Qu'ran and the Hijab/veil/niqab etc.?
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So basically you think it's the striking of the feet, the way they walk?
Salaam
Wearing high heel in office and the distracting noise it makes has been the subject of debate for some time, but to say that it disturbs the working atmosphere for men cannot be discussed openly as women object to any such accusations.
peace -
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Salaam
Wearing high heel in office and the distracting noise it makes has been the subject of debate for some time, but to say that it disturbs the working atmosphere for men cannot be discussed openly as women object to any such accusations.
peaceIt is a great early warning system though
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Salam to all!
Pretty hair-splitting analyses on Hijab et al., huh? 'Men' (gender-wise) are always good at 'women' issues vis-a-vis Deen Al-Islam... my observation (I am 51 yrs old now).Let's us ask ourselves Has NOT Allah endowed us with GENERAL sense of modesty? If yes, then we need SPECIFIC instructions, like when a woman draws attention to a degree to arouse men in PUBLIC places, wittingly or unwittingly. In such cases where/when a women does not perceive it not (for she does not know what goes in men's mind, but surely Allah does), Allah raised a flag, telling to conceal the profile of the bossoms, and not to strike the feet on the ground, which would emit the kind of romantic jingling sound from the brass/silver-beaded foot chain that oriental women usually wear as ornaments....
When at home, she does NOT care either of these two things, obviously. Gentlemen, it's THAT simple!
And as to the nature of 'men with disease in their hearts', let me present to you this experience I have from living in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. Back in 1985, four-five graduate student friends of mine from my country, India, used to take the bus to Dammam city in the evening everyday, even during Ramadan, and walk to the "Ladies' Market". DO YOU KNOW WHY? Yes, I asked them, and one of them winked (while others giggled in full approval) and said
"We go to see women!"
"What women?" I asked back, "Are NOT they covered in ALL BLACK hijab, including the face? Then WHAHT do you see of them?"
"Oh, we can still 'see' the PROFILE!!!"Some of these gentlemen are doctors, PhD's in the US, Canada and Australia....
But I learnt the tafseer of what Allah said about the "sickness in some men's heart...", without a SCHOLARs hair-splitting analyses....
.... For sure, from time to time I have to warn my wife and daughters, although very careful and observant-Muslima they are, to the 'profile' aspect whenever they go for dress of new fashions.... much like Alla warned 1400+ years ago.....
I believe the discussion took much longer than it deserved. brickwall
Wassalam,
Rafiqul
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I doubt that the whole point in 24.31 is about arousing anybody, particularly men, since it says
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent of it, and let them draw with their covers over their chests. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those committed to them by oath, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
That is, whatever the women must not show, they must not show it other women either. Of course, same sex arousal it seems it exists, as same family arousal also exist (incest), but I doubt that it is that is addressed in the second part of the aya, the part that is not parallel to 24.30.
Salaam
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Salaam
Wearing high heel in office and the distracting noise it makes has been the subject of debate for some time, but to say that it disturbs the working atmosphere for men cannot be discussed openly as women object to any such accusations.
peaceI would say it distracts anybody, not just men.
Salaam
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peace Sarah,
When there is only one possible interpretation, I prefer not to think of it as "what I think" and more like this is what AQ is saying. I will explain, 2431 is almost falling over itself clarifying what it means, e.g.
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent of it, and let them draw with their covers over their chests. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their women, or those committed to them by oath, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.should not reveal their beauty except what is apparent of it = proves that at least part MUST be uncovered, as "Arabic min" is a partitive. So, the only question is, how much can be apparent, and how much can be hidden.
By referencing "the child who has not yet understood the composition of women" it is clearly implying that it is referring to what is unique to females. This is further proven by telling males in 2430 to guard their genatalia. What is the only other thing different between men and women? Female breasts, hence mentioned. That is why NOTHING else is mentioned.
Then if the above is not enough, it goes on to say "And let them not strike with their feet that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty." There is only a limited number of parts of a woman's body that could be revealed by such an act. There is no escaping this interpretation, it is clear. It also further clarifies how to determine what is apparent and what is hidden beauty.
To conclude, everything in the verse reinforces each other and only leaves one possible interpretation (or at least I cannot see any other viable interpretation). This surprised me, as I was not expecting this when I researched it. I am now of the view, these observations finally smash the traditional understanding. This can be further proven by the rest of the article, and the ablution, note that in the Quranic ablution nothing of the Quranic female dress code is compromised. It is a perfect fit.
It is not a matter of showing off! This goes directly against the message of 2460, also mentioned in the article. It is all about AQ giving the necessary flexibility, which I briefly commented on here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9597104.msg202040#msg202040
I can honestly say that the female dress code according to AQ is a thing of beauty (no pun intended).Peace Wakas,
Have you read this article from brother warner
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11995.msg87737#msg877372431 strike their feet or separating/parting their legs
? on May 17, 2006, 023631 PM ? Quote
24 31
Yusuf Ali And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands their fathers their husbands' fathers their sons their husbands' sons their brothers or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons or their women or the slaves whom their right hands possess or male servants free of physical needs or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not STRIKE THEIR FEET in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah that ye may attain Bliss.
In above verse "yadrib na biarjulihin na.... strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments" , I guess is the wrong translation.
For yadrib/darab the the meanings beat, put forth , put forward, travel or go forth, move
separate, being apart, to put a distance can be found in the use of these words in the Quraan. (Eg 434, 494 ,4101, 14 45 , 3927 , 3793 and in many other verses )Biarjulihin/Rijla means legs.
The word for Feet is qadam.
By parting the legs too much while sitting or when walking women can show their
hidden attractions. I never understood the reason for women to strike their feet or how
that can show their attraction.This is my humble opinion of the verse and please add your thoughts."
Peace
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peace herbman,
RJL never means legs in AQ. Feel free to cite an example to the contrary. DRB often means strike when it is accompanied by mentioning what with, but of course the literal form of DRB often carries an idiomatic meaning, so in this case can mean any type of walking/striding/feet movement.
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I would say it distracts anybody, not just men.
Salaam
Salaam huruf
True! I have asked for a man?s honest opinion and it appears that men tend to get more than just distracted often their gaze aimlessly follows woman until she disappears from their sight. Why brickwallIs it true? I would appreciate honest input from men on this site.
peace -
Salaam huruf
True! I have asked for a man?s honest opinion and it appears that men tend to get more than just distracted often their gaze aimlessly follows woman until she disappears from their sight. Why brickwallIs it true? I would appreciate honest input from men on this site.
peaceBut why you are banging your head on the wall why don?t you ask those men who look at women in that way and wot abt women who gaze at men in same way.
And please don?t ask my honest opinion in this case.Thanks in advance. ;D
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As a side note, I just realised why some translators are forced to say their hidden charms/beauty (revealed by striking of feet) refers to ankle bracelets hidden from view BECAUSE they know it MUST refer to beauty/charm that's hidden. So, when faced with this problem, instead of saying its the hidden parts already discussed in the verse, as this would blow the traditional interpretation, they make up unmentioned ankle bracelets. rotfl
You gotta love the Traditionalists sometimes. Their interpretations often have artificially constructed biased reasoning, but luckily for us, it is often easy to expose with all the tools available now.
Source www.altafsir.com
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