Taking off the Hijab
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Peace Wakas,
I don?t think it?s necessarily situation specific.
Take a look at the verses before, it talks about those who inflict harm on believers (men and women) they?re doing wrong (335. They can do that whenever.. we don?t wait for them to cause harm to protect ourselves, that?ll be unwise.
Basically as a caution for women, from people (hypocrites) in the city because we can?t control/stop them (3360) lengthening garments is ?adna?, more suitable.
So having a longer garment out in the city is better, for identity purposes and also protection. I guess it?s up to the individual to judge if they should or shouldn?t but lengthening is more suitable in city situations.
That?s how I took it
Peace
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peace Submitterwife, all,
If you have time, can you give me your take on the "lengthen your garment" theory, with reference to
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/dress-code-women-veil.htmI take the lengthen your garment thing as your shirts should cover your stomach when arms are raised up, your neckline should cover your chest, even when bending forward. Your skirts should cover your buttocks and thighs when bending forward and that they should not be revealing your thighs when you sit and cross your legs. I take lengthen your garments as it says.. lengthening my garments to where my body and sexual parts are covered up and unseen. I dont think that GOD made the " lengthen your garment thing to mean Jilbab like some say. If GOD wanted us to wear Jilbab he would have said wear jilbab over your garments and not lengthen them..???
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why would lengthening garments mean what is required? those are required without being specific of bending down and over. covered in all the required places from the appropriate angles...
but this is more about being out and about in the city populated with all sorts, lengthen garments for protection/identity.... so i took it as "more than" the required.
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peace Sarah, all,
Your view is what I used to think, until I studied the sequence of the verses. Detailed discussion was done in this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598400See reply #68 for example.
They can do that whenever.. we don?t wait for them to cause harm to protect ourselves, that?ll be unwise.
Yet, this is exactly what 3359 does. See above reply in thread harm ---> modify dress ---> if persist, retaliate
It is a bit like shorten the salat/bond when in fear, i.e. it is situation specific. If there is no fear, there is no shortening. If there is no harm, there is no modifying/lengthening of jilbab.
lengthening garments is ?adna?, more suitable.
It is "more suitable/better that they be recognised".
So having a longer garment out in the city is better, for identity purposes and also protection. I guess it?s up to the individual to judge if they should or shouldn?t but lengthening is more suitable in city situations.
It is only so in certain circumstances, as mentioned in the article. Sometimes this solution would be more dangerous, thus as M.Asad points out in his notes, it is not a universal rule for all times/situations.
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peace SW,
I primarily meant your take on the situation-specific V general, understanding. However, as a side note, 3359 does use the plural of jilbab, see "yudneena AAalayhinna min jalabeebi hinna" ~ "lengthen/draw near upon yourselves from/of your outer-garments".
Colour is for clarification.
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I guess overtly it makes me feel muslim
BTW Aynur those v neck tops would defeat the purpose P just buy it for home or something (or just don't buy them and save money haha)
Omeiza it's not more or less.
Peace Sarah -
I think you misunderstood me - I meant I could buy those tops only if I had a scarf that would cover the whole top/open part of it. p
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Peace Aynur
i knew what you meant P
if you had the scarf to cover it, it would defeat the purpose of the 'design' that's what i meant.
they're good for hijabi's because you can wear say a spaghetti strap dress ontop or a shirt that's short sleeve. they're just useful 'cos they're long sleeve.
but i guess if the girl in the headscarf showed her neck and chest area it would be bad. I remember a girl at college was wearing a scarf with her neck/chest area showing and a low cut v neck top.. lol i thought why wear the scarf /
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haha. I don't think I have been on a forum before with such a healthy sense of humour.
I started wearing the hijab at the age of 16-17. My biggest reason for it was quite complicated. But basically as a minority in a country, where you dont feel like you are part of your own original culture, nor do you feel completely a part of the majority, you are stuck kind of in between without a sense of belonging. However, where I went to high-school, all the girls wearing hijab were "in-between" but it was an in-between group that they belonged in. I wanted to be a part of that group and thats what I chose. At that time, I believed that their values were similar to mine, and I also thought the hijab was obligatory. However, when I became part of this group, I started to realize more and more that I really was not one of them, but continued to wear it. People have a certain opinion of those that wear the hijab, and I just did not fit that description. Because its hard to just stop and deal with others' opinions.
Fast-track a couple of years, and I was going away to a different town to University, and it was an easy way out for me. I just took it off completely when I was there. I got the same amazing sense of feeling taking it off, just as I had done putting it on a few years earlier. However, whenever I was home, I put it back on again, because I wasnt ready to face the comments, and questions. It was a bit of living a dual life, and not much fun at times. There was one time my mom was lecturing me on the phone as to how the hijab was preventing me from basically everything (friends, a boy, job), when I hadnt been wearing one really for two years (Though, I had completely different reasons for taking it off, as I don't believe when I wore it, it hindered me from anything).
Then, this summer I graduated, I was done school, and back in a city among family (albeit in my own apartment). So I had to solve this dilemma one and for all. I wore a very large bandanna that covered all of my hair, but not my neck, all summer when I was around family. When winter approached, the bandanna got replaced with a toque, and the hood of my jacket. Now when its too warm for toques, and hoods, I just plan to go bare-headed. So i took a slow approach as well.
Anyways thats my story. For those of you that wear the hijab, and no intention of taking it off, I admire you. For those that feel it no longer fits their purpose in life, I admire you too, and pray God will give you strength to choose your destiny.
Also this summer, I found out that the one high-school friend who had been most influential to me, as for putting the hijab on in the first place, no longer wears one either.
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Thanks for sharing your story )
did you get much comments in the community? for your actions?
Fast-track a couple of years, and I was going away to a different town to University, and it was an easy way out for me. I just took it off completely when I was there. I got the same amazing sense of feeling taking it off, just as I had done putting it on a few years earlier. However, whenever I was home, I put it back on again, because I wasnt ready to face the comments, and questions. It was a bit of living a dual life, and not much fun at times. There was one time my mom was lecturing me on the phone as to how the hijab was preventing me from basically everything (friends, a boy, job), when I hadnt been wearing one really for two years (Though, I had completely different reasons for taking it off, as I don't believe when I wore it, it hindered me from anything).
lol i wish my mum was like that
your family seems liberal. i don't have such freedom which just makes it difficult for me.
i bought a beanie (toque) the other day though it's got like a weaved cap, a different style but i liked it.. i thought hmm when winter comes if i got guts i'll go out with that on
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You know if I had not gone away for University, I may have still been wearing a Hijab. So I know how difficult it is for you. I would never judge you, or make a comment like what's the big deal, just take it off. All I can do is give advice, and taking the slow approach seems to work. I did get looks about my hijab bandanna, but no actual comments to my face. But I have always been known as radical/eccentric, won't go with the flow, so I don't know if that made it easier.
As for my family being liberal, I dont know. Their values change depending on the context, and can even change from day to day. My family is complicated, just like any other family is. They may drop dead if they knew half the things that went through my head, especially on my beliefs.
At the same time, while I did not feel the hijab represented who I was a person, its not like i want to deck out all in lululemon either, like every other 20 something female here seems to. I am still stuck as an " in between" person, and I have decided I am going to embrace it, not just with my clothes (not hijab, not lululemon, but my own unique style) but with my beliefs, my interests, the way I interact with people etc. etc. We will see how it goes.
Do you feel the same way, that along with taking off the hijab (one change), there are other changes you want to implement too?
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Peace Aynur
i knew what you meant
if you had the scarf to cover it, it would defeat the purpose of the 'design' that's what i meant.
they're good for hijabi's because you can wear say a spaghetti strap dress ontop or a shirt that's short sleeve. they're just useful 'cos they're long sleeve.
but i guess if the girl in the headscarf showed her neck and chest area it would be bad. I remember a girl at college was wearing a scarf with her neck/chest area showing and a low cut v neck top.. lol i thought why wear the scarf /
I see ...
Actually it was the colors on the shirt I liked, not the actual cut ... it's one of those dip-dyed looking shirts, where it's a darker color near the bottom and then lighter up higher.That's exactly what I would think - why wear hijab if you're showing your assets off like that? I've actually seen girls with skin-tight clothes and it just looks really, really funny.
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Peace kukumber
As for my family being liberal, I dont know. Their values change depending on the context, and can even change from day to day. My family is complicated, just like any other family is. They may drop dead if they knew half the things that went through my head, especially on my beliefs.
I guess every family has their issues though by liberal I kinda meant you could have reasonable leeway in your decisions such as go away to another town for uni, I can barely go to the local shops without it being an issue. You?re mum saw hijab as impeding your progress yet she wasn?t forceful for you to wear it or remove it?(well that was my impression). from my perspective it looked like you had it easier although maybe in that instance.. but I guess we all have our own anchors to deal with and each situation is different in each circumstance.
Lol thank God no one can read minds.
Do you feel the same way, that along with taking off the hijab (one change), there are other changes you want to implement too?
One main reason why I want to take it off is because I hate my hair and I feel like the headscarf is exacerbating a worsened condition. Many girls I know who have worn the scarf for a long period tell me they have or had hair issues. Of course not all of it is primarily with the covering but I feel it?s one contributing factor.
I feel because I wear the headscarf I?m objectified in so many ways. I was writing how then I realised wow this is too long. I don?t hate hijab but I feel like I have to attach myself with so much social pressures/expectations. Most of the time it doesn?t bother me I?m so used to it but at times it crosses my comfort zone and to detest it, is unheard of. With non scarfed girls it?s a bit different it?s almost like they can do anything and that?s normal because they?re not ?hijabi?
There are a few changes I want to implement but regardless of hijab or not I plan to go about it. maybe it?ll be easier without it.. I?m not sure. possibly my position of islam would be more clear if I did take hijab off but I also think I will be wrongly misunderstood.
With or without the scarf, change is bound to happen hijab isn't my primary goal but it's kinda on the wish list.
Aynur
I know the type, I have a skirt like that D I?ve worn skin tight stuff to the beach / prob not the most appropriate.. doesn?t help being fat anyway
Ok Omeiza, thanks for the insight.
Peace.
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Peace Wakas,
Just reading Asad?s notes
The specific, time-bound formulation of the above verse (evident in the reference to the wives and daughters of the Prophet), as well as the deliberate vagueness of the recommendation that women "should draw upon themselves some of their outer garments min jalabibihinna)" when in public, makes it clear that this verse was not meant to be an injunction (hukm) in the general, timeless sense of this term but, rather, a moral guideline to be observed against the ever-changing background of time and social environment. This finding is reinforced by the concluding reference to God?s forgiveness and grace.(Quran Ref 3359 )
Anyway I think we are assuming harm is taking place.. I didn?t take that assumption. I just understood it as it?s more suitable to be recognised.. so if you?re out in the city take that precaution if you wish to or/and if there is harm.
I agree with Asad how it?s not an injunction because why would God be forgiving of someone intentionally going against the law? So I see it as a preference not necessarily a specific hukm.
what?s interesting is these women aren?t properly recognised so there is a need for recognition. The recognition would protect them and not confuse the perpetrator..
I dunno but I feel more inclined that it?s a general preferred rule than a situation of harm specific rule..
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Yah I did away go to University, and do now live in my own place. But oh i fought so hard for everything in this life. My parents were just the kind of people who made it a big deal if I wanted to go to the mall or movies.
They were aghast at me living in my own place now, but fights are easier now. My intention was not to hurt my family, but I feel held back when I am home. I want to grow as a person, not get stuck at one point.
Also, I paid full expenses for when I was at away at University, Tuition, Rent, Food etc. Even now I am paying my own rent. Money is not the only issue, but being financially independent does help.
Inshallah you will get to a place as well where you do not feel like your freedom is restricted. That may be close to your family or away. We don't know what the future holds eh.
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welcome to the forum and thanks for the compliment about our Humor. ;D
