The concept of "Sin"
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I believe ithm , meaning sin is a different concept than the chrestians, jews , sunnis ....., Sin is everything that is no good for an individual, or society, that's why allah everytime he says avoid it, he never says you will be pusnished in the hearafter for that, but you will be punished if you don't make eforts to avoid it, because allah said La youkalifou allaha nafssa illa wousaaha, we are he building the life that we live in the next life, that"s the whole point of the quran, it's not about hell like a litteral hell, or paradise litterally, because allah said we started the creation and we repeat it, meaning there will be another big bang and another evolution until our time comes
that's what i learned from the quran, i don't know if i am right or wrong -
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Just for contrast, I would like to add the Buddhist perspective, which starts with the concept of suffering.
The four noble truths
Suffering is inevitable in the world due to its transient nature.
The cause of suffering is ignorant clinging to transitory phenomena.
Suffering can be reduced.
The Eightfold Path is how to reduce it.Now the interesting thing to me is how sin is primarily all about me and what I've done wrong and how I'll be punished, while suffering takes into consideration the harm that my sin causes other beings.
Can you see the difference?
Of course, reducing sin also reduces suffering, but there is something slightly more elevated about the perspective of suffering/karma than sin, although they work the same transformation on the soul.
Certain groups of people may be more responsive to one or the other.
It is a digression but how does ignoring reality decrease suffering. I never understood Buddhism.
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Buddhism is incomplete as far as it being a standalone religion.
The Buddha was a Hindu reformer, and his teaching was a real breakthrough in describing the human condition, but his movement was destined to become primarily esoteric and inward. This is why the most common popular image of a Buddhist is the ascetic recluse, sitting under a tree, detached from the world, and so they appear to be ignoring reality.
In fact, like all seekers, Buddhists are probing the depths of the Intellect for authentic knowledge.
I studied and learned a lot from the Buddhist perspective, but I decided that it is too much confined to the present world, in that it refuses to concern itself with objects outside of the human experience. In other words, it was too psychological for me.
The real reason for suffering is revealed to us in the Qur'an. The One who created death and life is testing us to see who is finest in action (67.2), and Allah knows best.
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Sin (i.e. transgression) is different than evil.
Evil is a necessary compliment to Good in a bipolarized universe such as ours. Allah does not "will evil" but rather, evil is like a byproduct. Without evil, the universe would be perfect, and that would make it God, since only God Alone is perfect; but the universe is not God, but rather a projection of the rahmah of Allah in the direction of nothingness. With light come shadows.
What bothers me is how He could create evil creatures that cause harm to the ecosystem with no benefit, blood sucking parasites like mites and mosquitoes and viruses. Is this a punishment?
Why test?
How else are you going to get into the next grade?
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the thing i dont get with this life being a testing ground or even say..a chance to prove to yourself whether u deserve heaven/hell, is that if this is a test then all people should have an equal chance of performing. there are many people in this world who are psychopaths/sociopaths..prone to depression/downsyndrome..how can they be judged on an equal footing? lets say, they are judged in a different way..maybe judged leniently...but its like making a dyslexic 4th grader sit a 10th grade exam..even if u mark the kid leniently,its still not his test to sit through..
for example the punishment for a murderer is either death or forgiveness, depending on the choice of the relatives of the family. suppose that a psychotic killer is behind a series of murderers,,then he should be put to death..but isnt that unfair that he should be subjected to the same laws as "normal people" -
Peace,
Respect.Outstanding subject, sister.
I'd say that sin does exist, it's just that we're told what to do and what not to do in order to avoid sin. We're also told at the same time the results of the sin once the sin is done. We're told of the previous examples, previous people and what they did.If there were no sins, then this world/life would be Paradise.
Paradise is without sins.God knows Best.
Peace. -
What is "equal chance" how can we even differentiate. everyone has diff circumstance.
no situation is equal to another, theyre all different and subjective, personal. it's an ongoing individual journey.. a path to God no ones path is the same or equal.
in regards to psychotics obviously people who are "sick/ill" are exempt off things and God judges them accordingly
would you wanna keep a psychotic killer on the loose? at least s/he'd need some medical help.
also is it unfair? did they subjugate themselves to that position (drugs etc) or did it just happen out of birth/thin air bla bla...
God isn't unjust.
We get tested for what we're able to do and what we do implement, it would be illogical otherwise.
peace.
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wootah, God did not make evil. He didn't create evil. He created human beings who chose to commit evil.
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And how do you propose that to happen in this world without violating nature, logic and free-choice?
it cant happen..thats what Im wondering..if this was a test then what is the point of creating handicapped children etc, who cannot perform at the level of other people...if a possible answer is to show other people how blessed they are, then thats not really fair on the people themselves..
im studying more..insha allah i will have abetter understanding in due time with patience and perseverence..i do not have any alternate answer as to what is the purpose of our life on earth, if not a chance to prove to ourselves whether we deserve heaven/hell...peace sis sarah, i have considered what you said before i posted...it makes sense to some extent. my argument is then why put islamic/quranic laws for all mankind, if all of mankind is not capable enough to fulfill or live up to the requirements.ofcourse it makes sense for a psychotic killer to be put to death, but then again some people are hardwired to be less attuned to emotions..more violent in other words..how can God, with His ultimate justice put the same wordly laws on that person who is less capable of controlling violent urges than other people. there are people who cant help stealing, they dont realise what theyr doing..some people are more prone to depression...why put evryone in the same boat, when there are clearly different situations for every individual on this earth?
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it cant happen..thats what Im wondering..if this was a test then what is the point of creating handicapped children etc, who cannot perform at the level of other people...if a possible answer is to show other people how blessed they are, then thats not really fair on the people themselves..
im studying more..insha allah i will have abetter understanding in due time with patience and perseverence..i do not have any alternate answer as to what is the purpose of our life on earth, if not a chance to prove to ourselves whether we deserve heaven/hell...peace sis sarah, i have considered what you said before i posted...it makes sense to some extent. my argument is then why put islamic/quranic laws for all mankind, if all of mankind is not capable enough to fulfill or live up to the requirements.ofcourse it makes sense for a psychotic killer to be put to death, but then again some people are hardwired to be less attuned to emotions..more violent in other words..how can God, with His ultimate justice put the same wordly laws on that person who is less capable of controlling violent urges than other people. there are people who cant help stealing, they dont realise what theyr doing..some people are more prone to depression...why put evryone in the same boat, when there are clearly different situations for every individual on this earth?
The short answer is everyone is not in the same boat.
Different situations/circumstances/etc. affect to what degree one's soul is burdened or lightened through positive and negative actions.
See, e.g., 3330 and 425 which describe different punishments for the same action, depending on who the doer of the action is.
Also see 335 and 2286 for the general idea that it is purposeful intentions that affect one's spiritual evolution, and that individual capacities are accounted for with regard to the tests in each life. This speaks directly to your question of laws applying to those who cannot control urges, e.g.
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Salaam Sis,
thats what Im wondering..if this was a test then what is the point of creating handicapped children etc, who cannot perform at the level of other people...if a possible answer is to show other people how blessed they are, then thats not really fair on the people themselves..
As Sis Sarah pointed out previously, no one has the same circumstances and they will judged accordingly. I am unsure what you are proposing with ?equal chance?. Does it mean everyone should be born with exactly the same physical traits, emotional tendencies, level of intelligence, skills and capabilities? Does that mean everyone should be born in the same geographical environment, cause some people might consider it is unfair for some people to fast more due to the longer duration of one day? If that is so, then we will be like robots.
The concept of equality and fairness varies with different people. A person may be born with certain deficiencies, and yet he is thankful for life because he has many friends who love him. On the other hand, a person may be born perfectly and is physically capable and attractive, but is grudging because he does not live in a loving and peaceful environment. It all depends on what you make your circumstances to be. You choose to think that you are not given equal chance because you focus on what you can not do, rather than what you can do.
There are many different ways to prove ourselves worthy. Someone may not be able to walk, but he uses his hands to write and his mouth to reach to others, for the better of mankind. Someone may not have excess of money, but he uses his time and energy to volunteer etc. God will account for that. Just remember with every hardship, there is ease. With every weakness, there is strength. It is essentially our choice if we want to focus on the hardship rather than the ease, and vice versa, and ultimately shape our actions accordingly.
Anyway, all this talk reminds me of a guy who was born without arms and legs. People will see how unfortunate he is, and he was depressed at one stage of his life, and yet he overcame time. He is happy with life (at least with what I can see on the surface anyway), and does the most of it. He is happier and able to give more than people who were born with everything
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ZuKF3dxCY
im studying more..insha allah i will have abetter understanding in due time with patience and perseverence..i do not have any alternate answer as to what is the purpose of our life on earth, if not a chance to prove to ourselves whether we deserve heaven/hell...
It is good that you constantly strive for knowledge, but don?t let that frustrate you. Take it slowly. As some people have pointed out to me before Islam is supposed to be a system that serves us. It is a sign of God?s mercy to us. When you start feeling uneasy and discontented when you do something for Islam, step back and think. Maybe there is nothing wrong with Islam and God, maybe it?s just our perspectives, our endless worrying, our excessive analysis and calculation that makes our Deen seems so complicated. We are supposed to enjoy what we do, and not stress over it too much. When we stress too much and not feel contented at all, then we really miss the spirit of Islam. If you feel certain things are off, then don?t do it if they will impose burdens upon you. Save that for later, when you attain more knowledge and more confidence with your innocence. Go with what you are sure you know, and that will make you contented.
Our purpose on earth? Well, everyone has different take and interpretation really. If you feel it is a chance for us to prove ourselves if we deserve heaven or hell, and see the wisdom in that, then it becomes your purpose of being here.
peace sis sarah, i have considered what you said before i posted...it makes sense to some extent. my argument is then why put islamic/quranic laws for all mankind, if all of mankind is not capable enough to fulfill or live up to the requirements.
The way I see it, Islam is not as rigid at all. There are provisions for people based on their circumstances. There are unlawful food for mankind, and yet if we are in poverty and forced by hunger, then it is not ?sinful? for us to eat the food. We are told to give regular charity, but the poor people are exempted from this commandment. And the list can go on. Hence why we are given the ability to think, to make judgments based on our knowledge.
Salaam.
/end of the preacher?s mode.
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it cant happen..thats what Im wondering..if this was a test then what is the point of creating handicapped children etc, who cannot perform at the level of other people...if a possible answer is to show other people how blessed they are, then thats not really fair on the people themselves..
im studying more..insha allah i will have abetter understanding in due time with patience and perseverence..i do not have any alternate answer as to what is the purpose of our life on earth, if not a chance to prove to ourselves whether we deserve heaven/hell...peace sis sarah, i have considered what you said before i posted...it makes sense to some extent. my argument is then why put islamic/quranic laws for all mankind, if all of mankind is not capable enough to fulfill or live up to the requirements.ofcourse it makes sense for a psychotic killer to be put to death, but then again some people are hardwired to be less attuned to emotions..more violent in other words..how can God, with His ultimate justice put the same wordly laws on that person who is less capable of controlling violent urges than other people. there are people who cant help stealing, they dont realise what theyr doing..some people are more prone to depression...why put evryone in the same boat, when there are clearly different situations for every individual on this earth?
Peace sis,
Here's another verse you should ponder.
2362 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.
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Peace sis,
Here's another verse you should ponder.
2362 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.
+1
IMO, the most relevant reference for your concern of "fairness" period. For we can't even actually delve into the minds of those we call 'psychotic', 'prone to depression', 'less attuned to emotions' etc. The second best approach would be to follow the advise from someone who actually knows everything that happens inside those minds and also, the consequences.
Re "chance to prove to ourselves whether we deserve heaven/hell", do you mind if i ask you, rraza, what is it that's so important about "us/ourselves" being "worthy/deserving" of heaven/hell?
Verse 5156 might be the answer to your question ("purpose" though at this moment i can't say that i'm 100% certain myself about the meaning of the last word. It is beyond heaven/hell for sure, and i can't emphasize enough how closely it is related to the Narrator of this verse.
