jalada
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says who?
says common sense!
when a matter is settled with full consensus among the ulema-e-islam then comes a full stop "." means no more interpretations! thanks.
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I thnak you all for this.
I would like to ask those tho have studied to gret lengths the Arabic of the time of revelation about the word jalda.
If I may sum up what has been said as follows
Some say that it is lashes. A lash is an object made of leather long and made specially for floging . ?is this so?
Some say that it is lashes but understand it so that the lashing must not go deeper than the skin. ?Is this so? If so, what in the Arabic wording warrantees that understanding.
Some again understand it so that the punishment consists in exhibiting the adulterers' skin one hundred times. ?How much skin? From which part of the body? ?How do you do that one hundred times?
I hope I am not imposing on you with this. I feel that it is very important to clarify all this and make sense of it.
There seem to be some confusion as to what is understandood by "lashes or stripes". Sometimes it would seem that it is just beating like with a stick or pole or a baton. Others the leather whip... In the Qur'an the talk is about the substantive "jalda" or the verb jalada ajlidu...
Thank you for your imput. I do appreciate a lot.
Salaam
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I thnak you all for this.
You're welcome
I would like to ask those tho have studied to gret lengths the Arabic of the time of revelation about the word jalda.
it's a huge story, by the way the word Jald and the punishement was before Islam, don't just make it exclusive only in Islam. knowing the story will not serve you.
If I may sum up what has been said as follows
Some say that it is lashes. A lash is an object made of leather long and made specially for floging . ?is this so?Yes, this is the right thing.
I hope I am not imposing on you with this. I feel that it is very important to clarify all this and make sense of it.
can I know why you want to know other interpretations ? I think the word was clear and the punishment was clear too which is 100 times of flogging.
by the way this punishement can't come true without four witnesses.
the punishemnt is flogging the person who made this crime(Zina), must be flogged in his back "Dos" 100 times .
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the punishemnt is flogging the person who made this crime(Zina), must be flogged in his back "Dos" 100 times .
Not "the person", but "the two, one particular man and other particular woman" convicted of the charge of Zina on the strength of four eye witnesses . There cannot be one person accused of Zina.
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Not "the person", but "the two, one particular man and other particular woman" convicted of the charge of Zina on the strength of four eye witnesses . There cannot be one person accused of Zina.
I just said person by mistake but I mean by it the both of them (who they made Zina)
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So is everyone comfortable that God teaches flogging two people 100 times for adultery?
Can anyone explain why this teaching from God is so different to the teaching God gave to Jesus? Did the New Testament get corrupted so greatly at this point of difference such that God had to teach us explicitly the true message again which was that the punishment for two adulterers was to flog them 100 times each?
John 753 And every man went unto his own house. 81 Jesus went unto the Mount of Olives. 2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. 3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, 4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee go, and sin no more.
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Well they are exposed whereby people have seen them and this is the punishment prescribed in the first line of the verse. Then do you think the last line is superfluous
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/024.%20An%20Noor/24.02b.gifIt's not superflous because the witnesses HAVE to be from among the mu'mineen. This is a specification of the above. As for 'adhab', that doesn't prove that it means lashes. Quran uses 'adhab' to mean 'punishment', adhabun ALEEM means 'PAINFUL punishment' (but even then you can also have non-physical pain).
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No, I disagree>>> jald doesn't mean expose and it will never mean expose the person, the only meaning is flog the person on his skin. that's it . no more interpretations.
The only way you'll agree is when your priests who don't know how many ayah are abrogated and can't agree what the muqata'at refer to say. So I'll leave you with your priests.
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So is everyone comfortable that God teaches flogging two people 100 times for adultery?
Can anyone explain why this teaching from God is so different to the teaching God gave to Jesus? Did the New Testament get corrupted so greatly at this point of difference such that God had to teach us explicitly the true message again which was that the punishment for two adulterers was to flog them 100 times each?
But where is the man who performed the act? Or was she being alleged for having done "self sex"?
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242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity overtake you regarding the system of God if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.
abdalquran how can you interpret that as expose them publicly? You can't reinvent the Koran.Wow, the free-minds translation is now the Koran? Are you the high priest of Free-minds?
I used quran to interpret quran. I didn't reinvent meanings because i never acccepted those meanings in the first place.
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Some again understand it so that the punishment consists in exhibiting the adulterers' skin one hundred times. ?How much skin? From which part of the body? ?How do you do that one hundred times?
I don't know if you're referring to me here but just in case you are, my view isn't this. My view is, the guilty ones are to be exposed, publicised. 100 times they must be shown to the public as those who are unfaithful. There's no actual skin involved.
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The only way you'll agree is when your priests who don't know how many ayah are abrogated and can't agree what the muqata'at refer to say. So I'll leave you with your priests.
well, let me remind you that I have explained to you the abrogates and showed the difference and I also advised you to not pay attention to the abrogates, and you're still making it an obstacle between you and learning.
about Muqata'at , I'm sure that you will not understand it . so don't let me waste my time for another subject you'll not learn anything from it.
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well, let me remind you that I have explained to you the abrogates and showed the difference and I also advised you to not pay attention to the abrogates, and you're still making it an obstacle between you and learning.
Don't pay attention to the fact that the 'masters' of the Quran dont even know how many ayat are CANCELLED OUT? Oh this is worth my attention and I love telling people about this D
about Muqata'at , I'm sure that you will not understand it . so don't let me waste my time for another subject you'll not learn anything from it.
Yeah. In other words, you agree your ulema DON'T KNOW. lol...
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Don't pay attention to the fact that the 'masters' of the Quran dont even know how many ayat are CANCELLED OUT? Oh this is worth my attention and I love telling people about this
they are not the masters plus the ayat are not cancelled out, so your knowledge of abrogates is so poor, so stop blaming people about your lack of understanding them. and about you love telling people this know that every word are in list (he might be bad list) of you.
Yeah. In other words, you agree your ulema DON'T KNOW. lol...
No, they have their reasons, and I think you should read this verse
1274 "but over all endued with knowledge is One, the All-Knowing."
( )
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I don't know if you're referring to me here but just in case you are, my view isn't this. My view is, the guilty ones are to be exposed, publicised. 100 times they must be shown to the public as those who are unfaithful. There's no actual skin involved.
Well yes, it was this view I was thinking of. Thank your for your answer and please allow me to ask further. From what in the formulation do you get this meaning. ?Is it form the word jalada or from what?
Salaam
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Wow, the free-minds translation is now the Koran? Are you the high priest of Free-minds? I used quran to interpret quran. I didn't reinvent meanings because i never acccepted those meanings in the first place.
No I just used the Koran that the site uses to see what a modern interpretation came up with. I am certainly no high priest ... I use www.quranbrowser.com as well. Of course I am naive when it comes to the Koran..
But where is the man who performed the act? Or was she being alleged for having done "self sex"?
I don't see the relevance - perhaps he ran off? perhaps they stoned him earlier?
It seems to me that this verse and I could never agree. I am somewhat hopeful that abdalquran can show what the interpretation really is.
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I am somewhat hopeful that abdalquran can show what the interpretation really is.
He( abdulquran) needs someone to show him more than you .
a blind leads a blind, both shall fall in a ditch
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He( abdulquran) needs someone to show him more than you .
We can both agree on that.a blind leads a blind, both shall fall in a ditch
Would you willingly stand up and be the one to lash someone's mother or someone's brother or someone's child for adultery 100 times? Would you go home proud of your service to Allah?
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Would you willingly stand up and be the one to lash someone's mother or someone's brother or someone's child for adultery 100 times? Would you go home proud of your service to Allah?
Yes, I would if there are four witnessed accused them and saw them doing the sin. it is an order from God and obeying the order of God certainly will make me go home proud of this service of obeying God. don't you think !?