If Allah wants things to be easy for us, why so much confusion about salat?
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Peace everyone,
I discovered Islam 5 years ago now and yet I'm still not 100% sure about salat. What is puzzling to me is that if it is so important, why didn't Allah make it ABSOLUTELY clear as to how to pray? Meaning, if it is as crucial to being a Muslim as MOST say, why is it not listed in the Quran perfectly detailed, without any room for questions? Why must we flip around to different chapters piecing the directions (ie times/amounts, etc) together in order to do something that we are "required" to do? Some say that the word salat does not mean prayer, and more explanations of the term are cited adding to the confusion. And please, don't try to say it's very clear, 27 pages of questions/comments on this forum within the "Salat & Zakat" section does NOT show that it's clear. So far, it is the only thing in the Quran which I cannot ,for the life of me, wrap my head around. And one post within this section actually criticizes us for so many of us questioning the exact meaning, that is an insult to my intelligence. (
lf
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Selam
I don't think you are alone on this one. Probably a big portion of the members are still trying to get their heads around it. For those who are certain they know it, even they have different meanings. Flip side of the coin is that maybe salat is not a robotic/programmed thing that everyone performs for the sake of performing a ritual. Maybe salat is a personal communication between you and Allah? As you are on a journey of enlightenment you find your way somehow. Ok I have no idea, just as confused as you on this one ;D Just when you think you got it, someone else comes with a new theory which makes it all confusing again.
Just a summary of some of the meanings I have come across
- Salat = dua
- Salat = prayer
- Salat = reading/reciting
I am sure the list goes on. What is puzzling me is
56 O you who believe, if you rise to hold the bond, then wash your
faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and
your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you
shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted
feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you
cannot not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil;
you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not
want to place any hardship on you, but He wants to cleanse you
and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be thankful.Just finding it hard to understand the washing ritual not being connected to other than standing for prayer. Guess its how I have been programmed for many years.
What is also interesting is these youtube clips
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Early Christian prayer http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRLFeldPG3Y
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A jew performing prayer http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvQZ2-SowI
Anyways, we might be well away from the truth. May Allah guide us on the right path.
peace
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I come from a Christian and Pagan mixed background.
Cleanliness was always a Preperation before Starting a "Connection".
When I came to Islam, I noticed Islam took it a step Further to making Wudu an Essential Part of Ritual Prayer and taking it furter by having your shoes taken off when in the masjid or Prayer.
I really Admired this!
I read in the Quran, that When Allah chose Moses (Musa Pbuh) to be his Prophet, He explained to Musa to "Take of his Shoes" "Because He was in HOLY GROUND".
Now, When I think about Prayer, This makes Sense to me for the Follwing Reasons/Ideas*When you pray you are in "HOLY GROUND", making a HOLY CONNECTION/Communication, Therefore Cleaning yourself might help this Process?
It may not only be Respect but Spiritually Essential.*Musa was asked to do it....
*and I read that the Particles of Water Either Crystalize because of Positive Energy, or Cloud up becuase of Negitve energy. (Thoughts).
Maybe, Perhaps this has to do with our Connection? By Cleaning ourselves Perhaps it Spiritually Changes us? I dont know that just Speculation.... and If there is no water you can do so with Clean Dirt...so maybe I am just Over thinking this LOL.. -
Salam lilyfleur,
If Allah wants things to be easy for us, why so much confusion about salat?
In my humble opinion, shalat is one of many mutasyabihat/similar verses.
3.7 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say We believe in it, all is from our Lord. And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.
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Peace and hello everyone,
Thank you for your responses. All that I know is this, I am constantly awestruck by this book and the experiences I've had with my journey through Islam. Not until I found it did I even believe in Allah. And now that I've felt this, read this, experienced this, all I want is to be perfect. And so it bothers me that I'm not doing what I'm supposed to do and it causes me to be disappointed in myself.
Imfromjakarta,
Hello. I'm afraid that I don't fully understand your response. Would you please tell me more about it?
peace
lf -
Peace lilyfleur ,
Imfromjakarta,
Hello. I'm afraid that I don't fully understand your response. Would you please tell me more about it?
When I start to learn about al-Qur'an, there is a verse that keep me doing contemplations. That verse is QS 37. I look up words of 'muhkamat' in that verse and try to search other verses that contain the word 'muhkamat' or similar to it. Other verse that contain the word is QS 4720, it mention about war. Based on my understanding, verses that mention about war is muhkamat/essence of the Book.
I also learn that is not just war that essence of the Book but also verse that contain warning to people. My understanding is based on this verse QS 619.
So far my understanding about salat, it is still mutasyabihat/allegorical verse because it does not contain about war and warning. Based on my observation about salat, as you can see, in this thread, so many interpretation about what salat is, how to do the salat etc, it means everyone has their own understanding about salat.
Is it possible to unified those understanding? The answer is YES.
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A thought just came to me.. dunno if it totally relates but anyway.. I noticed other than arabs, people use the term "namaz" in relation to the ritual salat. I know turks do it, i know paki's/bangla's/iranians not sure about others..
could there be a significant difference? like where did the term namaz originate. Why call it namaz if it's salat? you don't hear people giving ramadan a diff name for example?
just a thought.
BTW lots of people get confused and then this confusion leads them to inertia i.e. a state of being not bothered into anything, a slum state of frustration pretty much. it's so easy to be spoon fed! but will it give you certainty? it certainly didnt for me as a sunni, doesn't remove the frustration of wanting to know, probably just puts it in the back of the thoughts.. spoon feeding left me with "But why" so i guess active research is important, and yes time consuming which will be annoying! but will be well worth it in the end. being certain from yourself is the greatest feeling ever
salam
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Peace
Peace lilyfleur ,
When I start to learn about al-Qur'an, there is a verse that keep me doing contemplations. That verse is QS 37. I look up words of 'muhkamat' in that verse and try to search other verses that contain the word 'muhkamat' or similar to it. Other verse that contain the word is QS 4720, it mention about war. Based on my understanding, verses that mention about war is muhkamat/essence of the Book.
I also learn that is not just war that essence of the Book but also verse that contain warning to people. My understanding is based on this verse QS 619.
So far my understanding about salat, it is still mutasyabihat/allegorical verse because it does not contain about war and warning. Based on my observation about salat, as you can see, in this thread, so many interpretation about what salat is, how to do the salat etc, it means everyone has their own understanding about salat.
Is it possible to unified those understanding? The answer is YES.
There are more than sufficient threads regarding "Salat" in this forum for anyone to conclude what salat is and what salat is not. As for the question "Is it possible to have a uniform/unified understanding of salat ?" To be honest , I doubt it very much , nor do I think it is necessary to have a "unified/universal understanding in order to be a believer . For most of us muslims here take The Qur'an as the complete guide to a peaceful existence and not just a guide to war and warnings .
I am interested though to learn more about " how our understanding of salat " can be unified or made universal , as I am sure other forum members are . Please do share your concept and understanding of the topic in question with reasons for them besides copy pasting verses from the Qur'an .
Peace , and thank you
almarh0m
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A thought just came to me.. dunno if it totally relates but anyway.. I noticed other than arabs, people use the term "namaz" in relation to the ritual salat. I know turks do it, i know paki's/bangla's/iranians not sure about others..
could there be a significant difference? like where did the term namaz originate. Why call it namaz if it's salat? you don't hear people giving ramadan a diff name for example?
just a thought.
BTW lots of people get confused and then this confusion leads them to inertia i.e. a state of being not bothered into anything, a slum state of frustration pretty much. it's so easy to be spoon fed! but will it give you certainty? it certainly didnt for me as a sunni, doesn't remove the frustration of wanting to know, probably just puts it in the back of the thoughts.. spoon feeding left me with "But why" so i guess active research is important, and yes time consuming which will be annoying! but will be well worth it in the end. being certain from yourself is the greatest feeling ever
salam
NAMAZ is PERSIAN name hail
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NAMAZ is PERSIAN name hail
I know it's Farsi. isn't Zoroastrianism from Iran/Persia? and their prayers are similar to traditionalists? I think Zoroastrianism was before Quran came?
just thought it was weird and probably has no correlation, it was just a thought
peace.
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I know it's Farsi. isn't Zoroastrianism from Iran/Persia? and their prayers are similar to traditionalists? I think Zoroastrianism was before Quran came?
just thought it was weird and probably has no correlation, it was just a thought
peace.
hmm interesting link there
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Well, The Egyptians Were tought to Pray as the Muslim did...
Here is a Time Line I guess...
- Ibraham Learned the ways of Religion...How to Pray Etc...(or Perhaps even before Abraham?) Adam?
2)The Egyptians Came after Abraham and Continued to Pray in this Fashion.
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/egyptpray.jpg3)The Zooasters and other who came After the Egyptians Keep Up Prayer in that Fashion....
4)The JEWS Keep Praying in that way.....
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/jews-1.jpg
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/jews-2.jpg5)Then Isa (Jesus) and some Christians Prayed that way...
"And he (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." - New Testament (Matthew 2639)6)Then Muhammad and the Muslims Keep Up Prayer and Prayed in the SAME way...
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/sall-2.jpg
http//i138.photobucket.com/albums/q270/rickrivero305/sallat.jpgI dont think that Egyptians Stole it from the Bablonians and I dont think the Muslims "Stole" it from the christians or "Stole" it from the Jews or the Jews "Stole" it from the Zooasters...Etc...etc..
I rather, Belive that ALL of these Tribes of People where ONCE ONE TRIBE...and All stem from Father Abraham or Father Adam.
Meaning, Could it be that Though their Culture, Religion, and Language, and Food had Changed over a Span of Thousands of years...One thing Remained Constant?
and that Constant Preserved Tradition was "Prayer"? Think about it.Maybe out of ALL the things that they Lost...the only thing they had intact was Prayer...Rooku and Prostration. hail
Is that an illogical Idea? Werent ALL religions ONE Religion at One time? wherent we All ONE at one time?
D Peace.
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What did they pray to in that fashion? the Egyptians for example?
it could be an illogical idea lol
Does it matter? the point is that is the way they were taught to pray from generations back. In the begining there was only one religion.
Then over time and after migration there was other gods attributed and the religion changed.
But its funny that the way you pray has been used in almost all religions.I see it like, just because they prayed to ra in that fashion, doesnt mean that the "WAY" they prayed was wrong. Just the fact that they prayed to ra was.
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Well it could matter, in principle it's all about well.. 'prayer' change the direction and bam! you're fine. though dunno if i can say it is entirely like that.
at the start, was there even a religion? when did religion form? people adopted things as religion. i can't say people in the origin of time prayed that way. yes, sure people in the past prayed in a similar fashion doesn't mean it is the only way.
TBH i always thought it was a way arabs prayed to their idols or how past people prayed to their kings/governors and then changed their directions. I really haven't looked into the origins of prayer and all things related. i can understand how a person would find humility in this act bowing, prostrating etc. because well it's like lowering a people's self pride to God, an idol or whatever.
i don't necessarily believe it is a bad thing, i'm just not sure whether i can say 'yes this is salat' notice even muslims (sunni/shia) need a direction of prayer but God is closer to us than our jugular vein(5016), people say God is everywhere. why is there that direction i.e. mecca? it won't matter if you turn to the east or the west (2177) it's your taqwa that reaches God (2237)
God knows best,
peace
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Peace everyone,
I discovered Islam 5 years ago now and yet I'm still not 100% sure about salat. What is puzzling to me is that if it is so important, why didn't Allah make it ABSOLUTELY clear as to how to pray? Meaning, if it is as crucial to being a Muslim as MOST say, why is it not listed in the Quran perfectly detailed, without any room for questions? Why must we flip around to different chapters piecing the directions (ie times/amounts, etc) together in order to do something that we are "required" to do? Some say that the word salat does not mean prayer, and more explanations of the term are cited adding to the confusion. And please, don't try to say it's very clear, 27 pages of questions/comments on this forum within the "Salat & Zakat" section does NOT show that it's clear. So far, it is the only thing in the Quran which I cannot ,for the life of me, wrap my head around. And one post within this section actually criticizes us for so many of us questioning the exact meaning, that is an insult to my intelligence.
lf
Because salat is something that provides a practical solution to racism.
Things will never be clear to those who don't focus their untrained eyes. Insult to your intelligence? If you're questioning it to reject it, rather than to find out what it means when you have no clue... then of course you go against the quran.
Of course the quranists cannot be clear... but we all know that the quranists... well for them... we who are muslims, have nothing to do with them as according to quran 6159.
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Peace everyone .
Peace FAR ,
An insult to my intelligence if someone denies that many of us question the correct way , etc .
I have not thought of this group a "sect" , although the Quran does warn against it . My library does not carry a lot of the Hadith , very few in fact . It's hard to know who to follow .
MUch PeAce
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Peace everyone .
Peace FAR ,
An insult to my intelligence if someone denies that many of us question the correct way , etc .
I have not thought of this group a "sect" , although the Quran does warn against it . My library does not carry a lot of the Hadith , very few in fact . It's hard to know who to follow .
MUch PeAce
A lot of hadith? Your library doesn't carry the quran? Because it is classified as hadith. Who to follow? We hear and obey the god. You may have no thought of this group as a sect, but the people here do consider themself a sect distanced from those who call themselves muslims. I only come here for quranic references.
http//docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AV-t_z4hXTE3ZGNqemI3bmNfMGR6MzhtNmR2&hl=en
You said insult to intelligence to questioning things... but the evidence against such behavior is evident.
http//www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/504/cosmic_debris.html - as you can see after David Hume's promotion of being skeptical, rejection of evidences was made.
We see two other people like Hume. Descartes... and Al Ghazali who promoted and pushed for such a thing upon the muslims.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali#Islamic_world
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQoLbPudHTEHadith's or sayings or hearsay has always existed... the god made it clear in the quran of what we have to do in regards to suspicion and news... so what the muslims developed was "hadith science". This science of hadiths/hearsay, provided a solution to the problem of 'chinese whispers'. For us to reject all hearsay because of some or majority number of false hearsay... is much like rejecting evidences in science.
You can have a look at the following website to see how bad such a thing is when it came to science.
http//www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/wclose.html
