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  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. "Quran Only" vs "Quran + Worship Practices"

"Quran Only" vs "Quran + Worship Practices"

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    almarh0m
    wrote on last edited by
    #61

    Peace David_K

    I think the concensus on the meaning of "quran" is reading and Al-Qur'an as "The Great reading" . Since we all know that sciences of whatever disciplines are written in books , it is not wrong to say we follow Qur'an only or adhering to Islam accoding to what The Great Reading prescribed . One of the verses believed to be the first of the revelation was Iqra which means "read" or "recite" , so it is clear that The God told or recommend to all mankind , believers or otherwise to read or study or observe . So the claim of the Qur'an that , it explains everything is valid .

    Peace

    almarhom

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      Q_student
      wrote on last edited by
      #62

      Peace David_K

      I think the concensus on the meaning of "quran" is reading and Al-Qur'an as "The Great reading" . Since we all know that sciences of whatever disciplines are written in books , it is not wrong to say we follow Qur'an only or adhering to Islam accoding to what The Great Reading prescribed . One of the verses believed to be the first of the revelation was Iqra which means "read" or "recite" , so it is clear that The God told or recommend to all mankind , believers or otherwise to read or study or observe . So the claim of the Qur'an that , it explains everything is valid .

      Peace

      almarhom

      Salaam brother
      If "Iqra' bismikallazi khalaq" is the first ,then why placed in the middle of the Quran. It should be the first one.
      Regards

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        almarh0m
        wrote on last edited by
        #63

        Peace Q_s

        Perhaps the same reason why 2945 and 2121 were placed where they are in the Qur'an ? Anyway , why is chronology of revelation so important when what we need is the substance of the message ?

        Cheers

        almarh0m

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          Q_student
          wrote on last edited by
          #64

          Peace Q_s

          Perhaps the same reason why 2945 and 2121 where placed where they are in the Qur'an ? Anyway , why is chronology of revelation so important when what we need is the substance of the message ?

          Cheers

          almarh0m

          Salaam
          Don't you the Allah revealed must be full of wisdom. We should not change not that order . If you want I have no objection.
          Regards

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            Samia
            wrote on last edited by
            #65

            You want to say that the order which is present in the Quran right now is divine. If so then how will you explain 53 where Deen is completed. What is validity of all verses after it till end of the Quran. Are they not the part of the "Deen" or Islam ?

            If "Iqra' bismikallazi khalaq" is the first ,then why placed in the middle of the Quran. It should be the first one.

            You seem to be against both the existing order of revalation and the traditional claim regarding it..
            I am eager to know your opinion.

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              Q_student
              wrote on last edited by
              #66

              You seem to be against both the existing order of revalation and the traditional claim regarding it..
              I am eager to know your opinion.

              Salaam Samia
              This is what I am searching for. Can help me out in this manner?
              Regards

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                Samia
                wrote on last edited by
                #67

                Salaam Samia
                This is what I am searching for. Can help me out in this manner?
                Regards

                • My understanding depends on what God meant by "today" in verse 53 Was it the day that verse was rvealed, or when the qur'aan was descended (surat 97).
                • Also, look at the first verse of surat 5 "Fulfil the obligations". That's the "deen". Just as alfatiha is the first chapter, very logically, as it represents an "abstract" of the whole book.

                Or, maybe you, or someone else, have a better explanation.

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                  truthseeker11
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #68

                  Peace David,

                  Great answears. I totally agree. "The Quran only" is limiting the system to only the Quran. When for example muslims found in the Quran a verse which is about big bang, they had to compare it to the scientific findings = External. Off course information about the big bang was in the quran over 1000 years before modern science and the west found that big bang is a fact. However, to see that the scientific in quran was a fact they compared it to modern scientific findings. So Quran can't therefore be limited to itself only.

                  One short period of my life, i almost only read the quran and stopped reading other books because i thought the Quran was sufficient for Development. But that was wrong because it was other sources that lead me to the Quran in the first place. yes, the Quran explains itself, and yes the Spiritual/religious laws we should follow are only the laws in the Quran. So the quran is the only book for spiritual/religious laws. BUT, we can gather knowledge from others sources like science, philosophy, psychology, nature etc. I actually think that if we know more about different subjects, we will understand more from the Quranic verses. For example someone that has knowledge about science will understand the scientific verses in the Quran. Or someone who has knowledge about philosophy will understand the philosophical verses in the Quran. And someone with lots of life experience and which has studied psychology will understand the verses in the Quran which talks about psychology and human nature. Someone who has knowledge when it comes to laws of nature will understand the natural/universal laws of the Quran. Someone who has knowledge about Politics or law will understand the verses in the Quran which deals about matters of law and human rights. And someone who is an archeologists will be able to compare his archeological findings with verses in the Quran that talks about his findings.

                  Conclusion

                  In my opinion, it is of total necessity to reflect upon nature, philosophy and science etc. and compare it to the Quranic verses, so that the verses that deals with these topics will become clear. Sitting and reading Quran alone 24/7 won't change the world. We have to read the Quran, put its principles and laws in practice, Compare it to the Universal laws and the laws in nature, and compare it to scientific and archeological findings.

                  bravo bravo bravo

                  Peace and The God bless.

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                    unknownuser
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #69

                    Peace Samia,

                    • My understanding depends on what God meant by "today" in verse 53 Was it the day that verse was rvealed, or when the qur'aan was descended (surat 97).
                    • Also, look at the first verse of surat 5 "Fulfil the obligations". That's the "deen". Just as alfatiha is the first chapter, very logically, as it represents an "abstract" of the whole book.

                    Or, maybe you, or someone else, have a better explanation.

                    The same today the reader accepts. God is not time bound, past present future today.

                    4163

                    (&#65279

                    Verily, We have sent the revelation to you as We sent the revelation to Noah and the Prophets after him; We sent the revelation to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and Al-Asb?t [the grandchildren/the tribes), Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon; and to David We gave the Zab?r.

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                      drfazl
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #70

                      This is the order of the Revelation of Quran

                      First ayat that was sent down is Aoozu Billahi Minash Shaitanirrajim. Not Iqra' Bismi Rabbikallazi Khalaq. This fits in perfect to the Reasoning! Next ayat is Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim. This is beautiful following of the previous verse. And next is the opening up for us of the heavens and the earth with the third verse Alhamdu Lillahi Rabbil Aalameen. And so on it continues to beautifully explain the chronology of Revelation and compilation of Quran in the same order.

                      Peace.

                      .

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                        Bahman
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #71

                        This is the order of the Revelation of Quran

                        First ayat that was sent down is Aoozu Billahi Minash Shaitanirrajim. Not Iqra' Bismi Rabbikallazi Khalaq. This fits in perfect to the Reasoning! Next ayat is Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim. This is beautiful following of the previous verse. And next is the opening up for us of the heavens and the earth with the third verse Alhamdu Lillahi Rabbil Aalameen. And so on it continues to beautifully explain the chronology of Revelation and compilation of Quran in the same order.

                        Peace..

                        Peace
                        Do you agree with this list

                        Chronological Order Surah Name Number of Verses Location of Revelation Traditional Order
                        1 Al-Alaq 19 Mecca 96
                        2 Al-Qalam 52 Mecca 68
                        3 Al-Muzzammil 20 Mecca 73
                        4 Al-Muddathir 56 Mecca 74
                        5 Al-Fatiha 7 Mecca 1
                        6 Al-Masadd 5 Mecca 111
                        7 At-Takwir 29 Mecca 81
                        8 Al-Ala 19 Mecca 87
                        9 Al-Lail 21 Mecca 92
                        10 Al-Fajr 30 Mecca 89
                        11 Ad-Dhuha 11 Mecca 93
                        12 Al-Inshirah 8 Mecca 94
                        13 Al-Asr 3 Mecca 103
                        14 Al-Adiyat 11 Mecca 100
                        15 Al-Kauther 3 Mecca 108
                        16 At-Takathur 8 Mecca 102
                        17 Al-Maun 7 Mecca 107
                        18 Al-Kafiroon 6 Mecca 109
                        19 Al-Fil 5 Mecca 105
                        20 Al-Falaq 5 Mecca 113
                        21 An-Nas 6 Mecca 114
                        22 Al-Ikhlas 4 Mecca 112
                        23 An-Najm 62 Mecca 53
                        24 Abasa 42 Mecca 80
                        25 Al-Qadr 5 Mecca 97
                        26 Ash-Shams 15 Mecca 91
                        27 Al-Burooj 22 Mecca 85
                        28 At-Tin 8 Mecca 95
                        29 Quraish 4 Mecca 106
                        30 Al-Qaria 11 Mecca 101
                        31 Al-Qiyama 40 Mecca 75
                        32 Al-Humaza 9 Mecca 104
                        33 Al-Mursalat 50 Mecca 77
                        34 Qaf 45 Mecca 50
                        35 Al-Balad 20 Mecca 90
                        36 At-Tariq 17 Mecca 86
                        37 Al-Qamar 55 Mecca 54
                        38 Sad 88 Mecca 38
                        39 Al-Araf 206 Mecca 7
                        40 Al-Jinn 28 Mecca 72
                        41 Ya-Sin 83 Mecca 36
                        42 Al-Furqan 77 Mecca 25
                        43 Fatir 45 Mecca 35
                        44 Maryam 98 Mecca 19
                        45 Taha 135 Mecca 20
                        46 Al-Waqia 96 Mecca 56
                        47 Ash-Shuara 226 Mecca 26
                        48 An-Naml 93 Mecca 27
                        49 Al-Qasas 88 Mecca 28
                        50 Al-Isra 111 Mecca 17
                        51 Yunus 109 Mecca 10
                        52 Hud 123 Mecca 11
                        53 Yusuf 111 Mecca 12
                        54 Al-Hijr 99 Mecca 15
                        55 Al-Anaam 165 Mecca 6
                        56 As-Saaffat 182 Mecca 37
                        57 Luqman 34 Mecca 31
                        58 Saba 54 Mecca 34
                        59 Az-Zumar 75 Mecca 39
                        60 Al-Ghafir 85 Mecca 40
                        61 Fussilat 54 Mecca 41
                        62 Ash-Shura 53 Mecca 42
                        63 Az-Zukhruf 89 Mecca 43
                        64 Ad-Dukhan 59 Mecca 44
                        65 Al-Jathiya 37 Mecca 45
                        66 Al-Ahqaf 35 Mecca 46
                        67 Adh-Dhariyat 60 Mecca 51
                        68 Al-Ghashiya 26 Mecca 88
                        69 Al-Kahf 110 Mecca 18
                        70 An-Nahl 128 Mecca 16
                        71 Nooh 28 Mecca 71
                        72 Ibrahim 52 Mecca 14
                        73 Al-Ambiya 112 Mecca 21
                        74 Al-Mumenoon 118 Mecca 23
                        75 As-Sajda 30 Mecca 32
                        76 At-Tur 49 Mecca 52
                        77 Al-Mulk 30 Mecca 67
                        78 Al-Haaqqa 52 Mecca 69
                        79 Al-Maarij 44 Mecca 70
                        80 An-Naba 40 Mecca 78
                        81 An-Naziat 46 Mecca 79
                        82 Al-Infitar 19 Mecca 82
                        83 Al-Inshiqaq 25 Mecca 84
                        84 Ar-Room 60 Mecca 30
                        85 Al-Ankaboot 69 Mecca 29
                        86 Al-Mutaffifin 36 Mecca 83
                        87 Al-Baqara 286 Medina 2
                        88 Al-Anfal 75 Medina 8
                        89 Al-i-Imran 200 Medina 3
                        90 Al-Ahzab 73 Medina 33
                        91 Al-Mumtahina 13 Medina 60
                        92 An-Nisa 176 Medina 4
                        93 Al-Zalzala 8 Medina 99
                        94 Al-Hadid 29 Medina 57
                        95 Muhammad 38 Medina 47
                        96 Ar-Rad 43 Medina 13
                        97 Al-Rahman 78 Medina 55
                        98 Al-Insan 31 Medina 76
                        99 At-Talaq 12 Medina 65
                        100 Al-Bayyina 8 Medina 98
                        101 Al-Hashr 24 Medina 59
                        102 An-Noor 64 Medina 24
                        103 Al-Hajj 78 Medina 22
                        104 Al-Munafiqoon 11 Medina 63
                        105 Al-Mujadila 22 Medina 58
                        106 Al-Hujraat 18 Medina 49
                        107 At-Tahrim 12 Medina 66
                        108 At-Taghabun 18 Medina 64
                        109 As-Saff 14 Medina 61
                        110 Al-Jumua 11 Medina 62
                        111 Al-Fath 29 Medina 48
                        112 Al-Maeda 120 Medina 5
                        113 At-Taubah 129 Medina 9
                        114 An-Nasr 3 Medina 110
                        http//wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronological_Order_of_the_Qur'an
                        If you agree and know the source then pleas post the link .
                        Peace

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                          drfazl
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #72

                          Peace Bahman,

                          I have my source linked only to Allah

                          My source is pondering and reflecting upon the Truth of His Words, in the Name of Allah O The All Knowing!

                          When it comes to Quran heads or tails is not a matter with me.

                          I have given the reasoning behind my chronology. This is only a curiosity approach; never mind.

                          I would appreciate if you do the same to support your chronology and then dismiss it as non-starter to enter Quran.

                          drfazl

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                          • B Offline
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                            Bahman
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #73

                            Peace Bahman,

                            I have my source linked only to Allah

                            My source is pondering and reflecting upon the Truth of His Words, in the Name of Allah O The All Knowing!

                            When it comes to Quran heads or tails is not a matter with me.

                            I have given the reasoning behind my chronology. This is only a curiosity approach; never mind.

                            I would appreciate if you do the same to support your chronology and then dismiss it as non-starter to enter Quran.

                            drfazl

                            Peace drfazl

                            Thank you for your advise, I have entered to Quran from different angle 1736
                            not following parent and teacher blindly, I don't mind you name God's Miracle head and tail due to your misunderstanding which is influence of your growing up environment. Important is Quran and its divinity that even after conversion ihave witness messages that in its time is proof for prophet inspiration. But such messages could not protect all book from manipulation. How ever I do not discuss Miracle here but the person which was inspired after 1400 years to discover secret of 7 pairs alphabet as initial in 29 chapter claims The Prophet, of course, had written the Quran in its chronological order of revelation (Appendix 23),

                            That is a very important claim and i am searching to find the truth.
                            That table is not Head and Tail, it has all kind of properties and secret which everyday we found new one.
                            Hus one simple example may bring attention of you and others to secrecy of such table.
                            It was discovered by Dr. Eid Abd Allah that any 3 figure at either side of table none multiple of code turns into multiple. and then has been discovered more and more and yet is going on.

                            Here is very important for me that ask all readers please help to find the truth.
                            That table is copy of Rashad's which is published in the site introducing Mohammedans Islam with Moon and Star logo.

                            What is wrong when this site is hiding the source and gives few links with pages a pages of text. but not aword under table where and who?
                            What is copying who and what the claim for correctness of table?
                            Do know? Pleas help to find the truth.
                            Peace.

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                              drfazl
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #74

                              Peace drfazl

                              I have entered to Quran from different angle 1736

                              Peace Bahman,

                              You had entered Quran through 1736. You shall know that the chronology or the starting point for you to begin your journey on the Guidance, does not set out from 961 but from 1736, according to your own statement.

                              961
                              Rehearse in the Name of your God who Created.

                              What shall be our understanding from the above ayat?
                              How to understand this ayat?
                              Why to understand this ayat?
                              When to understand this ayat?
                              Where shall I understand this ayat from?

                              Some where you have to start to understand the ayat; that somewhere or some point is decided by Allah alone; there is no human conjured chronological way in this. Let us see each of the above questions as to what they mean by it?

                              What do you understand from this ayat 961

                              I have to read and that is it.
                              I have to read and memorise.
                              I have to read and understand.
                              I have to read, understand and remember.
                              I have to read, understand, remember and recite.
                              I have to read, understand, remember, recite and rehearse.
                              I have to rehearse the command of Allah, and be a model myself In the Name of Allah, The Creator.

                              Which is your chronological order by which you would like to follow the ayat 961 from the above; it is up to an individual's capacity where to start with and that which is decided only by Allah.

                              If you ask me I will take the last one as the first one to begin with as Allah has given me interest in this line to use His Quran; none but Allah could cause such intimacy with Quran; so I am propelled into it by His Mercy. Since In The Name of Allah, the Creator I had started my life every new day He Creates for me as a new bliss and beautiful environment for my mind and soul, I say "All Glory Be To Allah, The God of the Creator of The Universes." By this I mean I have read this ayat, understood it, remembered it, recited it, rehearsing it without forgetting Him or to Praise His Glory. Thus my chronology starts with remembering Allah and praising His Glory. And before that I seek help from My Creator to save me from all evil, shaitan who would make me forget You or fail me in remembering You. Therefore, to me to attain the straight path from the Holy Reading is first to remember 1698. So when you rehearse the Quran, seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaitan.

                              Thus if you take Quran as your Guide given by the Merciful, then follow Allah, clearing yourself purified from shaitan. It is Allah who would cause and make the universes fall at your feet for you. He would raise you to the Throne of the Universes, upon the Arsh. The chronology is your ascent from the dust to the top. Unshackle from the clutches of shaitan pleading with Allah and In His Name start ascending to the throne by His Mercy and Benevolence.

                              Thus the chronology to a believer is this

                              "I seek refuge in Allah from the accursed shaitan
                              All glory be to you, the God of the Universes
                              You are Most Benevolent; Most Merciful
                              You are the Master who would honour me to the Throne
                              Unto You is my obeisance; and Thine is my help
                              Conduct me in The Loveliest Way -
                              The Way You had shown to the Blessed ones; and
                              Not of the way, whom you had left astray."

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                                Bahman
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #75

                                Peace Bahman,

                                You had entered Quran through 1736. You shall know that the chronology or the starting point for you to begin your journey on the Guidance, does not set out from 961 but from 1736, according to your own statement.

                                961
                                Rehearse in the Name of your God who Created.

                                What shall be our understanding from the above ayat?
                                How to understand this ayat?
                                Why to understand this ayat?
                                When to understand this ayat?
                                Where shall I understand this ayat from?

                                Some where you have to start to understand the ayat; that somewhere or some point is decided by Allah alone; there is no human conjured chronological way in this. Let us see each of the above questions as to what they mean by it?

                                What do you understand from this ayat 961

                                I have to read and that is it.
                                I have to read and memorise.
                                I have to read and understand.
                                I have to read, understand and remember.
                                I have to read, understand, remember and recite.
                                I have to read, understand, remember, recite and rehearse.
                                I have to rehearse the command of Allah, and be a model myself In the Name of Allah, The Creator.

                                Which is your chronological order by which you would like to follow the ayat 961 from the above; it is up to an individual's capacity where to start with and that which is decided only by Allah.

                                If you ask me I will take the last one as the first one to begin with as Allah has given me interest in this line to use His Quran; none but Allah could cause such intimacy with Quran; so I am propelled into it by His Mercy. Since In The Name of Allah, the Creator I had started my life every new day He Creates for me as a new bliss and beautiful environment for my mind and soul, I say "All Glory Be To Allah, The God of the Creator of The Universes." By this I mean I have read this ayat, understood it, remembered it, recited it, rehearsing it without forgetting Him or to Praise His Glory. Thus my chronology starts with remembering Allah and praising His Glory. And before that I seek help from My Creator to save me from all evil, shaitan who would make me forget You or fail me in remembering You. Therefore, to me to attain the straight path from the Holy Reading is first to remember 1698. So when you rehearse the Quran, seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaitan.

                                Thus if you take Quran as your Guide given by the Merciful, then follow Allah, clearing yourself purified from shaitan. It is Allah who would cause and make the universes fall at your feet for you. He would raise you to the Throne of the Universes, upon the Arsh. The chronology is your ascent from the dust to the top. Unshackle from the clutches of shaitan pleading with Allah and In His Name start ascending to the throne by His Mercy and Benevolence.

                                Thus the chronology to a believer is this

                                "I seek refuge in Allah from the accursed shaitan
                                All glory be to you, the God of the Universes
                                You are Most Benevolent; Most Merciful
                                You are the Master who would honour me to the Throne
                                Unto You is my obeisance; and Thine is my help
                                Conduct me in The Loveliest Way -
                                The Way You had shown to the Blessed ones; and
                                Not of the way, whom you had left astray."

                                Peace
                                The Most Gracious.Teacher of the Quran.551-2
                                We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?
                                54 17 22 32 40
                                Do not move your tongue to hasten it. It is we who will collect it into Quran.
                                Once we recite it, you shall follow such a Quran.Then it is we who will explain it.
                                7516-19

                                My only teacher is God Alone and He is the one explains His messages. You may instruct those that can not read and write or don't have access to this screen. Quran is completion of all scriptures and essence of all messages is in 262

                                Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in God, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

                                If we believe in 1 and 2 but do not qualify for 3 can not be accepted .

                                Zoroastrian have explained righteous
                                Good taught
                                Good act
                                Good talk
                                any body with any belief can be righteous but believing in God and Day of Judgement need proof for existence of God and then divinity of the book.
                                That is the path I believe in Quran because I understood it and have verified for over 14 years by publishing it and asking "Produce one like it" Simple to understand Impossible to imitate

                                we should let the people to do their own search and study and do not instruct them do it this way or that way.

                                My search for avoiding multiple topic took me here that you explain order of revaluation.
                                I have come here to find the truth and answer to my questions not how to read quran by your learning of your teachers.

                                Please let us do our search, if you know why 96 is 1 and other chapter too please post it .
                                Peace.

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