If Allah wants things to be easy for us, why so much confusion about salat?
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Salam, all,
My way to perform SALAT is by reciting/reading the Great Reading.
What is the diffrence between my way and the "ritual prayer"
In the ritual prayer
- you start with Iqama--> non quranic
- when bowing or standing you pronounce the takbir--> non quranic
- at the end of fatiha you pronounce Amin--> non quranic
- during the ritual prayer you recite Quran--> this is quranic
Remember Allah gave words to Adam, The Great Reading are the Allah's words!
In my way all are quranic facts
- I start with "I seek protection in God against Satan the banished" before reciting the Great Reading as per 1698
- I start reading the Fatiha, the often repeated verses as per 1587
- then I start reading a chapter or more depending on the lenght, salat lenght is based on the following
Salat's duration is given in 1778 and 2187, this duration can vary depending on your geographical location, more you go to the north longer it is, in equator it is about 20 min.
For Nafila can be 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 of the night or what you can of it. - when making an "invocation/prayer" I finnish by "al hamdullilahi rabbi al alameen as per 1010
So what is common in the 2 ways --> reciting the Great Reading is the common denominator!
What does bowing, prostrating etc bring to the Salat?Peace
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For those who Say That the Physical Traditional Salat/Prostration Ritual is Purely Physical and Mechanical, and therefore Meaningless.....
Would it be Incorrect for me to Bring up Sex as a Proper Analogy?
Is Sex just a Physical Ritual in which two people just Mechanically/Physically do repetitive Motions that mean absolutely Nothing In regards to Mentally, Emotionally and Spiritually?
For those of you who have had sex, is it Just Purely Physical? No emotions, No Mental Aspects, or Spiritual involvement?
If so I believe that would be very bland and not doing any justice. )
There is a Common Goal in Sex and a Mindset. The Person and Goal is constantly in your mind as you go through the Physical Motions. Chemicals Endorphins get released often intensifying the feeling of Passion and even Spirituality when Making love.
This is well documented as many feel that their "Souls Literally were in-tuned and vibrating together". There is much Energy in Making Love and From Observing the Dark Religions, It seems there is much Spirituality. This could be a Possible reason why Sex on Menstruation and Anal sex is forbidden. Not only for the Obvious Physical Medical hazards but for the Spiritual Repercussions that may arise from this.
Menstrual blood contains Dead Blood cells and Dead Eggs while Seaman contains rich/pure/living cells (sperm). Both Seaman, Menstrual blood, Urine, and fecal matter are often all used in the Dark Rituals such as Witchcraft for various reasons.
Now I know that these Dark Rituals are Non-Quranic and therefor categorized as Hearsay, But, it could very well be another reason why Menstrual Sex and Anal Sex is forbidden, along with Eating The Flesh of the Pig, (which also is refrained in Spiritual Religions due to its Spiritual Properties and Vibration levels).
So, The Point I am trying to make is This I think Obviously Sex is more than just a Physical Ritual, in the same way I think Prostration/Traditional-Salaat is more than just meaningless Physical gestures. I assume there is more to this then what the Eyes can see.
I am Not here to Refute Whether or not Ayman and Wakas is right or if THS is right. I am rather holding the belief that You should do what you feel is right and correct based on personal Experience and Interpretation of Quran.
The only thing I wish to Accomplish by this Post is to Reply to those who feel hole heartedly that Prostration/Traditional Salaat is purely Physical and therefore contains NO VALUE what so ever. I dont think this assertion is fair. Actually, I wouldn't say Anything is Purely Physical as all things contain various aspects to them.
Perhaps it is just the vale that the individual places towards it that makes it an efficient method.I cant speak for everyone, as we all have different methods, but for me...I personally feel the Symbolic Physical Prostration is the most efficient for me in achieving my goals of "Awareness, Shedding of the Ego, and Remembrance/Appreciation-gratitude/Adoration."
For you is yours and for me is mine, you will be questioned on yours and for me Mine.
Peace/Salaam
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Salam Waqia,
you wrote about a Two very important issues
1- what's Wrong with traditional Salat ??? ( if real salat had to be physical, of course)
2 - is it so important to be " COMPLETLY " different from the traditionalists ??
i am sailing across this forum quite long ago, and still confused '(
Peace,
P.S Welcome to the forum welcome
Bismillaah,
Thank you for the welcoming!
Would you mind sharing your thoughts about these things?
Assalaamo alaykom
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salam,
i pretty much agree with Brother Herbman's View of the subject. in fact, up to now, his understanding meets mine, but still there are some points to discuss ie. does "sujud" literally means prostration ? does "ruku3" literally means bowing ?
i'll never stop searching until i am very satisfied with what i'd find .
Salam ... -
salam,
i pretty much agree with Brother Herbman's View of the subject. in fact, up to now, his understanding meets mine, but still there are some points to discuss ie. does "sujud" literally means prostration ? does "ruku3" literally means bowing ?
i'll never stop searching until i am very satisfied with what i'd find .
Salam ...Salam,
for the sujud, please read
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598240.0 and try the search engine, you will inchallah make your own conclusion on the subject.for "ruku3", I would like to ask you your thought, in arabic "ruku3" would mean "kneeling" and not "bowing" if I am not wrong?
Peace
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I want to pray salat as prescribed. And I usually succeed. But in my line of work, healthcare, I need to be mobile all the time. I cannot perform wudu as prescribed. Within this setting, it is inappropriate to stick my feet, one at a time, into a bathroom sink!
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I want to pray salat as prescribed. And I usually succeed. But in my line of work, healthcare, I need to be mobile all the time. I cannot perform wudu as prescribed. Within this setting, it is inappropriate to stick my feet, one at a time, into a bathroom sink!
Salaam brother Thomas,
I agree. It sure is inappropriate to stick your feet in a sink in which everyone else uses. They even may look at it as a health hazard and offensive on your part.
In this kind of situations you don?t have to wash your feet; just RUB/wipe your wet hands over them (right foot with your right hand, left foot with your left hand) up to your ankles. You don?t even have to take your socks off if you are wearing one.
Remember, GOD, is KIND and MERCIFUL. He informs us all over the Qur?aan that He wants easiness for us, not hardship, especially when we encounter abnormality regarding our environment.
Peace,
Khalil -
Khalil, thank you for your feedback. May God's peace be upon you. O0
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Dear Thomas,
please see 56 for detailed explanation of how to perform ablution/WUDZOO. The very important point in the verse is that GOD does NOT tell us to WASH our feet in a direct and STRAIGHTFORWARD wording. I personally take it as if GOD Almighty indirectly is telling us that we are allowed to RUB/WIPE our feet just like our head when it comes to situations like the one you are in.
Peace,
Khalil -
A thought just came to me.. dunno if it totally relates but anyway.. I noticed other than arabs, people use the term "namaz" in relation to the ritual salat. I know turks do it, i know paki's/bangla's/iranians not sure about others..
could there be a significant difference? like where did the term namaz originate. Why call it namaz if it's salat? you don't hear people giving ramadan a diff name for example?
just a thought.
BTW lots of people get confused and then this confusion leads them to inertia i.e. a state of being not bothered into anything, a slum state of frustration pretty much. it's so easy to be spoon fed! but will it give you certainty? it certainly didnt for me as a sunni, doesn't remove the frustration of wanting to know, probably just puts it in the back of the thoughts.. spoon feeding left me with "But why" so i guess active research is important, and yes time consuming which will be annoying! but will be well worth it in the end. being certain from yourself is the greatest feeling ever
salam
Here in Kosovo its also called Namaz, but they're all sunni, they take some kind of carpet written Allah on it or a scarf then they say something in Arabic, most likely praising Allah.
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peace, dont worry bout inertia.
there is no confusion about salat at all, the problem is we all have too much information in out head. problem is, if you're going to open the quran with preconcieved notions of what salat is, then you will defenitly gt confused.
you have to erase everything from your mind and forget the traditional way of prayer that you know, when u do this then the information that the quran tells you about salat will be more than sufficient. as far as i kno standing bowing and prostrating must be perfomed during salat, the glorification of god and the reciting of the quran is required as a part of it. think of salat a more of a christian prayer. more personal if u know what i mean -
Dear Thomas,
please see 56 for detailed explanation of how to perform ablution/WUDZOO. The very important point in the verse is that GOD does NOT tell us to WASH our feet in a direct and STRAIGHTFORWARD wording. I personally take it as if GOD Almighty indirectly is telling us that we are allowed to RUB/WIPE our feet just like our head when it comes to situations like the one you are in.
Peace,
KhalilWhere is the Quran does it tell us to wipe our right foot with our right hand? Also You were very correct in your second sentence above, but why do you then go on to somehow imply that we are allowed to wipe our feet when it comes to certain situations? Allah told us ONLY to wipe our feet. We were never told to wash them thoroughly for wudu and to wipe when washing is inappropriate. God makes things easy for us, but we still insist on making up little rules based on nothing real. Wiping over socks seems odd though, but there is no detail otherwise, but it just seems odd. I just stopped wearing socks all together so wudu will be easy, but i really only need to do it once generally at work, and the rest of the time I'm at home without shoes on anyway.
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i thought we have to wash our feet??
something to do with the suffix used in arabic which links the two verbs in the verses even if they are seperated by another verse. i read it ages ago on submission.ws and i confirmed it with the arabic quran i have. seemed quite logical. it had something to do with the linguistics of arabic or something. the laws of language -
Selam
Here is something from a book called 'mental bondage' on the subject
What about 56 where you are supposed to do the ritual ablution (which they call wudu) before Sol-laa? Surely, that proves that ritual prayer is needed.
Surah 5 is to be read from 1 through to 7. Verse 6 is about being hygienic. The first two verses talk about food. People should observe the harmony sanctioned by God in the system. Verse 3 has more details on food, and then it says, ?Today the way of life (or the deen) is perfected? after detailing unhygienic food. The fourth and the fifth verses also talk about food with additional decrees that Muslims can marry the people of the previous Scripture. That in itself should be an eye-opener.
The subsequent verse says that we are upholding our commitments when we make ourselves clean. In verse 7 we are told to be appreciative of God?s blessing upon us and we should uphold the covenants He made with us from the time we say, ?We hear and we obey?.
Hygiene is part of our commitments. And if there is no water to wash ourselves, God has prescribed an alternative i.e. to use clean dry soil to clean our hands. The point is, we are obliged to be as clean as we can ? and here the limits are described with provision for extreme circumstances.
There is no such thing as the word ritual cleansing or wudu (this common term used by the majority of the Muslims is not to be found anywhere in the Reading). There is no ritual ablution. In 56 we are told it is good to wash ourselves up to the elbows, wash the face, and wipe our heads and feet. We must keep ourselves clean. This verse does not say that Sol-laa is a ritual prayer. The verse does not say after we ?ritually? clean up ourselves we must start praying ritually.I am not too sure on the clean soil bit however. Somehow it does not fit, I could not see how we can clean ourselves with clean soil. No matter how clean this soil is its still soil. I guess further research is needed here and I think the soil issue is the key.
May Allah guide us to the truth.
Peace
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peace hope4,
That rendition of 56 has very little credibility if one looks at the Arabic. See corpus.quran.com
When you observe/uphold/establish ila/to/for the X fa/so/then wash your faces......
salat is singular, and according to mental bondage would imply when you uphold a commitment you wash your faces...... etc which is illogical. I guess Aidid Safar is playing the "my interpretation of the verse is...." card, rather than the "the verse literally says..." card. That's ok if he can provide other examples of this same usage elsewhere, but he does not (as far as I recall).
Although that is not to say his other points are incorrect. -
peace hope4,
That rendition of 56 has very little credibility if one looks at the Arabic. See corpus.quran.com
When you observe/uphold/establish ila/to/for the X fa/so/then wash your faces......
Peace Wakas
You make a good point. But my intention was not focused on salat meaning commitments, but rather wudu or abulution not necessarily being a ritual act. Also, I am keen to learn more on the part
56 .....And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have
excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women,
and you cannot not find water, then you shall select from the
clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it.....I am a little confused as how can clean soil no matter how clean, substitute water? Can it mean something else? And also why only wipe face and hands? Just a few questions that puzzle me.
Peace
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I don't think its supposed to substitute water in order to physically clean us, I mean if god wanted us to physically be clean before we perform an act of prayer that is both physical and spiritual he would have told us to shower every time we wanna pray.
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Peace,
I was just reading this and had a sudden thought
On the soil/wudu issue. . .
A long time ago when they were traveling and water was scarce, it would make sense to keep the habit of wudu, would it not? Since humans are creatures of habit, right? So knowing humans, G-d gave us a way to keep wudu on our minds, but with soil. Also, not all soil is "unclean" (as in our modern understanding), dishes and cookware were cleaned with "clean" soil for centuries. . . so maybe it all makes sense from a historical/human nature viewpoint?
Just a thought!
peace -
peace hope4, all,
Firstly, the meaning of "ritual" can have various shades of meaning
any customary observance or practice
the prescribed procedure for conducting religious ceremonies
of or relating to or characteristic of religious rituals; "ritual killing"
stereotyped behaviorThe first meaning could encompass brushing one's teeth for example. Not all "rituals" are bad, only ones that are illogical/baseless/anti-Quran/etc.
Secondly, the meaning of salat is critical to the context, so it is relevant.
Lastly, the clean soil issue has been discussed before, with various ideas. Some of the better explanations were to do with the communal setting and impressing upon the person to have access to water regularly. Also, clean soil may in fact be quite effective, I do not know.
I have read very limited alternative explanations of this verse, and the ones I have read have all thrown cross-referencing in the bin or attempted to explain them as idiom with no further evidence other than their own subjectivity. Disappointing.
If you are reading any work and that work does not contain enough information to verify/refute what has been written, or does not point out varying views or weaknesses in its explanation, be very very cautious of such a work. It is unfortunate Aidid Safar's work is filled with problems, as it can detract from some very good points.
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Selam
This is a long shot but can the clean soil used for abulution be Natron?
Here is some background on Natron
Natron is a naturally occurring mixture of sodium carbonate decahydrate (Na2CO3?10H2O, a kind of soda ash) and about 17% sodium bicarbonate (also called nahcolite or baking soda, NaHCO3) along with small quantities of household salt (halite, sodium chloride) and sodium sulfate. Natron is white to colourless when pure, varying to gray or yellow with impurities. Natron deposits are sometimes found in saline lake beds which arose in arid environments. Throughout history natron has had many practical applications which continue in the wide range of modern uses of its constituent mineral components.
Historical natron was harvested directly as a salt mixture from dry lake beds in Ancient Egypt and has been used for thousands of years as a cleaning product for both the home and body. Blended with oil, it was an early form of soap. It softens water while removing oil and grease. Undiluted, natron was a cleanser for the teeth and an early mouthwash. The mineral was mixed into early antiseptics for wounds and minor cuts. Natron can be used to dry and preserve fish and meat. It was also an ancient household insecticide, was used for making leather and as a bleach for clothing.
The mineral was used in Egyptian mummification because it absorbs water and behaves as a drying agent. Moreover, when exposed to moisture the carbonate in natron increases pH (raises alkalinity), which creates a hostile environment for bacteria. In some cultures natron was thought to enhance spiritual safety for both the living and the dead. Natron was added to castor oil to make a smokeless fuel, which allowed Egyptian artisans to paint elaborate artworks inside ancient tombs without staining them with soot.
The use of natron, however, was not reserved for the dead. Based upon the records left to posterity, natron was a fairly ubiquitous product for the living as well. Natron was ancient Egypt's supreme cleansing product. It was used for household cleansing as well as to cleanse the body. Formulae featuring natron were used to rid the home of vermin. It was also used to cleanse the body, teeth and prevent unattractive body odors.
From another source The use of natron, however, was not reserved for the dead. Based upon the records left to posterity, natron was a fairly ubiquitous product for the living as well. Natron was ancient Egypt's supreme cleansing product. It was used for household cleansing as well as to cleanse the body. Formulae featuring natron were used to rid the home of vermin. It was also used to cleanse the body, teeth and prevent unattractive body odors.
Peace
