirect side effects.Acknowledging that it was hard to ignore one's emotions, shows the inner reminder and a weak human admitting guilt and justifying the reasons to make a wrong choice. Feeling bad about something yet keeping on doing it says what think ...defying voice of reason ..what is naturally wrong ie your conscience?
I'm sorry but I don't think I understood that properly, but if it means what I think it does, then I agree with sort of. If you keep feeling bad, you know that you are doing something wrong or harmful, but you cannot stop. That happens a lot with people, that is why having this inner conscience isn't enough. You need something more to push you to do the right thing.
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Peace Lobster, all,
Just wanted to share some points
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This life is not black and white; it is very colorful. You can always find at least a good aspect in every bad thing, and also atleast a bad aspect in every good thing.
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Right and wrong are concepts that wouldn't exist without Human species. Right/wrong or good/bad in nature or in the animal world have no value.
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Human species didn't accpet its status in the animal world, and decided as a whole to take its destiny in hand, not just being subjected to natural phenomenons, but to decide and influence our environment => Free will.
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Each of our decisions during our lifetime is not black or white only, there is a spectrum of colors. Also, not only one decision would make us in "hell" or in "paradise", but it is the sum of our actions, it is like an average, and we have plenty of time to go this side or the other. At the end, I think it is a matter of how far are we from the truth.
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As for your atheist friend, maybe she is rejecting the religious figure of god as depicted in the mainstream religions, but she might agree about the existance of a supreme "watchmaker".
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Some times our actions have indirect side effects.I'm sorry but I don't think I understood that properly, but if it means what I think it does, then I agree with sort of. .
To understand how sometime our actions indirectly hurt others is part of learning process in a civilization, as long as we learn from our mistakes there is a room for improvement.
If you keep feeling bad, you know that you are doing something wrong or harmful, but you cannot stop. That happens a lot with people, that is why having this inner conscience isn't enough.
May be you missed what I said earlier
7174 Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."There are some people who are put off religion because they see s. c. religious people making so much mischief in the world, in the name of God, and getting away with it. This turns many people to the belief that there is no God as there seems to be no checks and balances.
However some people are inherently good and truthful, GOD IS THEIR CONSCIENCE AND THEY WOULD NOT GO AGAINST THEIR CONSCIENCE, whereas others pretend to be believers, but do all they can to fool others. They are not not aware of their conscience and are deaf and blind. Nothing can convince them of what is a real good deed as they rebel against their own self.
However those who possess a reminding conscience AND believe that they are answerable to God, feeling they are constantly watched by the Almighty these are the ones who are careful of their testimony to God.Satan is not a believer as he has seen God after which there is no belief but rather knowledge. He is simply rebellious, but for the rest of us, who never had direct conversation with God it all depends on our beliefs whether we believe in justice and accountability for our deeds to our creator. If we do we believe in God but do not believe in accountability there is no active conscience to haunt you or remind you.
A believer reflects on God's creation and has expectations from afterlife, a non believer lacks this concepts so his life has limited meaning 7185
Did they not look at the dominion of heavens and Earth, and all that God has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which narrations after this one will they believe?You need something more to push you to do the right thing
So you do agree we need something more like a proper system handshake
Peace Lobster, all,
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Human species didn't accpet its status in the animal world, and decided as a whole to take its destiny in hand, not just being subjected to natural phenomenons, but to decide and influence our environment => Free will.
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Each of our decisions during our lifetime is not black or white only, there is a spectrum of colors. Also, not only one decision would make us in "hell" or in "paradise", but it is the sum of our actions, it is like an average, and we have plenty of time to go this side or the other. At the end, I think it is a matter of how far are we from the truth.
handshake
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Maybe you say you are an atheist because you reject the god described by christians or any big religious institution, because it does not make sense
or any traditional view of god, like making god something that will get angry, that need attention, all that kind of bullshit.The true God, is fair in all affairs. Nobody knows God enough to say "i truely disbelieve". What you disbelieve in, is the current view people have of God.
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Maybe you say you are an atheist because you reject the god described by christians or any big religious institution, because it does not make sense
or any traditional view of god, like making god something that will get angry, that need attention, all that kind of bullshit.The true God, is fair in all affairs. Nobody knows God enough to say "i truely disbelieve". What you disbelieve in, is the current view people have of God.
Maybe.
What I'm trying to do is understand God working backwards. If believing in God makes us good, then those who are good must believe in god.
So we must learn from those who live a happy, righteous life, no matter what their beliefs are supposed to be. -
Maybe.
What I'm trying to do is understand God working backwards. If believing in God makes us good, then those who are good must believe in god.
Nope, that's a logical fallacy. All bears are mammals does not all mammals are bears. Just because believing in God makes you good doesn't mean there aren't other factors affecting behaviour.
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Nope, that's a logical fallacy. All bears are mammals does not all mammals are bears. Just because believing in God makes you good doesn't mean there aren't other factors affecting behaviour.
True, but you can tell when a person's actions are genuine or when they are forced or fake.
It's a little more complicated than just copying other peoples' actions.
Let me change that to people who do good for the sake of it. Is that good enough or am I overlooking something again? -
I always thought an atheist was one who does not beleive in God. When you say "Believe", what are you talking about, because if it is God, then that individual is not an Atheist.
The question is, what is god?
The problem here is, what if the "believers" have the wrong idea of god, and if someone who calls themselves an "atheist" could actually be right about god. -
I think what is necessary is believing in an entity which not only has power over the universe, but also behind that power, possesses conscious direction.
So it's only enough just to believe in a 'great life force' or 'Tao' - you must believe this life force or Tao has conscious purpose and direction. Because otherwise you don't believe in any higher purpose. And I think this belief in higher purpose is the primary component of faith in God.
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I always thought an atheist was one who does not beleive in God. When you say "Believe", what are you talking about, because if it is God, then that individual is not an Atheist.
Salaam,
Israeli spokes person says Israel and USA are not signatories to ICC and Israel has committed no more war crimes than the US and the UK did in Iraq and Afghanistan and he warned that, if any one tried to bring Israel before the ICC through UN, that would be the end of international law. Now, for those who do not believe in God or accountability, that is the end of it.
As for those who believe they know justice will be done by the almighty in this world or in the hereafter.324. But how (will they fare) when we gather them together against a day about which there is no doubt, and each soul will be paid out just what it has earned, without (favour or) injustice?
peace -
I agree, but I'm pretty sure that the ICC can try people for crimes not committed in a signatory country. America is an exception because it made separate deals with the UN bodies setting up the court. However Israel did not make any such deals, so it's generals should be chased by the ICC. Faith in God complements worldly justice, it does not invalidate it.
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I agree, but I'm pretty sure that the ICC can try people for crimes not committed in a signatory country. America is an exception because it made separate deals with the UN bodies setting up the court. However Israel did not make any such deals, so it's generals should be chased by the ICC. Faith in God complements worldly justice, it does not invalidate it.
Salaam
http//www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=82310§ionid=351020202
ICC overlooks Israel's war crimes allegation
Wed, 14 Jan 2009 193438 GMTIsrael is accused of using white phosphorus against Gazans. The US intelligence has classified WP as a "chemical weapon."
The International Criminal Court prosecutor says it lacks jurisdiction to investigate possible Israeli war crimes committed in Gaza.The ICC prosecutor said in a statement Wednesday that the "court's jurisdiction is limited to war crimes, crimes against humanity and the crime of genocide committed on the territory of, or by a national of, a state party while Israel is not a member state. ....
The ICC prosecutor said in a statement Wednesday that the "court's ... Israel and the United States are not among the 108 signatories of the Rome Statute creating the Hague-based court in 2000 to investigate and prosecute war crimes.
See below
*On 28 August 2002, the Secretary-General, in his capacity as treaty repository, received from the government of Israel the following communication
"...n connection with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court adopted on 17 July 1998, Israel does not intend to become a party to the treaty. Accordingly, Israel has no legal obligations arising from its signature on 31 December 2000. Israel requests that its intention not to become a party, as expressed in this letter, be reflected in the depositary's status lists relating to this treaty."
**On 6 May 2002, the Secretary-General, in his capacity as treaty repository, received from the government of the United States America the following communication
"...n connection with the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court adopted on July 17, 1998, the United States does not intend to become a party to the treaty. Accordingly, the United States has no legal obligations arising from its signature on December 31, 2000. The United States requests that its intention not to become a party, as expressed in this letter, be reflected in the depositary's status lists relating to this treaty -
nope
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Hi,
Could we say an atheist is really a believer, if his actions are in accordance with the attributes of God?
confused
Thanks.
A reflection on Muslim and Mumin, Islam and Iman; Titles of humane behaviour
http//deenresearchusa-com.web26.winsvr.net/Blogs/tabid/73/EntryId/17/A-reflection-on-Muslim-and-Mumin-Islam-and-Iman-Titles-of-humane-behaviour.aspxThe philosophical and humanitarian implication of Kufr
http//deenresearchusa-com.web26.winsvr.net/Blogs/tabid/73/EntryId/24/The-philosophical-and-humanitarian-implication-of-Kufr.aspx -
An atheist is half a believer. A believer says La ilaha ilallah, no god but God. An atheist has the first part okay, it's just the second part that causes them trouble.
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Somehow I think that the atheists are not the people who don't have the object of worship.
Maybe they reject to believe in the existence of the Creator, but looks like they have object of worship. In my opinion, it could be they worship themselves a.k.a. their own desires.
Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Will you then be a wakil over him?
Salm.