You think deleting 2 verses is bad enough...
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I beg your pardon?? What do you mean by 'you people'. Care to elaborate?
My friends? Do you know me or something? Who are my friends?
You have no right to put me in a box labelled 'you people'. I am not part of a cult. I am an individual and would prefer to be treated like one thank you very much!he seems to know you very well.... may be he is your neighbour or something but you don't know it.
any ways back to the topic. So why to delete/add anything in quran? Is it permissible? no matter the reason be code-19 / or anything else?
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he seems to know you very well.... may be he is your neighbour or something but you don't know it.
any ways back to the topic. So why to delete/add anything in quran? Is it permissible? no matter the reason be code-19 / or anything else?
Maybe he's my dad.
Well the reason they want to delete so many verses is because they don't agree with them.
My question is Do they believe that the Quran is from God? If they do, have they tried to understand the verses properly and who gave them the right to delete God's verses?
It is all about the intention. -
Maybe he's my dad.
Well the reason they want to delete so many verses is because they don't agree with them.
My question is Do they believe that the Quran is from God? If they do, have they tried to understand the verses properly and who gave them the right to delete God's verses?
It is all about the intention.Sister what are you talking about ?
If they believe in the Quran ,do you think they would have removed two verses from the Quran inspite of Allah's Claim of preservation of the Quran.
They believe in modern Hearsay (Hadith) Code 19
Quran saysRegards
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Sister what are you talking about ?
If they believe in the Quran ,do you think they would have removed two verses from the Quran inspite of Allah's Claim of preservation of the Quran.
They believe in modern Hearsay (Hadith) Code 19
Quran saysRegards
I am referring to the main topic.
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I beg your pardon?? What do you mean by 'you people'. Care to elaborate?
You people that reject God's Miracle
My friends? Do you know me or something? Who are my friends?
The people that deny Miracle are in same category and are in same front Friends.
You have no right to put me in a box labelled 'you people'.
Do you believe in Miracle?
I am not part of a cult.
for me when you do not have proof for your book you are another cult.
I am an individual and would prefer to be treated like one thank you very much!
Certainly. I never anlyze poeple on the line unless they express themselves and already you explained that is raised brnaded name Sunni but they are not like myself had to say I am Shia when i was atheist . You have to hide it or SWORD. ) .
Do you believe that the Quran is from God?
Good question for yourself too.
If so, how would you explain your opinion that several verses are bad?
Great Masha Allah you wrote exactly what I have repeated many times I would like to see your detailed response.
Peace. ) -
You people that reject God's Miracle
The people that deny Miracle are in same category and are in same front Friends.So everyone who doesn't believe in code 19, even if i don't know them is my friend? Do you know what 'friend' means? Get some then you'll know the definition.
Do you believe in Miracle? for me when you do not have proof for your book you are another cult.
I believe in the scientific miracles in the Quran. To me, a cult has a leader. RK comes to mind.
Certainly. I never anlyze poeple on the line unless they express themselves and already you explained that is raised brnaded name Sunni but they are not like myself had to say I am Shia when i was atheist . You have to hide it or SWORD. )
I didn't understand half of that. You analysed me by the faith of my family. That is discrimination.
Good question for yourself too.
Yes I do believe that it is from God. It is a good question for yourself too.
Great Masha Allah you wrote exactly what I have repeated many times I would like to see your detailed response.
Who else said that there are bad verses?
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You people that reject God's Miracle
The people that deny Miracle are in same category and are in same front Friends.So everyone who doesn't believe in code 19, even if i don't know them is my friend? Do you know what 'friend' means? Get some then you'll know the definition.
Do you believe in Miracle? for me when you do not have proof for your book you are another cult.
I believe in the scientific miracles in the Quran. To me, a cult has a leader. RK comes to mind.
Certainly. I never anlyze poeple on the line unless they express themselves and already you explained that is raised brnaded name Sunni but they are not like myself had to say I am Shia when i was atheist . You have to hide it or SWORD.  
I didn't understand half of that. You analysed me by the faith of my family. That is discrimination.
Good question for yourself too.
Yes I do believe that it is from God. It is a good question for yourself too.
Great Masha Allah you wrote exactly what I have repeated many times I would like to see your detailed response.
Who else said that there are bad verses?
Peace
Do little search and save our time please.
Which Quran ?
http//www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/WhichQuran.pdf
Peace. -
Firstly, thank you for keeping to the topic.
Do you believe that the Quran is from God? If so, how would you explain your opinion that several verses are bad?I believe the whole universe is from God, but there are lots of bad things in the Universe. But to answer your question as you intended it to mean, no, I don't think the whole of the book we have is God's guidance. Some bad ideas have snuck their way in.
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I believe the whole universe is from God,
I agree.
http//y19.net/619-3.htmlbut there are lots of bad things in the Universe.
would you post some example please.
But to answer your question as you intended it to mean, no, I don't think the whole of the book we have is God's guidance.
I believe Quran was revealed for our generation and and that reason for revealing secret of 14 initial at this time when is possible to witness it only by this creature. The generation on this scree which can see it and cannot deny in day of judgement that it was published on this screen and read it but ignore because their heart is beating with their shaikhs,imams,scholars, priest, pope, khakaham ,monk.........
God knows every moment of our situation and our sickness by Satan. Like a doctor injecting necessary medication stage by stage. Quran is last messages but revealed in time and location that God explains the reason as one of the darkest socity when tells them do bury your daughters.
Talking to such people that easily bring sword out and cut your head because you asking question or you proof he is not right can not be out of some warning.
There are messages there that is tough and sometime do not match with our era. Those messages are for past. Now we have proof that whole Quran
is word of superhuman but we do not have proof that to live like 1400 years ago. If god authored that instead of one man 2 women should sign the contract
it could be used in remote area when women are not allowed to be educated. in majority of modern societies there no contract between 2 person. There are finicial instituation charf ging for securing your contact according to present rules and laws.
It would be funny to tell females that have all kind of position up to presideny that she has to bring another female to sign.
But corrupted poeple and sick minded leaders in the past and present are abusing such verse to give half of men right to women for everything( if they are moderate laugh)
I did not go trough those list and is wasting time when i witness all messages are secured and protected unless 2 verses that done by Satanic desire of time dictatorial power to elevate themselves as decedent of Raheem to same level of God. Then when Ali rejected such fabrication he was assisisnated and his family too and superpower of time ( when there was no such media and education level ) they change the story to fight over leadership of Raheem. ( not prophet as he never called himself Raheem and he never did same Shahada that Mohammedans do to today.
When they can do it to day like invasion of Iraq accusing of Mass Destruction weapons which now is goinf for years has become a field for Sunii and Shai fighting for their dead idols leadership with multiple PHD hanging on their walls and screaming on your tube to show themselves not the messages )
So changing history by victor is natural thing but stupidities of our generation with access to all kind of information following their parents belief blindly can be seen easily on this screen and portion of it in this forum.
Such stupidities had had never finished and there is no chance for REFORMING them . The only way is cutting out with past as many has done.
This report is portion of such tyrannous and corrupted cultist in either with all kind of modern means and tools but same mentality before Quran.
Go back 1400 years ago or visit remote areas (which have changed names,dress code and carrying same corruption before Quran by different name ).
Messages are for the time of revealed to the end of this life and belong to TIME and LOCATION.Some bad ideas have snuck their way in.
Let us say "Some bad ideas have snuck their way in"
Because scholars and clergies interpreted the verses according to instruction of political and religious leaders to respect Hathis fabrication and even they do it to day.
Peace.
26/10/2009 124751 AM -
Peace Bahman,
I see that you are still flipping numbers around; OK sure why not waste time...
http//19.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&86/&th=7643&goto=52179#msg_52179
amar wrote on Sun, 09 August 2009 0028
Salaam my dear brothers H.O., Pierre, and all,
Five years ago I thought one day when the Quran ?e-version? is completely corrected of misspells, and all letters are replaced with their corresponding gematrical values, that the complete Quran numerical sequence would be one way or another multiple of 19. Well brothers and sisters, it is! With God?s Will and contributions from a lot of Truth seekers, the e-version Quran is finally corrected!
We already know of the mathematical miracle on the numerical combinations of very long numbers when just the chapters and verses numbers are used. Well these numbers become super-long-numbers when # of words, sequence of words, # of letters, sequence of letters GV, and total word GV are appended to them. This super-long-number (over 1 million digits) is a MULTIPLE of 19!
The same approach as with the chapters-verses sequences from RK?s Appendix 1 ?Superhuman Numerical Combinations? was used.
Example of a long-number (13,038 digits) using all verses (including unnumbered bismallah designated by verse no 0) from www.submission.org. Pattern chapter no. followed by no. of verses in chapter, followed by sequence of verses in chapter. Sequence chapter 1 followed by chapter 2, ? , chapter 114 1 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 2 286 0 1 2 3 4 ? 114 6 0 1 2 3 4 5 6. We already know this sequence is a multiple of 19.
Presented below are 3 new facts. This is just the tip of the iceberg, and God?s Will new physical facts will surface in the future.
The latest excel file (including unnumbered verses. i.e. bismallah designated verse no. 0) that H.O. and I have recently completed is used for the following calculations.
FACT 1 the number of words in each verse is correct. (There are 77,404 words in the 6234 numbered verses.)
Pattern1 chapter no. followed by #of verses, followed by verse no. and #of words in verse, ?
Sequence1 1 7 1 4 2 4 3 2 4 3 5 4 6 3 7 9 2 286 0 4 1 1 2 7 ? 114 6 0 4 1 4 2 2 3 2 4 4 5 5 6 3. A sequence of 22,717 digits is a MULTIPLE of 19! So adding or subtracting a single word would fail the trial. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe.FACT 2 the number of letters in each word is correct (There are 326,030 letters in the 6234 numbered verses.)
Pattern2 pattern 1 followed by #of letters in verse, followed by word no. and #of letters in word, ..
Sequence2 1 7 1 4 19 1 3 2 4 3 6 4 6 2 4 17 1 5 2 3 3 2 4 7 ? 2 286 0 4 19 1 3 2 4 3 6 4 6 1 1 3 1 3 2 7 26 1 3 2 5 3 2 4 3 5 3 6 3 7 7 ? 114 6 0 4 19 1 3 2 4 3 6 4 6 1 4 14 1 2 2 4 3 3 4 5 2 2 8 1 3 2 5 3 2 8 1 3 2 5 ... A sequence of 223,300 digits is also a MULTIPLE of 19! Again adding / subtracting a single letter would fail the trial. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe.FACT 3 the letter at each position in the word is correct
Pattern3 same as pattern 2, except insert after each #of letters GV sentence of word followed by GV of word ?
Sequence 1 7 1 4 19 1 3 26040 102 2 4 130305 66 3 6 13020084050 329 4 6 13020081040 289 2 4 17 1 5 1308404 83 2 3 30305 65 3 2 2002 202 4 7 1307030401050 231 ? 2 286 0 4 19 1 3 26040 102 2 4 130305 66 3 6 13020084050 329 4 6 13020081040 289 1 1 3 1 3 13040 71 2 7 26 1 3 7003020 750 2 5 130204002 453 3 2 301 31 4 3 200102 212 5 3 80105 95 6 3 5410 19 7 7 3030404001001050 660 ? 114 6 0 4 19 1 3 26040 102 2 4 130305 66 3 6 13020084050 329 4 6 13020081040 289 1 4 14 1 2 10030 130 2 4 1706700 777 3 3 22002 204 4 5 13050160 142 2 2 8 1 3 403020 90 2 5 13050160 142 3 2 8 1 3 1305 36 2 5 13050160 142 ... A sequence of 1,005,248 digits and a MULTIPLE of 19! Interchange a single letter and the trial would fail. Praise be to God, Lord of the Universe.I?m attaching 2 zipped files containing input and output files for the 3 above facts. (Use Num19 program from www.submission.org to verify), and an excel file named e-Quran.xls containing Quran and all the above.
Infinite combinations e.g. simply flipping alif in chapter 1143 ? alnnasi 13050160 to ? al-insi 13015060...
http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=18155
Facts 1, 2, and 3 still remain multiples?
114 6 0 4 19 1 3 26040 102 2 4 130305 66 3 6 13020084050 329 4 6 13020081040 289
1 4 14 1 2 10030 130 2 4 1706700 777 3 3 22002 204 4 5 13050160 142
2 2 8 1 3 403020 90 2 5 13050160 142
3 2 8 1 3 1305 36 2 5 13015060 142
4 4 17 1 2 4050 90 2 2 300200 500 3 7 1306606160 164 4 6 13060050160 742
5 5 20 1 4 13070010 741 2 5 10660660 142 3 2 8010 90 4 4 9046200 300 5 5 13050160 142
6 3 13 1 2 4050 90 2 5 1303505 89 3 6 613050160 148 -
Congratulations MR Bahman, your dr is back!
http//img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00880/SNF03LIVE1A_682_880416a.jpg
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Let us say "Some bad ideas have snuck their way in"
Because scholars and clergies interpreted the verses according to instruction of political and religious leaders to respect Hathis fabrication and even they do it to day.
Peace.
26/10/2009 124751 AMWhen I first bought a copy of Edips "Quran a Reformist Translation", I was initially enthusiastic. Lots of his arguments make good sense, and his criticism of both mainstream Sunni Islam and western consumerism is both balanced and justified.
However, as I read more and compared translations, it became clear to me that it remains the case that some passages are beyond reform, especially Chapter 9, and many of the passages he as tried to rehabilitate are still bad even when you accept his translation.
Especially that passage where he corrected the translation from "beat her" to "leave her". Okay, it is no longer domestic violence. But what is left is advice on how to deal with a "rebellious wife" by consecutively criticising her, withholding sex and then leaving her. That would make a person "passive aggressive". It is still bad relationship advice.
And the fact is, where the meaning of a text is not obvious, it is not the fault of the reader, it is the fault of the text. You shouldn't have to study so hard and pray so hard to get the meaning if it was really all from God. So I think the only bits that are really from God are the ones which have either a straight forward positive meaning, or else a very deep symbolic meaning. Not the ones which have a confused symbolic meaning or a simple and bad meaning.
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When I first bought a copy of Edips "Quran a Reformist Translation", I was initially enthusiastic. Lots of his arguments make good sense, and his criticism of both mainstream Sunni Islam and western consumerism is both balanced and justified.
However, as I read more and compared translations, it became clear to me that it remains the case that some passages are beyond reform, especially Chapter 9, and many of the passages he as tried to rehabilitate are still bad even when you accept his translation.
Especially that passage where he corrected the translation from "beat her" to "leave her". Okay, it is no longer domestic violence. But what is left is advice on how to deal with a "rebellious wife" by consecutively criticising her, withholding sex and then leaving her. That would make a person "passive aggressive". It is still bad relationship advice.
And the fact is, where the meaning of a text is not obvious, it is not the fault of the reader, it is the fault of the text. You shouldn't have to study so hard and pray so hard to get the meaning if it was really all from God. So I think the only bits that are really from God are the ones which have either a straight forward positive meaning, or else a very deep symbolic meaning. Not the ones which have a confused symbolic meaning or a simple and bad meaning.
Please try to refrain this modern form of Hadiths which are the product of Deluded minds
That is why Quran says.Do you think any sane /sensible person can believe that Quran and Allah are lying.This is what RK and followers including Edip preach. Can they be reliable in any sense?
Regards
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Peace Bahman,
I see that you are still flipping numbers around; OK sure why not waste time...Peace
Attacking code 19 is not fftopic but pro yes ) How ever if i am wasting what are you doing. Are you wasting your time on my wasted one laugh
Infinite combinations e.g. simply flipping alif in chapter 1143 ? alnnasi 13050160 to ? al-insi 13015060...
http//www.openburhan.net/ob_w.php?w=18155- the human/the mankind
- the people
First you damaging beautifulness of Rhyme when all 6 verses ends . In our school time we had contest to create Rhymes and using any crap like Ayman to end same word in Farsi which is using Arabic letters plus.
So this is first rule for manipulation which has proteded book fairly but with increase of human knowledge and able to create such thing that kind of protection is not more effective and God knew Stan will try to confuse people like me that do not have high level of Arabic knowledge. Then He revealed secret of 14 initial which have been authored as proof for book.
Very simple that any body spend few minutes time can see the beauty and protection is used to secure the words and letters.
Here you have tries to use same word in different root with same GV. If the meaning is not chnaged then it is another miracle and I congrotulate you for such finding as you have done when God knows best. )
So you see clearly you have broken first rule to keep Rhymes in its shape.
And then you have used same root of word and I am not sure if you have changed the meaning or not.
Hope these people with with drill instead of Gun trying to shut my head ( internet Bin Ladens ) seek the truth and understand what I am telling them.
But to make you happy with your claim let us assume that the Rhyme is ok and meaning too Then it could be great . now we have 2 ways of interlock.
The book was authoed 1400 years ago without computer and now you use Lottery Ticket punctualities program and wasting time to show readers such craps.
Did you get it
Tomorrow is late.
Peace. (
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i dont get it
exactly, thats what he is trying to tell you. get it now?
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When I first bought a copy of Edips "Quran a Reformist Translation", I was initially enthusiastic. Lots of his arguments make good sense, and his criticism of both mainstream Sunni Islam and western consumerism is both balanced and justified.
Peace.
I respect Edip and his defend of truth but I am not in any form of reform. I accept Quran as is purified and has been protected digitally .Quran is revealed for all generation up to end of this world. The messages belong to TIME and LOCATION which I have explained it.However, as I read more and compared translations, it became clear to me that it remains the case that some passages are beyond reform, especially Chapter 9, and many of the passages he as tried to rehabilitate are still bad even when you accept his translation.
Time and Location.
Especially that passage where he corrected the translation from "beat her" to "leave her". Okay, it is no longer domestic violence. But what is left is advice on how to deal with a "rebellious wife" by consecutively criticising her, withholding sex and then leaving her. That would make a person "passive aggressive". It is still bad relationship advice.
When Quran revealed they were burring the girls and the had no right for anything. And may easliy could be killed by husband for not obeying him for his desire. The man stand at his position an corrupted belief by mixing his tradition in other book Hadith and yet after 1400 years in remote villages same rule is going on. Personally myself have grew in shia territory which women is beaten up by corrupted men that portend to be be believers by obeying their corrupted imams fetwas. I have seen the man calling himself man beating his women for simple thing like not enough salt in food.
If aman can be clean as a prefect believer to be elevated to level of Jesus with holy soul then such command is applicable. But no man can reach such level and verse automatically is nulled by itself.
Same thing for
If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship.
They have had and have Heram with more than four for sexual desires but all Mohammedans are abusing this verse not for Orphans but for their own desire.
There are many verses that have conditions which automatically nulls it Those are things was happening before Quran and God put conditions to do it in right way. They take the easy part and ignore the hard one and of course corrupted Ayat Allah, Shaikh ,Pope,.......help such corruption with their own fabricated lies as God's ruleAnd the fact is, where the meaning of a text is not obvious, it is not the fault of the reader, it is the fault of the text. You shouldn't have to study so hard and pray so hard to get the meaning if it was really all from God
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First at all i have stated that messages come to guide lost into right path. Final expectation of God is very clear in 262 But meaning of text changes with aging and specially if they fabricate another book on the side like Hadith they force it to change meaning of word to match their ancestors LIES.
For example Yusouf Ali as a Mohammedan ac voids to use clear word of Trained DOG and uses Trained animal due to fabrication of dirtiness of God and Kafirs ( Christians). The female teaching Islamic Halal Food in Yahoo club banned me when i put that verse that dog is bringing hunt to you is lawful. I told her that dog is bringing hunt in mouth and how you cook such hunt. laugh
30 years ago when i immigrated to Canada there was no word like COOL to express a good or fair thing now is common and would be added to dic.
we are at information and tech age and the language is changing and now considering 1400 years many of those verse have lost their real meaning even by best translators. What God expect is in 262. I am not here to defend or reject any message . I am here just show existence of a superhuman authored such book. I try to understand the book with present information not past not future. You may look at my site and see few on my understanding.So I think the only bits that are really from God are the ones which have either a straight forward positive meaning, or else a very deep symbolic meaning. Not the ones which have a confused symbolic meaning or a simple and bad meaning.
I agree with you like for example my search for finding if God is talking about Sitchin has not been completed.
Sitchin book is full of data and then he refers to OT and NT but never using Quran with so many prophesized science.
Is that the Numerically structured book by wicked. ?
Peace