Was Moses in Egypt?????
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Peace all,
No it makes no difference at all.
I personnaly think that in the Reading God is intentionnaly vague on geographical location and these stories are but (real) examples for humanity, these stories can be translocated anywhere on earth where any king/governor could oppress people for their origin/religion e.g. Hitler and nazism in Germany, Appartheid in South Africa, Arabs in Palestine etc...
Peace
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As-salam,
Yes Brother, I agree.
I think They are Multiple meanings in the Quran.
Yes, I think there really was a Specific Pharoah mentioned in the Quran and a Specific Muhammad and Musa...
But I also believe that at the SAME time, Pharoah can also be Modern Pharoah.Just Like there really was a place called Babylon (original)...But also today there are many Cities/Systems that resemble and Embody the Attributes of Babylon thus making them "Modern Day Babylon".
Personnaly, I Do believe in Emulation of the Prophets...But not to the extant of the Sunnis and Shia..
For example, I believe there really was a Moses (pbuh), But I also feel that at certain times in my life and in your life.....we are Moses.
(not LITERALLY) but Symbolicly. We share some of the similar trails that Moses went through and share the similair exodus.
Emulation meaning, Every Prophet has a different story of how they came to Islam and their trials... We as Believers Sometimes share or try to share their traits and charactoristics. Sometimes we even share their Similar struggles.Sometimes we are Muhammad. (agin not LITERALLY THEE Muhammad) but symbolically represent Muhammad by enduring some of the trials he went through and his quest for freedom, and submission to Allah.
(That type of emulation)Every Generation has its Pharoah and its Babylon. Its the Prinicap that matters. D
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Peace,
I do not reject this fact
"Those 3,300+ year old tablets confirm Egypt was known by that name in the ancient world according to other empires (Hittites, Canaanites, Assyrians, etc) and themselves as they still are called by that name to this day."
Tablets are mobile stuff (normal there were letters), they can be found in Egypt but they can be from anywhere else.
Why are they written in Akkadian and not in anciant egyptian? Because there were send from Assyria, Palestine, Babylonia etc...
Taking that into account how do you know "sar Misrii" is pointing to the "King of Egypt" and not to any other "little king" in the region! Is it because there were found in Egypt?But the question remaining is
Is MISR exclusively used for Egypt and no other place?
Regards
Yes, that's to whom the letters were being addressed (interesting character)...
Rebel Pharaoh Sneak Peek
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0KlSDNmPgEAkenaten The religious Revolution
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbBbrhQ4WQA&feature=relatedNice song...
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSWyAK5NjW0 -
Its amazing that there have been many discoveries in Eygpt, but no where has there been anything writen on the so called isrealie slaves that did all the work there. I think the only mention of Isreal by name was a tablet which mentioned isreal conquered, which I saw on a documentary. Can it be that Egyptians did not want to document a dark past?
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Thank you herbman for great info.. All those facts proves Moses was not in Egypt IMO. Actually God is giving us very clear clues for finding the proper info about story of Moses in Quran.
Also, these facts clearing that why Egypt Kingdom continued to date of Romans..instead of ended via river flood much before Christ.
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Peace herbman,
Quran 8910
And with Pharaoh, Lord of Stakes?Quran 3812
Before them (were many who) rejected messengers, the People of Noah, and `Ad, and Pharaoh, the Lord of Stakes.God knows what a pyramid is and what a stake is!!!!
please see persepolis stakes/pillars
http//www.hansrossel.com/fotos/fotografie/iran/ir_d5.htm
I don't think God referred Pharaoh as the Lord of Stakes to the pyramids. It was to the Obelisk which can only be found in Egypt and they resemble giant stakes.
http//www.egipto.com/obeliscos/biblio.html
The hieroglyphs inscribed on the obelisk were the title and the name of the ruling pharaoh.
http//www.jimloy.com/hiero/usrtsn0.htm
Hope this help.
Peace peace
tauhid101. -
I don't think God referred Pharaoh as the Lord of Stakes to the pyramids. It was to the Obelisk which can only be found in Egypt and they resemble giant stakes.
Only one obelisk could be assigned to a pharaoh, thus we can't assign all obelisks into one pharaoh's name. Calling a pharaoh as a "owner of obeliskS" is not logic.
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Peace exodus,
Only one obelisk could be assigned to a pharaoh, thus we can't assign all obelisks into one pharaoh's name. Calling a pharaoh as a "owner of obeliskS" is not logic.
Do you mean the verse 8910? Definitely we could not assign all the obelisks into one pharaoh's name. The word "pharaoh" was a title, like a "king" or a "emperor" it's not the ruler's name and from different dynasty
Pharaoh Tuthmosis I, Karnak Temple, Luxor
Pharaoh Ramses II, Luxor Temple
Pharaoh Hatshepsut, Karnak Temple, Luxor
Pharaoh Senusret I, Al-Masalla area of Al-Matariyyah district in Heliopolis, Cairo
Pharaoh Ramses III, Luxor Museum
Pharaoh Ramses II, Gezira Island, Cairo, 20.4 m
Pharaoh Ramses II, Cairo International Airport, 16.97 m
Pharaoh Seti II, Karnak Temple, Luxor, 7 m
Pharaoh Senusret I, Faiyum (ancient site of Crocodilopolis), 12.9 m.http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obelisk#Egyptian
Now if only we can ascertain which pharaoh was with Haman and Qarun? Doesn't the obelisk looks like a giant stake to you, exodus? The truth is there in Egypt for thousand of years. It is not about whether it's logical or not but only the Truth from God.
If and when you accept this to be the Truth from God, then you might want to read the "discoveries" by Ron Wyatt
http//www.wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing.htm
Peace peace
tauhid101. -
Peace exodus,
Do you mean the verse 8910? Definitely we could not assign all the obelisks into one pharaoh's name. The word "pharaoh" was a title, like a "king" or a "emperor" it's not the ruler's name and from different dynasty
It's highly possible that "Fraun" is a proper name of a king instead of a title. We have no any strong evidence for assuming "Fraun" as a title just by Qur'an.
Peace.
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It's highly possible that "Fraun" is a proper name of a king instead of a title. We have no any strong evidence for assuming "Fraun" as a title just by Qur'an.
Peace.
Did Allah have to put in every slight detail of what was well known at the time? Pharaoh of Egypt has been a title for the king of Egypt since before Moses. There is plenty enough strong evidence for that! There is also evidence in the previous books Allah tells you He also authored before Quran. Quran is not a stand alone revelation and that is proven by the many references to what is in those other revelations before it.
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Did Allah have to put in every slight detail of what was well known at the time? Pharaoh of Egypt has been a title for the king of Egypt since before Moses. There is plenty enough strong evidence for that! There is also evidence in the previous books Allah tells you He also authored before Quran. Quran is not a stand alone revelation and that is proven by the many references to what is in those other revelations before it.
We have two of choices
- Describe traditions using God's words
- Describe God's words using traditions
I generally choose first one.
The Fire; they are exposed to it morning and evening; and on the day when the Hour upriseth (it is said) Cause Pharaoh's folk to enter the most awful doom.
If "Pharaoh" is just a title, can you confirm that all generations of Pharaoh deserved most awful doom?
Peace.
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We have two of choices
- Describe traditions using God's words
- Describe God's words using traditions
I generally choose first one.
The Fire; they are exposed to it morning and evening; and on the day when the Hour upriseth (it is said) Cause Pharaoh's folk to enter the most awful doom.
If "Pharaoh" is just a title, can you confirm that all generations of Pharaoh deserved most awful doom?
Peace.
no of course not, can you confirm that all desert arabs are worst in hypocrisy?
It is speaking about a time in history that was past when Quran was revealed, it is talking about those that worshipped pharaoh as a God, all pharoahs, not just one. It is a title and that verse is talking about the one that was in the time of Moses which was a different pharaoh to the one in Chapter 12 (called the king of Egypt), which can be found in Genesis chapter 40. -
Did Allah have to put in every slight detail of what was well known at the time? Pharaoh of Egypt has been a title for the king of Egypt since before Moses. There is plenty enough strong evidence for that! There is also evidence in the previous books Allah tells you He also authored before Quran. Quran is not a stand alone revelation and that is proven by the many references to what is in those other revelations before it.
Salam,
I would be very interested by your thought and would like you to explain this fact
{We thus took vengeance upon them by drowning them in a fast current (of water), for their denial of Our signs, and their disregard of them * And We let the people who were persecuted inherit the east of the land and the west of it which We have blessed. And the good word of your Lord was completed towards the Children of Israel for their patience; and We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people were doing, and what they contrived.}....
The above verses are telling us, in words that are as clear a the sun, that the Israelites INHERITED the land AFTER pharaoh's reign came to a watery end.
Answer me this Is there any proof od the Israelites ever having ruled Egypt???
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Salam,
I would be very interested by your thought and would like you to explain this fact
{We thus took vengeance upon them by drowning them in a fast current (of water), for their denial of Our signs, and their disregard of them * And We let the people who were persecuted inherit the east of the land and the west of it which We have blessed. And the good word of your Lord was completed towards the Children of Israel for their patience; and We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people were doing, and what they contrived.}....The above verses are telling us, in words that are as clear a the sun, that the Israelites INHERITED the land AFTER pharaoh's reign came to a watery end.
Answer me this Is there any proof od the Israelites ever having ruled Egypt???
The land that was blessed was Israel. This watery end was not the end of Pharaoh, only of that one, there were more after and Cleopatra was the last known Pharaoh. It was after Moses freeing his people that the revelation came to him of the 10 commandments on Mount Sinai and Israel and Egypt have fought over this land which is to the west of Israel and now part of Egypt. Moses was in Sinai for 40 years, this was Israeli land at that time.
Prior to this Joseph (father of Jacob (Jacob was later named Israel)) had been a high official in Egypt and is thought to be the Imhotep that saved Egypt from the famine years. There has always been history between Egypt and Israel and you have to bear in mind that borders now are not the same as borders then. Egypt was much larger than it is now.
Sorry if that doenst answer your question, got to go out so it was quick. peace
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no of course not, can you confirm that all desert arabs are worst in hypocrisy?
If God Says so, what can I say additionally? I think there is no one here to claiming that "badawii" is a proper name instead of just a title. Otherwise, deserving "most awful doom" is not comparable such a thing like being "worst in hypocrisy".
It is speaking about a time in history that was past when Quran was revealed, it is talking about those that worshipped pharaoh as a God, all pharoahs, not just one. It is a title and that verse is talking about the one that was in the time of Moses which was a different pharaoh to the one in Chapter 12 (called the king of Egypt), which can be found in Genesis chapter 40.
Deserving "most awful doom" implies on me that someone have to made such a thing like who named as "Fraun" in Qur'an. "Most awful doom" is a special situation, then this special situation must point someone who have to be a special person. Fraun was insist on destruction even warned by a messenger of God with biggest visible miracles. Thus, makes Fraun has a special situation for deserving "most awful doom" then other kings.
This result totally related with pure logic beyond of traditions. Logic is the most effective for understanding efforts of Qur'an. We are responsible from our logic beyond of traditions. Jewish/Christian traditions are most effective barriers standing front of realizing true aspect of Moses story.
Additionally, please read the topic from beginning, then its possible to you have to see why "Misr" translated mistakenly as "Egypt" in Qur'an.
Peace.
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If God Says so, what can I say additionally? I think there is no one here to claiming that "badawii" is a proper name instead of just a title.
there are hundreds of Egyptian here with the name Badawi
Otherwise, deserving "most awful doom" is not comparable such a thing like being "worst in hypocrisy".
both said by allah regarding a group of people at a certain time.Deserving "most awful doom" implies on me that someone have to made such a thing like who named as "Fraun" in Qur'an. "Most awful doom" is a special situation, then this special situation must point someone who have to be a special person. Fraun was insist on destruction even warned by a messenger of God with biggest visible miracles. Thus, makes Fraun has a special situation for deserving "most awful doom" then other kings.
There are many references to 'most awful doom' in Quran regarding many types of people.This result totally related with pure logic beyond of traditions. Logic is the most effective for understanding efforts of Qur'an. We are responsible from our logic beyond of traditions. Jewish/Christian traditions are most effective barriers standing front of realizing true aspect of Moses story.
I agree, use someAdditionally, please read the topic from beginning, then its possible to you have to see why "Misr" translated mistakenly as "Egypt" in Qur'an.
Peace.
Do some research. Misr is Egypt, it is the Arabic name for Egypt. England is the English name for England and Inglaterra is the Arabic name for England. Lebanon is the English for Lebanon, Libnan is the Arabic. America is English for America, Amrika is Arabic.
Egypt or Misr or Mizraim it is still th same land.
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there are hundreds of Egyptian here with the name Badawi
Please don't act as a child. You know what i mean exactly.
both said by allah regarding a group of people at a certain time.
I just trying tell you to we don't have strong evidence for assuming "Fraun" as a people. We can assume "badawi" as a people because of evidence of linguistics.
There are many references to 'most awful doom' in Quran regarding many types of people.
We are talking about generations of Pharaoh. If paharaoh is a people, then all of them have to be warned by God's messenger, witnessed to God's miracle then punished by God. Otherwise, deserving same awful doom as Moses's Pharaoh is NOT FAIR.
Do some research.
Ok..Let's get start here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599235.msg236636#msg236636
Peace.
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Peace,
It's highly possible that "Fraun" is a proper name of a king instead of a title. We have no any strong evidence for assuming "Fraun" as a title just by Qur'an.
Peace.
There is no mention in the Quran that Firaun is a proper name or a title and God did not mention the name of that particular Firaun or Pharaoh during Moses. But there are plenty of archaeological evidences that Firaun in Arabic is the Pharaoh in English of Egypt.
If you read the articles of Ron Wyatt on his website, the chariot wheels they found at the crossing of the Red Sea were confirmed from the 18th Dynasty and further to their research, they found that there is a land bridge under the Red Sea at that particular place of crossing.
http//wyattmuseum.com/red-sea-crossing-05.htm
Whats important here is that Moses was in Egypt as per topic.
Peace.
