Was Moses in Egypt?????
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All the kings in Egypt are the prophets, all of them, history has been modified to change the future , byzoroastrians and by satanists allies
Ra Msses is Moses
Isis , was femisnised , for Isa , Maryamon, is miriam , horonetop is Haroun etc... the history of the prophets was twisted to make them look like a sufi religious rebels who were only bothering the people who were living good, with rituels.
the last mesenger is the last King Horemheb , is Mohamed Twisted so no one will notice, u can see even the pictures of Mohamed in musuems with a twisted name, and the illuminati proud for making him one of their people while creating for us a personnage from the desert.
Here you can see the picture of Mohamed, and how he looked like , translate from frensh, and you see the similarities, even though history of archeologists is twisted and innacurate, but the similarities are stricking,
no parents, a sheperd when he was a kid, revolutionised the religion after people were lost in misery, made wars, lost one, had two wives, took over the power, became the general , and the ruler, and in his time Egypt get to the peak of civilisation, and the best is , he didn't have kids, and built a temple in medinet as a governement central etc... read it
Hebreu language gave biirth to arabic language, it is the language of Bani Israel, when arabic started, meaning hebreu Evolved, that's all, modern hebreu is a fabrication. if you read them in arabic, they sound the same, and write the same, except switching one single letter. r b became b r
Mecca is called in Egypt Malqata
Yathrib is called in Egypt Athribis , noerth of malkata 300km
Medina is called Medinet e first temple built by the first monotheist religion in Egypt, by Akhenaton , there is no P in egyptian, this name sound like Abraham The house that was built , called the temple of Aton, sounds like Adam, the quran say it's the first house in becca. the name was twisted to "karnak " the house built by Akhenaton didn't have a ceiling, the lat king of the synasty built the ceiling.The temple of solomon is the pyramid with the missing cap, they hid it from everyone just to keep out the history of the messengers
the statues built for solomon are still standing, 46 meters high, plus the bassins mentioned in the quran.the queen of Sheeba came from the south, Sudan, and that was an extension of Egypt. and that was the land of the hijra of the companions of mohamed, they didn't cross thousands of KMs of the red sea, they walked there.
The verse over it are 19 , is an image in the walls of Egypt with 19 angles over hell, and that image is also in the book of the dead, that is why allah said , this number is so people of the book will know this is from god.
That's interesting. Would be good if you could create a separate topic expanding on what you wrote together with relevant links.
PEACE
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I posted this in a different thread, but it applies here as well.
As far as the story of Exodus goes, it is easily verifiable and there is much evidence that supports it. If you are interested, read "The Mystery of Israel in Ancient Egypt The Exodus in the Qur'an, the Old Testament, Archaeological Finds, and Historical Sources ". Here are some quick facts that you should consider.
-The "Israel Stele" of Merneptah mentions Israel, and it refers to them as a group of people, not a nation.
-Unlike the biblical version, the Quran implies that the group that left with Moses was a rather small group. The bible claims it was 2-3 million.
-Unlike the Bible, the Quran says that Moses fled with his people and was not allowed to leave.
-Unlike the Bible, the Quran implies that there was only one Pharaoh, not two.
-Unlike the Bible, the Quran states that God preserved the body of the Pharaoh. The fact that pharaohs were mummified was lost at the time of prophet Muhammad, so for the Quran to claim that God had somehow preserved the Pharaoh so he could be an example to people is certainly something to consider. Also, this statement is not found in the Bible, so if Muhammad was just copying it, this was a rather bizarre and accurate statement of him to make. The Quran mentions many nations and people being destroyed, but the Pharaoh is the only one who is said to have been preserved.
-Hamman is a clear reference to the high priest of Yamnu (also spelled Amon, Amoun, Amen, and rarely Imen or Yamun, Greek Ammon, and Hammon). Note that the Pharaoh consults Hamman for religious matters in the Quran. He also asks Hamman to make him buildings. The construction of religious temples was done under the directions of the priests of Amun in ancient Egypt. The Bible doesn't mention any such figure and the knowledge of the religious courts of ancient Egypt was lost at the time of Muhammad. In fact most knowledge of the customs and language of ancient Egypt was lost by 300 BCE.
-The Pharaoh asked Hamman to build him a building so he could climb up there and see this God of Moses. The idea of climbing a high place to speak with gods is in fact what the ancient Egyptians believed. I've seen this idea mentioned in several documentaries on the History Channel and other channels.
-In the Quran, the Pharaoh keeps saying that he thinks that Moses just wants to drive the people out of the land. Why does he keep saying this? It is probably because not too long ago the Hyksos who were a semetic people like Moses had driven the Egyptians out of lower Egypt where the Pharoah now lived. The Hyksos were defeated and kicked out of Egypt out only a few generations before Ramesses, so he feared that there would again by an invasion by semites.
-The Pharaoh is called Firaun al-awtad, which is often translated as the Pharaoh of might or the Pharah of the stakes, but when read in context, it is probably saying the Pharoah of high/many buildings. Who was the Pharaoh who was obsessed with building? Ramesses II. All the things noted above also point to him being THE pharoah, and yes we do have his body.
-The "Israel Stele" was completed under Ramesses successor Merneptah soon after the death of his father. In it he claims that the tribe of Israel is destroyed. Clearly this wasn't the case. The Pharaoh's would often claim victories when really they had lost. This is apparent in some of the victories Ramesses II claimed because we also have records from the opposing side (the Hittites).
-The Quran says that the Pharaoh declared himself to be THE God (7924). Although Pharoahs were considered divine, very few of them actually made this claim. As it happens, Ramesses II did declare himself to be God. The inscription of him declaring this is found at his temple at Abu Simbel. Again, the Pharaoh is the only one that the Quran says made such a claim and no one could have known this at the time of Muhammad.
As far as the location of the real Mount Sinai, I think it has been discovered. Everything is there. A giant stone altar with engravings of the Egyptian bovine god Apsis, the cave of Elijah, the bitter springs, and even till this day quails descend by it in large groups which is what the Israelites were supposed to have eaten. It is located in modern day Saudi Arabia.
http//www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htmI think the story of the exodus is actually one of the greatest signs that the Quran is indeed divine. There are so many things in there that Muhammad just could not have known.
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Peace.
This thread hasn't been visited for quite some time, but I just came upon it, and I wanted to expound on some of the points made concerning the Israelites being in ancient Egypt (Khemet)...
-The "Israel Stele" of Merneptah mentions Israel, and it refers to them as a group of people, not a nation.
-Unlike the biblical version, the Quran implies that the group that left with Moses was a rather small group. The bible claims it was 2-3 million.
-Unlike the Bible, the Quran says that Moses fled with his people and was not allowed to leave.
-Unlike the Bible, the Quran implies that there was only one Pharaoh, not two.
-Unlike the Bible, the Quran states that God preserved the body of the Pharaoh. The fact that pharaohs were mummified was lost at the time of prophet Muhammad, so for the Quran to claim that God had somehow preserved the Pharaoh so he could be an example to people is certainly something to consider. Also, this statement is not found in the Bible, so if Muhammad was just copying it, this was a rather bizarre and accurate statement of him to make. The Quran mentions many nations and people being destroyed, but the Pharaoh is the only one who is said to have been preserved.
-Hamman is a clear reference to the high priest of Yamnu (also spelled Amon, Amoun, Amen, and rarely Imen or Yamun, Greek Ammon, and Hammon). Note that the Pharaoh consults Hamman for religious matters in the Quran. He also asks Hamman to make him buildings. The construction of religious temples was done under the directions of the priests of Amun in ancient Egypt. The Bible doesn't mention any such figure and the knowledge of the religious courts of ancient Egypt was lost at the time of Muhammad. In fact most knowledge of the customs and language of ancient Egypt was lost by 300 BCE.
-The Pharaoh asked Hamman to build him a building so he could climb up there and see this God of Moses. The idea of climbing a high place to speak with gods is in fact what the ancient Egyptians believed. I've seen this idea mentioned in several documentaries on the History Channel and other channels.
-In the Quran, the Pharaoh keeps saying that he thinks that Moses just wants to drive the people out of the land. Why does he keep saying this? It is probably because not too long ago the Hyksos who were a semetic people like Moses had driven the Egyptians out of lower Egypt where the Pharoah now lived. The Hyksos were defeated and kicked out of Egypt out only a few generations before Ramesses, so he feared that there would again by an invasion by semites.
-The Pharaoh is called Firaun al-awtad, which is often translated as the Pharaoh of might or the Pharah of the stakes, but when read in context, it is probably saying the Pharoah of high/many buildings. Who was the Pharaoh who was obsessed with building? Ramesses II. All the things noted above also point to him being THE pharoah, and yes we do have his body.
-The "Israel Stele" was completed under Ramesses successor Merneptah soon after the death of his father. In it he claims that the tribe of Israel is destroyed. Clearly this wasn't the case. The Pharaoh's would often claim victories when really they had lost. This is apparent in some of the victories Ramesses II claimed because we also have records from the opposing side (the Hittites).
-The Quran says that the Pharaoh declared himself to be THE God (7924). Although Pharoahs were considered divine, very few of them actually made this claim. As it happens, Ramesses II did declare himself to be God. The inscription of him declaring this is found at his temple at Abu Simbel. Again, the Pharaoh is the only one that the Quran says made such a claim and no one could have known this at the time of Muhammad.
To touch on the points numerically, here are some ideas to consider
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The Stele of Merneptah (e.g. "Israel Stele" has been shown by many scholars to be mistranslated. The word "Israel" is never mentioned in the script at all - the word used is "iisii-r-iar", which means 'those exiled because of their sin'. There's no evidence that it's speaking about the nation, or colony, of the Biblical Israel.
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There's no specific populace mentioned in the Qur'aan. In addition, there's no evidence to support the idea of them being there at all, whether the group was large or small.
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The concept from point #2 can also be relayed in this point - there's no specific evidence to suggest that the Israelites were actually in Egypt. Therefore, their 'being allowed to leave' is not an issue.
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Again, there's no specific evidence to suggest that the Israelites were there, making the reference to one pharaoh, rather than two, insignificant.
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In order to grasp the concept of the Bible saying this specifically, we also have to consider the fact that there's not only one Torah; there are TWO - the written and the oral Torahs. The Oral Torah, compiled in what's now known as the Mishna, specifically mentions God (known therein as "the Lord of Avraham" preserving the body of the pharaoh so that he could be a 'witness to the nations' concerning God's deliverance of the Hebrew people.
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Where does the Qur'aan state that Hamaan was a "priest of Yamanu"? What 'knowledge of ancient Egypt' is described in the Qur'aan, that Mohammed wouldn't have had knowledge of?
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The pharaohs of ancient Egyptian (Khemetic) culture did NOT believe in 'climbing up' anywhere to talk to the gods. The central point of religious life in Egypt was what was known as the 'state temple', and the pharaoh was considered the high priest. The people, often viewing him as a god in their midst, were not allowed to enter the temple on holy days with him or to watch him perform his religious rites and rituals. So, the idea of him climbing up a tower to meet (one of) the gods, in plain sight and in public view, is completely contradictory to their established way of life.
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The Torah relays a similar idea, stating that the pharaoh accuses Moses (or Moshe, as he's called in Hebrew) of trying to 'drive the people out'. Historically, there's no direct evidence to support any of this.
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Variations of the word "awtaad" are used periodically in the Qur'aan, and NONE of them refer to 'tall buildings'. So, what leads you to this conclusion?
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As mentioned, the "Israel Sele" doesn't specifically mention this, and this fact is noted by scholars of the text.
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The idea of a pharaoh referring to himself as "THE" god is not unusual; nearly all of them did this, and this has been well-documented throughout history. The pharaohs often considered themselves incarnations of the gods Ausar (Osiris) and Heru (Horus). Again, this wasn't something that was unknown during the time of Mohammed, and this idea was also propagated throughout the Torah, which Mohammed may have had access to.
Again, these are just points to consider.
Peace,
Ahmad
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Salam,
I must say I do not agree with assertions in this topic.
Firstly, the location of the stories of Moses and Joseph are definitely Egypt.
The Quran uses both the proper noun mis'ra and the indefinite noun mis'ran (261) (a city). This distinction suggests that the four uses of the proper noun mis'ra refer to a definite place. Apart from Lexicons and the Bible telling us it is Egypt, we also have internal and historical evidence to suggest the place is in fact Egypt. Fir'awn in 4351 talks about rivers (plural form, i.e. 3 or more) flowing underneath him, which sounds like the Nile Delta. Historically, the word "m-s-r" or similar have been used in reference to Egypt both within Egypt and by foreigners. There are hieroglyphs which refer to Egypt as "m-s-r" (the pyramid grapheme , the hoe grapheme , and the sun rays grapheme ). There are also correspondences between Egyptian and foreign rulers where Egypt is referred to as "m-s-r" or similar (such as the 14th Century BC 'Armana letters'.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarna_lettersWith regards to the name fir'awn, there is no evidence that it is NOT the title "Pharaoh". Although a good argument has been put forth, that there is no THE or A before the title, and therefore it is a proper noun, this is not necessarily the case. Firstly, unlike the word malik, the word fir'awn is a specific title for Egyptian sovereigns after the New Kingdom, and cannot be used to describe other sovereigns. I looked in the Quran for other uses of a specific title and found "Son of Mary" as a reference to Jesus. Before someone argues that it is used alongside with Isa or al-Masih, the title is used independently twice (2350 & 4357), both times without THE or A. This is internal evidence within the Quran that specific titles do not need THE or A. Also, if you look at the use of the title Pharaoh in the Bible, the title is not used ONCE with THE or A, just like the Quran . The Bible uses the same title (Pharaoh) for the sovereigns in Abraham's time, Joseph's time and Moses' time, thus it wasn't a proper name but in fact a title. The Quran however does not mention an Egyptian sovereign with regards to Abraham, and uses "malik" (king) with regards to Joseph. If the Quran also used the title fir'awn for the Egyptian sovereign during Joseph's time, there would have been no doubt that it is in fact a title. However, this would have been historically incorrect, since the title "Pharaoh" was not used until the New Kingdom, and before this sovereigns of Egypt were referred to as kings.
"Pharaoh" in T. Wilkinson, The Thames & Hudson Dictionary Of Ancient Egypt, 2005, Thames & Hudson London, p. 186.With regards with the argument about "Lord of the Stakes", firstly, the pyramids were built long before every estimate regarding the timeline of the Pharaoh of Moses (usually around 1400 or 1200 BCE). Also the Egyptians were also famous for columns/pillars in their architecture (example temple complex of Karnak at Thebes). Here is a picture of the famous twin obelisks that are replicated throughout the world
http//hawkebackpacking.com/images/pictures/africa/egypt_2009/luxor_karnak/egypt_2009_luxor_karnak_14.jpgPeace
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This is as close to we can get to some "facts" on the matter
The Jews have long considered the place of Moses in the Bible to be Egypt, which they called Mizr and the Qur'an calls Misr.
The Qur'an uses the term Misr, and does not seem to explicitly correct any misinterpretation the Jews and Christians may have had at that time considering the place to be Egypt, which was stilled called Misr in that day apparently, while other places were called other things.
It really doesn't matter much where Moses was at all probably, just that we take the important lessons from the stories, in that we it is also not important whether it happened this way or that way or at all, since the information is created by God, and all that exists now are the stories where one can maybe learn things, whereas all those events themselves are not in our experience, only the simulations in our imaginations when reading the stories perhaps.
Using this sort of careful analysis, we can maybe re-focus on taking what is of real value from the scriptures, rather than warring about what may be ultimately arbitrary and even is "changeable" by God.
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https//ashraf62.wordpress.com/ancient-egypt-knew-no-pharaohs/
If you think that history is all about the past ? you?d better think again.If you think the stories the Hebrew Bible had told about ancient Egypt were true ? you?d better think once again.And if you believe that ancient Egypt was ruled by pharaohs ? then you?d better read the next lines...
Dr. Ashraf Ezzat
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In your opinion yes, hicham9. Although I do agree that he was not in the Egypt that we know.
However, he was much further away from this part of the world. Far far away towards the west.
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Brother MOF, was he in Sweden?
Or may be he was leading the Vikings?
Where is the "far far away towards the west" place?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
No, good logic, he was not in Sweden.
I suppose you have to practice on your geographic skill. Sweden is more north than west if you speak about that.
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Peace MOF.
Moses was with Pharaoh.
Pharaoh and Egypt (Masr) go together like a hand and a glove.Why do I need geography or any kind of skill to know that?
Sometimes I have no idea why we do not throw everything we know about anything and start again.
This sectarians have made up the maps, the history and where Moses was?
However I will still look at your findings to see what is new about where Moses was.
I take it you will tell me where this "far far away to the west place " is?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I take it you will tell me where this "far far away to the west place " is?
It is "over jordan". Moses people traveled for many many years. And they traveled through the Sahara desert.
Why do I need geography or any kind of skill to know that?
I was being sarcastic in return to your not so serious input as you mentioned Sweden and you obviously know that Sweden is towards the north rather than west.
The traditional Egypt place is a good guess, but it is not far away enough and the scope is way larger.
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In the epic, he's said to embody the wild/natural world, being a "wild man" (allegedly raised by animals) who would later come closer to civilization and somehow become "best friends" with the (tyrant) cultured, urban-bred king ! I'd say an authoritative high priest-like figure who claimed supernatural powers (& whatnot).
The priests of ancient Mesopotamia were considered 1st class, and thus possessed a large amount of authority, i was told.