jalada
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peace abdalquran,
Can you translate the passages for us with your rendering. Bearing in mind the grammatical construction of the jld words, e.g. 242
2nd person masculine plural imperative verb
genitive feminine indefinite noun
Then cite a Classical Arabic reference for your construction, if possible.
Thanks.
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Free-Minds Translation
242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them with one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity overtake you regarding the system of God if you believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.
abdalquran how can you interpret that as expose them publicly? You can't reinvent the Koran.
In all honesty, people have been reinventing Qur'Aan over and over again. The reinvention is in all the languages and it is becoming clear and clear every day that what is written in other languages under neath the Arabic Qur'Aan verses and claimed to be the same as the actual Qur'Aanic verse language, may not be even close to what is being discussed in Arabic.
The internet may be the next kind of Gods 'Angels', which is bringing out and revealing the hidden meanings of languages/ message again, as more and more archived texts which have been out of reach of common people are becoming more and more available and with in reach. Those who will make effort to unveil this knowledge once again will do the work of the kind that Prophets did in their lives, as no more traditional prophets are going to be coming anymore. Qur'Aan clearly says that this knowledge was always the same and it became hidden over and over again, and was brought back to understanding, by the Prophets, which is the greatest mercy of our Rabb. This bringing back of hidden knowledge to your conciousness and to the fore front of your mind which has been otherwise hidden is a definition of the word wahi. The process of bringing back the hidden knowledg again to the people, irrespective of the methodology adopted for the different prophets by the God, was the process of wahi. For us the wahi would be going back to the knowledge again with what ever means we have and can utilise, to get the message right once again.
This will require giving up our hang ups , and accepting the fact that only sticking to what you have always thought as right, may very well be the wrong or right interpretation, unless we all agree to scrutinize every thing with the utmost care using the science of linguistics and lexicology, like all other sciences. Just believing a meaning, as a matter of blind belief only ,because certain religious scholar said so and so, could lead us to a wrong path and and a path of total disagreement and confusion, commotion and even hatred between masses. This is so true for most blind followers of most organised religions, as people want to blindly follow in to what they have have been brought up as, and what they have learned growing up, from their families, teachers and surroundings. We hardly ever pause for a moment, and wonder if some of the things we may have been just believing, may not be necessarily rightly interpreted, and may only be a result of the biases of our surroundings.
If correct use of linguistic science is used, like science of all other old languages of this world, we could better come to the real and closest meanings of the actual words. Insisting that only so and so scholar is right and hence, I am only going to accept that as the right meaning, may lead us to possible errors. We need committed people to look over things again and again and again and again, till we are certain beyond the level of just blind belief, to reach the level of what truly wahi has always been about.
May Rabb give us all the right understandig and the eagerness to learn it right.
Peace
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they are not the masters plus the ayat are not cancelled out, so your knowledge of abrogates is so poor, so stop blaming people about your lack of understanding them. and about you love telling people this know that every word are in list (he might be bad list) of you.
You?re right , they?re NOT the masters. They?re the cheats who transformed Islam into something it never was.
My knowledge of abrogation is simply what I quoted from your ulema. The fact is, they don?t know many are abrogated. I challenge you to bring the correct number for me.
Yes, I love telling people this because when they preach to non-muslims about the Quran, they tell you how miraculous it is. How wonderful when the pagan Arabs heard it and cried and all the rubbish. Then, after the person converted, they say ?oh by the way, the Quran has ABROGATED ayat and instead we follow hadith?. What a great religion you have, deformer.
No, they have their reasons, and I think you should read this verse
1274 "but over all endued with knowledge is One, the All-Knowing."
( )It?s 12/76 and very good. Your ulema should remember this before calling anyone kafir for disagreeing with them. It?s all really about politics and how they can control the Muslimeen.
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peace abdalquran,
Can you translate the passages for us with your rendering. Bearing in mind the grammatical construction of the jld words, e.g. 242
2nd person masculine plural imperative verb
genitive feminine indefinite noun
Then cite a Classical Arabic reference for your construction, if possible.
Thanks.Passages? I thought we were only discussing 24/2. When you say ?bearing in mind?, what?d you want me to do with those words? English has no gender and its commands has no connoted numbers.
I?ll translate it anyway
The unchaste woman and man, so expose (that?s your 2nd person thingy) each one from them a hundred exposes(that?s your genetive fem thingy).
As for ?classical arabic references?, I only have access to Lane?s.
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Well yes, it was this view I was thinking of. Thank your for your answer and please allow me to ask further. From what in the formulation do you get this meaning. ?Is it form the word jalada or from what?
SalaamStarting from the word jalada itself, I suspected that it cannot mean 'whip'. Then I consider the qisas/equivalency law which is the foundation of Quranic legal philosophy. 5/44-45 is about this. What is the equivalency for this unchaste person. Well firstly, this person will have shamed his partner. Secondly, this person causes public disruption. So the punishment is not about physical pain. It's about exposing him or her so that in future, people will have nothing to do with this person. See 24/3. Thats the effect of someone being exposed, not being whipped.
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peace abdalquran,
Since you know me, you will know I do not ask my questions without good reason
The unchaste woman and man, so expose (that?s your 2nd person thingy) each one from them a hundred exposes(that?s your genetive fem thingy).
As for ?classical arabic references?, I only have access to Lane?s.
How do you account for one being masculine and one feminine? Can you provide a reference from Lane for the feminine noun of the verb? I haven't checked but I'm not the one advocating the translation.
And since it is us who are commanded to do the exposing a 100 times, can you clarify in what way?
As a side note, your view and my own are not much different. By way of logic, and the meaning of the word meaning skin, it can be shown that the lashes are more symbolic in nature than meant to cause severe pain, but it is possible they would hurt but not break the skin.
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You?re right , they?re NOT the masters. They?re the cheats who transformed Islam into something it never was.
aha, what about you ? you interpret "jalad" by your own desires and you said that it means "expose"/ your rubbish thing is more than theirs and you cheat more than anyone I've seenand you transformed Islam, so you're barking the wrong tree.
My knowledge of abrogation is simply what I quoted from your ulema. The fact is, they don?t know many are abrogated. I challenge you to bring the correct number for me.
aha, you took what they said without even treid to understand the reasons of saying this thing or that thing, and without know that they have take back what they said .Strange .
and about your challenge is ridiculous, and by the way I know the correct number and I will not tell you, go figure
Yes, I love telling people this because when they preach to non-muslims about the Quran, they tell you how miraculous it is. How wonderful when the pagan Arabs heard it and cried and all the rubbish. Then, after the person converted, they say ?oh by the way, the Quran has ABROGATED ayat and instead we follow hadith?. What a great religion you have, deformer.
the only rubbish things I've ever read is your post.
It?s 12/76 and very good. Your ulema should remember this before calling anyone kafir for disagreeing with them. It?s all really about politics and how they can control the Muslimeen.
why do you said your Ulema ? I don't know what do you mean by this word, and it's wrong, at least you can say "Al-Jama3a or Ahel Assuna" . I'm wasting my time with you, no other posts for you . done.
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Since you know me, you will know I do not ask my questions without good reason
Yes I do know that but I think you may be chasing the wrong trail here.
How do you account for one being masculine and one feminine? Can you provide a reference from Lane for the feminine noun of the verb? I haven't checked but I'm not the one advocating the translation.
The ajlidoo (command form for plural masc.) doesn?t refer to the ?targets? but to the doer (the persons doing the exposing). Like ?aqimoo?. As for ?jildah?, it?s like ?salah?, again it doesn?t refer to the ?targets? but to the act itself. Why it?s fem instead of ?jild?, I don?t know.
Secondly
And since it is us who are commanded to do the exposing a 100 times, can you clarify in what way?
I can?t clarify no, but can only suggest. The details aren?t given.
As a side note, your view and my own are not much different. By way of logic, and the meaning of the word meaning skin, it can be shown that the lashes are more symbolic in nature than meant to cause severe pain, but it is possible they would hurt but not break the skin.
Ok, that was my view before.
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Now please show if you were to execute it, how you implement this in real/physical terms.
If I were to do it , I would make 100 public announcements.
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Zina takes place when both mutually consent for intercourse. Why you blame one partner alone and also hold him for causing shame to partner?
Sorry, let me clarify. The zaaniyah committed zina with someone else. Her husband is the one who is shamed.
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If I were to do it , I would make 100 public announcements.
So you would roam about from street to street and loudly shout about it to inform the people, and you will do it repeting for 100 days!! Is this that you mean if you were to implement it a 100 years back.
And what do you think about the Cognate Adverb in the end, what is it for?
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So you would roam about from street to street and loudly shout about it to inform the people, and you will do it repeting for 100 days!! Is this that you mean if you were to implement it a 100 years back.
And what do you think about the Cognate Adverb in the end, what is it for?
this is 21st century Muzhar!
