Qu'ran and the Hijab/veil/niqab etc.?
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well what do you think the qu'ran says about the veil... do you think that it is prescribed...
me personally i dont think so...
in verse 2430. Verse 2431 says ??that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof?? this verse does not speak of any such hijab but only says that one should dress modestly, the beauty of the quran is that it is timeless, and is as applicable today as it was thousands of years ago, but only when read properly without haste and when time is devoted to understanding context, (which is why a lot of haters arguments against islam are laughable). surah 3359, if u look at its context you find that it is not aimed at prescribing the veil for muslim women, but to serve as a social marker to distinguish themselves from slaves, so they are not molested, or bothered. the dress code here is a social marker, not a gender specific dress code. the veil was specifically meant for the prophets wives as a protective measure IMO. The Quran only requires that both women and men dress modestly.
aaah man i just realised i posted this in the rong section brickwall
what are your views on this?
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well what do you think the qu'ran says about the veil... do you think that it is prescribed...
me personally i dont think so...
in verse 2430. Verse 2431 says ??that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof?? this verse does not speak of any such hijab but only says that one should dress modestly, the beauty of the quran is that it is timeless, and is as applicable today as it was thousands of years ago, but only when read properly without haste and when time is devoted to understanding context, (which is why a lot of haters arguments against islam are laughable). surah 3359, if u look at its context you find that it is not aimed at prescribing the veil for muslim women, but to serve as a social marker to distinguish themselves from slaves, so they are not molested, or bothered. the dress code here is a social marker, not a gender specific dress code. the veil was specifically meant for the prophets wives as a protective measure IMO. The Quran only requires that both women and men dress modestly.
aaah man i just realised i posted this in the rong section brickwall
what are your views on this?
The verse just says (so that they are recognized and not harmed). What slaves? Is it allowed to harm "slaves"? This understanding comes from the preconception that female slaves are sex toys. The way someone dresses tells a lot about their personality. If a female dresses in an indecent manner, there's more chance she gets in trouble from people without manners/ who follow their desires
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well what do you think the qu'ran says about the veil... do you think that it is prescribed...
me personally i dont think so...
in verse 2430. Verse 2431 says ??that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof?? this verse does not speak of any such hijab but only says that one should dress modestly, the beauty of the quran is that it is timeless, and is as applicable today as it was thousands of years ago, but only when read properly without haste and when time is devoted to understanding context, (which is why a lot of haters arguments against islam are laughable). surah 3359, if u look at its context you find that it is not aimed at prescribing the veil for muslim women, but to serve as a social marker to distinguish themselves from slaves, so they are not molested, or bothered. the dress code here is a social marker, not a gender specific dress code. the veil was specifically meant for the prophets wives as a protective measure IMO. The Quran only requires that both women and men dress modestly.
aaah man i just realised i posted this in the rong section brickwall
what are your views on this?
I think this is a never-ending discussion, well for some there is no "discussion" .... anyway, from what I understand, it says to draw the khimaar over the bosoms. So, they say that means you have to cover your head since the women were covering their heads at that time too.
I believe that all of the hijab "rules" come from the hadiths, such as not imitating the dress of the non-believers, etc ... please someone correct me if I'm wrong.
The part about wearing jilbab was for identification purposes, because the slave women were not covering. Other Muslims might argue otherwise, that jilbab is required regardless. Plus, Muslim slave women were not allowed to cover their hair. That's what I've read, anyway...
What I don't get is as far as I know, there is no strong, authentic hadith explaining hijab .... or is there something I haven't read??? I mean, there's the Abu Dawud hadith about covering everything about face & hands, but that's considered a weak hadith.
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33.59 Must be read in context, with what goes before and what goes after. The idea is not that women's must feel forever afraid of being molested. The idea is that those who threaten and molest women be get rid off, but that in the meantime, women do whatever they can to ward them off. It cannot be understood that molestation is an ordinara state of affairs and that therefore believing women should always be worried that they may be molested if the molesters feel that they "cannot recognize them sufficiently".
Salaam
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Peace
I just figured you thought I was saying "mattress". I said Mulattress, who is a mixed female of European and African heritage like Halle Berry.
Joe
I was only joking by the way, don't want you thinking i was that stupid
i didnt know what a mulatress was tho so thanks -
imo the word 'hijab' is mentioned 7 times in the quran and each of these 7 times do not refer to a women's dress code. i feel the hijab is a practice of tradition not of islam.
hope i dont offend any1, i am still learning and am looking forward to learning more. thx
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Peace
I just figured you thought I was saying "mattress". I said Mulattress, who is a mixed female of European and African heritage like Halle Berry.
Joe
Yes, one must make the difference. It would be no fun to sleep with a mattress on top.
laugh laugh laugh -
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm
From http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htm
Another common mistake regarding dress code is when the following situation-specific verse is applied to all situations
And those who harm the believing men and the believing women, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves a slander and a gross sin.
O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen (or draw near) their outer-garments. Thus, they will be recognized and avoid being harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
If the hypocrites and those with disease in their hearts and those who spread lies in the city do not refrain, then We will let you overpower them, then they will not be able to remain as your neighbours except for a short while.The mistake is exposed when the practicalities of applying the above verses are considered. The verses deal with open enmity with significant repercussions for the perpetrators if this behaviour does not stop. The open enmity is direct to the person, hence the need for the women to modify their outer-garment in order to be recognised in public and not harmed. For the suggested solution in these verses to succeed three things must be in place
- The open enmity must be present in the community and direct to the women
- The modification in outer-garment and the consequence for the perpetrator of not abiding by this identification code must either be made known to the community or this would have to be common knowledge amongst the community
- The authority is in place to fight/expel those persisting in this behaviour
Clearly, this specific criteria has to be fulfilled for these verses to work, thus is not a universal rule. It is situation-specific, e.g. if a section of the community become hostile to believing women or women in general and the believers have authority in the land, then they can utilise this solution, effectively giving an ultimatum with no room for excuse for the perpetrators.
These verses are commonly interpreted to mean that Muslim women must lengthen (or draw near) their outer-garment whenever in public even in times of peace. However, this is easily refuted by considering that if this was the case and open enmity then appeared, the modification suggested in these verses would already exist, thus implementing the modification in these verses could not be done, thus rendering the solution described in these verses as void.
Salaam Wakas, all.
I don't think this is situation specific. The logic of the verse is not that only when the situation arises should the momin women adopt this dress code, but rather this advice is to be followed at all times by the momin women. According to the logic of the verse, the adoption of the dress-code is not dependent upon the "recognition" and "hurt", but rather the "recognition" and "hurt" are dependent upon the adoption of the dress-code.
The dress-code advice therefore is not situation specific, rather it is there to avoid creating a situation.
Like Samia said above that "If a female dresses in an indecent manner, there's more chance she gets in trouble from people without manners/ who follow their desires". I second that.
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peace Fahad,
It was considered as a general thing, but there are problems with this view
What do you make of points (2) and (3)?
What do you make of the use of "God is Forgiving, Merciful" line at the end of 3359?
If we accept your understanding, and open enmity then appeared, what would be your response as per your understanding of AQ for such a situation? If you asked them to refrain as suggested in the verse after (3360), and they said "how do we tell which women is which?", what would you say/do?
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Like Samia said above that "If a female dresses in an indecent manner, there's more chance she gets in trouble from people without manners/ who follow their desires". I second that.
Are you purporting that the wives of the Prophet and the believing women were dressing indecently when this aya was revealed? Actually they aya says absolutely nothing about decency, nor does it imply or hint at the molestation being due to that. The context doesn't hint to that either.
Salaam
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I think the same, was the fashion different between Mecca and Madina? Maybe it was between free people and slaves but I don't think there were big differences between Madinan and Meccan.
Also I would like to point out that in the verse 3358 both Men and Women were molested, not only women because of their way to dress.Isn't it?
