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  4. Belief in AlQuran

Belief in AlQuran

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • A Offline
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    abdalquran
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    It is a conjectural statement, more like whisper and inspiration of Satan. Q.student though not quoted the verses but what he said is from Grand Qur'aan. Read here is a certain, established and proven Kafir and who is an established and provem Mumin.

    Satan? Oh no!!! I suppose Satan also told us this
    Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve
    And this
    Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

    Who said anything about rejecting the messenger, since you quoted 4/150? Does the messenger only refer to Muhammad? Does it even refer to HUMAN messengers? Have a look at 42/51, Allah has three ways of communicating with us.

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      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062c.gif
      Indeed any one; from amongst the people identified/recognized/referenced as believers , and any one from those identified as Jews, and Nisaa'ra and Sai'been;

      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.069a.gif
      who had accepted belief in Allah and the Last Day; and performed righteous acts

      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062d.gif
      for this reason/in consequence for such people shall be their reward from their Sustainer Lord;

      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062e.gif
      and upon them is no cause of fear and neither shall they grieve.

      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.A.040.htm

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        abdalquran
        wrote on last edited by
        #23
        1. If someone lives their life according to the Quran but never reads it, are they wrong?

        If someone read never read the best map to a destination, but walked in that direction, he?ll more than likely find the place. Quran is not indispensable. I study it because I consider it the best guidance and as it unfolds, I?m seeing more and more insights.
        No offense for calling Quran ?the best map?. Its just my opinion. Your scholarship of the bible led you to the same conclusions about God so fair dues to that.

        1. Many people (including myself) read the Quran and do not reject it, yet I have not converted to Islam. Am I still a kaffir?

        Why on earth would you want to convert to Islam? You need to affect the Arab cultural expression of religiosity. Pray like an arab, eat like an arab, greet like an Arab. Lemme tell ya something John, how you run your ministry, THAT?S how I envision a Quranist movement would be like. Except for the fact you don?t use the Quran. Muslims have got bogged down in these cultural performances.

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        • A Offline
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          abdalquran
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.062c.gif
          Indeed any one; from amongst the people identified/recognized/referenced as believers , and any one from those identified as Jews, and Nisaa'ra and Sai'been;
          http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.069a.gif
          who had accepted belief in Allah and the Last Day; and performed righteous acts

          Dude, it doesn?t say ?any one of those identified as jews etc etc. So don?t make stuff up, ok?
          Man amana billahi wal yawmil aakhir refers to ANYONE who believe in God and the ?last day?. If it referred to believers, alladhina haadu, nasaraa and sabieen, it would say ?alladhina amana billahi wal yawmil akhir?.

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            MUNZIR_ALI
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            Thank you for your very good answers. Unfortunately people like me (non-trinitarian Christians) are still branded as "unbelievers" just because of the name "Christian"

            I wrote an essay about you and your church and my classmates called me infidel. rotfl just because of the name christian.

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              SarahY
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              Imfromjakarta thanks for your response. it?s not that i?m spiritually feeling down, just abit conflicted with thoughts and understanding. But thats cos i?m ignorant and dealing with discomfort of ideas because of preconceived ideas. Though I still wanna understand ?kafir?.

              I guess you?re right some people choose hell unconsciously or maybe with full knowledge...

              Thanks Wakas, I?ve saved the file i?ll look into it and comment on it later.

              Rev john

              Jannah = paradise.

              Well i think jannah should be worked for. Who gets it God knows. If belief is enough it sounds to simple?

              I don?t know if people ?convert? to islam. If you believe it, you believe it. But if u believe it and cause mischief and misguide people that?s something else (not saying you do)

              Well i know it sounds odd how can someone believe in God but if that person rejects Quran then they are kafireen of the belief of The Quran not necessarily God. I sound confusing sorry.

              abdalquran

              Whats your ideas of the terms mu`min and muqeen you seem to have studied them. I should take Wakas? advice and look through the Quran. I guess i?m being lazy and wanted to see some people?s thoughts.

              In that case my responses might be delayed

              so people, sorry

              Salam

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                abdalquran
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                abdalquran
                Whats your ideas of the terms mu`min and muqeen you seem to have studied them. I should take Wakas? advice and look through the Quran. I guess i?m being lazy and wanted to see some people?s thoughts.

                Well, it?d be too much to get into here so I?ll try to sum up. Mumineen are people who answer the calls to ?alladhina aamanoo? in the Quran which if im not mistaken, are 88 in total. I should add that this doesn?t mean they read the Quran and heeded it. It could be that they answered an inner call to adhere to such rules. That was my point to Mazhar above. It?s impossible to disobey the messenger and still make it to jannah but there are many channels of messengership. The ayaat could even be in your soul, as you know.
                So those are mu?min. As for muqeen/ones of certainty, you?ll find that these people have understood the rabubiyah/lordship of Allah in total. It?s possible that these people have achieved the eye of certainty/ayn al-yaqeen by contemplating death. These people have no more doubts.

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                  Mazhar
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  refers to ANYONE who believe in God and the ?last day?.

                  Grand Qur'aan says something different

                  Verb PERFECT; Third person; singular; masculine; Form-IV.

                  Verb PERFECT; Third person; singular; masculine;

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                    abdalquran
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Thanks for the info below, mazhar. Can you please tell us how what you say is relevant?

                    Grand Qur'aan says something different

                    Verb PERFECT; Third person; singular; masculine; Form-IV.

                    Verb PERFECT; Third person; singular; masculine;

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                      Mazhar
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Thanks for the info below, mazhar. Can you please tell us how what you say is relevant?

                      In the quoted verses an eternal principle has been told that in the time and space who ever believed he will be rewarded, nothwithstandin their worldly identification. Principle and the criteria remains the same in time and space.

                      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.038a.gif
                      We said "You go down out of this place you jointly, (don't feel disappointed/ frustrated)

                      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.038(when%20from%20me).gif
                      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.038b.gif
                      then when comes to you people Guidance from Me then whosoever physically acts/exclusively follows My Guidance

                      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/005.%20Al%20Maida/temo5.069b.gif
                      consequently upon such people for reason of having exclusively acted on My Guidance, there is no cause of fear for them and neither shall they grieve.

                      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.01.A.htm

                      Whoever, in time and space, notwithstanding by what name they were known and famous in their respective periods, will qualify if they had followed the Book of their period. Today the prevalent Book of Allah is ONLY Grand Qur'aan which affirms and sanctifies the Books sent earlier in time and space.

                      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.041a.gif
                      And accept that (Grand Qur'aan) which I have since sent, who/which certifies/sanctifies what is with you people {from Tor'aat} and do not be the first one {amongst people of Book} to disregard that {Qur'aan};

                      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.A.040.htm

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                      • A Offline
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                        abdalquran
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        Whoever, in time and space, notwithstanding by what name they were known and famous in their respective periods, will qualify if they had followed the Book of their period. Today the prevalent Book of Allah is ONLY Grand Qur'aan which affirms and sanctifies the Books sent earlier in time and space.

                        Mazhar, I cannot understand you read ?A? and come up with ?B?. There?s no ?book of the period? in any of the ayaat you quoted. 2/38 for examples speaks of kalimaat/words which will redeem Adam.

                        As for the only prevalent book of Allah, would God be fair entire mankind on their acceptance or rejection of the Quran as a text (not reject its teachings but the text itself)? Some people were born never even knowing Quran and God is gonna chuck them into hell for that?! Others were shown the horrible example of Muslims (blowing up stuff while holding the Quran yelling Allahu akbar!)? Sorry man, that doesn?t tally at all. Quran is the best source of guidance, it?s never the only source of guidance.

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                          No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          Many people are of the opinion lots of people can be muslim (not that i disagree) how are you defining the term muslim?

                          Another thing, IF the purpose of Quran is a guidance ya ayuha allathina aminou is a common phrase you will see, addressing those who believe so who is that? (the ones that aminou (look at chapter 49 for example) the muslims? the believers of the Quran or what? The guidance seems to implicate commandments however I know people are of the belief Quran isnt needed.

                          262 Surely those who have trust/assurance/freedom of doubt in their heart/mind (al mumineen), and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and do reform, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

                          Pay attention to the "and".

                          4133 Who can be better in speech than one who invites to God, and does reforms, and says "I am one of those who have peacefully surrendered (al muslimeen)."

                          Mumins uphold the book, so they uphold the salat/bond, bring forth the development/betterment/zakat, strive with their money and lives in the cause of God, etc.

                          A muslim is one who has trust in/acknwoledge God, the last day/heareafter and does reform/righteous deeds.

                          4133 Who is better in saying than one who invites to God, and does good works, and says "I am one of those who have peacefully surrendered."

                          Whats the point in following it if its not needed? If you can be a Muslim without it? Does being muslim give you jannah?

                          82 The mumins are those whom, when God is mentioned, their hearts tremble; when His signs are recited to them, it strengthens their acknowledgement; and they put their trust in their Lord.

                          83 They uphold the bond, and from Our provisions to them they spend.

                          84 These are the true mumins; they will have high ranks at their Lord, forgiveness, and a generous provision.

                          Also the term kafir comes to mind. If a person comes across Quran reads/studies it yet rejects it does that not make them a kafir? Yet what if that person believed in God? Doesnt that make them a muslim?

                          A kafir is one who conceals the truth/is ungrateful. There isnt really a thing such as "apostasy" or "conversion" as understood in the classical sense in islam. We must never forget that God is the most compassionate/merciful. Furthermore, a muslim, as explained above, is not one who (needs) to uphold the Quran/reading.

                          2109 arent ahl alkitab believers? Some are mushrikeen but there are believers so if a believer of God is simply a muslim then it's really not much??

                          Anyone who sets up partners with God is a mushrik. It makes no difference if the person calls himself/herself "Sunni", "Jewish", "Muslim" or anything else.

                          Sorry if it sounds disjointed random thoughts going through my head

                          We should always seek knowledge and clarification/verification (1736, 3918, 12114).

                          I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                            No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            Just a few questions

                            1. Muslim means submitter to God? If that is true then I agree with you that anyone who submits to God is Muslim

                            2. If someone lives their life according to the Quran but never reads it, are they wrong?

                            3. I do not know what jannah means, but why would it be restricted to Muslims (in the narrower meaning of the word)?

                            4. Many people (including myself) read the Quran and do not reject it, yet I have not converted to Islam. Am I still a kaffir?

                            5. How can someone who believes in God be an "unbeliever" just because they are in a different religion?

                            Once again, just a few random thoughts.

                            1. Explained in my previous post. It is simply someone who trusts in/acknowledges God, does righteous deeds/reform and believes in the hereafter.

                            2. "We made the Quran easy to learn. Do any of you wish to learn?" (5417, 5422, 5432, 5440)

                            565 If the people of the book only would have acknowledged and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.

                            566 If they had upheld the Torah, the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord (Quran), they would have been rewarded from above them and below their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but many of them commit evil.

                            1. "Jannah" means "hidden garden/garden". It is open to all muslims (see definition above).

                            2. One doesnt "convert" to islam be uttering some magic Arabic words. You are already a muslim, IMO, since you acknowledge God, the last day/hereafter and you (probably) engage in righteous deeds/reform.

                            3. 262 Surely those who acknowledge, and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and those who follow other religions, any one of them who acknowledge God and the Last day, and do reform, they will have their reward with their Lord, with no fear over them, nor will they grieve.

                            I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                              Mazhar
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 023350 PM
                              Whoever, in time and space, notwithstanding by what name they were known and famous in their respective periods, will qualify if they had followed the Book of their period. Today the prevalent Book of Allah is ONLY Grand Qur'aan which affirms and sanctifies the Books sent earlier in time and space.

                              Mazhar, I cannot understand you read ?A? and come up with ?B?. There?s no ?book of the period? in any of the ayaat you quoted. 2/38 for examples speaks of kalimaat/words which will redeem Adam.

                              As for the only prevalent book of Allah, would God be fair entire mankind on their acceptance or rejection of the Quran as a text (not reject its teachings but the text itself)? Some people were born never even knowing Quran and God is gonna chuck them into hell for that?! Others were shown the horrible example of Muslims (blowing up stuff while holding the Quran yelling Allahu akbar!)? Sorry man, that doesn?t tally at all. Quran is the best source of guidance, it?s never the only source of guidance.

                              Let us not wander in the whole universe. We are not concerned about those who never even know the existence of Qur'aan. All reference quoted were in connection with a specific understanding of a friend on the forum, responding Rev John's point
                              .
                              Many people (including myself) read the Quran and do not reject it, yet I have not converted to Islam. Am I still a kaffir?

                              The basic and fundamental obligation of a reader of a book is to either reject the stuff contained in it or accept it. One cannot do the two things simulteneously, neither he rejects it nor he accepts it. This will only reflect one is in state of perplexity, confusion, is indecisive.

                              For every moment in time there is a book

                              For each and every moment/period there is a Book.

                              And ever since the arrival of Qur'aan this is the Book for the entire humanity till the Last Day. Whomever Qur'aan reaches he has to decide whether he accepts it and becomes believer or opts to refuse/reject it and become Kafir, one who denies.

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                                Rev_John
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                Let us not wander in the whole universe. We are not concerned about those who never even know the existence of Qur'aan. All reference quoted were in connection with a specific understanding of a friend on the forum, responding Rev John's point
                                .
                                The basic and fundamental obligation of a reader of a book is to either reject the stuff contained in it or accept it. One cannot do the two things simulteneously, neither he rejects it nor he accepts it. This will only reflect one is in state of perplexity, confusion, is indecisive.

                                For every moment in time there is a book

                                For each and every moment/period there is a Book.

                                And ever since the arrival of Qur'aan this is the Book for the entire humanity till the Last Day. Whomever Qur'aan reaches he has to decide whether he accepts it and becomes believer or opts to refuse/reject it and become Kafir, one who denies.

                                I don't think there is anything in the Quran to reject.

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                                  nsws1988
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  I don't think there is anything in the Quran to reject.

                                  how about the commandments and prohibitions?

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                                    Rev_John
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    how about the commandments and prohibitions?

                                    Most if not all are contained in the bible too

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                                      nsws1988
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Most if not all are contained in the bible too

                                      If you accept them and accept that they are orders and prohibitions from God, do you follow them?

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                                        Mazhar
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        I don't think there is anything in the Quran to reject.

                                        When one arrives at this conclusion about any book, it becomes an obligation that he should wholeheartedly accept the verdict of the Book and pronounce his belief loudly and clearly and then physically follow its advises in different moments of his life. If this is not the reaction then one is like those who read books only for fun and killing time.

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                                          Rev_John
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #40

                                          If you accept them and accept that they are orders and prohibitions from God, do you follow them?

                                          I do my best, but as a human being, I fail sometimes

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