Some questions to which Quran only followers can't answr, basically they can't !
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If you accept that Muhammad is a source of emulation then you must follow the same method of those around Muhammad, when he was alive, who followed his every steps, in other words they imitated him so that they couldn't go astray and with the aim of being in complete unity with his message which was the revealed verses. You have no other choice than imitation of Muhammad, and to follow Quran alone is not appropriate if you claim that Muhammad is a source of emulation. Either your source of emulation is Muhammad so to be in unity with Quran, either your source of emulation is Quran so to be in unity with nobody. What is your choice please ?
Thanks for repeating you above answer. My question remains How do I know these people followed Muhammad corrrectly? I never met them. Maybe they completely missed the point. Maybe they werent even real sahaba. There were hypocrites in madina to (9/101).
In this topic I am only discussing about the orhtopraxy and mainly about salat, hajj, siyam, and zakat that the Quran Alone Followers disfigured
Disfigured? You cannot disfigure something which wasn't real to begin with. You think the Quran teaches these things? Kindly bring your evidence forward. We have pages and pages of counter arguments from the past.
If you accept that Muhammad is a source of emulation then you must follow the same method of those around Muhammad so that you couldn't go astray and with the aim of being in complete unity with his message which was the revealed verses. Don't forget oral transmission of visual informations are also credible and don't throw them like garbage.
Is this your dhikr now? You seem to be repeating yourself a lot. Kindly refer to the above for my rebuttal.
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My first multiple-question is After the death of Prophet Muhammad until the reign of Umar Abd al-Aziz during which the first ahadiths book was compiled by Ibn Shihab al-Zuhri according to Ibn Hajar, what type of Islam, the muslim were following ? There were no one book of ahadiths, only Quran. So, how did muslim pray ? What amount of zakat did they give ? How did they do Hajj ? How did they do Fast ?
there was only one 'type' of Islam which was from Quran. Soon after his death they started to split into groups and change things
they prayed as Quran instructed and as Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc prayed which is in Quran, bowing, prostrating, standing, reciting Quran.
they gave regular charity as instructed in Quran and as instructed to Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc which was what they could afford regularly
they did the pilgrimage as instructed in Quran and as was instructed to Abraham, Moses Jesus etc
They fasted as instructed in Quran and as instructed to Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc.Before the revelation to Muhammed, did he pray, fast, give charity? If so, how?
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As I predicted, no one really answered to my question. All I see is a quick rushing towards Quranic verses while my first question was very simple. I am not vilifying you but only as a notice.
you seem to think its so awful that one would actually look in Quran to find your answers ??? What do you have against Quran?My second multiple-question is What kind of muslim am I, if I even don't know how the one who conveyed the message of Allah did his prayer, his hajj, his fast or gave zakat while I am already acquainted by the fact that the only source of emulation is the same person (ie. Muhammad) ? If somebody denies this obvious reality then please explain me in full details why those around Muhammad, when he was alive, followed his every steps, in other words they imitated him so that they couldn't go astray and with the aim of being in complete unity with his message which was the revealed verses, whereas today when we see the Movement of Quran Alone, the sole thing that we perceive is discrepencies (worse than what we can find in Sunnism and Shiism particularly when it comes to rituals) amongst it followers (ie. see my above non exhaustive list) ?
The same kind of Muslim Abraham Moses Jesus etc and their followers were, as they never observed Muhammed's prayer or had hadith of his either.
What seems to be 'obvious reality' to you isnt necessarily 'obvious reality' to other people. In fact the 'obvious reality' to us is Quran and the message from Allah, not the messenger that brought it. You are told not to distinguish from any of Gods messengers so why are you? Why do you deny the Quran is complete and fully detailed with what we NEED to know.
Your questions are similar to asking a vegetarian 'well how do you know how to cook roast beef?' when cooking roast beef is not needed to know how to be vegetarian.
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If you accept that Muhammad is a source of emulation then you must follow the same method of those around Muhammad, when he was alive, who followed his every steps, in other words they imitated him so that they couldn't go astray and with the aim of being in complete unity with his message which was the revealed verses. You have no other choice than imitation of Muhammad, and to follow Quran alone is not appropriate if you claim that Muhammad is a source of emulation. Either your source of emulation is Muhammad so to be in unity with Quran, either your source of emulation is Quran so to be in unity with nobody. What is your choice please ?
And the answer of this question of yours is coming in my next message.
It seems from this that you accept this was Muhammed's message and not Allah's message given through a messenger. interesting. You are distinguishing among prophets, which Quran - The Message from Allah- tells you not to.
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Your questions are similar to asking a vegetarian 'well how do you know how to cook roast beef?' when cooking roast beef is not needed to know how to be vegetarian.
;D ;D ;D
But Ayisha, your example is not valid because you're overlooking a very crucial point -- being a vegetarian is forbidden! Or are there any ahadeeth describing the prophet or his companions as vegetarians?!? You can't follow their example if you don't eat meat!!!
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Dear Ayisha
Unfortunately, you are getting it wrong when giving your analogy of distiguishing between the Messengers. We are told not to distinguish between the Messengers relating to accepting some and not accepting others.
The Quran itself makes a distinction between them in the following ayat
2253 Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others among them were such as.were spoken to by God , and some He has raised yet higher.' And We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth, and strengthened him with holy inspiration. And if God had so willed, they who succeeded those would not have contended with one another after all evidence of the truth had come to them; but they did take to divergent views, and some of them attained to faith, while some of them came to deny the truth. Yet if God had so willed, they would not have contended with one another but God does whatever He wills.
When one person is given something more than another, that clearly is a distinction.
Peace
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i'm surprised why so many hadithfollowers are obsessed with rituals...
why is that the first question they ask...if you read the quran, is "prayer" really the main focus of it?
somehow inheritance is explained in detail whom to give and how much, who to marry and who to not marry is also explained at once, step by step... yet "prayer" is not explained like that, and still they put more value on it... strange...same goes for muhammad, if this particular prophet was anything more special then rest, the entire quran would be about him, it wouldn't be 'obey the messenger' but 'obey muhammad'... and the fact that there are stories of other messengers in this book says a lot... focus on the story, the message it brings, not the messenger...
as for salat, people will always disagree what it is and how it should be done...
that doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong, real salat has positive results -
Yes, it is strange when Salaat is mentioned over 700 times and even stranger when we are told to obey the Prophet PBUH and let him judge and decide in all our matters.
465 But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not believe unless they make thee a judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up in utter self-surrender.
Very strange indeed!
Peace
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hadith followers and thumpers are so obsessed with daily rituals that they make their life difficult. the purpose of religion is not to tell you what to do, how to do and perform every moment of your life. its purpose is to remind you of monotheism, the hereafter, and to teach you the basics of right and wrong so we can lead a peaceful and righteous life in this world and achieve salvation.
God does not have shortage of words right? so if the quran doesnt contain steps of salaat, so either there is a misprint or perhaps God forgot about it? The answer is NO.
Maybe a Goat ate those verses too lol rotfl
Read surah 2125 that tells you to take salaat from maqam-e-ibrahim at the kaaba. maqam-e-ibrahim is the spot where the imam stands to lead the daily prayer.
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Dear Ayisha
Unfortunately, you are getting it wrong when giving your analogy of distiguishing between the Messengers. We are told not to distinguish between the Messengers relating to accepting some and not accepting others.
The Quran itself makes a distinction between them in the following ayat
2253 Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others among them were such as.were spoken to by God , and some He has raised yet higher.' And We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth, and strengthened him with holy inspiration. And if God had so willed, they who succeeded those would not have contended with one another after all evidence of the truth had come to them; but they did take to divergent views, and some of them attained to faith, while some of them came to deny the truth. Yet if God had so willed, they would not have contended with one another but God does whatever He wills.
When one person is given something more than another, that clearly is a distinction.
Peace
Allah clearly says many times 'WE make no distinction among them', whether HE does is not relevant and from your post if YOU need to make a distinction based on Allahs distinction then why are you not following Jesus? If you think HIS verses saying WE make no distinction means just accepting some and not others then again WHY are you only following what is CLAIMED to be Muhammed's hadith?
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Yes, it is strange when Salaat is mentioned over 700 times and even stranger when we are told to obey the Prophet PBUH and let him judge and decide in all our matters.
because at that time he was alive and with the people who got the message first hand. He judged according to Quran, not according to himself.465 But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not believe unless they make thee a judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up in utter self-surrender.
Very strange indeed!
PeaceYou cannot make a judge of a dead man and you cannot prove the hadith are from him either. What we have is Quran which we can use to judge. There are enough verses telling you there is no other hadith to follow after this complete fully detailed book, do you skim over those?
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Yes, it is strange when Salaat is mentioned over 700 times
yes mentioned over 700 times so if there was a specific ritual to follow in doing it then its very strange Allah didnt put that IN during those 700 mentions. In 700 times it is mentioned it is VERY clear on HOW and WHAT to do yet you rely on another book from man to guide you?very strange indeed! ???
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Yes, it is strange when Salaat is mentioned over 700 times and even stranger when we are told to obey the Prophet PBUH and let him judge and decide in all our matters.
It's not mentioned over 700 times. Maybe 100-200. And in all that, not once does God talk about any ritualistic act. In fact, salat becomes something even mushrikeen (9/11) and those who do not believe do (5/106).
465 But nay, by thy Sustainer! They do not believe unless they make thee a judge of all on which they disagree among themselves, and then find in their hearts no bar to an acceptance of thy decision and give themselves up in utter self-surrender.
How does the Prophet judge?
5/48 And We have sent down to you the Book in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it and Mohayminan (trustworthy in highness and a witness) over it (old Scriptures). So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their vain desires...
Very strange indeed!Peace
Not really, it's very consistent. He was told to judge amongst men by the Book. The book is singular and agreed upon. What IS strange is saying 'follow him as a judge' then tell us that all his judgements are in SEPARATE BOOKS which btw, were compiled hundreds of years later. These books have a whole other philosophy of religion than the Quran. THAT is very strange..
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Unfortunately you guys are in getting it wrong again.
The Quran is the Statute and the Judgements which the Prophet PBUH issued using the Statute (Quran) as his criteria and guide when judging are what we use as case studies, are recorded seperately for reference as would be the norm in any court of law. Surely, it can't be that difficult to understand.
Anyway, each person unto their own and good luck to everyone in finding the right path for them.
Peace
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there was only one 'type' of Islam which was from Quran. Soon after his death they started to split into groups and change things
they prayed as Quran instructed and as Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc prayed which is in Quran, bowing, prostrating, standing, reciting Quran.
they gave regular charity as instructed in Quran and as instructed to Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc which was what they could afford regularly
they did the pilgrimage as instructed in Quran and as was instructed to Abraham, Moses Jesus etc
They fasted as instructed in Quran and as instructed to Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc.Before the revelation to Muhammed, did he pray, fast, give charity? If so, how?
Finally somebody initiates to answer to my first question. Thank you very much for your answer buddy.
Here again the four probable answers for my first question
ANSWER A - After Muhammad, Muslim didn't pray, didn't go to Hajj, didn't give zakat, didn't fast
ANSWER B - After Muhammad, Muslim invented a whole orthopraxycal system in which they include salat, hajj, zakat, siyam
ANSWER C - After Muhammad, Muslim followed Quran (means audible informations only)
ANSWER D - After Muhammad, Muslim relied on the visual informations and audible informations throughout the oral based transmission of knowledge and this resulted in the writings of 2 type of BOOKS the first is the uthmanian vulgate (Quran) and the second are the books of Ahadiths
So you choose ANSWER C.