Was Moses in Egypt?????
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Peace jkhan.
This is a trap that anyone can fall into, quoteThose who reject the verses of God is Disveliever... Be it hadith follower or christian or jews or anyone even how good they are or how much time they spend on what they do with good intentions... Rejecting verses of God is simply rejecting God.. Their is no success by rejecting God and his verses.. Yes they think they don't reject God and they may never know they do reject God they worship daily but openly reject the verses of God.. They are simply blinded..
Also it should be
Those who reject GOD s words DELIBERATELY AND INTENTIONALLY...Be it anyone including you ,me and everyone else....Knowingly....Which by the way can only be known by GOD if it is kept to themselves unless they are openly opposing GOD and creating Fassad(wickedness on earth.
Never mind thinking others are following hadiths, when we ae all capable of following our own made up hadiths or someone elses aware or unaware ,thinking we are the ones guided!!!
.Yet we argue "our truth" as if it is GOD s truth and we have monopoly of GOD s truth. If we are so sure of our truth, then the best way is to use it to better our ways and improve our character by treating everyone as "innocent" unless proven guilty/admitting guilt openly.
Those who believe ,believe for themseves. A big part of our belief is to leave the judgement to GOD.
GOD bless you brother.
Peace. -
Peace jkhan.
This is a trap that anyone can fall into, quoteThose who reject the verses of God is Disveliever... Be it hadith follower or christian or jews or anyone even how good they are or how much time they spend on what they do with good intentions... Rejecting verses of God is simply rejecting God.. Their is no success by rejecting God and his verses.. Yes they think they don't reject God and they may never know they do reject God they worship daily but openly reject the verses of God.. They are simply blinded..
Also it should be
Those who reject GOD s words DELIBERATELY AND INTENTIONALLY...Be it anyone including you ,me and everyone else....Knowingly....Which by the way can only be known by GOD if it is kept to themselves unless they are openly opposing GOD and creating Fassad(wickedness on earth.
Never mind thinking others are following hadiths, when we ae all capable of following our own made up hadiths or someone elses aware or unaware ,thinking we are the ones guided!!!
.Yet we argue "our truth" as if it is GOD s truth and we have monopoly of GOD s truth. If we are so sure of our truth, then the best way is to use it to better our ways and improve our character by treating everyone as "innocent" unless proven guilty/admitting guilt openly.
Those who believe ,believe for themseves. A big part of our belief is to leave the judgement to GOD.
GOD bless you brother.
Peace.Peace brother good logic...
No one is exempted... All are in a trial...we are on a mission.. Until his or her last moment.. It can break into pieces at any time and lose everything if we dont keep looking for guidance.. ..
That's why believer begs for pardon... Almost every day.. Even on every action which concerns. For example what Dawud did after his decision on Shepard .. He was not sure he was right or wrong .. but he did ..so best way to ask for forgiveness... Asking pardon is a weapon in this life for believers when we are not sure and when we wrong unknown and by mistake etc..I don't know what difference it makes DELIBERATELY and INTENTIONALLY... Anyhow rejectors are of various type.. Rejecting under any circumstances or any manner is rejection...even wittingly or unwittingly.. All rejection..
How one rejects a matter for example God or His verses..
1 .. Rejecting even before knowing it.. Not even try to know it..not at all interested in truth..
2... Rejecting out of pride..
3.. Rejecting after very well knowing..
4...Rejecting not being able to adapt to truth..
5... Rejecting to remain in belief of what the ancestors left..
6... Rejecting to nullify the truth..
7... Rejecting so that deception and lie prevail..
8.... Rejecting coz living in full of doubt...
9... Rejecting coz they found majority rejecting ...
10... Rejecting out of envious, dirty mind on believers..
11... Rejecting with over confidence..
12... Rejecting when failing in the life and trial... When life not going well for one.
13... Rejecting coz always the path of Satan decorated to him..
14... Rejecting coz God never guided them.. And their hearts are locked for guidance and truth...
15... Rejecting coz they feel all these are ancient innovation of nonsensical people... And all teach same nonsense..
16 ... Rejecting coz they feel they are better equipped and educated and feels self sufficient...You can name...
Somehow all rejectors... Kafir..
If a believer doesn't know he is a believer that's far from reality... Everyone should judge themselves where they stand... If we don't know about ourself first then it is pointless living. 231-10... Even 2177 is a good example to self judge.. Many a verse spread throughout QURAN.. We should be able to judge ourself... But.. God will judge us our action our truthfulness.. ... Believers will always know about their belief in fact throughout life span. Even at the time of death believers will know they are believers.. Even on the day of ressurection they will remain with confidence and with good news.. Will God treat believers same as disbelievers..
True believer knows he is a believer.. That's incontrovertible.. For example.. The one who hid his faith to king Pharaoh.. Was he thinking he was a disbeliever.. And why he should think so.. Why he should say to people "come I will show you right path ".. Who is he? Why people should believe him.. Why God says to marry your children to those who believe..4829 "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the DISBELIEVERS, merciful among themselves...."
how do they know disbelievers in the first place.. to be forceful against them..4144 "O you who have believed, do not take the DISBELIEVERS as allies instead of the BELIEVERS. Do you wish to give Allah against yourselves a clear case?"
Look at above verse.. First judge self... Then find who is Disbeliver then know your fellow Believers... Then take action according to verse.. That's what those believers would have done..If one claim he doesn't know who the DISBELIVERS are then even though he lives with them, then he may not be a believer in the first place.. That's my understanding.. ..
For all these you shouldn't deny God's verses.. Our actions shouldn't deny God's verses.Knowing disbeliever is easier coz he is much exposed by what he does.. Harder part is to know Munafiq... That's a big challenge... If you read verses where Munafiq appears... Munafiq are believers.. But they will be exposed.. The weakness in the belief turn a believer to Munafiq..
9101 "And among those around you of the a'rab are hypocrites, and from the people of Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. YOU DO NOT KNOW THEM, We know them. We will punish them twice ; then they will be returned to a great punishment"Strange isn't it? But slowly but surely they will be exposed.. It's not something that can be hidden.. Their dirty mind under the blanket of believer cannot survive for long...
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salam jkhan
you still dont get what i am saying lol
you (Quran only people) think because you believe in Quran only that you are guided and that your line of defense is you followed the Quran only
it is not because we followed Quran only that we are necessarily guided. The God does what He wants. Remember the verse where we are told told people think they are guided by they are not?
The God knows who He guides. not you not me not anyone else knows
Do not go assuming this person or that is a kafir and you are guided just cause you uphold Quran only.
many who still believe in hadith give charity all the time, spend their nights and dawns praying, avoid vain talk, spend with their lives and goods in The God’s name etc etc
you (as in Quran alone people) spend your nights and dawns in prayer and Quran recitation? many Quran alone people dont even think prayer is physical
you went to pilgrimage wherever you think it might be? many Quran alone people dont even think the masjid is physical while people who uphold hadith spend their wealths to go pilgrimage for The God
etc etcusing the i followed Quran alone as defense in day of judgement... you realize that if The God wants we will not even speak or be given opportunity to defend our case right? the best thing to do is to strive in our faith of The God and make worship of The God our passion, and never assume we are guided cause we do not know
so dont go assuming Quran only people are guided just cause we uphold Quran only. maybe we understood nothing in the Book
peace
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Peace jkhan.
We find ourselves disagreeing about "disbelievers". You think you know them?For me, there are more important things to do in life than worry about someone s point of view about disbelievers or religion or disbelievers whoever they are!
-Saariou Ila Maghfiratin Min Rabbikum- Racing each other to good deeds , good morals and helping others(including disbelievers,if they require it) should be our aim according to Qoran.Or are you going to disagree again? Is the main/important message of Qoran not clear? here is a summary
Whatever we do for our salvation, we do it to "feed our soul"/"connect to our Creator"/Redeem ourselves "/"Prepare ourselves to meet Him"...
The instructions in Qoran are GOD s advise to you and me and everyone else on how to grow our "soul" to be able to withstand GOD s presence on the day of the "meeting".
It is GOD s advise to you and me and everyone else to "follow His path( good conduct and good morals and total loyalty to Him Alone) and look after our "soul"the same or even better than we are looking after our "body". Do not neglect the "spiritual self""The well fed souls-Heavyweights- will succeed. The starving souls- the light weights- will lose!!!!!!
It is for our own good. Each to save their own neck.
Do not worry about the "disbelievers", it is between them and the Creator!!!!!
Hope we agree now.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
you still dont get what i am saying lol
I wish you don't say this quote on the day of ressurection... 'O God you dont get me, i did follow Quran" ...
Remember 2530 carefully... Messenger was not worried about Hadith...but merely Quran...you (Quran only people) think because you believe in Quran only that you are guided and that your line of defense is you followed the Quran only
it is not because we followed Quran only that we are necessarily guided. The God does what He wants. Remember the verse where we are told told people think they are guided by they are not?
I don't believe only in Quran... i believe as per 2285 The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, , "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." And they say, "We hear and we obey. Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the destination.""
Yes I do follow Quran only... That's what My God has ordered me to do in His book Quran...Coz I am not born before Quran...If you feel you are not necessarily guided while following Quran only, then beg to God to guide you to the straight path... Following Quran is criteria, Guiding and misguiding is God's Business..Intention is key... If ones intention is to get the guidance and only guidance then having to get the misguidance from the Lord He begged for guidance is shear piece of Joke... Those who are misguided definitely their inner intention was not guidance but lip service... God knows them... Don't worry about them..
The God knows who He guides. not you not me not anyone else knows
Ofcourse God ONLY knows whomE He guides... Any doubt? Any issue? Did i ever say that someone else also has the capacity to guide... Just even messengers or believers can pass the message but no one can guide anyone...
But don't forget it is not alien thing to know who is guided... if guided they are believers... I know within my capacity who are believers when i live with them for sometime... Coz quran has basic how one can be a believer... if you dont have capacity to know... it's not my issue..
Do not go assuming this person or that is a kafir and you are guided just cause you uphold Quran only.
You are blinded to say about me and to order me... I don't go after each and everyone he is believer and he is disbeliever.... You think, i am a paid spy.. lol..
I am not living in a strange world not to know my collegues, my friends, my familiy members... They themselves accept what they believe and what they don't ... And we can see what they do as well to verify... All one has to do is compare what they do with Quran and its message...
For example... Why Ibrahim was worried about his father.... How Ibrahim knew he is guided and his father is not.... what right ibrahim has to say to his father you are going on wrong path.... Just use your wits dude... know where you live and with whome you live unless you are lost, how can you know about others..many who still believe in hadith give charity all the time, spend their nights and dawns praying, avoid vain talk, spend with their lives and goods in The God’s name etc etc
Their destiny is in God's Hand... But it is not difficult to know who is believer or disbeliever.... if one himself he is a believer... even the destiny of believer is in God's hand... it doesnt mean we cannot know the disbeliever... All religious people giving charity .... spend night in prayers of their way, all good people avoid vain talk... For example my Hindu friend... I hope he is better charactor than me... coz i know my limit... the most charitable he is.... But he worship idols calling they are gods... and he claims they 330 millons of gods .. He says he cant change his way... and he finds that's right.... Now as a friend what i will understand ... Can i call him a believer in God just coz he is charitable....
My ancestors and relatives... very religious... women are face covered... wonderful peacful charactors... unbelievable people... love to be with them as human... but if i say who authorized you to follow Hadith.... my goodness... it is even sin to say like that brother... our prophet told follow hadith.... not shia hadith but sunni hadith.... without hadith you are not complete....When i ask what do follow according to Quran? Can you give me a single example...honestly they dont have answer what they follow according to Quran.... Simply they don't follow anything according to quran... that's why they are speachless.. but they feel they are right... Who am i to guide them... But don't i know they have discarded quran in place of hadith....if i don't know i should be a fool...
you (as in Quran alone people) spend your nights and dawns in prayer and Quran recitation? many Quran alone people dont even think prayer is physical
I am not quran alone people... It is your whim that makes you to call me as such.... I am a believer...If you can call, call it ... if you can't.. just leave it... But don't call me quran alone people... There is no such thing...
Hope God guide you and me and all....Guidance is something we always should beg for from God....But believer cannot be believer today and change tomorrow... Thank you for reading...
i wonder even if you say i don't get you... -
We find ourselves disagreeing about "disbelievers". 1.You think you know them?
2..For me, there are more important things to do in life than worry about someone s point of view about disbelievers or religion or disbelievers whoever they are!
-Saariou Ila Maghfiratin Min Rabbikum- Racing each other to good deeds , good morals and helping others(including disbelievers,if they require it) should be our aim according to Qoran.3...Or are you going to disagree again? Is the main/important message of Qoran not clear? here is a summary
- Whatever we do for our salvation, we do it to "feed our soul"/"connect to our Creator"/Redeem ourselves "/"Prepare ourselves to meet Him"...
The instructions in Qoran are GOD s advise to you and me and everyone else on how to grow our "soul" to be able to withstand GOD s presence on the day of the "meeting".
It is GOD s advise to you and me and everyone else to "follow His path( good conduct and good morals and total loyalty to Him Alone) and look after our "soul"the same or even better than we are looking after our "body". Do not neglect the "spiritual self"
"The well fed souls-Heavyweights- will succeed. The starving souls- the light weights- will lose!!!!!!
5 .It is for our own good. Each to save their own neck.
6.Do not worry about the "disbelievers", it is between them and the Creator!!!!!
Hope we agree now.
GOD bless you.
Peace.1.. Yes i know them... as long as they they live with me with what they do and what they practice and what they claim and what they reject is obvoius....
2.. I wish you can help me... i have too much important things to do as well....lol...I am not worried about those who disbelieve... do you think i am worried about them... What benefit for me by worrying about them... I only pray for them for their guidance and forgiveness from God.. God will he would..
3... Disagree what ? important message of quran for me is clear... if you have any doubt and if you wish you may request...God willing i will explain..
4... about my soul i will look after it...
5.. Yes... Agree... now what is the issue with that?
6... as i said earlier... i won't worry about them... do you?
7.. There is nothing to agree with you... just follow quran if you wish, so do i...that's all...
God bless you and me and all and guide us always.. Ensure not to die without being Muslim (Surrenderer)... Now don't say that also we don't know..
Do you know you are a muslim or not, since you dont know you are believer or not? I know i am a muslim.. hope you too..lol
coz..
3102 "O you who have believed, fear Allah as He should be feared and do not die except as Muslims"...
See the difference here... God advises the believers (Mumin) not to die without being Muslim ... So one should first know he is a believer in God.. and before his death he has to ensure that he is not going to die without being a Muslim...
If one cannot know this simple verse... it is his destiny...additioinally...
I advise both of you...
Reade verse 022-17 carefully and meticulously each and every verse.... You would never have argued with me on this very topic, had you got it.... Believers know believers and disbelievers know believers as well. - Whatever we do for our salvation, we do it to "feed our soul"/"connect to our Creator"/Redeem ourselves "/"Prepare ourselves to meet Him"...
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Salam,
you (Quran only people) think because you believe in Quran only that you are guided and that your line of defense is you followed the Quran only
I hope you aren't referring to people here as "Quran Only". We are Muslims/Submitters as God has named the people who follow His system. Quran only, from the name of it, seems to be some sick Quran worshiping sect.
Do not go assuming this person or that is a kafir and you are guided just cause you uphold Quran only.
I honestly don't get why people are scared of using terms that God uses...I have seen this "political correctness" go on for many years now, where suddenly there are no Kafirs or Mushriks or Munafiqs or Muslims or Mumins - we are all one big soup of "only God can judge!".
No wonder Muslims are lost...
For example, God teaches us that people who say "trinity" or "God is Jesus" are "Kufaar" (see 573-73).
So, you get a simple question from a Christian asking you "what does the Quran say about Christianity?"
You can be truthful and say "anyone who says trinity or Jesus is God is considered a rejecter/kaffir and his destiny is not so great if he does not repent" - while this answer maybe shocking, it provides clarity to the person asking based on very specific and clear instructions from God.
Alternatively, you can follow the "politically correct" route and say "I don't know, his judgement is with God, but if he did good work, then I'm sure he will be fine"
One response is specific and truthful and may help the person to find the correct path - while the other is vague and deceitful and will most likely cause both the person asking and the person responding to be held accountable for their stupidity.
many who still believe in hadith give charity all the time, spend their nights and dawns praying, avoid vain talk, spend with their lives and goods in The God’s name etc etc
So what? If they committed shirk then their deeds are all for nothing...
3965 And He has inspired to you and to those before you, that if you set up partners, He will nullify all your works, and you will be of the losers.
In-fact, the first commandment for the "Straight Path" is not to set-up partners with God (6151).
using the i followed Quran alone as defense in day of judgement... you realize that if The God wants we will not even speak or be given opportunity to defend our case right? the best thing to do is to strive in our faith of The God and make worship of The God our passion, and never assume we are guided cause we do not know
Your posts are clearly smart enough to tell me you get this whole scam that has been going on and you know the truth from the falsehood...Yet, something is holding you back (the threads of culture/society/family?!). Your example reminds me of Abraham who tried his best to see that his father was still "OK" even though he knew it was a lost cause 604.
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I honestly don't get why people are scared of using terms that God uses...I have seen this "political correctness" go on for many years now, where suddenly there are no Kafirs or Mushriks or Munafiqs or Muslims or Mumins - we are all one big soup of "only God can judge!".
No wonder Muslims are lost...
For example, God teaches us that people who say "trinity" or "God is Jesus" are "Kufaar" (see 573-73).
So, you get a simple question from a Christian asking you "what does the Quran say about Christianity?"
You can be truthful and say "anyone who says trinity or Jesus is God is considered a rejecter/kaffir and his destiny is not so great if he does not repent" - while this answer maybe shocking, it provides clarity to the person asking based on very specific and clear instructions from God.
Alternatively, you can follow the "politically correct" route and say "I don't know, his judgement is with God, but if he did good work, then I'm sure he will be fine"
One response is specific and truthful and may help the person to find the correct path - while the other is vague and deceitful and will most likely cause both the person asking and the person responding to be held accountable for their stupidity.
Peace Layth..
That's a a perfect response... I wonder why a believer doesn't know he is believer and doest know the disbeliever... Seriously sometging wrong with them..
I don't want to give any more example since your answer is perfect... But still I present the following verse...
3149 "O you who have BELIEVED, if you obey those who DISBELIEVE, they will turn you back on your heels, and you will become losers"
I wish those who say they don't know whether they are guided or believrs and not know who the Disbelivers are.. Pls rethink...
How would you obey a disbeliever whome you don't know he is disbeliever... How would you keep away from the disbeliever from obeying him unless you know you are a Believer.. .. Just know the self and you will know the disbeliever to not to obey them...
If you still say you don't know the disbeliever then you will definitely obey them... Those who obey them will be losers...
Peace.. -
salam
so believer/submitter is defined to be someone who believes in The God and upholds Quran only whilst hadith followers are disbelievers?
you need to understand what shirk means. you think shirk is openly being polytheistic. well no.
shirk is obeying the devil rather than The God. it is quite clear from the Quran
example the devil makes it seem to christians that trinity is okay and correct. the devil also pushes people to not give charity, or to be atheist.Certainly! You and that which you are worshipping now besides The God, are fuel for Hell! you will enter it. (ch 21, verse 9
what is it that the disbeliever worship that will enter? trinity? krishna? “atheism”? etc well no, it is the devil(s)
the devil perhaps also makes “submitters” (who updhold Quran only) believe that prayer is not physical, that they do not need to bow down to The God and prostrate.
the devil could also make it seem to submitters that ramadan is just a couple of days and not a month, or that there is no masjid to make pilgrimage to.
and yet the “submitters” will think they are on the right path eventhough they dont pray or make pilgrimage etc. remember The God gave permission (as nothing happens without His permission) to the devil to make people’s works seem good and attractive to them.can we say that just because people uphold Quran only that the devil has no power over them? I do not know, i am only saying we should not think we are guided, but rather continuously strive in our worship of The God and constantly ask The God for guidance and forgiveness.
and pray bowing down and prostrating to The God everyday with our faces to the floor from (1) sunset to darkness of the night and in parts of the night, (2) at day of gathering, and (3) before fajr, and to also recite the Quran every night and fajr (that is my understanding, and i am just sharing)thinking “submitters” are guided and those who uphold hadith are allll kufar and disbelievers is arrogance i think
and remember, arrogance caused the devil to fall from angel state to becoming a djinn and a kafir (i think devil was an angel before disobeying)again, it is not because people have “submitted” that they are necessarily guided cause we do not know who truly submitted. only The God knows what is in our hearts and, He does what He wants.
also, remember that many from before and many from after will enter one of the paradises. many from before and some from after will enter the other (foremost) paradise. we do not know who these “many” are and who these “some” are (although “some” maybe we could guess includes those who died in the name of The God)
i clash with people regarding abandoning hadith, sunnah etc and many reply to me that they pray to The God and not prophet, but they just cannot take the “risk” of deviating from what billions of people believe in and have been doing for generations. so they obviously know that there is only The God and they pray only to The God.
yes i know The God says do not mention anyone with Him (which could make shahada is perhaps shirk) and we are told to not follow hadith etc but again we cannot judge those who uphold hadith
do i think those who are for example in awe when they see prophet hair or sandals or whatver are okay? or who uphold stories such as the 50 prayer thing are ok?
no i do not, i think that is an extremely dangerous thinking.but i do not know what is in their hearts nor what is in mine
peace
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Peace Layth, All.
Fisrt brother Layth, you say this,quote
"
Alternatively, you can follow the "politically correct" route and say "I don't know, his judgement is with God, but if he did good work, then I'm sure he will be fine"
One response is specific and truthful and may help the person to find the correct path - while the other is vague and deceitful and will most likely cause both the person asking and the person responding to be held accountable for their stupidity.
"
Here is what Qoran advises
Do not call any peaceful person "you are not a believer", if your aim is to correct them, then do it " Bi Al Hikmati Wa Al Mawidati Al Hasanati".With good intention.
Of course you should uphold the truth and be honest with it.
The issue is what is the benefit of calling a kafir even if they are one?There is a difference between knowing that certain people are following traditions and false religions and being hostile with them by calling them kafirs..
We should give the example by being peaceful,but honest with our views and inviting them amicably to reflect., unless of course they turn away/refuse . Then one should ignore and walk away amicably.Ittabiu Ashana Ma Unzila Ilaikum Min Rabbikum. We should follow the best path instructed to us in Qoran by GOD.
Calling anyone a Kafir is never the best path to follow.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
salam good logic
i agree with your logic lol
we should not call people kafir
we dont know who is kafir who is not (i am not speaking about the open polytheism)
only The God knowssalam eveyone,
i want to add another thing. we need to stop making assumptions and taking the Quran as a mystery book.
example we cannot assume ramadan is ten days or three days. why assume that? did The God say that? no
The God said who witnesses the month let him or her fast IT.
starting to use verses that have no relationship to ramadan to try to figure out what fixed number of days means is a bit weird in my opinion. fixed numner of days could perhaps mean the whole month and not some of it! or perhaps not 29 or 30 days depending on the year but always either 30 or 29!
or maybe shahr means a period! and ramadan is a period of 40 days?
the point is, we fast IT! the period/month of ramadanThe God says bowing and prostrating and even tells us when (salats are named! aaand described !!! (ends of dlthe day and oarts of the night and day of gathering!) why start making assumptions and thinking ourselves heros that are soo clever that they figured out that prostating and bowing means something else and salat does not mean prayer
same goes for the masjid! its quite obvious to me (unless im
mistaken of course) that we make pilgrim to the house which is the masjid al Haram and we face it from wherever we go out ! (and other instances perhaps like during prayer maybe?)we should not let satan fool us.
people, we need prostrate eveyday to The God and ask forgiveness for us, our family, and the mo’mineen, seek guidance from The God, submit completely and say it (in Quran we are told to say sayings like our lives, worship, devotion and death belong to The God and our Lord give us good in this life, good in the hereafter and save us from the fire (i personally say these and others during prayer)). also please read verses 110 and 110 of surah 17 (more info on prayer and what to say)
anyways i am just sharing what i truly believe
and hope to also learn from other people hereto conclude, please stop making assumptions and seeking interprtations. satan makes people’s deeds seem good to them
none of us know if we are guided or not. we should always question ourselves and seek guidance from The God
glory to The God, The only King, The Owner of existence
and peace to you all
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Peace...
@ TF.
I see you as a kind hearted person.. I am not going to respond your repeated emotions... Only thing I can advise you is keep on asking for guidance which is truth... Ask your creator to expose the truth in day light... Coz you say you don't know you are guided or not or believer or not Muslim or not... You want to die in ambiguity? ..
Don't worry about people what people say of masjid... What is right for you take it. If God guides you He will only guide you with truth soon or later.... If not totally lost...
But you should note this Ramadhan, salat, masjid haram, Zakath, ummi and many a verses only very much straightforward when Quran revealed.. But for us needs exploration... Coz time elapsed, language changed, Satan influenced and things are hidden... So without exploring if anyone can follow Quran that's worthy answering to God..
Explore dear... Our emotions are useless.. if you happen to go Janna and your loved ones not.. We can't say to God I will never enter until you allow my loved ones as well to Janna.. ..
Real believers never go and say to any kafir, Munafiq, mushrik etc.. "You are a damn kafir".. Why should they? I have in my entire life never called anyone as such.. But those who follow hadith (Sunni Muslim) calls us kafir just coz we follow Quran and that's what God ordered to and for not following hadith which has no base according to Quran... Not only they call us kaafir face to face but they unfortunately call us iblees and Satan and even call us destined for hell.. But I never call them by anything.. But I definitely know what they follow is wrong according to Quran... Coz their actions reflects what they follow.. Coz they don't follow Quran ..
But knowing them is not difficult and sometimes useful for our life to keep away from them and their deception ..
My friends specially budhists they mock the word Allah.. And openly call He didn't create anything it's all craps of Quran.. So do i say to them " you kafir "... I know they are.. What I wish is guidance for them and debate with Quran till they get away speechless .. That's all I don't worry about them.. Coz it's God's business why they live so.. ..
We are human.. Whether hadith follower or christian or budhist or Hindu or jews what ever. We all share the world together ... Believers are tested by having to live with disbelievers.. that's why disbelivers don't share Janna... Never forget some disbelievers accept at certain point the God and His way.. Haven't you seen those themselves call they are DISBELIVERS (kafir) in God... Budhist clergies in our country publicly preach saying according to budhism if anyone claims there is God he is no more a budhist.. So according to Quran they are kaafir.. And accept that there is No God.. So what's the big issue in it.. It's his path.. It's just a word Arabic kufar to disbelive... I kufar/ disbelieve man landed on moon.. So I am a kafir for those who mumin (believer) on man landed on moon... What's wrong they call me kaafir of moon landing.. What's wrong i call them mumin of manlanding on moon.. Kafir of God and his verses.. Believer of God and His verses.. Just as simple as that..Right path is right path.. Only one path...
There is criteria for belief.. That's why prophet Nuh said there is no one to believe anymore ... 7126-27 indicates Nuh knew believers to take them on board to ship and leave the disbelievers on the ground... How did he know? That's coz there is a criteria to become a believer.. And nuh knew them.. Don't say nuh would have boarded by mistake kaafir as well and could have missed some believers too..
Finally there could be assumptions within believers who take Quran as guidance... Coz they explore... Note they all say as a note verify... So verify..
For example I do not believe earth is spinning and man never landed on moon according to Quran but believers like Layth brother Waqas do believe it seems as man landed on moon and earth is spinning ... Does this mean we are disbelievers of God and His verses since we contradict .. Did we reach for any other books to explore it.. I remained only with quran to nullify it..and they bring the same book to justify it.. God will He will expose what is truth..
That's why I said we have explanation to God on the day of ressurection that we took only Your book.. Our knowledge made us to assume things in the manner it is not coz we wanted to deny You intentionally .. Our Lord.. But if one follows Hadith what's his explanation? Who authorized it? Did Quran authorised following hadith? So why did you follow? They will only blame their leaders..
True Believers have no leaders but Quran..Verify.. That's it..
Just verify below verses as well for a change.. .1005 "It is He who made the sun a radiance, and the moon a light, and determined it by stations/
phases, that you might know the number of the years and the reckoning. God created that not save with the truth, distinguishing the signs to a people who know."God said created moon phases and not for sun or Earth phases.. Unfortunately Earth has phases according to science.. ... That's why I don't trust them and trust Quran.. Hope my fellow believers also ponder..
From the day God created earth and heavens 12 full cycle of moon... In our language 12 months.. But unfortunately Earth has full cycle..
2189 "They ask you about crescent / hilal.. " Unfortunately earth has hilal..
Verify and follow what is right..
Why do earth need hilal? Probably we gonna live on moon in future.. While God promises we live on earth and die here..Believers are believers as long as they adhere to Quran alone... But knowledge within Quran may differ person to person.. Like I mentioned above..
Refer this topic if anyone interested in this..
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610127.0
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Salam Good Logic,
Here is what Qoran advises
Do not call any peaceful person "you are not a believer", if your aim is to correct them, then do it " Bi Al Hikmati Wa Al Mawidati Al Hasanati".With good intention.
Of course you should uphold the truth and be honest with it.First of all, the Quran does not say what you have said
"O you who believe, if you strike in the cause of God, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to he who greets you with peace "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God graced you, so investigate carefully. God is expert over what you do." (494)
The verse quoted is from a military expedition where the prophet is on the offensive and he is told by God that if someone comes to him and says "peace unto you", then he should not assume that person is a "hostile" enemy, but that he should "investigate".
The issue is what is the benefit of calling a kafir even if they are one?
Do you think when God says in chapter 109 "Say O you rejectors, I do not serve what you serve..." that He is addressing nobody? Or, do you think the people of Mecca knew who the audience was and the audience knew who they were?
It is not my role to tell you who is who, but you should know that there are some people out there who will work diligently to make you fail for calling to God alone and will even persecute or try to harm you if they have the opportunity...
We can all sing Kumbaya and hold hands, but I fear that is not the reality of this world.
There is a difference between knowing that certain people are following traditions and false religions and being hostile with them by calling them kafirs..
We should give the example by being peaceful,but honest with our views and inviting them amicably to reflect., unless of course they turn away/refuse . Then one should ignore and walk away amicably.Where on earth did you get the notion from any posts made here about "being hostile" to rejectors?
We all work and live with rejectors and mushriks and manafiqs and muslims and mumins...This is the nature of people that they will gravitate towards one of the 5-types.
Knowing what type you are dealing with will give you clarity and understanding, especially in light of the Quran. For example, a munafiq hides his/her disbelief, so they will always be agreeable with the believers and pose as one of them (which is why they get the worst level in Hell), yet they will slip in saying certain phrases which stem from their lack of faith...A mushrik is someone who loves God, but loves others with Him and will always bring his/her idol into the conversation and will even take religious laws and rules from them...A kaffir is one who rejects outright, be it the rejection of God, His laws, or His messengers. This is the most active and hostile type towards believers as the clash of ideas cannot be reconciled.
Now, I repeat for clarity you can be friends with ALL these types and you can live and work with them in harmony and peace. However, when things go south, remember that the lack of law and order reveals peoples innermost selves, and the behavior of outwardly peaceful people in Rawanda or Darfur, or Bosnia or Iraq or Germany (WWII) or anywhere was a confirmation of what God is warning us about.
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Salam TF,
so believer/submitter is defined to be someone who believes in The God and upholds Quran only whilst hadith followers are disbelievers?
Submitter is anyone who submits to God and does good work (4133). Upholding the Quran is not a prerequisite.
you need to understand what shirk means. you think shirk is openly being polytheistic. well no.
Shirk is a constant that needs to be worked on avoiding until the day we die (hence the prayer of the prophets is always "our Lord, let us die as submitters". Some people are lazy and continue shirk when it is pointed out, while others are diligent and make sure to repent or change their ways if they feel they have erred (like Solomon with the horses or David with the judgement of the shepherds).
the devil perhaps also makes “submitters” (who updhold Quran only) believe that prayer is not physical, that they do not need to bow down to The God and prostrate.
the devil could also make it seem to submitters that ramadan is just a couple of days and not a month, or that there is no masjid to make pilgrimage to.
and yet the “submitters” will think they are on the right path even though they dont pray or make pilgrimage etc. remember The God gave permission (as nothing happens without His permission) to the devil to make people’s works seem good and attractive to them.Says the person who rushes into the Quran thinking he knows it all, when it should have been done slowly (20114).
God tells man to "think/reflect/analyze/examine." So, this is your chance to do so.
I will point you to a nice article that shows the distinction between "Muslim" & "Mumin". You will need this information as you keep bringing up the subjects of Salat & Fasting in the wrong context and for the wrong audience (not your fault as the Sunnis/Shia were the ones who first did this shuffle)
https//www.free-minds.org/mumins
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Peace Layth.
Let us take your points one at a time
1 your quote First of all, the Quran does not say what you have saidMy take; it says many more like what I said.about being fair, being sure, being forgiver, being nice, being peaceful, not calling anyone if they are peaceful....Or do you want me to give you the verses? You are a student of Qoran I am sure you can find them .I will provide them ., if you wish.
Just because GOD can distinguish and always justly, GOD has the complete knowledge of our innermost thoughts.We need to be careful and give folks the benefit of a doubt, we can easily be unjust to people.Resorting to patience and forgiveness reflects a true strength of character.
2-your quote We can all sing Kumbaya and hold hands, but I fear that is not the reality of this world..
No. We are not each others Wakils. Who is asking you to give up your values? GOD is asking us to live the example not just say it in a nice manner and certainly to treat all people nicely and fairly unless they agress against us or try to stop our freedom of choice.
Remember GOD was giving authorisation and starting a movement that was supported and guided by GOD. Who has the authority now to carry on with this?
We can only pass on the message in a peaceful manner and with a good example.
If you feel GOD is asking you to do it differently ,then you have the freedom to do it your way or even call it GOD s way.
As for people being all sorts ,that is not relevant if we trust in GOD and follow the straight path under GOD s protection. We should not fear anything or act out of fear and assumptions.3- your quote Where on earth did you get the notion from any posts made here about "being hostile" to rejectors?
Do you think I just posted my take out of the blue? I was answering jkhan, just read again and you will find why.
Even then, I was advising and being general. I was not accusing or blaming anyone.. I will be going against my own advice brother!How can we have a better argument if we do the same as others that do not follow GOD s message? Should we not follow the best path instructed to us by GOD in Qoran?
Of course one can do as they please ,follow Qoran as they understand it and ignore what I say. I am not expecting anything from anyone they do not want to do or agree with me.4- Your quote Now, I repeat for clarity you can be friends with ALL these types and you can live and work with them in harmony and peace. However, when things go south, remember that the lack of law and order reveals peoples innermost selves, and the behavior of outwardly peaceful people in Rawanda or Darfur, or Bosnia or Iraq or Germany (WWII) or anywhere was a confirmation of what God is warning us about.
I will also clarify
You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance, and disregard the ignorant.Since we are always in contact with fellow humans, it is likely to encounter a wide range of defective behavior and negative traits . That is the norm with hunam beings.. This generates hurt which could escalate to various emotional and psychological problems specially for those who are aware and appreciative of their God-given rights and those who are blessed with thoughtful hearts and high standards of morality. We need to learn to practice forgiveness and replace the negative vibes by positive ones towards all people who do us no harm.
Forgiveness is sufficiently highlighted by our Merciful God, and all what we need to do is to grasp the correct understanding, the guidelines and the consequences of this practice in order to apply it comfortably and firmly and benefit from its positive outcome
But of course we also need to stand up for our right and defendind against aggression,
And even when we stand for our rights, our strength of character to pardon and let go of the pain comes naturally as an outcome. Standing for our rights is a command from God to all believers. In no way, God would allow the believers to be apathetic towards aggression and injustice is clear to me in Qoran.
However there is no need to distrust people as a habit. We must be friendly, peaceful , helpful and loving to all.
For me , I found the worst enemy is myself. I have enough to be going on with trying to do what is right.
Thanks brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
salam jkhan
hope all is well with you
we should not make any assumptions and think just brcause we believe inThe God and uphold Quran as the only truth that we are guided
we do not agree on what shirk means
also do not assume you will be given the opportunity to plead your case on day of judgement and say “i only followed Quran”. Did The God say we could plead our cases? if so please show me the verse
and even if you plead, The God does whatever He wantsThere are not many ways but one. example prayer is either physical or not. those who uphold Quran and believe in One God but do not pray physically, are they guided? does not The God say to maintain our prayers, and that even at times of war we should pray? and that a group should pray whilst another should be of watch and then vice verse (isnt that yet another proof prayer is physical) The God guides whom He wants and He also knows who desrves to be guided.
regarding verses with nuh you mentioned, i do not think it is what you said. nuh does not know who is a believer and who is not on earth except from his people (as obviously the believers boarded the ship with him). did nuh not plead with The God for his son? the verses you mention in my opinion serve to tell us that the flood was global and not local as nuh asks The God to not leave any disbelievers on earth
you do not believe man was on the moon, why? have you spoken with those who claim to have landed on the main or organized it? you assume no man landed on moon from other assumptions (such as the issue with the flag etc) again my point is that we should not assume things
salam layth
hope all is well with you too
i do not follow what sunni shia do for salat or ramadan but my understanding of them through the Quran
i honestly absolutely do not understand your definition of salat or ramadan and why you also made assumptions from your article about ramadan being in winter and only ten days
i do not think i know it all, i perhaps know nothing. that is the point am trying to get accross. no one knows who is guided and we should stop assuming we are guided. and to also stop innovating
i gave my opinion about salat and ramadan etc and you give/gave yours (in your articles as well as the forum and this thread) how am i the “i know it all” type and you no? and how am i the i know it all if i keep saying we should not assume we are guided and you assume to be guided whilst alll the others including hadith believers to not be guided?
i only share what i believe and call on people here who believe prayer not physical to maintain their physical prayers and stop with the assumptions
if you may, please prove to me salat is not physical using the verses and i will prove to you the contrary
same for ramadan being ten days and in winter (if you want to do so of course)
anyways, i reflect and look at the verses and take them at face value, i do not jump to conclusions just to be different from sunni or shia for the sake of being different like i felt some people do in this website
thanx for the article )
peace
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Peace...
1... I will make assumptions.. And explore QURAN as long as I need clarity and guidance... Is that an issue for you? You want me to do what you say.. "pls don't make assumptions"..
I am responsible for my life... I need to explore.. In explorations assumptions are vital.. Bit within Quran..2... I don't want to agree with you about shirk.. Quran is clear about what is shirk. If doubt go re-read all shirk verses..
3... I wish I don't need to plead with God about anything on the day of ressurection... Those who plead could only be the misfortunes.. So I don't need your imaginary assumption that I do plead ... I wish God judge me with what I have done as He has promised in His book. My God never break His promise... God will give the record to me and I know what I have done and He won't miss anything in that book without being recorded.. I know what I have done. So don't worry about me.. I don't know my future in current life .. God bless me to be better than past..
Don't think we don't get opportunity to talk with God.. Coz He says every soul will be questioned on what they did... Harder the questions for disbelievers... Questions needs to answered.. I know I have surrendered to the one who created me..
And I have believed in His promise in Quran.. He says " why should I punish the believers ".. Cannot remember verse number.. I am not serving a God who is injustice and promise breaker... I am serving the one the most merciful and most Just...God does what He wants but He cannot break the promise that He made to men and jinn... He is true and not a liar..4.. Salat in Quran has many meaning .one of them is PHYSICAL PRAYER... Just go ask anyone who says it's not physically done.. Not me... Coz I do stand three times a day and what I do... It's my contact with God..
5....i know very well nuh pleaded to God for his son.. Nuh was human.. And how can he see his son dying at least not calling him to the ship.. But God clearly advised not to disobey Him.. Then He understood..
For me.. The deluge was worldwide.. But on the earth only Nuh's community lived.. So it was not an issue for him..6...dont assume and say that I assume this and that while you don't know what I assume..
Man never landed on moon.. I say it coz it is not a place to land.. Moon has its own light and it is not created in a way that we could land.. Quran verses clear moon has phases.. And these phases has no connection with sun.. God changes its shape until it return to appear as date stalk.. ... And I don't have time to find out when they land on any other so called moons... How many moons God has created? You think I am fool to trust them whenever they land on each and every imaginary moons and planets.. While God says he created Moon and not MoonS.. God says He created sun a radiant light and moon a light in the sky.. May be God forgot earth is also a light in the sky it may be forgotton that there more bigger and larger objects than this sun and moon to be called radiant to sun in the sky..Out of Quran if you need explanation. For me moon is plasma.. So don't try to near it ...
I wish I can speak to them and ask what I have to ask? You seem you are just a little joker.. I have spoken to them.. Ha ..ha ha
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salam jkhan
i would like to please ask you a question (for my knowledge)
you pray 3 times a day
please explain to me what are the three prayers you do and how you got to that conclusion? (do you recite Quran or not during prayer?)my understanding of prayer is (1) from sunset to dusk and throughout night, (2) before fajr, (3) and day of gathering
please share your understanding
thank uuu
peace
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salam jkhan
i would like to please ask you a question (for my knowledge)
you pray 3 times a day
please explain to me what are the three prayers you do and how you got to that conclusion? (do you recite Quran or not during prayer?)my understanding of prayer is (1) from sunset to dusk and throughout night, (2) before fajr, (3) and day of gathering
please share your understanding
thank uuu
peace
Dear brother sister..
Why do you ask from someine whome you keep calling full of assumptions. Will my assumptions suit you?
anyhow it's God's will you asked..
So go through any of the salt topic I have debated.. Honestly I cannot remember under which topic I did.. But I hope in many..
Search if you are interested... So you will get what I practice when it comes to Salat...Is what you follow an assumption of yours when it comes to Salat deviating from mainstream...
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salam
i asked you in hopes you tell me using verses as proofs and not assumptions
and no, i followed verses and not assumptions
okay thanx
peace brother or sister
