Why does the Quran matter?
-
I think it would be very wrong to insult the Quran in such a way for even a kafir like me can appreciate the beauty in it. What I meant was that regarding scripture as truth and the only truth is rubbish. The Quran and Bible are one of many sources of knowledge and morality, nothing more and nothing less. However, there are parts of both, like any book, which contain rubbish.
"Listen pal, don't change the subject. The subject is NOT 'can I live without the quran'. I already said that in the Quran, NOWHERE does it put itself as the exclusive source of truth and morality. NOWHERE.
The subject is, 'is the quran utter rubbish'. You claim it is. So I told you what it says about the validity of one's faith and its link to helping orphans and the poor (107/1-3). Do you consider THIS to be utter rubbish?
Please, have the integrity to face the question".
It does. Every holy book holds itself as the truth and only truth. Please have the integrity to see substance over form, actions and practices of the adherents over 1500 years tell you all you need to know. Let
s not waste time googling examples you know what Im talking about. -
Do you see the phrase ?because your book says so?. Now WHERE does my book say so? Notice the title of this thread is ?why does the QURAN matter?.
I wonder why we?re playing ?shift the goalposts? a lot here? Maybe its because we haven't done our research?Substance over form. Actions speak louder than words. I`m not going to waste time googling an answer. Anyway speaking of integrity. What about the verses I quoted above? Why are they being ignored? Just firming up the goalposts.
-
the determination of what is virtous should be drawn from one`s own conscience and a reasonable and enlightened mind should never consider only 1 source as the truth.
In discussion one need not be evasive. How conscience and a reasonable and enlightened mind is developed? Book(s) or inner illusions/halucination/random thoughts emergingin heart and mind.
-
In discussion one need not be evasive. How conscience and a reasonable and enlightened mind is developed? Book(s) or inner illusions/halucination/random thoughts emergingin heart and mind.
I am restating answers. Education, morality, parents. What we have today to develop conscience and a reasonable and enlightened mind is the result of 000
s of years of civilization. I would quote the renaissance, french and american revolution, rise and fall of communism as being key to this. Of course certain parts of the world have yet to have their renaissance which explains why they appear to be 00s of years behind. -
Every holy book holds itself as the truth and only truth.
Please quote just one book, other than Qur'aan, wherein this claim is made by the book itself and is recorded therein. If you cannot find then please withdraw your generalized statement. Pl note we are talking with reference to book and not the gossip of people and writers.
-
Please quote just one book, other than Qur'aan, wherein this claim is made by the book itself and is recorded therein. If you cannot find then please withdraw your generalized statement. Pl note we are talking with reference to book and not the gossip of people and writers.
Let us now use logic to solve this for surely this is what we have in common. If your book is right, the Hindhu/Christian/Buddhist/every other religious book is wrong. If theirs is right, then yours is wrong. By simple elimination, yours holds itself to be the only one right, by virtue of being unique and therefore different from the rest. Simple logic and reason would prove that only 1 can be right when all have different answers to a question which supposedly has only 1 right answer, hence truth.
-
I am restating answers. Education, morality, parents. What we have today to develop conscience and a reasonable and enlightened mind is the result of 000
s of years of civilization. I would quote the renaissance, french and american revolution, rise and fall of communism as being key to this. Of course certain parts of the world have yet to have their renaissance which explains why they appear to be 00s of years behind.Again evasive. All what is said is the result of knowledge and experience. Both are passed on ONLY through the book(s). Anything beyond the books is treated as gossip and conjectures, at best opinions. What makes one to hesitate to accept in straight words that the source of Knowledge is the book and it is knowledge that shapes everything else.
-
Please quote just one book, other than Qur'aan, wherein this claim is made by the book itself and is recorded therein. If you cannot find then please withdraw your generalized statement. Pl note we are talking with reference to book and not the gossip of people and writers.
Let us now use logic to solve this for surely this is what we have in common. If your book is right, the Hindhu/Christian/Buddhist/every other religious book is wrong. If theirs is right, then yours is wrong. By simple elimination, yours holds itself to be the only one right, by virtue of being unique and therefore different from the rest. Simple logic and reason would prove that only 1 can be right when all have different answers to a question which supposedly has only 1 right answer, hence truth.
From specifics you take me to bewilderness. I did not say that I say Qur'aan is right or unique. I am not talking about my claim and claim of other people. In response to your statement I requested to quote the claim of the book not of people.
-
Again evasive. All what is said is the result of knowledge and experience. Both are passed on ONLY through the book(s). Anything beyond the books is treated as gossip and conjectures, at best opinions. What makes one to hesitate to accept in straight words that the source of Knowledge is the book and it is knowledge that shapes everything else.
Books are written sources of knowledge. Books must always be scrutinised, challenged, amended for mistakes. Once errors are discovered, the book must be discarded and a new one produced. See physics, chemistry and biology for books on the truth. These books are changed all the time as we discover that what once was considered to be true is actually false. To truly consider it a source of knowledge, the book must be open to change and revision. This which cannot must surely be discarded.
-
From specifics you take me to bewilderness. I did not say that I say Qur'aan is right or unique. I am not talking about my claim and claim of other people. In response to your statement I requested to quote the claim of the book not of people.
I don
t understand your bewilderness. It does not matter what you say. Again a call for logic and reasoning. If Book A claims that there is one God and A is its prophet, and Book B claims that there are 2 Gods and B is the prophet, regardless of what you say or think, only 1 can be true. Whether you claim it or not is irrelevant. It claims to be the only truth purely by claiming to be the truth, which is different from other truths. Therefore, by definition there can only be one truth. Is that hard to understand? -
Books are written sources of knowledge. Books must always be scrutinised, challenged, amended for mistakes. Once errors are discovered, the book must be discarded and a new one produced. See physics, chemistry and biology for books on the truth. These books are changed all the time as we discover that what once was considered to be true is actually false.
So We agree that books are the source of knowledge. Hence, would you agree, they need not and should not be considered as rubbish on face value. They should be read critically, statements recorded therein be subjected to scrutiny and ground realities to differentiate whether the statement is a fact or mere conjecture/opinion not worth of considered as truth. If one statement of any book is found against the fact, it shall put every other statement contained therein as doubtful.
You asked me to see physics, chemistry, biology for books on the "truth". And immediately after you stated these books arechanged all the time....is actually false. On this argument how can you be sure that what is written in those today will not be discarded as false? If not why you wish to cheat yourself by the opinionated "truth" of today and falsity of tomorrow.To truly consider it a source of knowledge, the book must be open to change and revision. This which cannot must surely be discarded.
Do you differentiate between opinion, truth and fact?
-
I don
t understand your bewilderness. It does not matter what you say. Again a call for logic and reasoning. If Book A claims that there is one God and A is its prophet, and Book B claims that there are 2 Gods and B is the prophet, regardless of what you say or think, only 1 can be true. Whether you claim it or not is irrelevant. It claims to be the only truth purely by claiming to be the truth, which is different from other truths. Therefore, by definition there can only be one truth. Is that hard to understand?Request was limited to substantiate your claim that every holy book claims that it is truth and only truth. Which book is that which has made this tall claim, forget about other statements of one or two or three gods or many many gods.
-
Hello, Peace,
Why does the quran matter? What if a person believes in God and not in any of the other requirements of Islam? what if I believe in God, live a virtous life, eat pork and drink alcohol (but don`t commit crimes).. Am I not as good a person as any Muslim? Look at what the Quran teaches
Hatred of the infidel
Hatred of anybody who does not belive in the Quran
Disrespect for anybody who does not belive in what the Quran wants
Disregard for the beliefs of any person who has an opinion different to the QuranIt`s clear that Islam is a political ideology which has hijacked a religion. There is no peace in Islam until all others have been conquered, then there is peace with the vanquished Dhimi. Think for yourselves. The greatest power a human has is the ability to think. Islam is just another paradigm which limits the ability of your thoughts to reach outside of the box to find the truth. Think about it. Why do you need to care about what the Quran or even the bible wants? If you truly are a free mind, then why do you need to restrict your life? You know what is right and wrong, not from the Quran but from common sense, from what your parents teach you. Conscience is the highest form of justice, not some book. Your heart will tell you whether your actions are right or wrong. Your conscience will guide you over whether you have done the right or wrong thing. If you feel that eating pork is wrong, then it is wrong. If you feel that eating chicken is wrong, then it is wrong. What do you need the Quran for?
I guess you are describing the man-made religion called sunnism, or christianism, or judaism, or whatever human has invented as The Religion.
God left us here on this planet to find the truth by ourselves. He did not send prophets to tell us why would he need to do that when he could easily make us all aware of it in a heartbeat? The words of the prophets are the product of fear, ignorance and insanity. Search your hearts for the truth. Think for yourselves. Worship god, live a virtous life, love your fellow man. Ignore the divise and hate inducing Quran and Bible which hijack the truth and God
s name for political gain. Ignore the insanity. Live a good life and when you face god, tell Him that you have done your best in life and surely his mercy will be with you. God gave you consciousness and thought so you could think for yourselves. Us it and you will find the truth. Think. Think. Why does God care whether you eat pork, drink alcohol if you are able to do so in moderation? Its because god didn`t ask you to. Man did. Man in all his pomp and delusions of immortality felt that he could interpret the word of God. The words of man who are trying to fool you into believing that this is the word of God.Live your lives in peace and live well. Don`t care about what the holy books and the priests and imans who have pulled the cloth over the eyes of the world want. When you meet your maker, tell him you have lived a good life and surely the Gates of Paradise will be open for you. Do not accept this religion which makes you hate your fellow man, and makes your fellow man hate you. We no longer need religion as we are able to think for ourself. And for those who are unable to do so, the law will deal with them. Think for yourselves and reject the falsehoods which religions force onto you.
Well, in a way you are right, you don't need any book to live a righteous life, full of moral etc etc.
But, then what is the goal of your life, what is the purpoise, why are you here on earth?
You will not be able to answer this question without The Book. You can try to answer, but surely it will be only suppositions based on conjectures.Peace
-
Dear Humanist,
Great views, but the problem is, the world has boundaries, people have differences, If everyone started living according to his own conscious of right and wrong, the result will not be good, the world had faced such things before and we need great people/visionaries to give great ideas/thoughts to unite people under some common good.Even after so many discoveries and development, we still don't have a perfect system without problems, every society has their problems and people still suffer, countries/people still make profit selling mass destruction weapons or fight for control of resources or dominance.
Still every country believes that Nuclear weapons make them mighty and strong, that shows how cruel this world is.
There's inequality everywhere, Equal works are not rewarded equally, Some are still working like slaves and some lead a lavish lifestyle sucking the bloods of those others who doesn't have the opportunity.Many of the things you consider as Islam comes from the Hadiths (History book of Mohammed) and from the kingdoms that used these false history(History) to implement their own rigid ideas and rules for their selfish gains, These kind of things happens even now as we can see how democracy and capitalism hijacked by America for their selfish gains and how thousands of innocents killed in the name of war against terrorism.
Coming to Quran, Quran doesn't have any miracle,
I think, Quran or any other previous scriptures doesn't teach us how to live. Its a message of oneness of GOD,there is one GOD for everyone so don't fight among yourself and make peace (ISLAM). Everything else in Quran is for Mohammed and the people around him that day for solving their problems according to the prevailing conditions then and many here analyse those and get signs to lead a better life and they dont want to associate themselves with main stream so called rigid muslims.I know that I will get the guidance from GOD by doing good and seek guidance with patience, a Quranic message.
-
Dear Humanist,
Great views, but the problem is, the world has boundaries, people have differences, If everyone started living according to his own conscious of right and wrong, the result will not be good, the world had faced such things before and we need great people/visionaries to give great ideas/thoughts to unite people under some common good.Even after so many discoveries and development, we still don't have a perfect system without problems, every society has their problems and people still suffer, countries/people still make profit selling mass destruction weapons or fight for control of resources or dominance.
Still every country believes that Nuclear weapons make them mighty and strong, that shows how cruel this world is.
There's inequality everywhere, Equal works are not rewarded equally, Some are still working like slaves and some lead a lavish lifestyle sucking the bloods of those others who doesn't have the opportunity.Many of the things you consider as Islam comes from the Hadiths (History book of Mohammed) and from the kingdoms that used these false history(History) to implement their own rigid ideas and rules for their selfish gains, These kind of things happens even now as we can see how democracy and capitalism hijacked by America for their selfish gains and how thousands of innocents killed in the name of war against terrorism.
I think, Quran or any other previous scriptures doesn't teach us how to live. Its a message of oneness of GOD,
there is one GOD for everyone so don't fight among yourself and make peace (ISLAM). Everything else in Quran is for Mohammed and the people around him that day for solving their problems according to the prevailing conditions then and many here analyse those and get signs to lead a better life and they dont want to associate themselves with main stream so called rigid muslims.I know that I will get the guidance from GOD by doing good and seek guidance with patience, a Quranic message.
We have the law to govern how we live. And the difference between the law and your Quran is that people actually agreed on the law, society accepts the law as necessary otherwise it would fall apart. But the law is subject to change, the law is always subject to change depending on new developments, while the Quran can never be changed, even when it is blatantly wrong. This is why the Quran can never be a source for law and order, because there is no room for improvement. There is no compromise, there is no arguement, there is no debate, there is no changing circumstances. IF I wish to eat pork, drink alcohol, change to another religion, marry a non muslim man(if a was a woman), I cannot do this. This is wrong. It is basic human rights to chose for myself what I wish to do. Your book can never allow this for it is intolerant. No matter how this website tries to spin it, the arguement falls flat. What we consider to be true and right must always be subject to challenge and it must be able to change. Evolution is a constant, everything changes. How can you ask anybody to base their life on a 1500 year old book which remains unchanged?
-
You asked me to see physics, chemistry, biology for books on the "truth". And immediately after you stated these books arechanged all the time....is actually false. On this argument how can you be sure that what is written in those today will not be discarded as false? If not why you wish to cheat yourself by the opinionated "truth" of today and falsity of tomorrow.
Do you differentiate between opinion, truth and fact?
Exactly, how do you know what is true today will not be false tomorrow? Well obviously certain things are evident. Man once believed the world was flat. this was true until man circled the globe. books and maps which contained maps of a flat world were immediately declared wrong and changed accordingly. Man once believed that the earth was the centre of the universe. Once discovered to be false, all books and sources of knowledge were changed.
Man once believed that God created man in his own image, and created Adam as the first man. Subsequently, we have discovered that man evolved from an ape like species in a process known as evolution, over millions of years. Evidence of this is given by the existance of dinosaurs 65 millions years before man. Therefore, it is impossible that god created man for there were dinosaurs and other beings before man. Those who invented the story of Adam could not have know about dinosaurs for surely they would have mentioned this in their fantasy books.
Now we know that the books which talk about Adam and not evolution and dinosaurs is wrong. Can we change that book? Can the book be changed? The book which considers itself to be the ultimate source of truth and way of life for humans to follow, has been proven to be wrong. Why would man still believe in it? we no longer believe in the book which says the world is flat, why believe in the book which says that man was created by God in his own image, disproved by evolution?
Logical, rational and intelligent man, given his consciousness by God. Why would he believe in something which has been proven wrong? Surely, it is because these words in the book are imperfect, for only the word of God could be perfect, and God has not spoken for he want
s us to find the truth for ourself. If the book does not contain the word of God, why would you follow it? Aesops fables and it`s stories of morality would surely be a better read than the verses. -
We have the law to govern how we live. And the difference between the law and your Quran is that people actually agreed on the law, society accepts the law as necessary otherwise it would fall apart. But the law is subject to change, the law is always subject to change depending on new developments, while the Quran can never be changed,
The quran gives us a set of principles to live by, like do not kill exept in self defence and others like the ten commandments, appart from this all it says is to obey the law-law which you people set up by agreement, which is also what you are saying.
even when it is blatantly wrong.
things that seem wrong are actualy mistranslations or changes to the original quran-like people changing into apes and pigs in the quran or Abraham killing his son and as you are also saying shouldn't be accepted at all.
This is why the Quran can never be a source for law and order, because there is no room for improvement.
you can make your own personal adjustments who minds?
There is no compromise, there is no arguement, there is no debate, there is no changing circumstances. IF I wish to eat pork, drink alcohol, change to another religion, marry a non muslim man(if a was a woman), I cannot do this. This is wrong.
That is what people here are doing and finding there own ways to live their lives.
It is basic human rights to chose for myself what I wish to do.
absolutely.
Your book can never allow this for it is intolerant.
well don't follow it-It's so simple! No?
The people who can't or don't realise that it's there loss.Isn't it?
No matter how this website tries to spin it, the arguement falls flat. What we consider to be true and right must always be subject to challenge and it must be able to change.
And that is what the people here are saying and doing.
Evolution is a constant, everything changes. How can you ask anybody to base their life on a 1500 year old book which remains unchanged?
Absolutely right.
peace
-
Hi simple, I think you might be talking about the wrong religion. I
m too lazy to think for myself here, and fortunately I wont need to. There is so much anti islamic literature on the internet which is easily copied and pasted. Well, if you can copy and paste scripture, perhaps it would be better to copy and paste something which is based on a reaction to 1500 years of scripture in action, in substance. I wonder why its so hard to find this kind of literature and writing about Buddhism, or Shintoism, despite being pagan worship which is hated by your religion. maybe its because these religions are actually tolerant and genuinely peaceful, instead of just claiming to be?Given that the message of the Koran is so clear regarding the blasphemy of Christians, and the need for Muslims to dominate them, it is a bit odd why any Islamic scholars would be calling for peace or dialog with Christians today. In fact, such Muslims are violating the commands of their own Koran, which they believe are given directly from God, pure and without error. The Koran is clear Muslims are not to dialog with Christians, they are to condemn them and dominate them, forcing them into submission.
The Surah clearly disproves anyone who would claim that Islam is a religion of peace or tolerance. After a bit of a vague start in the first three verses, it gets right to the point
614 ?Truly Allah loves those who fight in his cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.? Couldn?t be more clear, could it? Allah is a god of war, one who likes a well-disciplined fighting force.
The Koran then goes on to teach that Jesus prophesied the coming of Muhammad, literally by name. Sounds too crazy to believe, I know, but here it is
616 ?And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said ?O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah sent to you, confirming the Law which came before me, and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.??
Those Christians who would deny that Jesus ever said such a thing are liars, inventing falsehoods, as described in the next verses
617-8 ?Who does greater wrong than one who invents falsehood against Allah, even as he is being invited to Islam? And Allah guides not those who do wrong. Their intention is to extinguish Allah?s light by blowing with their mouths But Allah will complete the revelation of his light, even though the unbelievers may detest it.?
On numerous occasions in the Koran, it is stated that Islam must be the dominant religion, as in the very next verse, following up on how the Christians are liars for denying that Jesus prophesied Muhammad
619 ?It is he who has sent his messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that he may make it a conqueror of all religion, even though the idolaters may detest it.?
How are Muslims to respond to the Christians and other idolaters who would deny these truths? In the very next verses, the Koran answers clearly jihad, holy war.
6110-11 ?O you who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a painful doom? That you believe in Allah and his messenger, and that you strive your utmost in the cause of Allah with your money and your lives. That will be best for you, if you but knew!?
The reward for laying down your money and life in holy war? Wiping out your sins and a ticket to eternal paradise, as explained in the subsequent verse
6112 ?He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in gardens of eternity that is indeed the supreme achievement.?
Jumping back to Surah nine to see what else it says about how Muslims should treat Christians
929 ?Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the tribute tax with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.?
There are two seemingly positive and tolerant passage about Christianity in the Koran, but they both turn out to be shams
547-48 ?Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by the light of what Allah has revealed, they are no better than those who rebel. To you We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that has come to you. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but His plan is to test you in what He has given you so vie with one another in good works. The goal of you all is to Allah. It is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute.?
However, this passage is actually a sham tolerance, a mockery of tolerance. Verses 47-48 affirm the true Gospel as Allah revealed it. But the Koran is clear in condemning what we know as Christianity as a blasphemy, a corruption of the Gospel that was truly revealed from the Book of Allah. The Koran condemns Christianity as a blasphemy to be fought against, because they assert that Christianity is not based on the Gospel as Jesus proclaimed it.
Thus, there is tolerance for Christianity as the Muslims approve it, which is a Christianity that denies Christ was the Son of God, but there is no tolerance for Christianity as Christians actually practice it, venerating Jesus as the Son. The tolerant verse above only affirms tolerance for the Gospel according to Islam, which of course makes the whole concept of tolerance a total sham.
The one other passage in the Koran that is supposedly also tolerant (2256 ?Let there be no compulsion in religion Truth stands out clear from Error whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks.?) is also a sham. According to Islam, there are only three religions in the world, being the religions based on God?s revelation from the true Book the Koran, the Gospel, and the Torah. However, as we have seen, they do not believe that Christianity or Judaism are based on the true Gospel and Torah. According to the Koran, Christianity and Judaism as they exist in the world are actually corruptions of the true revelations found in the Gospel and the Torah. Thus, the idea that ?there shall be no compulsion in religion,? doesn?t apply, since the religions of Judaism and Christianity are not based on ?Truth,? as it says in 2256, but are actually based on blasphemous error.
-
peace
The quran doesn't even disrespect the christians let alone killing them- unless they start killing you first, the quran is mistranslated to make it a book of millitants, that is how people where enrgised in to war and even the concubines don't exist but in the mistranslation- the original quran is all about love , peace harmony, law, order, charity e.t.c This mistranslation came about long time after the prophet who loved all people irrespective of their religion to my knowledge.
but as you are rightly saying the majority of the world Muslims follow the screwed up version - some don't even follow that but in name only, they actualy follow the hadiths which is where most of the currant Islam being practissed is coming from.
The quran has some solid principles of life some of which you have shown yourself and may be others which you follow aswell, most likely.
But irrespective of books, education is what Muslims in the world lack and their tendacy to follow others-their millitant leaders is their downfall.
Can they ever get away from their millitant leaders - not a chance to my knowledge.
&
-
Sorry but it is a book of war. The prophet himself was a warlord who killed and took slaves among the Quraish. How do you think your religion spread across the continent within 20 or so years? Jihad, convert or die. You can keep saying the religion was hijacked but the reality cannot be changed. It is an ideology of power and force and this is reflected in it`s actions and the actions of its followers. either that or it is too perfect for mankind, cannot be used by mankind except for evil and therefore should be removed from our world.