Jilbab [Quran 33:59]

[diamantinehoneybunch]

The insane retard Ahmad Mahmoud Abdullah has no shame and wants to rot in hell.
If I had supernatural talent like Carrie, I would levitate all the insane clergymen and throw them. LOL.

Well I am also sick with the enforcement of the prison-like clothes on women. Women are humans too, not sexual indecent objects that need to be cover in a prison-like cloaks in order to be more honorable.

[huruf]

The joke is the whole circle of the question. Women should cover, according to this assinine conception, because males are turned on when they see them. The holders of that view, usually also hold that men are less emotional and carried away by feelings or impressions than women are, and therefore they are in command, but then how is it that women can see men and not feel in danger of doing wrong and males can't?

If somebody is not able to behave properly on seeing somebody else, should not be the person prone to do wrong on a mere visual image be kept inside or under control rather than the persons who can control themselves. That is, women, according to this view, can control themselves perfectly no matter how males or other women dress. Shouldn't then be the men the ones to have their freedom curtailed since they are unable to behave properly in society?

And how can power in society be handed to people who are unable to control themselves? Shouldn't those be treated as under age people and properly guarded?

What a cheap and irrational trick to keep women punished and held guilty until proven innocent, which would be never, because their mere existence seems to be a threat to this kind of twisted males.

Salaam

[mamnoeoea_qatief_alazhaar]

As salaamu aleykum

Many muslim woman have free choice to wear what they want but choose for the niqab to wear and even go outside to demonstrate when a country want to ban the face covering..this is a free choice that this woman make and even they can choose something else,they don't are opressed by others,not by man,not by anyone.
They choose by self this covering.

The world is became a place of struglle because the long time opressing of woman by men..still these times the woman who think she is free is opressed by living a life of defending and longing to become equal to a man..but how much choises a woman can make,it is by her nature,by how God creates her..how much we wish do to the same thing as men,how more we become hard and though,how more they will not accept the shyness inside and also their softeness,how more they will become sad and by defending theirself in a hard way and not accept their softeness,they will loose everything where a woman feels happy with ;their softeness from hart and from brain..

Softeness is not the same as weakness..these are two different things that woman have to learn..while tehy make themself more strong to survive in ths life,they pay a big price for this behaviour..they will never get the statisfaction and inner peace that God wants for his creatures.

when a woman will start to accept her softness then she wil understand why others want to cover themselves..without this experience,they will always think that covering of the woman is an opressing act.

It is easy to have "free" thoughts,a free mind and to have an opinion..but trust me,without experience,without age..there is not such thing as the truth is mine for always and forever..this world is not for us alone..within 1000 years our ideas are maybe opressing for the people who will live then..that is why there is a message from Allah that came to us for for a reason..

First try to understand why someone want to cover herself and defending her covering treu demonstrations and why they find that people are opressing them when they have to take out there face veil..

Because I see a lot of people who want to be wise and intelligent and who want to spread a message of freedom whit a free mind but what if that "freedom" opresses others (burqa-ban/niqab ban)how lovely they opressng others with their other view.

Trust me the truth what people are finding will never be a truth that opress others..in the quran is written that we can choose to be muslim (there is no pressure) and to follow the rules of God but we can't opress others who don't want to follow the rules..but in the system outside Gods' rules people are opressing the woman who want to wear the niqab/burqa..

Who is then the opresser??
People who want to wear in piece what they want or people who want to put laws on the woman and to tell them what to wear..

Let people deside by self what to wear..this would be real freedom

[unknownuser]

It's not an obligatory to wear it and it's not haram to wear it.

Peace

[huruf]

As salaamu aleykum

Many muslim woman have free choice to wear what they want but choose for the niqab to wear and even go outside to demonstrate when a country want to ban the face covering..this is a free choice that this woman make and even they can choose something else,they don't are opressed by others,not by man,not by anyone.
They choose by self this covering.

The world is became a place of struglle because the long time opressing of woman by men..still these times the woman who think she is free is opressed by living a life of defending and longing to become equal to a man..but how much choises a woman can make,it is by her nature,by how God creates her..how much we wish do to the same thing as men,how more we become hard and though,how more they will not accept the shyness inside and also their softeness,how more they will become sad and by defending theirself in a hard way and not accept their softeness,they will loose everything where a woman feels happy with ;their softeness from hart and from brain..

Softeness is not the same as weakness..these are two different things that woman have to learn..while tehy make themself more strong to survive in ths life,they pay a big price for this behaviour..they will never get the statisfaction and inner peace that God wants for his creatures.

when a woman will start to accept her softness then she wil understand why others want to cover themselves..without this experience,they will always think that covering of the woman is an opressing act.

It is easy to have "free" thoughts,a free mind and to have an opinion..but trust me,without experience,without age..there is not such thing as the truth is mine for always and forever..this world is not for us alone..within 1000 years our ideas are maybe opressing for the people who will live then..that is why there is a message from Allah that came to us for for a reason..

First try to understand why someone want to cover herself and defending her covering treu demonstrations and why they find that people are opressing them when they have to take out there face veil..

Because I see a lot of people who want to be wise and intelligent and who want to spread a message of freedom whit a free mind but what if that "freedom" opresses others (burqa-ban/niqab ban)how lovely they opressng others with their other view.

Trust me the truth what people are finding will never be a truth that opress others..in the quran is written that we can choose to be muslim (there is no pressure) and to follow the rules of God but we can't opress others who don't want to follow the rules..but in the system outside Gods' rules people are opressing the woman who want to wear the niqab/burqa..

Who is then the opresser??
People who want to wear in piece what they want or people who want to put laws on the woman and to tell them what to wear..

Let people deside by self what to wear..this would be real freedom

?

This is ridiculous. ?Who wants to be like men? No. No way. What women conscious of their own dignity want is not to be like men, but that their sex is not used to punish them for it, for being women. Women conscious of their dignity want to have all the privileges available to humans and that some males want to keep exclusively for themselves and impose things on women and curtail their FREEDOM. Not women want to be like men, no. It is some males that want to own women, make them subservient to their whims.

If they want to curtail somebody's freedom, let them curtail their own freedom, be they women or men, but keep off from curtailing sombody else's freedom. It is godgiven, it is not something stolen. Men are not intermediaries between God and women. Women are directly connected to God, and God orders us all to reverence the arHam, no need for anybody to assume the role of captain of their lives. If a woman wants to dress or undress let her do it to herself, but not intrude in the conscience of others who are well capable of deciding for themselves without any brainwasher.

Salaam

[JavaLatte]

One of my neighbors covered her face with purdah/veil. But to my knowledge, she used to take off her face cover among Muslim women. I think she is a friendly person, we can't judge women from their niqab. ;D

If women cover their faces because of their own desire, well what can we do? Perhaps we could say it's their right.

Yet, I think most women who cover face and entire body is because they think Allah and Prophet Muhammad love something like that.

I actually hope that women don't wear the face veil, because clothes which cover almost the entire body (such as a black burqa) can also be worn by men to disguise as women while committing crime.

Women have right to wear the burqa (if they want), but I also questioned, can we as members of society also have right to know whether the people we see on the street wearing burqa or veil is really female/woman?

What if among them are men in disguise? o

Peace.

[mamnoeoea_qatief_alazhaar]

As salaamu aleykum

I understand your

inquietude

about people who can commit crime to wear a full burqa/face veil but many crimes are comitted without any face veil or burqa.

When someone want to commit a crime he will do and also when he or she want to be prepaired to not be recognised he or she will do so by simply wearing a mask or making ones face with make up that he or she will not be recognised..with one hour make up professionels can turn a joung looking peolple into an old unregcinisable someone..
Yet most violent acts are commitet by people who are recognised and who didn't were any burqa/niqab/mask/coverings

Hide oneself can be done by to blame the army or to put people in it (political crimes),when the most people are sleeping (nightcrimes) etcetera..I don't think that the security and the offendings by not seeing the face are less in common than the country's where the veil is not common.

It is not the fact that they want to protect te people or the security or to give "freedom" to opressed woman but it is all about power and politics that there is a ban on face veils and burqa's..politics by criminals who want to put staregies on the people with less political and economical knowledge so they can easily belief the tricks they are playing..

Banning burqa and niqab have nothing to do with banning criminality but just simple with let people belief lies altough there are exceptions(forcings to wear niqab/burqa by criminal groups) and to use this ideas of exeption to build and let support their criminal intention

It is the power and misuse of human and thoughts by the rulers that destroy the friendship between country's

Money power and oil...this are the keywords of burqa criminality (to blame the burqa/face veil) inter alia.

[mamnoeoea_qatief_alazhaar]

Peace all,

3359 is in reference to the "prophets wives" and what years, time is the ayat referring to? today? no,
of course not, the ayat is referring to the women believers and wives during the life of Muhammad. It is ridiculous
to conclude that the clothes that the wives of the prophet wore to ward off offenders are to be worn by believing
Muslims today who are under no threat. Obviously women were being accosted during those times much like
todays Egypt where the clothes and being Muslim have not saved the victims from sexual assault. Apparently
during the rise of Muhammad's followers to power, the identifying dress code was a warning to their enemies
not to assault the believing women under the threat of retaliation.

"On Wednesday night, when Egypt's army chief announced the forced departure of Mohamed Morsi, the streets
around Tahrir Square turned into an all-night carnival. But not everyone there was allowed to celebrate. Among
the masses dancing, singing and honking horns, more than 80 women were subjected to mob sexual assaults,
harassment or rape. In Tahrir Square since Sunday, when protests against Morsi first began, there have been
at least 169 counts of sexual mob crime."

"Egypt is full of sexual harassment and people have become desensitised to it ? but this is a step up,"
said Soraya Bahgat, a women's rights advocate and co-founder of Tahrir Bodyguard, a group that rescues
women from assault. "We're talking about mob sexual assaults, from stripping women naked and dragging
them on the floor ? to rape."

Insane leader

Egyptian Salafist preacher Ahmad Mahmoud Abdullah said that women protesting in Tahrir Square 'have no
shame and want to be raped.'

by Nina Burleigh

God bless

peace

As salaamu aleykum

Can I pay your attention on a little mistake the ayah (3359) is not ment only for the wives of prophet Mohammed sallalahu aleyhi wa salaam ..if you read well there is written also..and the woman of the believers !!!!

Thanks

[JavaLatte]

Salaam sister mamnoeoea.

Face veil or burqa can be practical alternative to disguise, it can be used by high-level criminals like terrorists to escape or to bring bomb inside burqa to kill many people.

I wonder whether women will still wear burqas if they were not under the influence of their religious preachers. hmm

Btw, sister mamnoeoea, do you wear burqa/face veil/purdah too?

If you don't wear it, why you don't wear it?

And if you wear it, why you wear it?

Would you kindly explain your reasons. )

I suppose you are female, but if that is wrong, please ignore my questions, brother. peace

And forgive me if my questions sound rude. I'm not native English speaker, so perhaps sometimes I may not using the appropriate words.

I just have high level curiosity for certain things.

Salaam. handshake

[unknownuser]

What if among them are men in disguise? o

Like in this video http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PWldV-gG3c

Peace

[hawk99]

As salaamu aleykum

Can I pay your attention on a little mistake the ayah (3359) is not ment only for the wives of prophet Mohammed sallalahu aleyhi wa salaam ..if you read well there is written also..and the woman of the believers !!!!

Thanks

Peace mamnoeoea qatief alazhaar,

Please re-read my post

Peace all,

3359 is in reference to the "prophets wives" and what years, time is the ayat referring to? today? no,
of course not, the ayat is referring to the women believers and wives during the life of Muhammad.
It is ridiculous to conclude that the clothes that the wives of the prophet wore to ward off offenders
are to be worn by believing Muslims today who are under no threat. Obviously women were being accosted
during those times much like todays Egypt where the clothes and being Muslim have not saved the victims from
sexual assault. Apparently during the rise of Muhammad's followers to power, the identifying dress code was a
warning to their enemies not to assault the believing women under the threat of retaliation.

"On Wednesday night, when Egypt's army chief announced the forced departure of Mohamed Morsi, the streets
around Tahrir Square turned into an all-night carnival. But not everyone there was allowed to celebrate. Among
the masses dancing, singing and honking horns, more than 80 women were subjected to mob sexual assaults,
harassment or rape. In Tahrir Square since Sunday, when protests against Morsi first began, there have been
at least 169 counts of sexual mob crime."

"Egypt is full of sexual harassment and people have become desensitised to it but this is a step up,"
said Soraya Bahgat, a women's rights advocate and co-founder of Tahrir Bodyguard, a group that rescues
women from assault. "We're talking about mob sexual assaults, from stripping women naked and dragging
them on the floor to rape."

Insane leader

Egyptian Salafist preacher Ahmad Mahmoud Abdullah said that women protesting in Tahrir Square 'have no
shame and want to be raped.'

by Nina Burleigh

God bless

peace

God bless

peace

[mamnoeoea_qatief_alazhaar]

Salaam sister mamnoeoea.

Face veil or burqa can be practical alternative to disguise, it can be used by high-level criminals like terrorists to escape or to bring bomb inside burqa to kill many people.

I wonder whether women will still wear burqas if they were not under the influence of their religious preachers. hmm

Btw, sister mamnoeoea, do you wear burqa/face veil/purdah too?

If you don't wear it, why you don't wear it?

And if you wear it, why you wear it?

Would you kindly explain your reasons.

I suppose you are female, but if that is wrong, please ignore my questions, brother. peace

And forgive me if my questions sound rude. I'm not native English speaker, so perhaps sometimes I may not using the appropriate words.

I just have high level curiosity for certain things.

Salaam. handshake

As salaamu aleykum sister

A bomb can hide under a wide coat also it don't need a a face veil for it..many suicide attackers didn't were burqa or face-veil..a large coat is enough to hide something.

Sister I am a woman who likes to wear the faceveil but don't want that I will trown in prison for to wear one..

I heard the first time about face-veiling because of my religion and when I veil myself I can be soft without to proove me in how I look..I don't have to hide my natural shyness in front of men but just can be shy..I don't have to proove I look beautiful but can be also one day ugly myself..I feel free with it because I can be myself..from the moment I take it of and I find myself in front of other men then I have to survive and become strong (defencive,not myself but the one with "guts" or the pretty one,or the sexy one,or anyone )

With a soft hart,a real soft hart it is not possible for any woman to be not shy in front of men but in this time shyness is called weakness and weakness as a child as prudish..prudish is in the west a blame,a weakness,for to laugh at and something that have to be overcome..but in islam and with my veil I feel that this natural shyness being respected because it is part of me as a woman..
Many woman see braveness as the solution,as a worthy quality and see their shyness in front of woman as no selfconfidence,weakness etcetera..

But from the purdah I believe now that only in purdah we can have a realy soft hart..purdah and the other rules from God allows the woman to be free,to not have to sale their looks for a minimum price..the abuse of their natural human female qualities like shyness,softness,lovelyness,cuteness..

A woman become harsh when she looses her natural feeling to purdah,to hide from men..

Let me well say that not only purdah is nescesarry but also the other rules ..because purdah without understand about their natural shyness and without to follow the other rules to make mild the heart,will not have effect on someone's freedom under the purdah

[hafeez_kazi]

Peace javaLatte

If you don't wear it, why you don't wear it?

And if you wear it, why you wear it?

Would you kindly explain your reasons.

It is a million dollar question. No one knows why they wear Burqa / veil except that they are told by their Mullahs and their ignorant scholars to do such things.

Surely the worst of beasts in God's sight are those that are deaf and dumb and do not UNDERSTAND 8;22

They do not understand that there is no such command for the women to cover their whole body including the face by an outer garment, but they only follow what their Mullah is saying or the ignorant scholars who do not understand the mysteries of the Quran.

The wearing of the burqa / veil is a manifestation of following the likes of Bukhari, the idiot Mullahs and the nonsensical scholars who are themselves misguided and are also misguiding others.

2196, 2238, 4101/102, 3356, 3359 and some other verses are time bound and circumstantial revelation. All these verses have no influence on the believers as of today because the verses were revealed to the people of the prophet who were present with the the Prophet. The verses revealed were a solution to crisis which the believers faced. Today there exist no hostile situation, no fear of the enemy, therefore all those verses which are related to fear and hostility cease to be effective today.

2196 was revealed to guide the believers in a situation where the believers WERE restrained / prevented from completing the HAJJ. BUT TODAY THERE IS NO SUCH PREVENTION therefore the whole verse stands cancelled as of today.

2238. 4101/102 were revealed in the context of fear. IF THERE IS NO FEAR

[noshirk]

Salaam

3356 God and His angels make contact with the prophet. O you who believe, you shall make contact with him, and comply completely.
3357 Surely those who harm God and His messenger, God will curse them in this world and in the Hereafter; and He has prepared for them a shameful retribution.
3358 And those who harm the believing males and the believing females, with no just reason, they have brought upon themselves a slander and a gross sin.
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that yudneena AAalayhinna min jalabeebihinna. That is better so that they will not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
3360 If the hypocrites and those with disease in their hearts and those who spread lies in the city do not refrain, then We will let you overpower them, then they will not be able to remain as your neighbors except for a short while.

When a verse is not understood, it is better to let phonetic transcription.
First of All, we see that the objectif of the not understood expression is to avoid women to be harmed, like God and his messenger are harmed (3357), and like "believers" are harmed (33-5
33-60 indicates more clearly that protection given by the ununderstood expression is against liers, hypocrytes, and people with disease in their hearts.
The big probleme we have is that if hypocrytes and liers target believers, special clothes will simplify identifying believers and then harming them.
The only way, in fact, to protect believers (women) is to avoid contact with hypocrytes,liers, and those with disease.

the second remark we can do is that there is no reason to do what it is said in the not understood expression if people identified in 3-60 refrain from doing what they were doing or are no more "neighbors". In fact, in a "civilised" country, there is absolutely no more reason to do what is meant by the not understood expression. De facto, there is no "yudneena AAalayhinna min jalabeebihinna" is a muslim country.

The third remark is that yudni has no relation with lengthening. Yudni means make nearer. In fact, if we obstinate about lenght, yudni means more shortening than lenghtening.
But event shortening clothes didn't ameliorate understanding.

The fact is that there is absolutely no reason to consider that 33-59 is speaking about clothes.
What other meaning can this verse have then ?

We are told that Jilbab is a kind of clothes. We believe that because "scholars" says so. But we know that scholars quite always lies and that they understand quite nothing from words of God.

However, root of word Jalabib is jalaba who means moving something from one place to another.
Jalouba is even used for whatever is moved from place to another for selling.
We have then another meaning that appears buy and sell with "near people" and avoid contact with liers and hypocrites.
if we turn back to word dani, it can even be used to designate a cousin (a near by family).

Considering back the context of verse, the "make business only with people who are near from you and believers" fit perfectly with the idea of avoiding contact with people of 360 and have contact only with people who knows you.

and Allah knows best ???

Peace

[hafeez_kazi]

Peace javaLatte

Sorry for the double posting

If you don't wear it, why you don't wear it?

And if you wear it, why you wear it?

Would you kindly explain your reasons. )

It is a million dollar question. No one knows why they wear Burqa / veil except that they are told by their Mullahs and their ignorant scholars to do such things.

Surely the worst of beasts in God's sight are those that are deaf and dumb and do not UNDERSTAND 8;22

They do not understand that there is no such command for the women to cover their whole body including the face by an outer garment, but they only follow what their Mullah is saying or the ignorant scholars who do not understand the mysteries of the Quran.

The wearing of the burqa / veil is a manifestation of following the likes of Bukhari, the idiot Mullahs and the nonsensical scholars who are themselves misguided and are also misguiding others.

2196, 2238, 4101/102, 3356, 3359 and some other verses are time bound and circumstantial revelation. All these verses have no influence on the believers as of today because the verses were revealed to the people of the prophet who were present with the the Prophet. The verses revealed were a solution to crisis which the believers faced. Today there exist no hostile situation, no fear of the enemy, therefore all those verses which are related to fear and hostility cease to be effective today.

2196 was revealed to guide the believers in a situation where the believers WERE restrained / prevented from completing the HAJJ. BUT TODAY THERE IS NO SUCH PREVENTION therefore the whole verse stands cancelled as of today.

2238. 4101/102 were revealed in the context of FEAR. IF THERE IS NO FEAR no validity of the verse.

4101/102 never happened but instructions to the followers of the Prophet and to the Prophet in a situation when there is a fear of the enemy while marching forth in land for fighting. The verse has nothing to do with the RITUAL PRAYERS but this is what the Mullah told us

3356 stands invalid today because it was decreed for the believers who were present during the era of the prophet. the prophet is no more and we were not the people to whom it was decreed so we are not bound by the verse.

Similarly 3359 is not a decree on the believing women of today but for the women of the past who were with the prophet.

Indeed, those who MALIGN Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment 3357

And those who MALIGN believing men and believing women for other than what they have earned have certainly born upon themselves a slander and manifest sin 3358

There was constant MALIGNING of Allah, the Messenger and the believers by the HYPOCRITES but Allah always gives them time to amend their conduct and the time had not arrived.

O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful 3359

Now this was the solution to escape from the MALIGNING of the HYPOCRITES and was not a command to the believing women. It was decreed when the situation was worse for the believers.

If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little 3360

If the HYPOCRITES continue with their evil deeds then war was the only option with the HYPOCRITES

the established way of Allah with those who passed on before; and you will not find in the way of Allah any change 33;61

That was the SUNNAH of Allah and it does not change.

Do you find Allah commanding the believing women to wear Burqa / veil when they leave their homes. THE PURPOSE OF WEARING OF THE OUTER GARMENT WAS TO MAKE KNOWN TO THE HYPOCRITES THAT THEY ARE BELIEVING WOMEN AND ARE PROTECTED BY THE BELIEVERS AND THEREFORE THEY SHOULD MALIGN THEM NOT. And if they continue then they will face war.

Thanks

[Wakas]

peace bro hk, all,

2196, 2238, 4101/102, 3356, 3359 and some other verses are time bound and circumstantial revelation. All these verses have no influence on the believers as of today because the verses were revealed to the people of the prophet who were present with the the Prophet. The verses revealed were a solution to crisis which the believers faced. Today there exist no hostile situation, no fear of the enemy, therefore all those verses which are related to fear and hostility cease to be effective today.

"time bound" is different to "circumstantial revelation".

Also, specific addressee is different to general addressee.

A careful study will allow us to determine the relevance.

[diamantinehoneybunch]

Dear Ms Purdah,

What can you say about some places where women are PUNISHED for NOT covering their faces or head huh?

Hide from men?
What kind of stupidity is this?

Women are humans. Men are humans. Both MUST honor themselves, have self-respect and respect each other.

To be soft is to be covered in sacks? See how brainswashed you are.

First of all, women are humans. Men are humans. I never say women can be exactly like men such as exposing chest. But covering the whole body is like equating women to indescent and shameful objects that must be covered to be honorable.

It is of course ridiculous to say to be 'soft' is to cover everything.

Some idiots say women who don't want to cover and want justice and equality just want to be men. What the ****? Those women never say they want to marry women, have male sexual organs, have beards, cut off their bosoms, wear male clothing. They just want justice, equality and same respects. Those people who say these wise women 'want to be men' are idiots.

I am sorry for calling you Ms Purdah coz it is difficult to spell your name.

Why must women hide themselves from men? Women are humans, madam! There are also shy men out there. Do you mean being soft as being polite? How should a man be polite? They do not have to cover themselves to be polite but when it comes to women, women must imprison themselves in black blanket to look polite and show their softness?

4913 O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honorable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.

971 And the believing males and the believing females, they are allies to one another............

If you look at these verses, there are no such things as women must hide themselves from men or women must imprison themselves in prison-like clothes to 'honor' themselves or to show their 'softness'.

According to devoutly religious Sunni scholars, women are (awrat). Awrat means indescent, nakedness, shames, genitalia so women must cover themselves like the ghostman in movie Scream to 'honor' themselves. Sunnism is terrible.

If you are saying that women must cover and hide themselves but men can go out freely and expose their normally to appear body parts? hands, feet, elbows, necks, faces, heads, hair, ears,? these mean that you are saying that women are lower and less honorable than men in nature. Ughhh.

I remember reading a Bible verse, according to that verse, it says something like this "I thought she was a prostitute because she covers her face". I didn't remember which verse and chapter it is in.

So far, I have never seen any verses in Qur'an commanding women to hide themselves in prison-like cloaks

Verse 2431 simply says women to lower their gaze, cover their private parts, put coverings over bosoms (paraphrased cover bosoms with coverings) and cover their beauty except that are NORMALLY TO APPEAR; that they may not show their beauty except to some group of people, the people that are listed as exceptions include both some group of WOMEN and MEN, and children that DO NOT UNDERSTOOD THE AWRAT (which means shames, nakedness, indecency) of women. The phrase "their women" also means that even some group of women are excluded from the exception list. The verse never says women who are in the exception lists are Muslim women. It just says "their women" so this verse has nothing to do with niqab / burqa / purdah and veils.

Why I capitalize the "do not understand awrat of women" is, women should not wear clothes that make people think of their nakedness when in public. When women wear tight and revealing (such as mini skirts, shorts, spaghetti string) clothes in public, it will caught naughty eyes. So the phrase "children who have not understood yet the awrat of women" shows that the beauty that must not be revealed is some body parts that some people will think of nakedness of women when they see. Children are in the exception list because children do not understand awrat of women even if women wear shorts and tight t-shirts in front of them.
Showing hair and face do not make some people think of nakedness of some people.

Yes, women must cover more than men because women have more attractions that are indecent to reveal even to women. It is clear when women are commanded to cover their breasts but men are not. And women must cover a little more than men must, because women have curvey body, right? It is not decent for women to show their tighs, belly, cleavages and wear tight clothes that reveal the body shapes of women. However, it doesn't mean women must wrap their whole bodies with blankets.
But women are allowed to rest their dress code in front of some group of people.

Verse 2460 simply means women who have passed child-bearing are allowed to put off their garments. Old women no longer have attractions so they are allowed to wear shorts and singlets. People would not fantasize their nakedness while they are looking at old women who wear overly simple clothes.

Jilbab doesn't only have one meaning which means women's garment that covers the whole body. It can also mean wide garment for a woman. In verse 3359, the verb that comes from the root -- or -- which means put lower, lengthen is used and the full word of the root in the verse is / yudneena, which is 3rd person imperfect plural verb. If the jilbab that is used in 3359 means burqa, purdah etc, then how can it will be lowered or lengthened since the type of cloth is already loose, long and baggy? This verse also has nothing to do with burqa because of the word yudneena, and the other meaning of jilbab.

Some put the obligation for women only because their excuses are men will stare at women, men will rape women, women are so attractive that men will be aroused when stare at non-burqa-wearing women and non-hijabi women. Oh what the hell? In verse 2430, men must lower their gaze too! If verse 2431 is commanding women to imprison themselves in prison-like clothes, then there would be little to no use for men to lower their gaze.
Men should not also harm or harass women.

I am sorry if I seem to fail to convey what I want to say.

Regards,
Yuliana

[diamantinehoneybunch]

I am sick of burqa lovers keep saying that those who are not fond of burqa or veils are just supporting women selling their bodies. Why is this stereotype?

Imagine Women Employees / Workers.

http//www.asianews.it/files/img/AFGHANISTAN_(it)0416-_Burqa_in_crisi.jpg
Women who dress like this as workers in workplaces are and look so unprofessional.

http//www.5pillarz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/burka-500x373.jpg
They look a tiny bit better than the above picture because they at least show their eyes. But it is still unprofessional for workers to wear it in workplaces.

http//scanfree.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/tumblr_m40f2diJ6W1r0cc7uo1_1280.jpg
This woman dresses modestly. Even if she does not cover her head, she'd still look modest. Head and hair have nothing to do with immodesty. She looks professional

http//www.thelifeofluxury.com/images/woman_suit.jpg
This woman looks professional and respected. Hijab has nothing to do with modesty. Look as professional as the above picture. Anyways I am not sure whether the skirt that she wears reaches almost her ankles or not but let say or just assume that it reaches.

http//www.dwgriffithforever.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/womens-work-clothes.jpg
The woman at the left is not so modest but still looks much more professional than the burqa / purdah wearers. The middle and the right look professional.

http//allfinds.org/pict/women/2/173.jpg
This is not modest. This seems like the woman wants to make a exhibition of her ***. Respected women, don't wear this!

http//www.eurweb.com/2011/03/ask-tamara-too-sexy-for-the-workplace/
Well I don't want to show the image on this site. If employers out there who have female workers wearing like this, FIRE HER!

[unknownuser]

FIRST, IT"S DAMN MY POST WAS ERASED, SO I MUST REPEAT AGAIN brickwall brickwall

I want to repeat again for my long post , NO WAYY brickwall brickwall..

Sorry I'm little bit emotion

[huruf]

Why such an obsession with the modesty of women. The morals of societies are not bankrupt because of them, but because of the free way that unmodest males have obtained for themselves.

It is men who pay prostitutes or force women, not women who force males or pay prostitutes to have fun. It is men to twist everything so as to make it possible for them to gain sex any time without entailments. They have shown under any conditions that they do not need any enticement to be licencious, rather they pester women and think up any trick to have them against their will or by seduction with empty words. They are the ones who make sex a past time, which should only be allowed free to them. How many times has been discussed in these forums the poligamy and concubinage issue and how many times we have seen that it is considered by many as something that men should be able to avail themselves of.

Things being so, why on earth, why, but why the only talk bout modesty is about women, not about the real killers of modesty and self respect which are licentious males? And i will not go into the leering of some of those beasts at the sight of any woman if they feel no stranger is watching.

What a joke is this hypocritical talk of some muslims about modesty! Modesty my foot! It is all about constricting women. If it was about modesty they would be too busy calling males to attention of the many sins they have on them. I am sick to death of all the talk about virtue equating it with women dress. From wherever that may come, it is surely not from Qur'an.

What is the complain about women. Earth's population everybody agrees that it is enormous and even threaten that the earth cannot hold more people, but women keep being blamed for not furfilling their duties with the family. Men continue to be the rapers and the payers of vice everywhere, but it is women who get the perennial sermon on modesty, thausands of pages after thousands of pages without end and then starting all over?

Are we nuts or what? If a sex is failing it is not certainly women. They have more than fulfilled their duties under any circumstances, in most cases, unbearable circumstances. Please, some respect and some rahma. All will ask for rahme when they are in front of the only judge. Go then and blame women and talk about modesty, God is no fool.

Salaam

Salaam