Jews not following Torah are like donkeys with Books

Fawzia

Why are you so afraid to answer, Fawzia? Worried that your b.s. will finally be exposed?

I am afraid of nothing abdul quran, I can sense & deeply sympathise with Muslim frustrations at someone dumping their religion, then that person is b.s.-however, anyone accepting their faith, if only for the dumbest reasons & with the most basic knowledge is celebrated.

Calling me bullshit will unfortunately not make your Quran a noble, pleasing book.

I ask you, is it right, non racist to call a community of mllions "donkeys with books," if they refuse to accept Muhammad's retelling & additions to his stories?

I realise I have created tremendous anger, frustration, outraghe etc etc, unfortunately incessantly lashing out at me online won't solve anything or add anything to the debate.

It won't make the Quran's offensive hate speech disappear.

If you're a person so deeply concerned with racism, as you like to portray yourself to an apostate, please answer?

Is it racist hate speech or not to call others "donkeys with books?" How will Muslims live in respect & mutual co operation with others if they use this sort of hate speech?

Would you like it if someone copied your Quran, added new stuff onto it to make a brand new religious book, & called you Quranist Muslims "donkeys with books,"?

As I said, while deeply sympathising with Muslim frustrations like yours, this won't make the Quranic hate speech go away.

Tch, tch. So non racist abdul quran, is it\is it not-racism to call others donkeys with books?

abdalquran

Spare me your psycho-jive talk. You're an intellectual coward, 'Fawzia'. But I tell you what, AS SOON as we finish dealing with the Taurat/Torah issue, I will answer your questions regarding the Jews.

Now I repeat (and will keep repeating)

You quote 62/5 which chastises the jews for not CARRYING (yahmiloo) the tauraat
According to you, this means that Quran wants them to follow the TORAH (from which you quoted from laws).

Is this correct or wrong? Upon your answer, we will proceed

Why do you keep running away, Fawzia? lol.....

Rami

Conversion and apostasy is not unique to Islam. Even criticism of other people is not unique to the Quran.

The Torah mocks Egypt as the place of sin. The NT bashes the Jews consistently. etc.

Many Jews don't believe in their books. Many Christians become atheists.

Who cares what anyone thinks. I know one thing for certain, truth is truth and it will prevail independent to what you and I believe or think, no matter what it is.

Fawzia

Spare me your psycho-jive talk. You're an intellectual coward, 'Fawzia'. But I tell you what, AS SOON as we finish dealing with the Taurat/Torah issue, I will answer your questions regarding the Jews.

You fail to understand something extremely important abdul quran-calling an apostate racist, ignorant of classical Arabic, intellectual coward etc won't solve anything regarding the Quran, coz an apostate isn't supposed to be perfect, Allah is.

Allah calls Jews donkeys with books, is that racist or not?

You seem to go by the legal maxim, "When you have a weak defence, put your opponent on trial,' assume that by calling apostates racist, non familiar with Arabic, cowards etc etc-the problems with your God will vanish.

Unfortunately, its your God & his hate speech which is on trial.

Is it racism & hate speech to call the Jews donkeys with books or not?

I am not your Allah, so trying to find faults like racism etc with me won't defend Allah.If your God is perfect & if you think that racism is bad, then surely you can answer?

Is it racist to call Jews donkeys with books or not?

Your attempts to characterize me as racist et al won't in the least make your God more pleasant, however, showing how he is non racist surely will.

Please show-is it racist or non racist to call Jews donkeys with books? ???

abdalquran

I told you, I will enter this discussion with you about jews when you answer the previous questions. You have run away and i think its clear now to the forum what an utter coward you are.

I will repeat, for the last time. If you have guts, you will answer. If not, it won't surprise me

You quote 62/5 which chastises the jews for not CARRYING (yahmiloo) the tauraat
According to you, this means that Quran wants them to follow the TORAH (from which you quoted from laws).

Is this correct or wrong? Upon your answer, we will proceed

This question essentially clarifies YOUR initial post but I think you know, once you answer this, you will be caught

Rami

First, the first criticizer of the Jews or Israelites was Yahweh Himself.

Second, the expression donkeys with books is not insulting to the Jews specifically, but anyone who caries a book and claim to believe in it and identify himself with it but doesn't follow it is indeed like a donkey carrying books. It is not degrading to the donkey but a donkey doesn't care or know the specificities of the load on his back.

Fawzia

Even criticism of other people is not unique to the Quran.

Sure, but that is tu quoque logical fallacy, to say that something isn't bad because so & so other people have also done it.

Saudis call blacks "abd" "zinji" etc disparagingly, racism isn't unique to them some Americans call Blacks niggers.

Does this justify or exonerate Saudi racism?

The Torah mocks Egypt as the place of sin. The NT bashes the Jews consistently. etc.

And that makes the Quran's bashing of Jews, Christians, idolators all right?

Turkey colonized Greece, that makes Netherlands' colonization of Indonesia allright?

Thats tu quoque logical fallacy again.

Many Jews don't believe in their books. Many Christians become atheists.

Who cares what anyone thinks. I know one thing for certain, truth is truth and it will prevail independent to what you and I believe or think, no matter what it is.

What these books preach is important, as they mould millions & billions of folks.

Thus if the NT bashes Jews, that became good excuse for the Church to persecute Jews for millennia, ditto with the Quran bashing Jews, that has often contributed to anti Semitism in Muslim lands.

Hate speech leads to hate crimes.

Fawzia

I told you, I will enter this discussion with you about jews when you answer the previous questions. You have run away and i think its clear now to the forum what an utter coward you are.
This question essentially clarifies YOUR initial post but I think you know, once you answer this, you will be caught )

Oooh! Delightful! Now a new adjective for me! bravo An "utter coward". First racist, smeegol, non Arabic speaker etc.

What fear would I have of being caught please? Do you imagine that I am Satan? >D

I have revealed pretty much about myself, "catching" me won't defend Islam as you seem to fancy.

You have to defend Quran & Allah or Muhammad's hate speech in it.

As a non racist who despises any signs of racism, as well as a Quranist Muslim, trying to make me into a Shaitan won't make your Quran right. If the Quran's such a perfect book, why this massive insecurity of yours? Why repeated attempts to characterize me as a racist, coward etc? Will that increase the merits of the Quran, & obfuscate its flaws?

Can't the Quran withstand scrutiny on its own merits, without your attempts to blacken the character of every apostate?

So is it racism or not? Is it non racist to call Jews "donkeys with books,"?

Rami

Sure, but that is tu quoque logical fallacy, to say that something isn't bad because so & so other people have also done it.

Saudis call blacks "abd" "zinji" etc disparagingly, racism isn't unique to them some Americans call Blacks niggers.

Does this justify or exonerate Saudi racism?

And that makes the Quran's bashing of Jews, Christians, idolators all right?

Turkey colonized Greece, that makes Netherlands' colonization of Indonesia allright?

Thats tu quoque logical fallacy again.

What these books preach is important, as they mould millions & billions of folks.

Thus if the NT bashes Jews, that became good excuse for the Church to persecute Jews for millennia, ditto with the Quran bashing Jews, that has often contributed to anti Semitism in Muslim lands.

Hate speech leads to hate crimes.

It is all right if it is the truth. If it is not the truth, it is not. Whatever the truth is.

Why don't you bash the rest? Go and bash the Jews and Christians in their sites and forums.

Fawzia

First, the first criticizer of the Jews or Israelites was Yahweh Himself.

Proof please?

Anyone can criticise so & so & say God mandated such behavior. Thus anyone racist can call Blacks niggers, then make a new religion & say that the God said this.

Proof that Yahweh exists & Allah is this Yahweh.

Second, the expression donkeys with books is not insulting to the Jews specifically, but anyone who caries a book and claim to believe in it and identify himself with it but doesn't follow it is indeed like a donkey carrying books. It is not degrading to the donkey but a donkey doesn't care or know the specificities of the load on his back.

Unfortunately for you, Quran specifically mentions Jews, sure it doesn't degrade donkeys, when did I claim it degrades donkeys?

062.005
YUSUFALI The similitude of those who were charged with the (obligations of the) Mosaic Law, but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is that of a donkey which carries huge tomes (but understands them not). Evil is the similitude of people who falsify the Signs of Allah and Allah guides not people who do wrong.
PICKTHAL The likeness of those who are entrusted with the Law of Moses, yet apply it not, is as the likeness of the ass carrying books. Wretched is the likeness of folk who deny the revelations of Allah. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR The likeness of those who were charged with the Taurat, then they did not observe it, is as the likeness of the ass bearing books, evil is the likeness of the people who reject the communications of Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
FREE MINDS The example of those who were given the Torah, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of the people who denied the revelations of God. And God does not guide the wicked people.

By specifically mentioning Jews, then comparing them with donkeys with books, Allah &\or Muhammad is insulting millions of people.

Rami

Oooh! Delightful! Now a new adjective for me! bravo An "utter coward". First racist, smeegol, non Arabic speaker etc.

What fear would I have of being caught please? Do you imagine that I am Satan? >

I have revealed pretty much about myself, "catching" me won't defend Islam as you seem to fancy.

You have to defend Quran & Allah or Muhammad's hate speech in it.

As a non racist who despises any signs of racism, as well as a Quranist Muslim, trying to make me into a Shaitan won't make your Quran right. If the Quran's such a perfect book, why this massive insecurity of yours? Why repeated attempts to characterize me as a racist, coward etc? Will that increase the merits of the Quran, & obfuscate its flaws?

Can't the Quran withstand scrutiny on its own merits, without your attempts to blacken the character of every apostate?

So is it racism or not? Is it non racist to call Jews "donkeys with books,"?

Donkeys with books is an acquired title. It is only for the people who were given the Torah but didn't follow it. But the followers of the Torah are actually praised!!

Muslims today can be considered donkeys carrying the Quran.

abdalquran

Fawzia, I tell you what. I'll do this for you. I will address 62/5 and any other 'anti-jewish hate speech' in Quran on two conditions

that you give your oath as a decent human being to answer all my inquires regarding your initial argument about the Torah.
that you give your oath as a decent human being to answer all my counter questions about the 'jews in the quran'.

Yes or no?

upon your agreement, we will proceed.

Fawzia

It is all right if it is the truth. If it is not the truth, it is not. Whatever the truth is.

Why don't you bash the rest? Go and bash the Jews and Christians in their sites and forums.

Is it the truth Rami?

Does not upholding the Taurat make Jews donkeys with books, if they lead, decent law abiding lives?

I don't bash Jews & Christians coz I wasn't born to parents adhering to that faith, I was born to Muslim parents & raised Muslim.

There are plenty of those born Jewish & Muslim bashing their religions, as a never been Jew\Christian, I don't need to add my voice to that.

Donkeys with books is an acquired title. It is only for the people who were given the Torah but didn't follow it. But the followers of the Torah are actually praised!!

And whats wrong in not following if the people lead decent, law abiding lives? I know Jews who have bacon, they have great jobs, families, contribute to charity etc, are they "donkeys wth books?"

And who is Allah &\or Muhammad to decide how Jews should lead their lives? Why not leave their lives to them?

Rami

Is it the truth Rami?

Does not upholding the Taurat make Jews donkeys with books, if they lead, decent law abiding lives?

I don't bash Jews & Christians coz I wasn't born to parents adhering to that faith, I was born to Muslim parents & raised Muslim.

There are plenty of those born Jewish & Muslim bashing their religions, as a never been Jew\Christian, I don't need to add my voice to that.

And whats wrong in not following if the people lead decent, law abiding lives? I know Jews who have bacon, they have great jobs, families, contribute to charity etc, are they "donkeys wth books?"

And who is Allah &\or Muhammad to decide how Jews should lead their lives? Why not leave their lives to them?

The problem is that you don't believe in something called God anyway. So your worldview is different.

Fawzia

Fawzia, I tell you what. I'll do this for you. I will address 62/5 and any other 'anti-jewish hate speech' in Quran on two conditions

Again, if your book is so good & true, why this massive insecurity? Am I Satan's spawn that Allah has ordered you to fight?

Why do you need to keep characterizing me as "racist, smeegol....." to defend your Allah?

Can't you defend him without all that?

If Allah & Quran are all that good, you don't need to be so harassed over me, I'm not supposed to be perfect, Allah is.

So defend perfect Allah, is it racist hate speech to call Jews donkeys with books or not?

Counter attacking me makes it seem that Allah is incapable of being defended on his own merits.

herbman

Bernard Madoff was a donkey carriing books and all the jewish who followed him were donkeys too. Don't you think?

So YES when someone has a book with the LIGHT and still persist in corrupting the world is a DONKEY. what is the problem with that, because your boyfriend is jewish doesn't mean he is a donkey as long as he doesn't act as Madoff.

regards

Fawzia

The problem is that you don't believe in something called God anyway. So your worldview is different.

Quite right, I don't. So I don't accept hate speech, sexism, homophobia or discrimination based on "God\s." However, I do believe that such hate speech is wrong, & I won't judge God's hate speech on a different standard compared to anyone else's.

Thus, if an atheist is called a donkey with books by an Evangelist simply for not believing in God, I won't accept such hate speech. Likewise I won't accept Allah's characterization of decent Jews as "donkeys with books."

abdalquran

ROFL, so even with my agreeing to answer you on the condition that you answer my questions regarding your OWN arguments, you won't do it?

Who's being insecure? I don't mind answering ANY , i repeat ANY , points you have about 'jews in the quran and hate speech' issue. Im just waitng for your word as a decent human being that you will stick around and answer all my counter-queries.

Do you think it's fair for you to level charges yet run away to the next topic when challenged? I know you islamophobes need to somehow cling to your delusions to justify your personal vendetta against islam for your personal problems but go do it in the privacy of your own toilet. If you wanna use this forum then you need to be coherent, credible and informed.....or be like you.

So...I will put my offer forward again

I will address 62/5 and any other 'anti-jewish hate speech' in Quran on two conditions

that you give your oath as a decent human being to answer all my inquires regarding your initial argument about the Torah.
that you give your oath as a decent human being to answer all my counter questions about the 'jews in the quran'.

So come on Fawzia, we're dealing with YOUR issues here. Don't be a chicken, come forward and deal with your own queries. I answer your queries, you answer mine.

Rami