new truth revealed
-
You should know that Quran is not complete & you cannot understand it without Hadiths, you must learn all this from Ulama first then you will be considered Muslima. P
well, Try to leave a beautiful trace behind you.
-
where does Quran say that where does Quran say that, are you with a mental disease, not everything in Quran, this is what you must learn using your mind yourself, the other Books of Allah have been distorted, so Quran came to ban reading them. can I know why you want to read the other books from Allah?
hahaha and what this verse means { {
No, wrong ..... this is the verse
( )" ? 126 "
we believe in the prophets and we believe in their books, but we don't read them because they have been distorted and Quran came to ban reading them except the scientists of Quran because they have to defend about any misunderstood about Quran.
Not everything is in Quran? You are calling Allah a liar again? Allah says His book is complete and detailed so regarding His religion then yes everything IS in Quran. As for answering anything you ask, I didnt notice you ask me any questions though, I am STILL waiting for you to show me where in Quran it prohibits reading the previous books that Allah CONFIRMS are also from Him.
I see you are only here to go in circles and waste peoples time, I dont have time to waste with you anymore, there are verses in Quran warning me against wasting time with enemies of Allah such as yourself.
-
I see you are only here to go in circles and waste peoples time, I dont have time to waste with you anymore, there are verses in Quran warning me against wasting time with enemies of Allah such as yourself.
Indeed.
When thou seest men engaged in vain discourse about Our Signs, turn away from them unless they turn to a different theme. If Satan ever makes thee forget, then after recollection, sit not thou in the company of those who do wrong. 668
And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say "To us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you we seek not the ignorant." 2855
-
Not everything is in Quran? You are calling Allah a liar again? Allah says His book is complete and detailed so regarding His religion then yes everything IS in Quran. As for answering anything you ask, I didnt notice you ask me any questions though, I am STILL waiting for you to show me where in Quran it prohibits reading the previous books that Allah CONFIRMS are also from Him.
well, I'll not be arrogant and I'll explain to you where Quran is completed and where it is detailed.
Quran is completed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>in verses.
Quran is detailed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in provisions.
I don't need to show you, because my justification will come from hadith with a verse in it , and as I know you "you're a rejecter of hadith".
I see you are only here to go in circles and waste peoples time, I dont have time to waste with you anymore, there are verses in Quran warning me against wasting time with enemies of Allah such as yourself.
Ah Now you have been serious , what about your "geste" of laughing all the day .??
the only person that waste his time here is me. there are verses in Quran translated as you want them (by your own desires).
-
well, I'll not be arrogant and I'll explain to you where Quran is completed and where it is detailed.
Quran is completed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>in verses.
Quran is detailed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in provisions.
I don't need to show you, because my justification will come from hadith with a verse in it , and as I know you "you're a rejecter of hadith".
Ah Now you have been serious , what about your "geste" of laughing all the day .??
the only person that waste his time here is me. there are verses in Quran translated as you want them (by your own desires).
I think I would rather be a rejecter of hadith than a rejecter of Quran anyday!
What is the problem with laughing? is that also prohibited?
-
peace I am pretty confused now.
where is the explanation as you claimed
I don't really understand this question. Some of the text I posted above (from the Tafsir) IS an explanation.
this is not what Ibn Kathir has mentioned,
OK, so you are saying the text I copied is not from Ibn Kathir? Who wrote it then?
I've gave you the explanation from Ibn Kathir >>>"the people asked the prophet about the other scriptures and he recited this verse 2136."
This does not answer my question. May I sum up the discussion for you so that we can figure out where the misunderstanding lies
~ My question was where the Qur'an bans the reading of other scriptures.
~ You posted 2136 in reply.
~ 2136 does not say that it is forbidden to read other scriptures.
~ If I understood you correctly, you said that the prohibition to read other scriptures is not directly in the verse but that I should read the Tafsir by Ibn Kathir.
~ I did and still couldn't find anything regarding banning the reading of other scriptures.
~ So my question still stands Where does the Qur'an say that it is forbidden?
Hope that clears it up, I would appreciate an answer.
-
I think I would rather be a rejecter of hadith than a rejecter of Quran anyday!
Ok; as you wish . I'm not going to reject both of them .
What is the problem with laughing? is that also prohibited?
Yes, there is a problem, when the people got to be serious , try to be serious as well .
-
peace I am pretty confused now.
why?
I don't really understand this question. Some of the text I posted above (from the Tafsir) IS an explanation.
and I said there is no explanation, it's just a translation >>> this verse have been explained from Ibn Kathir , and there are much things you could know by reading the tafsir.
OK, so you are saying the text I copied is not from Ibn Kathir? Who wrote it then?
It is from Ibn Kathir and the translator who translated the book of Ibn Kathir in english have deleted a lot of things.
This does not answer my question. May I sum up the discussion for you so that we can figure out where the misunderstanding lies
~ My question was where the Qur'an bans the reading of other scriptures.
~ You posted 2136 in reply.
~ 2136 does not say that it is forbidden to read other scriptures.
~ If I understood you correctly, you said that the prohibition to read other scriptures is not directly in the verse but that I should read the Tafsir by Ibn Kathir.
~ I did and still couldn't find anything regarding banning the reading of other scriptures.
~ So my question still stands Where does the Qur'an say that it is forbidden?
Hope that clears it up, I would appreciate an answer.Yeah, nice job from you to cite every step. Anyways I said that in Tafsir Ibn Kathir, when he explained the verse 136 from the sura 2"Al-Baqara", he said that people came to ask the prophet about reading the other books from Allah and he respnded to them by reciting this verse 1362, then they understood that they shouldn't read them and if someone asked them about things from these books , they have to say what the verse said.
-
You didn't but some guys(members) here did
because the Jews are always the bad example.I didn't understand this question.
Because of such a deep studies, they came to this conclusion.
I was thinking that I have already made thing clear for you but I was totally wrong assuming that, what you don't know is that the sunnah of the prophet has been written at the time of his existence. and the friends of the prophet have spread in the world teaching people the sunnah and telling them his sayings, people because they were not like the friends of the prophet who they have reserve sunnah in their heart , so at the time of Omar Bno Abdel Al-Aziz when he ordered to write the sunnah of the prophet from the heart into the lines. so go figure.
Give me references of deep study of sunnah muakida.
I?m quite aware that people recorded suhaf of the prophet?s way and their interpretation of it existed. the sad thing is, none of it is preserved to show the clear accuracy of ?current? so called authentic ahadith we have. Umar ibn abdel alaziz, what?s so great about him? He was after the prophet?s time so go figure yourself.
-
Give me references of deep study of sunnah muakida.
some references
1- Taj Al-Arousse Mada(Sanad).
2-Tadrib Arawi- Halal Addine Assayouti
3-Mokadimate Sahih Moslim - Sharh Annaouwi
4-Al-Masdar Assabek 1/14
5-Mokadimate Bno Assalah.
6-Nozhate Anatar Ibn Hajar Al-Askalani .......etc.I?m quite aware that people recorded suhaf of the prophet?s way and their interpretation of it existed. the sad thing is, none of it is preserved to show the clear accuracy of ?current? so called authentic ahadith we have.
the hadith has been written in the existence of the prophet in suhaf of the palms and the skin of animals just to remember the hadith, the real place that people reserved hadith is the heart, they were good in keeping things in their minds and in their hearts, so they didn't forget anything, everyone spread the hadith of Rassool in every place on earth they visited. so why do you think that this hadith can't be authentic? known that people from Morocco and the others countries in the north of africa let alone the Yaman and the countries in the middle east went to study hadith and Quran in schools just after the death of the Sahaba who they left their children to teach people and some Sahaba were still alive.
Umar ibn abdel alaziz, what?s so great about him? He was after the prophet?s time so go figure yourself.
Omar Bno Abdel Aziz is the fifth khalifa, his grandfather is Omar Bno Al-khatab, and he was at the time of the existence of the sons of Al-Hosain the son of Ali Asahabi Aljalil. And his 6 grandfather is Mu'Awiya Bno Abi soufiane who left before Islam and after Islam and the leader of Bani Umaya. he studied the Fiqh and the sunnah and the hadith and the language in Madina Al-Monawara from Saleh Bno Kissana who left in the existence of Sahaba.Omar Bno Abdel Aziiz was the first one who renovated the ligeslations of Islam and he took the provisions from Quran and sunnah and he even turned his country despite all the revolutions at that time into a country at the time of the Sahaba. go figure.
-
Taj al-Arus did a dictionary where can I access ?mada(sanad)? do you have a copy? And was it al-Zabidi that compiled it or was it taj?
2-Tadrib Arawi- Halal Addine Assayouti
Never heard of him
3-Mokadimate Sahih Moslim - Sharh Annaouwi
Muslim was a student of bukhari, what does the introduction say?
4-Al-Masdar Assabek 1/14
Dunno of him
5-Mokadimate Bno Assalah.
Dunno of him
6-Nozhate Anatar
Dunno of him
Ibn Hajar Al-Askalani
His father was a scholar of shafi.. shafi school of thought. So did he have evidence of how he studied hadiths? Hadiths study was well and truly there before his father?s time.
one of the most authentic book is probably malik?s muwatta (according to shafi). Scholars have found hadiths which are not sahih in there, weak hadiths even and this was the most original.. (in tact) so how do you expect later times to be even better?
Why do shias have different hadiths than sunnis? How do you know your sunni hadiths are more authentic?
Why isn?t there hadiths preserved on skins of animals? Why is it that people back then had apparently supersonic memory and today everyone?s memories are futile?
The first thing the sahaba wanted to teach was QURAN, go read about umar and abu bakr and then tell me about the ?spread of hadiths? amongst scholars. The companions were scared people would uphold things other than quran and they focused on the Quranic message.
Just because a person is a descendent of companion or anyone it doesn?t mean they are automatically enlightened. What?s so good about mawaiya? you think he left islam and before he left he spread a pure message? Muawiya isn?t a great example to go by.
So Omar ibn abdel aziz did something ?good? in his time. which would be pretty easy considering muawaiya made a big fool of himself. So he was amending muawiya?s mess. Doesn?t mean he was a saviour. Even if he was, that?s a few generations later. He wasn?t no ?rightly guided caliph? why didn?t they fix up the hadiths issue? You think a person in a lesser degree/position would do a better job than the rightly guided caliphs? How offensive.
and lastly one thought comes to me if hadith is so great and authentic why would they need to authenticate any of them, considering you think they shouldn't be doubted??
-
Indeed.
Ha, indeed/ Different Strokes for different folks
-
Taj al-Arus did a dictionary where can I access ?mada(sanad)? do you have a copy?
oh it's so huge, there is no command here to insert a pdf file . give me your email and I'll send you the chapter one.But it's an arabic.
And was it al-Zabidi that compiled it or was it taj?
hahah, sorry >>> Taj Al Arus is the name of the book and the writer is Al-Zabidi.
Muslim was a student of bukhari, what does the introduction say?
Yes, you're right but not for a long time, he studied before and he taugh from great shouyoukh at this time the time of the existence of Bukhari, and Muslim was too claver, I like the book of Muslim more than the Bukhari, and his aim for making a book is he that he wanted to be sure of what came in Bukhari book, so he began his trip to collecte ahadith too, and the second aim is to make people sure that the book whether his or Bukhari book are authentic.
His father was a scholar of shafi.. shafi school of thought. So did he have evidence of how he studied hadiths? Hadiths study was well and truly there before his father?s time.
it's Abu Hajar, go figure ! they named it the "" because he has saved all the hadith in his mind with every details in it from Sanad to Matan and he studied and has been taught by the greatest shouyoukh in his age . do you think that just shafi was the only person who was a sheikh, they were plenty like the drop of rains, there was Malik and others .
one of the most authentic book is probably malik?s muwatta (according to shafi). Scholars have found hadiths which are not sahih in there, weak hadiths even and this was the most original.. (in tact) so how do you expect later times to be even better?
the Muwataa is a good book but Bukhari is the best one, as I said they were others shouyoukh other than shafi himself, do you know how much schools exsted at this time? school in Morocco and in Iraq in Medina and Saoud , in Yaman in every place Islam entered to it and people wanted to take hadith and Quran to study it.
Why do shias have different hadiths than sunnis? How do you know your sunni hadiths are more authentic?
Shia have fabricated hadith for some reasons (one of this reason is Ali and Fatima may God be pleased with them=they make them perfect and they said that Gabriel the angel has made a mistake because the inspiration was for Ali not the prophet peace be upon him). so who you think that he is right and he has more authentic hadiths. one more thing the prophet mentionned that we should follow his sunnah and we do.
-
Why isn?t there hadiths preserved on skins of animals? Why is it that people back then had apparently supersonic memory and today everyone?s memories are futile?
because of a lot of reasons that the hadiths preserved on skins of animals one of it is stealing, people stole them as a memo God knows , the second reason is the way they wrote these ahadith on these skins, they wrote them by stone or a stick of a branch which means that by time these writings will disappear but the writer still remembers what he did write.
about memory , it's a gift from God, go look for Greck the ancient myth, people they have memorized every myth and every seeing of philosophers without writing them. why today this man is clever and this man is dumb ? your question is "making no sense"?The first thing the sahaba wanted to teach was QURAN, go read about umar and abu bakr and then tell me about the ?spread of hadiths? amongst scholars. The companions were scared people would uphold things other than quran and they focused on the Quranic message.
look I've read history, and I know why Umar and Abu Baker Asadik were scared, not because of hadith but because of lies, people made lies about hadith and they said that this hadith is from the prophet. It's not about Quran at all . if it was as you claimed, people will call them selfish because they knew the sunnah of the prophet while the others in the whole will not know it. and Abu Horaira has a great talk with Aisha and Umar went to Abu Horaira to talk to him about hadith and he answered them, if it was as you claimed Umar Bno Al-khatab will cut his head off
Just because a person is a descendent of companion or anyone it doesn?t mean they are automatically enlightened. What?s so good about mawaiya? you think he left islam and before he left he spread a pure message? Muawiya isn?t a great example to go by.
we're not talking about Muawi'aya, at the time of his existence, there were more than 100.000 Sahabi of the prophet are still alive.
So Omar ibn abdel aziz did something ?good? in his time. which would be pretty easy considering muawaiya made a big fool of himself. So he was amending muawiya?s mess. Doesn?t mean he was a saviour. Even if he was, that?s a few generations later. He wasn?t no ?rightly guided caliph? why didn?t they fix up the hadiths issue? You think a person in a lesser degree/position would do a better job than the rightly guided caliphs? How offensive.
hey can you respect this man please "Omar Bno Abdel-Aziz" , you don't know this guy, by the way off-topic.do you know his grandfather from his mother ? is Omar Bno Al-Khatab and I think I've gave you more information about him, so answer it again will be useless.
and lastly one thought comes to me if hadith is so great and authentic why would they need to authenticate any of them, considering you think they shouldn't be doubted??
Asahih didn't need to authenticate it , but the Hasan and the Daef need to be authenticated . because there was liars .
-
Salaam, surely the Prophet Muhammed's 'teachings' were from Allah through the Qur'an? Did the Prophet Muhammed say to anyone to record his 'sayings' & compile books about them? Meaning did he authorize them? -I'm not clear on this!
-
Salaam, surely the Prophet Muhammed's 'teachings' were from Allah through the Qur'an? Did the Prophet Muhammed say to anyone to record his 'sayings' & compile books about them? Meaning did he authorize them? -I'm not clear on this!
The prophet said NOT to record his sayings and teachings. The prophet followed Allah and that way is in Quran.
-
Peace, then it's clear then Sister Ayisha & yet still some follow Hadiths giveup
-
Does the taj al arus give detail of hadiths study? If it doesn?t im not interested in reading it.
Well I know muslim studied under sheyoukh doesn?t mean he or they are infallible. They muslim and bukhari authenticated their hadiths differently.
I know there is more than shafi, you didn?t realise what I said. In the history of hadiths shafi is the one that said hadiths is a dual revelation with quran, he made some big statements which has effectively changed the course of how muslims are today and their views of hadith. Imam malik based his teachings of practices muslims did in Medina, not all of it was hadiths. Anyway I know there are MANY muhaditheen.
It?s funny how you said bukhari is the best one yet you prefer muslim.. odd I would think you should prefer bukhari. Many schools existed.
The issue about shias is like the biggest misconception. But anyway believe as you like.
The prophet didn?t say follow his sunnah, please show me the verse thanks
When I meet one person in this world who has memorised all of bukhari, muslim, abu dawud and all the so called authentic 6 hadith books, by chain and all the ordering without making any mistake I?ll believe that they had that in their memory, until then that?s not evidence.
Because of a lies the sahaba were scared, I wonder! Lies existed and they were scared of it so they didn?t record hadiths. They were wise they realised how easy it would be to fabricate hadiths so they didn?t record it. if it was an essential ?sunnah? to preserve the prophet himself would have ordered it or at least the companions would have done something about it.
Many sahabi existed, doesn?t mean all sahabi were good.
Asahih didn?t become sahih overnight, they needed to authenticate the collection. Hasan and deaf are not people they are descriptions of the quality of hadiths, quality of hadiths are not liars quality of hadiths is ?good? or ?weak?. If you reject hadiths that are hasan and daef because you think they are lies well then you?re not much different to me.
BTW the "sources" you told me were of sunnah not sunnah muakida, i want the muakid of it all.
Salaam, surely the Prophet Muhammed's 'teachings' were from Allah through the Qur'an? Did the Prophet Muhammed say to anyone to record his 'sayings' & compile books about them? Meaning did he authorize them? -I'm not clear on this!
if the prophet authorized hadith do you think we'd have the problem with hadith we have today? funny we don't have the same problem with Quran, i wonder why.