How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
-
peace nima,
You might want to have a more detailed look at 2433. It does not say "let those who are not able to marry continue to be chaste untill....." It's been brought up on the thread before.
The thread is rather long, can you tell us what it says for the benefit of szuberi, or direct us to the specific post number, here is the word for word
2433
Wa lyastaAAfifi allatheena la yajidoona nikahan hatta...
and let be chaste/refrain those who not find marriage until...Assuming you translate it as "refrain", from what? (with reasoning ideally)
-
peace nima,
The thread is rather long, can you tell us what it says for the benefit of szuberi, or direct us to the specific post number, here is the word for word
2433
Wa lyastaAAfifi allatheena la yajidoona nikahan hatta...
and let be chaste/refrain those who not find marriage until...Assuming you translate it as "refrain", from what? (with reasoning ideally)
Peace Wakas
Here is what i understand
2433 And let those who are not able to marry continue to abstain until God enriches them of His Bounty.
I see two possiblities. Either abstain from
a) sex or b) marriage
Now considering that the verse is advising those who have not the means to get married, i would think that when the verse says abstain, it means abstain from marriage and not sex.
Here's a comparison i did in my mind which helped me decide
And let those who are not able to marry continue to refrain from sex until God enriches them of His Bounty.
And let those who are not able to marry continue to refrain from marriage until God enriches them of His Bounty. -
I don't understand nimnimak_11, if they are not able to marry they'll obviously refrain from marriage since they are not able to marry? That is what "not being able to marry" would mean as it is? It is obviously pointing at something other than refraining from marriage as not being able to marry automatically means that they can't but refrain from marriage. You can refrain if you have the option to do something. If you don't have the option to do it you can't do it anyway so you're refraining from it one way or the other.
It's like over on the pork threads someone said pig meat means "meat that is bad" so the verse apparently said don't eat meat that is bad because it is bad.
Peace.
*edit to correct
-
I don't understand nimnimak_11, if they are not able to marry they'll obviously refrain from marriage since they are not able to marry? That is what "not being able to marry" would mean as it is? It is obviously pointing at something other than not being able to marry as that automatically means that they can't but refrain from marriage.
It's like over on the pork threads someone said pig meat means "meat that is bad" so the verse apparently said don't eat meat that is bad because it is bad.
Peace.
Why didn't i see it that way -[
I think it was the "untill God enriches them of his bounty" part of the verse that lead me to my understanding.
I thought If you don't have the means for getting married then wait untill God provides with the means which sounded ok in my head.but the word abstain which is not the same as wait, would logically have to apply to something other than marriage and the only other thing i can think of is sex.
but then this creates a dilema IMO when taking verses such 235-6 into account as such verses say that sex with MMA leaves us blameless. Now either
a) Sex with MMA is blameless but it is better to abstain untill marriage (not a sin if you don't abstain) or
b) Sex with MMA can only happen after marriage which would then mean that there would be two sexual partners as i really can't see MMA being the same as azwaaj and morally i can't see sex being acceptable with more then one partner in a marriage so that just leaves one possiblity aSomething must be missing or misunderstood somewhere with regards to MMA and exclusivity of sex to marriage.
Peace
-
I'm still researching this MMA thing just thought I'd share my thoughts on what seemed solid imo. I have some time now to really get into it. Btw, it's refreshing discussing with you, one doesn't have to deal with "that doesn't make sense but I'll still argue about it" D
Peace.
-
I'm still researching this MMA thing just thought I'd share my thoughts on what seemed solid imo. I have some time now to really get into it. Btw, it's refreshing discussing with you, one doesn't have to deal with "that doesn't make sense but I'll still argue about it" D
Peace.
I'm glad you did and I thank you for it as it has influenced my thinking on this issue. After discussing with Aalmakto, i was in a completely uncertain state regarding this issue in terms of quranic advice. I was trying to find a verse that may perhaps suggest that abstaining from sex untill marriage might be a good thing as i still did not believe in there being anything concrete about sex being exclusive to marriage (I still don't because of MMAs) and that was the only other lead i felt i could take on the issue of relations with regards to the Quran. At the very least, 2433 (on current understanding) implies that it is better to abstain from sex untill marriage.
-
I don't understand nimnimak_11, if they are not able to marry they'll obviously refrain from marriage since they are not able to marry? That is what "not being able to marry" would mean as it is?
it is not that obvious, people do get married even if they don't have means to support a family. May be you haven't heard of this story
Question I cannot afford to get married, so please advise me on what to do to avoid lustful sins in a way that is actually practical and effective.
Answer....
Once, a young man from the Prophet?s companions came to the Prophet (S) and said to him, ?My mother and I have had nothing at all for lunch today.? He expected that the Prophet (S) would give him something, but the Prophet (S) said to him,
?Get married!?
The young man thought that the Prophet (S) did not hear him properly, so he said again, ?O messenger of Allah, I have had nothing even for lunch today. How can I get married??
The Prophet (S) said again, ?Get married!?
The young man repeated his saying and the Prophet (S) said to him, ?Get married!?
The young man was astonished that the Prophet (S) did not give him anything, though the generous Prophet (S) would give his clothes and food even to his enemies.
The young man went back to his mother and told her what the Prophet (S) had said.
The mother said, ?Surely, the Prophet (S) sees a wisdom in that.? She asked for her son?s permission to ask for their neighbor?s hand. He agreed and the girl came to her husband?s house so simply and with no cost that the wedding was on the same day.
The young man thought to himself that he could not leave his wife with no means of livelihood. Therefore, he went out of the town to collect some firewood. He sold the firewood for two dirhams. He bought some food with one dirham and saved the other to buy an axe. When he had collected four dirhams, he could afford to buy an axe to cut firewood with, in order to not hurt his hands with thorns.
After some days, he could afford to buy a camel to carry the firewood on to the market. Every morning, he went to the desert to collect firewood with his axe and then carried it on his camel to the market to sell it. On the fortieth day of his marriage, the Prophet (S) saw him in Medina leading his camel. The Prophet (S) asked him about the camel. The young man told the Prophet (S) his story. The Prophet (S) said to him, ?Did I not tell you to get married?? Later on, this young man became one of the wealthiest people of Medina.Dear brother, do not fear poverty, because fearing poverty will keep you in it! Rely on Allah sincerely and try your best to find how the promise of Allah will shine in your joint life with your wife!
-
it is not that obvious, people do get married even if they don't have means to support a family.
We aren't talking about financial problems here solely, the people in question may not be able to get married for any number of reasons. As for the story, how did he find so much firewood in the desert I wonder. With thorny wood no less. Odd.I'm glad you did and I thank you for it as it has influenced my thinking on this issue. After discussing with Aalmakto, i was in a completely uncertain state regarding this issue in terms of quranic advice. I was trying to find a verse that may perhaps suggest that abstaining from sex untill marriage might be a good thing as i still did not believe in there being anything concrete about sex being exclusive to marriage (I still don't because of MMAs) and that was the only other lead i felt i could take on the issue of relations with regards to the Quran. At the very least, 2433 (on current understanding) implies that it is better to abstain from sex untill marriage.
The MMA issue has been bothering me for a while now I must admit. Just the other day I was having a discussion about it and I realised I have to go through everything again to find a satisfactory conclusion. Previously when I've participated/read such, it hasn't been entirely spot on for me too so yeah, one of the priorities on my list.
-
it is not that obvious, people do get married even if they don't have means to support a family. May be you haven't heard of this story
Question I cannot afford to get married, so please advise me on what to do to avoid lustful sins in a way that is actually practical and effective.
Answer....
Once, a young man from the Prophet?s companions came to the Prophet (S) and said to him, ?My mother and I have had nothing at all for lunch today.? He expected that the Prophet (S) would give him something, but the Prophet (S) said to him,
?Get married!?
The young man thought that the Prophet (S) did not hear him properly, so he said again, ?O messenger of Allah, I have had nothing even for lunch today. How can I get married??
The Prophet (S) said again, ?Get married!?
The young man repeated his saying and the Prophet (S) said to him, ?Get married!?
The young man was astonished that the Prophet (S) did not give him anything, though the generous Prophet (S) would give his clothes and food even to his enemies.
The young man went back to his mother and told her what the Prophet (S) had said.
The mother said, ?Surely, the Prophet (S) sees a wisdom in that.? She asked for her son?s permission to ask for their neighbor?s hand. He agreed and the girl came to her husband?s house so simply and with no cost that the wedding was on the same day.
The young man thought to himself that he could not leave his wife with no means of livelihood. Therefore, he went out of the town to collect some firewood. He sold the firewood for two dirhams. He bought some food with one dirham and saved the other to buy an axe. When he had collected four dirhams, he could afford to buy an axe to cut firewood with, in order to not hurt his hands with thorns.
After some days, he could afford to buy a camel to carry the firewood on to the market. Every morning, he went to the desert to collect firewood with his axe and then carried it on his camel to the market to sell it. On the fortieth day of his marriage, the Prophet (S) saw him in Medina leading his camel. The Prophet (S) asked him about the camel. The young man told the Prophet (S) his story. The Prophet (S) said to him, ?Did I not tell you to get married?? Later on, this young man became one of the wealthiest people of Medina.Dear brother, do not fear poverty, because fearing poverty will keep you in it! Rely on Allah sincerely and try your best to find how the promise of Allah will shine in your joint life with your wife!
But if somone says i don't have the means to get married, this should logically imply that it is impossible for them to get married
I know some people say this based on finance which would mean they could theoretically still get married but then they should say something like i don't have as much money as i'd like to get married but i can theoretically still get married.2433 is a quranic verse so it has to make logical sense.
So in this case not having the means to get married would be like not having someone to marry (whch then makes marriage impossible)Also thank you for the advice brother. I have not experienced poverty but have experienced something like it and greatly feared it. I was praying alot and trying to be positive. What i remembered was not to get preoccupied with this life and that no matter what God will provide. I came to a similiar situation again and the experience put only a temporary fear in me but was quickly gone where as before, this fear/stress which felt like hell lasted for at least 2 to 3 weeks.
-
You might want to have a more detailed look at 2433. It does not say "let those who are not able to marry continue to be chaste untill....." It's been brought up on the thread before.
If the Quran is advising the singles to abstain from marriage until they have means to get married, how can it not prohibit an adulterous relatioship on the other hand at the same time? If you believe that sex before marriage is OK, then why in 2432, we are told to encourage the single among us to get married? The only rationale comes to mind is to prevent immorality of being in an adulterous relationship. 2432 provides the perfect context to this situation and can not be ignored.
and if this was not the case, 242 would have said "married adulteress and married adulterer"
"The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity overtake you regarding the system of God if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment"
-
-
You can't commit adultery unless you are married.
adultery
voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.
please dont get hung up on the literal word here. the arabic words "azzaniyatu wauzzani" are also translated as "the fornicatress and the fornicator". Fornication is a term that typically refers to consensual sexual intercourse between unmarried heterosexual adults
it is the MOST rediculous idea imaginable that the Quran (or any other religion whatsoever) allows pre-marital sex. this is exactly why Allah tells us in 21 that "This book is a guidance for those who fear God" and those who believe premarital sex is allowed or is OK conceptually, are certainly on the wrong path.
-
those who believe premarital sex is allowed or is OK conceptually, are certainly on the wrong path.
Fine, I'm on the wrong path. tempt
You beleive it's forbidden, refrain from it. You believe it's ok in certain circumstances, go for it. I will never understand why people get so hung up about what others do in their private life.
peace
-
I will never understand why people get so hung up about what others do in their private life.
peace
It's because it is so powerfully tied to social issues, the way in each gender regards each other, and social well-being. In marriage husband and wife have a responsibility to each other and to their children. In a non-married relationship, do you regards this as the case? Does your partner? Do informal relationships not objectify women and men, encouraging them to think of each other as a notch in the belt? How do you know that your expectations from the relationship are the same as your partners? Marriage seeks to solve or at least reduce these problems by mutually making a public promise. Why reinvent the wheel?
-
It's because it is so powerfully tied to social issues, the way in each gender regards each other, and social well-being. In marriage husband and wife have a responsibility to each other and to their children. In a non-married relationship, do you regards this as the case? Does your partner? Do informal relationships not objectify women and men, encouraging them to think of each other as a notch in the belt? How do you know that your expectations from the relationship are the same as your partners? Marriage seeks to solve or at least reduce these problems by mutually making a public promise. Why reinvent the wheel?
I understand what you're saying, liquiddharma, but I believe the issue is not as black and white as you and some others present it here. Sex without a marriage contract does NOT automatically mean that people don't care for each other, don't feel committed, or that one of the partners is being abused and / or objectified. Neither does being married mean that people act responsibly and lovingly towards each other.
I think I explained it before somewhere in this long thread, but let me try to give an example.
My friend and her partner have been together for about eight years. Everyone knows they are a couple, the extended family is involved; the parents of my friend's partner see her as the daughter in law.
They recently bought a house together, and they have two small children. She is staying at home at the moment, and he is providing for all of them; he is also paying for her education, debts she had previous to their relationship and other stuff. Should they ever decide to separate, he will still be responsible for his children under the law.So how is this objectifying anyone? Is their relationship immoral, just because they don't have a signed contract? I don't believe so. And I believe the keyword here is "public promise". Isn't it one of the key points that a couple declares to everyone that they belong together and are committed to each other?
Regarding reinventing the wheel -- I am not sure how marriages were conducted at the time of the prophet, but I am sure it was not as complicated, bureaucratic and expensive as it is nowadays. So in my eyes, a relationship such as the above described is pretty much the equivalent to an official marriage. And there are countless people living like that.
Also, I have seen so many people getting married in the Middle East just so they can move out from their parents' home and officially have sex. Is that inherently more moral than two people living together as I described above? Personally, I think no.
-
Peace Leyna )
I want to write some comments on what you have said in your post. With some of the things you have said i will agree, and with some of the things you have said i will write some constructive critisism. I think that in a philosophical discussion it is important to test the ideas of people and see if they are based on logic and reason, and to see if their arguments are valid.
I understand what you're saying, liquiddharma, but I believe the issue is not as black and white as you and some others present it here. Sex without a marriage contract does NOT automatically mean that people don't care for each other, don't feel committed, or that one of the partners is being abused and / or objectified.
True. And it is the same the other way as well Sex without a marriage contract does not automatically mean that people will care for eachother, feel commited, or that one of the partners will not be abused and / or objectified.
Neither does being married mean that people act responsibly and lovingly towards each other.
True. And it is the same the other way as well Neither does being in a relationship mean that people act responsibly and lovingly towards each other. I think responsibility is based on how much a person fear/are aware of the almighty.
I think I explained it before somewhere in this long thread, but let me try to give an example.
My friend and her partner have been together for about eight years. Everyone knows they are a couple, the extended family is involved; the parents of my friend's partner see her as the daughter in law.
They recently bought a house together, and they have two small children. She is staying at home at the moment, and he is providing for all of them; he is also paying for her education, debts she had previous to their relationship and other stuff. Should they ever decide to separate, he will still be responsible for his children under the law.So how is this objectifying anyone? Is their relationship immoral, just because they don't have a signed contract?
From my understanding of the Quran, it teaches us that if two persons want to get commited/married they do should make a promise to God. As far as i know, there are no verses in the scripture of the creator that tells us that we have to have a signed contract to get commited. As mentioned above, a couple should make a promise to God if they want to get commited. Signed contracts are most likely based on man-made culture and has nothing to do with islam. So to answer your question No, i don't think it is immoral because they don't have a signed contract. However, it might be immoral because of other reasons. Moral and immoral things we need to know about is written in the Quran. So if we check the Quranic verses, we can find the things which are moral and immoral. From my study of the Quran, those who are following other systems/religions than islam have their own rules and they will be judged according to their scriptures. So if your friend and her partner are following another system/religion, they will be judged according to their system/religion. Therefore we can not say that they are immoral. But those who are following the Quran will be judged according to the permanent and timeless laws in the Quran. From my study of Quran, if two persons are muslims, they should not follow man-made laws from culture when it comes to commitment. From my understanding of the Quran, If two persons who are muslims are following man-made laws when it comes to commitment, then they are being immoral. When it comes to moral issues, i think muslims should not follow their selfish desires/lust. I think it is vital that muslims do their best to follow the Quranic laws.
I don't believe so. And I believe the keyword here is "public promise". Isn't it one of the key points that a couple declares to everyone that they belong together and are committed to each other?
Yes. You are right.From my study of the Quran, one of the key points is that a couple declares to people that they belong together and are commited together. However, in Quran, there are other key points when it comes to commitment as well.
Regarding reinventing the wheel -- I am not sure how marriages were conducted at the time of the prophet, but I am sure it was not as complicated, bureaucratic and expensive as it is nowadays. So in my eyes, a relationship such as the above described is pretty much the equivalent to an official marriage.
I think it is a shame that many marriages are complicated, bureaucratic and expensive nowadays. And i think you have some good arguments. However, saying that relationships is pretty much the equivalent to an official marriage requires evidence from the Quran. I think it is important to bring our evidence from the Quranic verses when we are claiming something about a Quranic issue.
And there are countless people living like that.
Yes there are countless people living like that. And there are countless people telling lies, but their great number does not make lying right. If many people do something that does not mean that what they are doing is right (see 6116). Argumentum ad populum http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Also, I have seen so many people getting married in the Middle East just so they can move out from their parents' home and officially have sex. Is that inherently more moral than two people living together as I described above? Personally, I think no.
No it is not more moral. However, "two wrongs does not make one right"
http//www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#you_too -
I understand what you're saying, liquiddharma, but I believe the issue is not as black and white as you and some others present it here. Sex without a marriage contract does NOT automatically mean that people don't care for each other, don't feel committed, or that one of the partners is being abused and / or objectified. Neither does being married mean that people act responsibly and lovingly towards each other.
I think I explained it before somewhere in this long thread, but let me try to give an example.
My friend and her partner have been together for about eight years. Everyone knows they are a couple, the extended family is involved; the parents of my friend's partner see her as the daughter in law.
They recently bought a house together, and they have two small children. She is staying at home at the moment, and he is providing for all of them; he is also paying for her education, debts she had previous to their relationship and other stuff. Should they ever decide to separate, he will still be responsible for his children under the law.So how is this objectifying anyone? Is their relationship immoral, just because they don't have a signed contract? I don't believe so. And I believe the keyword here is "public promise". Isn't it one of the key points that a couple declares to everyone that they belong together and are committed to each other?
Regarding reinventing the wheel -- I am not sure how marriages were conducted at the time of the prophet, but I am sure it was not as complicated, bureaucratic and expensive as it is nowadays. So in my eyes, a relationship such as the above described is pretty much the equivalent to an official marriage. And there are countless people living like that.
Also, I have seen so many people getting married in the Middle East just so they can move out from their parents' home and officially have sex. Is that inherently more moral than two people living together as I described above? Personally, I think no.
What is immoral is the refusal to make a public promise. It shows a psychological refusal to consider yourself committed.
And whilst everything may look caring and loving, with no objectification or abuse, still there can be different expectations so one partner is using the other. Usually the woman may think they are not getting married because of the expense and inconvenience, but the man may still consider himself "unattached" and entitled to have sex with other women without considering it adultery. Because he hasn't made a public promise.
That's why I say "reinventing the wheel" because talking about couples who love each other and are living together without being married is like trying to invent a "2nd degree" marriage whereby there are a set of duties and expectations from each other which are in some way less than those you expect from a full marriage but enough to allow the couple to think they are behaving morally. This is a doomed endeavour - pretending you can have it both ways, with and without commitment - which is why such unmarried sexual relationships are frowned upon by most religious people. And this is why unmarried couples, even with children, are much more likely to split up than married couples.
-
What is immoral is the refusal to make a public promise. It shows a psychological refusal to consider yourself committed.
And whilst everything may look caring and loving, with no objectification or abuse, still there can be different expectations so one partner is using the other. Usually the woman may think they are not getting married because of the expense and inconvenience, but the man may still consider himself "unattached" and entitled to have sex with other women without considering it adultery. Because he hasn't made a public promise.
That's why I say "reinventing the wheel" because talking about couples who love each other and are living together without being married is like trying to invent a "2nd degree" marriage whereby there are a set of duties and expectations from each other which are in some way less than those you expect from a full marriage but enough to allow the couple to think they are behaving morally. This is a doomed endeavour - pretending you can have it both ways, with and without commitment - which is why such unmarried sexual relationships are frowned upon by most religious people. And this is why unmarried couples, even with children, are much more likely to split up than married couples.
But I think the Koran did talk about some form of finanacial obligation which non married couples in many societies do not have. It also talked about family involvement to some degree. Anyways we are not talking about non religious couples but religious couples. Non religious couples are driven by different forces. And plus the divorce rates in many countries that outlaws couples without a formal marriage are very high. Look at Saudi Arabia and the UAE.
Survey reveals 46pc divorce rate in UAE By a staff reporter
16 September 2005 DUBAI ? The divorce rate in the UAE has touched 46 per cent, the highest in the AGCC. The divorce rate in Qatar is 38 per cent; it is 35 per cent in Kuwait and 34 per cent in Bahrain. A study conducted in 2003 at the Prince Salman Social Centre in Riyadh has revealed that divorce rates in AGCC countries are rapidly increasing. Official statistics from various Islamic countries showed that the divorce rate is increasing annually and that it was higher in the Arab countries, ranging between 30 to 35 per cent, according to a Kuwaiti news agency.
Yet another study conducted by the Ministry of Planning in Saudi Arabia has shown that since the year 2003, the divorce rate in the kingdom has been witnessing a 20 per cent increase and that 33 women get divorced every day. In Riyadh alone, divorced women numbered 3,000 compared to 8500 marriages.
These statistics were revealed at a symposium titled 'Divorce and its Consequences on Local and International societies' organised by Juma Al Majid Centre for Culture and Heritage in cooperation with the Diplomatic Ladies Association
Marwa Kraidieh, a social researcher at Juma Al Majid Centre, said, "The statistics seem to be not very accurate but are nevertheless alarming. As part of my work and my communication with others, I found out that there are a number of hidden reasons why couples decide to get divorced and they seldom talk about the real reasons to others, claiming reasons that are far from reality as the cause.
"The way couples were raised during childhood, when they were prevented from expressing themselves freely and clearly, is considered one of the reasons for the increasing divorce rate. Some couples prefer to keep quiet rather than come out into the open. Some men intending to divorce their wives say that the wife is reckless and disobedient and prefer not to cite the real reason such as being bored with their wives or that they were having affairs. The majority of women intending to get divorced usually claim that their husbands are misers or are reckless whereas the actual reason remains hidden."
Dr Mohammed Fathi Al Hariri blamed the media for playing a strong role in increasing the divorce rate by regularly showcasing family life as a suffocating commitment and not as a paradise of love and stability.
Soaring Saudi divorce rate sparks new law
by Amy Glass on Monday, 14 July 2008RECKLESS DIVORCE Saudi Arabia?s Shura Council is considering implementing a law to halt the surging numbers of divorces in the kingdom. (Getty Images)Saudi Arabia?s Shura Council is considering implementing a law to halt the surging numbers of divorces in the kingdom.
Talal Bakri, head of the committee for family affairs at the council, told media the authority is set to begin deliberations on various provisions of a draft divorce law, UAE daily Gulf News reported on Monday.
Bakri said some husbands were resorting to reckless pronouncements of divorce, and not informing their wives, who were then ?shocked? to receive divorce papers.
The law would prevent husbands from pronouncing divorce in the absence of their wife, while divorce would only be valid if it was registered in a courtroom in the presence of the estranged couples.
The number of divorces is increasing in the kingdom, with nearly 62 percent of marriages ending in divorce.
According the newspaper, there are more than 1.5 million spinsters in Saudi Arabia - meaning women who have missed the ?optimum age? of marriage.
http//www.arabianbusiness.com/524652-surging-saudi-divorces-rate-sparks-new-law
Saudi Divorce Rate on the Rise
13/08/2007
By Sawsan HomeidanRiyadh, Asharq Al-Awsat- according to a Saudi family counselor ,the divorce rate in Saudi Arabia is on the rise, revealing that 38 percent of marriages end in divorce and that 33 percent of these divorces take place within the first three years of the marriage.
Dr. Laila al Hilali, who owns and runs a family counseling center by the same name, believes that the reason behind this increase is a result of the lack of understanding between couples, and the fact that they do not fully comprehend the proper foundations of a marriage.
Based on the cases she receives at her clinic, Dr. al Hilali said that the marital problems prevalent in Saudi Arabia stem from the fact that couples are quick to jump to conclusions without evaluating the situation properly. She believes that marriages in Saudi are bereft of the dialogue and patience required to make a marriage work.
Furthermore, she noted that spouses like to keep a record of one another's mistakes and shortcomings. They forget that they represent a united front rather than two independent individuals so that each party ends up doing what it pleases without taking the other into consideration. Dr. al Hilali also believes that the lack of romance between couples is a key factor that leads to an unfulfilling marriage. This, she upholds, can be traced back to both spouses? upbringings.
The center, she said, was established to cater to the middle- and upper-middle- class families in Saudi Arabia. It coaches young women approaching marriage by making them aware of what they can expect and what will be expected of them in return. They are also exposed to the problems that could become aggravated and lead to divorce if not immediately treated.
Moreover, al Hilali center offers counseling sessions for one or more family members, with the intention of resolving dysfunctional relationships. Dr. al Hilali revealed that group therapy is ineffectual in Saudi Arabia because Saudis are still skeptical about it.
Generally speaking, Saudi society is a private one. Most women guard their privacy very well, even during therapy. The majority of women prefer to discuss their issues in private, despite the fact that the problems they face are common ones shared by many, such as disobedience from children towards their parents.
"There are no more than five such centers in all of Saudi Arabia;" Dr. al Hilali said, "three of which are nonprofit. This is a meager number considering the size of the population. What this society really needs is at least one in every neighborhood if not more so that family problems like these can be addressed before they are allowed to fester." She speaks admiringly of a new law introduced in the UAE that prohibits couples from filing for divorce until after counseling is sought. Should the counseling fail, they can then proceed with the process.
She stressed the importance of instructing young men and women approaching marriage, claiming that it is as important as the blood test required before marriage. "We must encourage flexibility, and teach them to not consider every good deed they do in a marriage as a favor because a good marriage reflects on both the spouses,? she said.
Dr al Hilali called upon the Ministry of Interior and the Ministry of Justice to establish more family counseling centers in the country so as to remedy the rising divorce rates. Moreover, she believes that stable and loving families prevent young men from being drawn into a life of fundamentalism, since they would not feel the need to fill a void with religious extremism.
"A recent study conducted on high school students about their priorities in life shows that Saudi children place friends and reality TV before family," she revealed.
In response to the question of domestic abuse, Dr. al Hilali said that it has been an enduring predicament, but that it has come to occupy center stage due to the increased media attention and various prominent figures addressing the matter. It is her belief that domestic violence is a result of women's submissiveness and their apathy towards abuse. This is furthermore intensified, she said, by their upbringing in which they are taught to blindly obey their husbands.
Dr. al Hilali called for the collaboration of various institutions to put an end to this phenomenon which, if left untreated, will destroy the country's social infrastructure, of which family is a main constituent.
http//www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=7&id=9875
So I don't think your answer is very accurate.
-
Peace, David. peace
True. And it is the same the other way as well Sex without a marriage contract does not automatically mean that people will care for eachother, feel commited, or that one of the partners will not be abused and / or objectified.
True. And it is the same the other way as well Neither does being in a relationship mean that people act responsibly and lovingly towards each other. I think responsibility is based on how much a person fear/are aware of the almighty.
Of course. That goes without saying.
You are right.From my study of the Quran, one of the key points is that a couple declares to people that they belong together and are commited together. However, in Quran, there are other key points when it comes to commitment as well.
...I think it is a shame that many marriages are complicated, bureaucratic and expensive nowadays. And i think you have some good arguments. However, saying that relationships is pretty much the equivalent to an official marriage requires evidence from the Quran. I think it is important to bring our evidence from the Quranic verses when we are claiming something about a Quranic issue.
You are right. But I was not so much arguing from a Qur'anic viewpoint but addressing the argument that a relationship without a marriage contract automatically means people are not serious / not dedicated to each other / abusing their partner and so on.
I know the Qur'an mentions various things in regards to marriage, such as mahr etc. But personally, I am not sure if those rules should be applied nowadays exactly as they were applied back then. So I am rather looking at the intention behind them. The intention was to protect families, protect women from being kicked out on the street without means to support themselves, make sure that lineage is being protected etc.
Nowadays many countries have laws that serve this purpose very well. Plus, women are able to support themselves, they don't depend on a man to provide for them materially. And, as I mentioned before, there are laws forcing fathers to pay child support regardless of the marital status. In fact, if you take a look at countries applying secular law versus countries applying "sharia law", it becomes very obvious that the former protects women and children much better.
Yes there are countless people living like that. And there are countless people telling lies, but their great number does not make lying right. If many people do something that does not mean that what they are doing is right (see 6116). Argumentum ad populum http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
David, if you've read some of my other posts on this board, you will see that I don't believe the majority is always right, quite the opposite!
The reason I mentioned that many people are living like that was because I gave a positive example of people being together without a marriage certificate, and I was expecting some people to argue that my example was an exception rather than the norm. Which is exactly what the next poster did.
Usually the woman may think they are not getting married because of the expense and inconvenience, but the man may still consider himself "unattached" and entitled to have sex with other women without considering it adultery. Because he hasn't made a public promise.
According to my observation, this is NOT how it usually is. In fact, I find this statement quite strange.
That's why I say "reinventing the wheel" because talking about couples who love each other and are living together without being married is like trying to invent a "2nd degree" marriage whereby there are a set of duties and expectations from each other which are in some way less than those you expect from a full marriage but enough to allow the couple to think they are behaving morally.
I disagree. As I said, I know many couples living like this, and in no way do their expectations towards each other differ from those you would find in an official marriage.
I guess part of the problem in discussions like this is that we all come from different cultural and religious backgrounds, so our observations will of course be different too.
And this is why unmarried couples, even with children, are much more likely to split up than married couples.
Are they? Do you have statistics for that?
-
Peace Leyna
What is your take on 2433?
And let those who are not able to marry abstain until God enriches them of His Bounty....
What are we advised to abstain from? I orginally thought it to be marriage but that wouldn't be logical.
