Some questions to which Quran only followers can't answr, basically they can't !
-
http//www.muslimyouth.net/forum/images/smilies/mblah05.gifhttp//www.muslimyouth.net/forum/images/smilies/mblah05.gifhttp//www.muslimyouth.net/forum/images/smilies/mblah05.gifhttp//www.muslimyouth.net/forum/images/smilies/mblah05.gifhttp//www.muslimyouth.net/forum/images/smilies/mblah05.gif
Say "You people (of) The Book, come to a word equal/straight, between us and you, that we do not worship except God, and we do not share/make partners with Him a thing, and (we) do not take some of us, some (as) lords from other than God." So if they turned away, so say "Witness/testify with that (we are) submitters/surrenderers/Moslems."
Someone here mentioned "real salat has positive results"... let's look at this salat they do.
Let's look at the health claims they talk about.
How about the claims of jamat helping solve racism?
I'm sure when people do so together, it helps me to get rid of my stress.
-
Dear Jawad,
The fact is that you and all other sectarians, i.e., sunnis(all different sects of them), and shi?ahs(all different sects of them), are the examples of the people who the Prophet(pbuh) will complain about on the Judgment day.
2530, ?And the messenger said O my Lord verily my people took This Qur?aan far, far away from themselves.?
Jawad, in all of your posts, you?ve systematically been running away from the verses of The Qur?aan just like the example of the FRIGHTENED DONKEYS in verses 7449,50. Jawad, Islam has been the only acceptable religion to GOD since the days of Adam. Islam was not started with the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Islamic rituals have been firmly in place and practiced for thousands of years. The SALAAH, the ZAKAAH, the SAWM, and the HAJJ, all are very old Islamic practices. In The Qur?aan, ALLAAH(SWT) has made corrections to any one of them that had been changed by MAN throughout the history, like wudzu/abultion . The ones that had been intact and not altered GOD did not bring them up in The Qur?aan., so no mention of how to perform them, just like the ritual of circumcision. Even the disbelievers used to come to the congregational prayers only to show off and in the state of boredom, and did not pay zakaah but in the state of unwillingness. Just see 954.
The Prophet himself just followed their common practice like everyone else within the community. He did not innovate any new rituals.
The point is that Muslims have no quarrels with the sectarians other than saying that the religion MUST be about the worship of GOD Alone. All we are saying to them is to stop idolizing the prophets and worship GOD only. We?ve been telling them to obey GOD throught The Qru?aan and do NOT make any differentiations among the messengers or GOD. We are saying that the Shahaadah must be all about GOD Alone. We are saying to them not to mention any other name in their prayers except GOD. We are saying to them not to call upon anyone else in their call to prayer/ADZAN, but GOD. We are saying not to implore anyone in your DU?AA?, but GOD. We are saying to them The Qur?aan is the ONLY source of religious guidance; do not use any other source like hadith, sunnah, rawaaya, and? alongside with The Qur?aan. We are telling them that there is only one SACRED mosque and that is the one in the city of Mecca with the KA?BAH right in the middle of its courtyard. We are saying to them that the months of performing HAJJ pilgrimage are the four consecutive sacred/HARAAM months. We are asking them to restore those FOUR months back to their original places within the lunar calendar in order to minimize the hardship on the people trying to perform their GOD prescribed HAJJ pilgrimage. And finally, we are telling them not to make unlawful what GOD has not made unlawful and vice versa. We are not declaring anything new. We are just propagating the practice of the faith according to The Qur?aan Alone. We are telling them to reform and repent and come back to The Qur?aan. That?s all.
Peace,
Khalil -
Dear kgwithnob
But to us, you are the newly invented sects and are the sectarians. Your founding forefathers are merely a century old. Following the Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH is not an act of idolatry but an act of obedience to Allah SWT because Allah SWT directs us to obey the Messenger and make him the judge of all our affairs, who told us and taught us how to worship only Allah SWT in line with the Quran. The Prophet PBUH came down as a mercy, light and warner for all mankind and not merely for his nation or tribe. But you dudes beg to differ and slate him as though he was just another dude walking down the street having no relevance to mankind at all, even though he was personally entrusted by Allah SWT to deliver and teach the greatest miracle of all time (the Quran). This duty, honour and commitment did not fall in any other human beings lap, just like when Mary Mother of Jesus was Chosen by Allah SWT above all women from all nations. For this honour, Allah SWT even names a Surah in the Quran after her (Chapter 19 Surah Maryam). The Message that the Prophet PBUH delivered is universal and applicable until the end of time ie. Day of Judgement. You guys have absolutely no problem following and accepting the rules and regulations of your chosen elected leaders who only serve for fixed appointed terms, but have a problem in accepting a leader who was chosen by your Creator for the whole of mankind until the end of time!
We do accept the Quran in it's totality but we do not get stuck when it comes to understanding the Quran and it's injunctions. This is the fundamental difference between us.
Islam from the time of Adam and Islam from the time of the Prophet PBUH is not the same which you have incorrectly tried to stipulate. The Quran confirms that Salaat, Saum, Zakaat and Hajj were obligatory to previous nations to which there is no doubt. But their methods were different. This is why Allah SWT tells us in the Quran and not in previous scriptures that today he has perfected our religion for us which is Islam and will not accept anything else. The Quran also tells us that new laws are also now revealed, which means that old things have now changed. Allah SWT does not say that Islam was perfected at the time of Adam so follow the way of Adam. Allah SWT tells us that he will not accept anything else but Islam. Now, if this is the case and we the masses have been following the incorrect way from the offset for at least 1400 years, ie. our Salaat is wrong, our Saum is wrong, our Zakaat is wrong and our Hajj is wrong, then this means that from the time that Islam has been perfected, nobody has been following Islam and thus nothing has been accepted by Allah SWT.
We can confidentally say that what we follow is the right way because the law of averages favour us and not you. We have at least 1300 years in our favour because if we were to apply simple arithmetic you will see the following Bukhari hadeeth approx 1200 years. Beyond Bukhari, the four schools of thought, so deduct another 100 years so we have at least 1300 years of the same. We can go back at least 1300 years of the same rites and rituals that are practiced today. Now if these are still intact because we lost souls have been duped for over 1200 years which is exactly what you guys are saying when Bukhari bashing, then there is a high possibility that the 100 or so years that lead us to the Prophet PBUH from the 1300 years, would also see the same rites and rituals to be intact because we have kept intact 1300 years of the same, so another 100 is no problem. Right.
The irony is that we worship Allah SWT Alone and only Allah SWT in manners that have been prescribed, where you guys say you worship Allah SWT but you don't know how you worship Him. This is something you guys are still trying to work out even though it's right in front of your faces but you want to disregard it in full and come up with a new format but don't know what format. This is the problem.
You cannot tell us or even agree amongst yourselves the manner of Salaat, Saum, Zakaat and Hajj. It's an each person for himself attitude for those that actually accept any form of rites or rituals because some of you don't even believe in Salaat, Saum, Zakaat and Hajj unfortunately.
Don't get me wrong, there was a stage in my life where I thought that you guys could in fact actually be correct and was nearly swayed into your way of thinking, but after studying, introspection and weighing up the evidence, I was never taught wrong in the first place and the problem in my eyes lies with you guys and not us. For the majority of Muslims worldwide in this day and age and for hundreds of years previously, following the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH has always been the correct way and go hand in hand as stipulated by Allah SWT Himself.
Maybe it's you guys that need to reform repent and come back to the Quran because one cannot fix something if it is not broken or improve something which is already perfect, which unfortunately is what you guys are trying to do.
Finally, I honestly believe that the name of this site should be changed from Free-Minds to Desire-Minds because this is exactly what is being propogated here. Ones Desires.
4523 HAST THOU ever considered who makes his own desires his deity, and whom God has let go astray, knowing , and whose hearing and heart He has sealed, and upon whose sight He has placed a veil? Who, then, could guide him after God ? Will you not, then, bethink your?selves?
Peace
-
Finally, I honestly believe that the name of this site should be changed from Free-Minds to Desire-Minds because this is exactly what is being propogated here. Ones Desires.
As opposed to Sunni scholarship who say Quran is the first source of sharia yet can't decide
- which sura or ayah are makkan or medinan
- which ayah are abrogated
- which ayah were eaten by goats, horses, or any other agricultural animal
- which hadith are sahih
- why some hadith blatantly contradict the quran.
You guys should rename yourselves 'quran comes last if at all minds'
-
The irony is that we worship Allah SWT Alone and only Allah SWT in manners that have been prescribed, where you guys say you worship Allah SWT but you don't know how you worship Him. This is something you guys are still trying to work out even though it's right in front of your faces but you want to disregard it in full and come up with a new format but don't know what format. This is the problem
Nonsense. There is no 'how'. Worshipping Allah is living correctly. I can't try to treat my camel properly because I don't have a camel. Those rituals can help, sure but they're not a must.
-
Most of muslim ritualistic practices existed before Islam either in polytheistic bedouins milieu or jews and christians milieu of Medina. When Muhammad became the messenger of Allah, he used to pray in Kaaba and once in Medina after his emigration he formalized those rituals by purging them of all things that could undermine monotheism (Allah alone worship). Bowing and prostration were parts of the bedouin's rituals if you don't know, even turning around the Kaaba. This step of formalization was necessary to give an identity to the followers of Muhammad's message and to strenghten the cohesion between his followers. In fact, when Muhammad came to Medina he had to build a new muslim society to which he gave ritual codes, social codes, political codes etc. based upon the divine inspirations (revealed verses) that he received.
Peace,
Respectfully.Muhammad had to build new society, to which he gave ritual codes? Are you serious?
2127 And as Abraham raised from the Sanctuary its foundations, along with Ishmael ?Our Lord accept this from us, You are the Hearer, the Knowledgeable.?
2128 ?Our Lord, and let us submit to You and from our progeny a nation submitting to You, and show us our rites, and forgive us; You are the Forgiver, the Merciful.?
2129 ?Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise.?Have you read 2215, 219, 6141? It says to whom to give, how much to give and when to give, i'm sure you can see it, bro.
Take care.Peace.
-
For sure I will but before I post some more questions, let all participants to this topic clearly answer to my 2 previous questions. They even can't choose one answer from the four I give, to answer to my first question.
My first question is After the death of Prophet Muhammad until the first Ahadiths Book, what type of Islam, the muslim were following as there were no one book of ahadiths, only Quran. So, how did muslim pray, what amount of zakat did they give, how did they do Hajj, how did they do Fast ?
Here again the four probable answers for my first question
ANSWER A - After Muhammad, Muslim didn't pray, didn't go to Hajj, didn't give zakat, didn't fast
ANSWER B - After Muhammad, Muslim invented a whole orthopraxycal system in which they include salat, hajj, zakat, siyam
ANSWER C - After Muhammad, Muslim followed Quran (means audible informations only)
ANSWER D - After Muhammad, Muslim relied on the visual informations and audible informations throughout the oral based transmission of knowledge and this resulted in the writings of 2 type of BOOKS the first is the uthmanian vulgate (Quran) and the second are the books of Ahadiths
Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.After messenger Muhammad died, there was only one Islam, just like during his lifetime and before his life Quranic rituals were known, remember what Abraham asked for in chapter 2.
After messenger Muhammad died, there were no sunnis, shias, wahabis and whatnot, there were muslims, submitters, monotheists, believers in One God. They followed The Quran and they had it even memorized. This is why i posted earlier that no one is to marry his wives after his death so that they can write copies of The Quran without someone adding "sunnah and hadith" or deleting those two verses that some of us argue about (9128, 129).
I would like you to read this link and see how the prayer was performed according to Quran
http//www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/al-salat_(P1192).html
If you read chapter 2 more carefully, God willing, you will read this
2183 O you who believe, fasting has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.
2184 A few number of days; however, if any of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if only you knew.
2185 A month of aspiration, in which the Qur?an was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the Criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
2186 And if My servants ask you about Me, I am near answering the calls of those who call to Me. So let them respond to Me and believe in Me that they may be guided.
2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are the boundaries of God, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God clarifies His revelations to the people who they may be righteous.2215 They ask you what they should spend, say ?What you spend out of goodness should go to your family and the relatives and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer. And any good you do, God is fully aware of it.?
2219 They ask you about intoxicants and gambling. Say ?In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.? And they ask you how much they are to give, say ?The excess.? It is thus that God clarifies for you the revelations that you may think.
6141 And He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; and palm trees, and plants, all with different taste; and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Eat from its fruit when it blossoms and give its due on the day of harvest; and do not waste. He does not like the wasteful.Do you see the details regarding fasting?
Do you see the wisdom of 6141? beautiful.Hajj http//free-minds.org/hajj
You're gonna love this article, brother.Since we are told that we should follow The Creed Of Abraham, that tells me that Abraham had already asked for the rituals, since prayers were already known by the time of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, they just did not pray to God but rather to a cow, the sun, moon, stars, planets, pharaohs, everything but The Creator. Messengers were sent to call them back to the straight path.
Peace.
-
Dear kgwithnob
But to us, you are the newly invented sects and are the sectarians. Your founding forefathers are merely a century old. Following the Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH is not an act of idolatry but an act of obedience to Allah SWT because Allah SWT directs us to obey the Messenger and make him the judge of all our affairs, who told us and taught us how to worship only Allah SWT in line with the Quran.
The prophet is dead and the things you follow and practice are invented by man, you are not following the prophet you are following bukhari, muslim, etc. The prophet followed ONLY Quran, ONLY Allah. Everything he did is in Quran.
The Prophet PBUH came down as a mercy, light and warner for all mankind and not merely for his nation or tribe. But you dudes beg to differ and slate him as though he was just another dude walking down the street having no relevance to mankind at all, even though he was personally entrusted by Allah SWT to deliver and teach the greatest miracle of all time (the Quran). This duty, honour and commitment did not fall in any other human beings lap, just like when Mary Mother of Jesus was Chosen by Allah SWT above all women from all nations. For this honour, Allah SWT even names a Surah in the Quran after her (Chapter 19 Surah Maryam). The Message that the Prophet PBUH delivered is universal and applicable until the end of time ie. Day of Judgement.
and look what Catholics have done to Mary! The Mother of GOD?? yes Muhammed was chosen and no one has slated him. Not agreeing with hadith is in NO WAY saying we dont agree with HIM, the difference is that I personally dont think these hadith CAME from HIM. They were compiled over 200 years after his death for one thing so no one was around that LIVED at that time with HIM. Look how quickly the people of Moses started worshipping a calf again, 40 DAYS!! There is proof that directly after his death they split into sects, so how do you think we are ever going to have one ummah when those that were with him, heard him, immediately started to change things to their own DESIRES, exactly as we were warned about in Quran and exactly as happened before, and Allah KNEW this would happen and thats WHY you are told not to follow any other hadith after this hadith from Allah.You guys have absolutely no problem following and accepting the rules and regulations of your chosen elected leaders who only serve for fixed appointed terms, but have a problem in accepting a leader who was chosen by your Creator for the whole of mankind until the end of time!
No Muhammed was chosen to deliver Quran, he is not HERE to lead, all we have left of him is the message he delivered and that was his ONLY duty.We do accept the Quran in it's totality but we do not get stuck when it comes to understanding the Quran and it's injunctions. This is the fundamental difference between us.
No you look in other books to explain it. Books made by man. use your brains and think as you were instructed to do in Quran.Islam from the time of Adam and Islam from the time of the Prophet PBUH is not the same which you have incorrectly tried to stipulate. The Quran confirms that Salaat, Saum, Zakaat and Hajj were obligatory to previous nations to which there is no doubt. But their methods were different. This is why Allah SWT tells us in the Quran and not in previous scriptures that today he has perfected our religion for us which is Islam and will not accept anything else.
The religion was 'perfected' as in it is now COMPLETED 'completed my favour upon you' islam has always been the same, worship ONE GOD and enjoin no partners with Him from Adam to Muhammed. Muhammed brough no new laws and old messages are part of the same. Quran warns what happened with the message before and it warns you not to do it again but Allah also says He knows what man is like and they WILL change it and leave Quran, which is what you are doing.The Quran also tells us that new laws are also now revealed, which means that old things have now changed. Allah SWT does not say that Islam was perfected at the time of Adam so follow the way of Adam. Allah SWT tells us that he will not accept anything else but Islam. Now, if this is the case and we the masses have been following the incorrect way from the offset for at least 1400 years, ie. our Salaat is wrong, our Saum is wrong, our Zakaat is wrong and our Hajj is wrong, then this means that from the time that Islam has been perfected, nobody has been following Islam and thus nothing has been accepted by Allah SWT.
what new laws? No Gods system of Islam was not 'perfected' but it was started back with Adam and finished, finalized, perfected with Muhammed
reciting Quran, the final chapter, the last episode. This is the last time I will WARN you. Muhammed was a WARNER delivering the final warning to mankind. As for nothing accepted by Allah, nothing is accepted but Islam, total submission to HIM alone, but you knew that, He warned you.We can confidentally say that what we follow is the right way because the law of averages favour us and not you. We have at least 1300 years in our favour because if we were to apply simple arithmetic you will see the following Bukhari hadeeth approx 1200 years. Beyond Bukhari, the four schools of thought, so deduct another 100 years so we have at least 1300 years of the same. We can go back at least 1300 years of the same rites and rituals that are practiced today. Now if these are still intact because we lost souls have been duped for over 1200 years which is exactly what you guys are saying when Bukhari bashing, then there is a high possibility that the 100 or so years that lead us to the Prophet PBUH from the 1300 years, would also see the same rites and rituals to be intact because we have kept intact 1300 years of the same, so another 100 is no problem. Right.
Wrong. I have given a list of sects that sprang up before Muhammed was cold in his grave. People went back to the old ways, invented new ones and carried on, just as they always had before, just as Allah warned they will and just as He warned that the majority follow nothing bu conjecture. Do you think after 2000 years that Christians listen that they were wrong too? all those changes happened less than 350 years after Christ. The Jews added the hadith of Moses and changed things in what God gave, you KNOW this, its IN QURAN, why dont you listen?The irony is that we worship Allah SWT Alone and only Allah SWT in manners that have been prescribed, where you guys say you worship Allah SWT but you don't know how you worship Him. This is something you guys are still trying to work out even though it's right in front of your faces but you want to disregard it in full and come up with a new format but don't know what format. This is the problem.
You say you worship Allah alone, so why is Muhammed in the adhan and the prayer and the shahadah? There is no new format and the only new format is what you are doing.
You cannot tell us or even agree amongst yourselves the manner of Salaat, Saum, Zakaat and Hajj. It's an each person for himself attitude for those that actually accept any form of rites or rituals because some of you don't even believe in Salaat, Saum, Zakaat and Hajj unfortunately.
you cannot tell me that every muslim in your ummah majority does all these exactly the same either because I know thats not true. Your scholars and people you put in high places to use their brains so you dont have to cannot decide on anything and make it up as they go along!
THTA is where your new rules and laws comes from, NOT from Allah or Muhammed.Don't get me wrong, there was a stage in my life where I thought that you guys could in fact actually be correct and was nearly swayed into your way of thinking, but after studying, introspection and weighing up the evidence, I was never taught wrong in the first place and the problem in my eyes lies with you guys and not us. For the majority of Muslims worldwide in this day and age and for hundreds of years previously, following the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet PBUH has always been the correct way and go hand in hand as stipulated by Allah SWT Himself.
then if Allah gave you that chance and you blocked it I feel for you, you will continue to follow man and his majority and you will be lost as Quran says. If you feel your way is correct then Alhamdulillah, I feel my way is for me, Alhamdulillah.
Maybe it's you guys that need to reform repent and come back to the Quran because one cannot fix something if it is not broken or improve something which is already perfect, which unfortunately is what you guys are trying to do.
You need to read this part back to yourself a few times and you might get what you have said. ;DFinally, I honestly believe that the name of this site should be changed from Free-Minds to Desire-Minds because this is exactly what is being propogated here. Ones Desires.
4523 HAST THOU ever considered who makes his own desires his deity, and whom God has let go astray, knowing , and whose hearing and heart He has sealed, and upon whose sight He has placed a veil? Who, then, could guide him after God ? Will you not, then, bethink your?selves?
Peace
I think the name of this site is great. Free minds, not locked in the web of deceipt given to you by enemies of Allah and His words. I also think you need to read again what you wrote here as its US that are not following our desires but following God's Words of Quran, instead of someone elses desires you follow because you are too scared to think for yourself as you were instructed to in Quran.
-
Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.Sister Ayisha, this was the most beautiful post you have written for him and i hope God will reward you with Paradise, God willing, this is the exact same conversation i had with several sunnis from London Central Mosque and elsewhere, almost exact same.
What you told him is the same thing i tell them but God guides whomever He wishes.
God bless you.
Peace. -
Dear zulu12,
Like I said, half of your post is set aside to idolize the Prophet(pbuh). In spit of The Qur?aanic directives emphasizing Muhammad was only a human just LIKE us, see 18110, You the sectarians(all different sects) turned back on your heels 180 degrees right after the Prophet?s death, see 3144, and went right back to the way of your forefathers, started idolizing the created mortals instead of worshiping ALLAH(swt) ALONE.
Like I said, you are even frightened to mention any verses of The Qur?aan in your posts as references to your claims. You?ve got stuck with the 1400-YEAR DEAD MAN and forgot all about THE LIVING, THE ETERNAL, and The Qur?aan He has sent down for us through the messenger, but you completely have forgotten the MESSAGE, 2530, and worshiping the messenger that could?ve been any human picked by GOD if He Willed.
Like I said, you, instead of upholding the SALAAH for commemoration of ALLAH ALONE, 2014, you mention the DEAD prophets and their companions and their families and? in your salaah. If that is not idolizing others, than GOD, then what is it?
Like I said, you call upon other than ALLAAH in your call to prayers/ADZAN in spite of the straightforward verse 7218 in The Qur?aan. In the ?1st pillar? of your belief, SHAHAADAH, in spite of the straightforward verse 318, among others, in The Qur?aan, instead you?ve been following the verse 631. If that is not idol worship, then what is it?
Like I said, because you idolize the Prophet, you DO make dedifferentiation between the messengers of GOD instead of following the straightforward verses of The Qur?aan, commanding you not to do that, see 2285, among others.
Like I said, you consider the Prophet to intercede on your behalf at the Judgment in spite of the straightforward verse 2254, among others.
Like I said, in spite of the existence of ONLY ONE SACRED mosque, i.e., ALMASJIDULHARAAM in Mecca, you consider the prophet?s mosque in Medina to be another masjidulharaam as well, and have made its pilgrimage almost mandatory in completing the HAJJ ritual.
Last but not least, and like I said, in spit of straightforward directives in The Qur?aan, see 937, not to change the FOUR SACRED/HARAAM MONTHS around, you have changed them all around. According to The Qur?aan the four sacred months must be four CONSECUTIVE months, but you?ve separated them from each other. According to The Qru?aan the months of HAJJ pilgrimage are the FOUR CONSECUTIVE SACRED months, but you have limited HAJJ to the be performed only in a TORTUROUS and RUSHING several days of the last month of the lunar year.
Of course there are a lot more transgressions on the part of the sectarians, which we can elaborate in the future GOD WILLING.
Peace,
Khlil -
Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.I think sunnis refer to "sahih hadeeth by Bukhary" because they believe that they need to see the Muhammad's examples.
Well, then1789 And We have dispatched to the people in this Qur'an from every example, but most of the people refuse to be anything but rejecters!
I believe that this verse speaks loud, don't you?
God bless you.
Peace. -
Why do people get lost in these threads of idle discourse ending in no useful conclusions while the majority of other threads get ignored while they question useful things that could lead to major advances in the piecing together of the quranic puzzle?
We have already established that some pieces of the puzzle are made by a different manufacturer yet we still divert useful time into trying to decide who manufactures these pieces...
you cannot tell me that every muslim in your ummah majority does all these exactly the same either because I know thats not true. Your scholars and people you put in high places to use their brains so you dont have to cannot decide on anything and make it up as they go along!
THTA is where your new rules and laws comes from, NOT from Allah or Muhammed.Imagine the path of the one creator as a single straight line. Other paths are curved, some to more or less degree than others. At some point in the curve, the tangent to the curve is directly aligned with the straight path's tangent. These are the wholesome judgements that come from scholars, but like a curved line, there are very few points on the curve where such a rule is implemented, the rest of the curve is not aligned with the creator. Every so often the intersection of two curves/hadeethist scholars combines in such a way to reduce curvature to zero and once again, a judgement following the straight path is made. All good is from the creator and all bad is from one's own soul and indirectly, also from the creator.
-
My first question is After the death of Prophet Muhammad until the first Ahadiths Book, what type of Islam, the muslim were following as there were no one book of ahadiths, only Quran. So, how did muslim pray, what amount of zakat did they give, how did they do Hajj, how did they do Fast ?
You left out the proper sunna of eating watermelon which according to one of the sunni schools (Ibn Hambal) they were not sure to cut it or bite, thus refused to eat watermelon altogether...
http//www.answering-islam.de/Main/Books/Wollaston/Accounts/chapt6.htm
"So scrupulous was this theologian in his veneration for the Prophet of Arabia, that he would not eat watermelons because, although aware that the Master whom he adored, indulged in them, it was uncertain whether the founder of Islam peeled off the rind, or whether he broke, bit, or cut them!"
I received as a gift a nice pair of Josef Seibel (most be Jewish) sandals from Nordstrom's -- are they proper?
http//www.shoes.com/ProductImages/shoes_iaec1137596.jpg
-
You left out the proper sunna of eating watermelon which according to one of the sunni schools (Ibn Hambal) they were not sure to cut it or bite, thus refused to eat watermelon altogether...
http//www.answering-islam.de/Main/Books/Wollaston/Accounts/chapt6.htm
"So scrupulous was this theologian in his veneration for the Prophet of Arabia, that he would not eat watermelons because, although aware that the Master whom he adored, indulged in them, it was uncertain whether the founder of Islam peeled off the rind, or whether he broke, bit, or cut them!"
I received as a gift a nice pair of Josef Seibel (most be Jewish) sandals from Nordstrom's -- are they proper?
http//www.shoes.com/ProductImages/shoes_iaec1137596.jpg
They are Haram for you better if you gift it to me laugh
-
It seems to me, in light of this discussion and the quran, god is challenging us to choose whether to believe the Quran's historic accounts which goes against alot of the history as we know it today or choose to believe man made history....
-
The only questions you guys need to answer is how can we be wrong for over 1300 years (and I'm using your own timeframes here) and you guys be right over 100 years when we both have access to the same information? We have far more experience and knowledge than you guys. 1300 v 100.
Have you guys come up with a 'Holy Grail' which only the chosen few can see or something?
Where was your deviant sect over the last 1300 years?
Why now?
Take your time.
Peace
-
The only questions you guys need to answer is how can we be wrong for over 1300 years (and I'm using your own timeframes here) and you guys be right over 100 years when we both have access to the same information? We have far more experience and knowledge than you guys. 1300 v 100.
Have you guys come up with a 'Holy Grail' which only the chosen few can see or something?
Where was your deviant sect over the last 1300 years?
Why now?
Take your time.
PeaceHow can you get it wrong for 1300 years? Same as Christians have for over 2000 years and Jews more than that.
your 100 years means nothing as there are those who have followed Quran since that day, they are few granted, but because you claim to have more knowledge and experience, your knowledge and experience comes from following the wrong direction for 1400 years, same as the Christians have. there are Christians who have never believed Jesus to be God of son of God ever and Mary not the Mother of God either - how can God have a mother? so there are Muslims who continue to follow Quran and always have done.
yes the Holy Grail is Quran that seems to be only a chosen few can see that 'folow the prophet' does not mean go off in another direction to find what to follow OF him.
this is not a sect, you are the sect follower, this is Islam, these are muslims following what God gave in Quran, how can you say WE are a sect but deny you are? ;D -
The only questions you guys need to answer is how can we be wrong for over 1300 years (and I'm using your own timeframes here) and you guys be right over 100 years when we both have access to the same information? We have far more experience and knowledge than you guys. 1300 v 100.
How can you be wrong? What are you, Supermen? What a pathetic answer you need to resort to. So because you have 1300 years of experience you can't be wrong? THIS is your answer?!
FYI, Quranism isnt a 100 years old. It has deep roots in Islamic history. Not that it matters, what matters is NOW and NOW you STILL can't tell us how many ayat have been ABROGATED.
Have you guys come up with a 'Holy Grail' which only the chosen few can see or something?
Holy Grail is something you need to search to the ends of the earth to find. We just need to open THE QURAN. The book even YOU GUYS say is the first source of sharia law.
-
As opposed to Sunni scholarship who say Quran is the first source of sharia yet can't decide
- which sura or ayah are makkan or medinan
- which ayah are abrogated
- which ayah were eaten by goats, horses, or any other agricultural animal
- which hadith are sahih
- why some hadith blatantly contradict the quran.
You guys should rename yourselves 'quran comes last if at all minds'
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-??. . . . . . . . . .
~., . . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .?-., . . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?, . . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\, . . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,} . . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,`^`.} . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,?. . . ./ . . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `. . . ./ . . . . . . . /__.(. . .?~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,`. . . .. ./ . . . . . . /(_. . ?~,_. . . ..?~,_. . . . . . . . . .,`. . . . _/ . . . .. .{.._$;_. . .?=,_. . . .?-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~?; /. .. .} . . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .?=-._. . .?;,,./`. . /? . . . ./. .. ../ . . . .. . .\`~,. . ..?~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../ . . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-? . . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\ . . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__ ,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-, . .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\ . . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .,-%. . . ..`I have a question. Do I go to goats and ask them for medical advice? So why ask questions tow those who have no ability to answer?