The Night of Decree is the 27th day of the 9th moon: Incontrovertible proof

siki

Why not everyday? Moreover, the verses does not imply a single time that the quran was being revealed on that special night. How do we conclude that the quran was revealed on this particular night?

97-1 we sent it down in the night of destiny,

what is been sent from GOd? most probably Quran. let us confirm it.

2-185 shahar ur ramadhan , that we sent down quran,

If we co relate two ayays we can safely deduce,

Quran was sent down in a night , which was marked by shahar ur ramadhaan, ( FUll moon of scorching heat) , so the night which bagan with shhar ur ramadahn , is know as lalitul qadar, (night of destiny) why is He calling it as night of destiny or decree or Qadar? Because GOd is also telling us that He sends down his messengers/controllers with annul new plan regarding direction of our lives for next year begining with this night, which is marked with full moon of scorching heat, or the orange moon.

And He also decided to make us fast for few days after watching shahru ramadhan, so actually ,if we follow the system correctly, we would end up starting our first fast when lailatul qadar is fininshing.

TO understand above properly you have to first find out what is meant by shahr , and shahr ur ramadhan in GOd's system.

siki

WayFinder

97-1 we sent it down in the night of destiny,

what is been sent from GOd? most probably Quran. let us confirm it.

Agree its a probability but why is it the only option? It could be referring to the Orders which the controllers bring in this night. Not only to the Quran... since the Quran was already revealed since long. Moreover, the explanation given on this night is directly related to the stuff occurring on that night.. Therefore, the IT can be linked to the event of the "Order' as well.

2-185 shahar ur ramadhan , that we sent down quran,

Yes... that does not imply a single night . Could be the whole month little by little.

If we co relate two ayays we can safely deduce,

Quran was sent down in a night , which was marked by shahar ur ramadhaan, ( FUll moon of scorching heat) , so the night which bagan with shhar ur ramadahn , is know as lalitul qadar, (night of destiny) why is He calling it as night of destiny or decree or Qadar? Because GOd is also telling us that He sends down his messengers/controllers with annul new plan regarding direction of our lives for next year begining with this night, which is marked with full moon of scorching heat, or the orange moon.

Personally, I have never been observe such a phenomena in my region... Though, I might have missed it.. but every time i check the moon here.. that is very often to say, it is always bright. I have read about the scorching heat etc... I would need to hunt for this moon here.

siki

Agree its a probability but why is it the only option? It could be referring to the Orders which the controllers bring in this night. Not only to the Quran... since the Quran was already revealed since long. Moreover, the explanation given on this night is directly related to the stuff occurring on that night.. Therefore, the IT can be linked to the event of the "Order' as well.

Yes... that does not imply a single night . Could be the whole month little by little.

Personally, I have never been observe such a phenomena in my region... Though, I might have missed it.. but every time i check the moon here.. that is very often to say, it is always bright. I have read about the scorching heat etc... I would need to hunt for this moon here.

Brother, first you have to spend a few weeks on the thread down below, for correctly comprehending "Shahar" , once you do , Inshaallah every thing will fall in place.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

This is one of the biggest breakthroughs that this forum has ever made, with brother Aymen in the lead.

Thanks

siki

WayFinder

Brother, first you have to spend a few weeks on the thread down below, for correctly comprehending "Shahar" , once you do , Inshaallah every thing will fall in place.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

This is one of the biggest breakthroughs that this forum has ever made, with brother Aymen in the lead.

Thanks

siki

Bear with me.. I have indeed read this a while back brother...

With or without the shahr... the fact remain that attibuting the HU to Quran alone is just an option and the other option is the 'Malaaikah bringing the orders' itself... The Surah does not speak at all regarding revelation of the Quran. So, why are we attributing the HU with Quran revelation... I think we have these options

Revelation of Quran
The event of descent of malaaikah with orders etc
The Rooh

Now, what are the clear proof for us to fix the HU to the Quran?

ayman

Peace Siki, WayFinder, all,

Here is an article in Arabic on this subject

http//www.scribd.com/doc/30298535/%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%AF%D8%B1

I think that the arguments are even more compelling in Arabic.

Peace,

Ayman

6619

Salaam Ayman and all,

Peace Pierre,

I read the article a while back and I read it again. There is nothing in there that answers my simple question.

How do you know the 9th moon?

I agree that the issue is very important. This is why it is important to separate what is manmade from what is god-given.

There is nothing inherent in the Hijri calendar month (not moon) named Ramadan that makes it the 9th whatever. In fact, there is nothing inherent in Shaaban that makes it month 8 and the same can be said about any Hijri month for that matter. Your assumption that it is the 9th something is a false assumption based on the 100% arbitrary and manmade order of the months in the Hijri calendar. Shaaban is in turn based on Rajab being 7 and Jumada Al-Thani being 6 and so on all the way back to when this calendar was first made up and which month it started with. Since the calendar started at the time of Umar, your present Ramadan is approximately month 17000 (give or take). Repeating the names of the months every 12 is all that the Hijri calendar does. Those names are anyway meaningless and 100% arbitrary and manmade.

Since what I am saying is pretty much indisputable, are you saying that the god descends the spirit on a certain night based on what Umar or some other guy decided for him?

Peace,

Ayman

Sura 97 teaches us that no only Quran was revealed on the Night of decree (971), it is also that day God sends the angels and the spirit to carry out every command (974).

971 is a one time event in the history of mankind Revelation of Quran.
974 is a recurring event once a year since there is life on earth, until the Day of Judgment.
These are two different things. In general terms, God says The Night of Decree is better than 1000 months It is the power associated with this yearly recurring event where God organises everything on earth.

God's system is based on 12 months
936 The count of months, as far as GOD is concerned, is twelve. This has been GOD's law, since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred. This is the perfect religion; you shall not wrong your souls (by fighting) during the Sacred Months. However, you may declare all-out war against the idol worshipers (even during the Sacred Months), when they declare all-out war against you, and know that GOD is on the side of the righteous.

As you can see in the verse, God does not detail the names of all months, because he knows we know.
I said in my previous post that it is an undisputable fact Quran was revealed during Ramadan. It is the only name of month mentioned by name in Quran. Why ? Because we know.
2183 teaches us that the fast of Ramadan has been in place long before Muhammad.

Quran mentions the word "month" 12 times. It is His system.

Ayman, you are really missing the point because you do not understand that God controls everything. You look for answers and dispute everything, when the number and names of months, even the Night of Decree has been passed down to us very well.
By revisiting everything all the time, you get lost.

Again, the lunar 12 months system has been in place "since the day He created the heavens and the earth" (936). God says it, we shall submit.
I hope for you and as many people as possible that you will realize today, as tomorrow in "the blessed night" of Decree (at least in America, I don't know where you are), that you are going to reap the benefits of that night, pray, meditate, that we will all do that and benefit from the awesome power associated with it.

I provided dramatic proofs that it is the 27th night of the 9th moon.

I know that thus far you claimed that the gematrical value is human made. It is not too late to realize the truth

There are 410 verses between 1778 (27th occurrence of the word "Night" since the beginning of Quran) and 2133 (9th occurrence of the word "Moon&quot.
This is an indisputable FACT.
There are 27 words "day" between 1778 and 2133.
This is an indisputable FACT.
410 is the gematrical value of the night of Decree.
27 is the number of days in the "9th moon", and the day of the night of Decree
I do not need to repeat or detail here the many amazing signs mentionned in the article about "the night of Decree (http//www.islamrevolution.org/thenightofdecree.htm).
These signs are far beyond what any force in the universe can achieve.

I will thus keep it very simple, either you take it, or you leave it.
Anyone who is not sincere, God gives it the opportunity to say "This is human made" (see 7425), or "the gematrical value system is nothing, 410 verses between 1778 and 2133 was just luck". In truth, God appeals to our sincerity and intelligence.
These are staigthforward signs, yes anyone can always argue.
Ayman I simply want to let you know, from the bottom of my heart, today is a turning point, you are given a once in a lifetime chance, and everyone on this forum who does not understand the Night of Decree as well If you reject the signs you will deeply regret it on the Day of Judgment.

There should be no ego involved here. I have crashed in my life. You have also crashed. Everyone has crashed., At one point we must say STOP or pay the consequences.

We will all be interrogated, and rejecting such signs is not free.

I wish to everyone a blessed end of Ramadan, a blessed Night od Decree where we are given a miraculous opportunity to praise and glorify God while He is sending his blessings on earth together with the angels and Gabriel, the spirit.

Glory to God.

Pierre

afridi220

Hum How many 27 nights are there in month of ramadan??

ayman

Peace Pierre,

As you can see in the verse, God does not detail the names of all months, because he knows we know.
I said in my previous post that it is an undisputable fact Quran was revealed during Ramadan. It is the only name of month mentioned by name in Quran. Why ? Because we know.
2183 teaches us that the fast of Ramadan has been in place long before Muhammad.

Your fuzzy statement "because we know" is the real basis of your entire house of cards. May I ask you HOW do you know?

You don't seem to know that your so called Ramadan is dependent upon Shaaban...Muharam and so on. Without those Hijri calendar months and their specific order and sequence and which month and year the calendar started from then there is no Ramadan for you. Are you saying that the god inspired Umar to make the Hijri calendar??

Also, you don't seem to know the simple indisputable fact that there was no such thing as the Hijri calendar before Muhammad.

How do you know anything if you don't even seem to know those simple indisputable facts.

Peace,

Ayman

asubmitter

The author of the book titled 3, available on Kindle and iBooks, also available to read on www.12-3.co.uk, a research into the concept of mind.body and soul, 3 wise monkeys and the 3 Semetic religions.
Producer of the 3 albums, Reflections,Retro and Wizard Music, available to listen on www.soundcloud.com/a-submitter. Electronic, spineless music, ambient and experimental, and quite childish.
The writer of 2 collection of poems, 'Growing in Logic' and 'Water is more precious than gold to people', available on Kindle and soon to be on iBooks. Also available on the official artist page, www.asubmitter.co.uk

To know things by their opposites, submitters are the opposite of warriors, whereas most agree there are ways in which to negotiate and to be peaceful there are others who choose war and selfishness, submitters to the will of God, trust in the Lord God, and know He is Most Gracious and Most Merciful, they practise patience, uphold the truth, and are not attached to the material world, instead they are keen to do right and to please God, they are blessed thankful rather than wicked regretful, if you study young children they seem to fight over everything, but submitters can let go, they realise everything is nothing. They submit to Lord of the universe, who sustains and protects. Muslim is a word which transcends other religions, in that submitters is a condition whereby you are convinced only God possesses power, and have faith in God and the prophecy of the Last Day, and believe in God and the miracles in the present moment, and devote to God and the truth of past. For more information I would recommend the book 3 available online and through Kindle and iBooks.

Peace
Kashif Hussain
A Submitter

6619

salaam Ayman,

Peace Pierre,

Your fuzzy statement "because we know" is the real basis of your entire house of cards. May I ask you HOW do you know?

You don't seem to know that your so called Ramadan is dependent upon Shaaban...Muharam and so on. Without those Hijri calendar months and their specific order and sequence and which month and year the calendar started from then there is no Ramadan for you. Are you saying that the god inspired Umar to make the Hijri calendar??

Also, you don't seem to know the simple indisputable fact that there was no such thing as the Hijri calendar before Muhammad.

How do you know anything if you don't even seem to know those simple indisputable facts.

Peace,

Ayman

God controls everything and you deny it.
God himself acknowldeges the month of Ramadan in Quran. Is Ramadan man made?
Are 12 months man made, when God himself proclaims it in Quran?

Believers before Muhammad fasted in the 9th month, wich God acknowledges as Ramadan.
Even the Bible acknowleges fasting the 9th month (Jeremiah 369).

Now you are provided with a divine system that proves the night of Decree in Quran as the 27th "Night" of the 9th "Moon", still you reject it, out of ego, even it is so logical and makes so much sense. A 10 year old would understand, and you too understand. But it would make you look bad in front of your crowd. and you would have to make a complete U turn on your approach of Islam.

You made your decision So be it.

Peace.

Pierre

WayFinder

Dear 6619,

I have asked this question above and I am asking it again... what makes you think the quran was revealed on that night? Nowhere in the verse does it say or imply it as such. I am not rejecting the idea but i just want to find the origin of this concept... whether it can be showed from quranic verses or not..

WayFinder

Brothers

I found the answer to my own question.. Indeed the Quran tell us that IT has been revealed on a blessed night in 443

'Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn '

There is no argument on this anymore, it is very clear from 442-4 that God is speaking about the Quran.

Therefore, now it fits for me that the IT in the laylatul qadr is eventually pointing to the Quran as well...

Praise God

siki

Brothers

I found the answer to my own question.. Indeed the Quran tell us that IT has been revealed on a blessed night in 443

'Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn '

There is no argument on this anymore, it is very clear from 442-4 that God is speaking about the Quran.

Therefore, now it fits for me that the IT in the laylatul qadr is eventually pointing to the Quran as well...

Praise God

Good job , finding out the missing link.

siki

6619

Salaam dear wayfinder,

Dear 6619,

I have asked this question above and I am asking it again... what makes you think the quran was revealed on that night? Nowhere in the verse does it say or imply it as such. I am not rejecting the idea but i just want to find the origin of this concept... whether it can be showed from quranic verses or not..

You did not read sura 97 and you did not read the article http//www.islamrevolution.org/thenightofdecree.htm

Peace.

ayman

Peace Pierre,

God controls everything and you deny it.

God also controls that people make up lies (see 6112). Should we all start believe in manmade lies such as Hadiths? There is no difference between the 100% manmade Hadiths and the 100% manmade calendar that you are asking us to believe is from the god. Do you really expect us to believe in your silent assumption that the god inspired Umar to invent the Hijri calendar? Is Umar another one of your new messengers now?

God himself acknowldeges the month of Ramadan in Quran. Is Ramadan man made?

Yes. It is an indisputable fact that your so-called Ramadan is 100% manmade because it is 100% based on manmade decisions. The Arabic word "ramadan" that the god selected to describe the timing actually means "scorching heat".

Are 12 months man made, when God himself proclaims it in Quran?

Yes. The Gregorian calendar also has 12 months. Are you saying that January is not manmade?

Believers before Muhammad fasted in the 9th month, wich God acknowledges as Ramadan.
Even the Bible acknowleges fasting the 9th month (Jeremiah 369).

This is 100% meaningless nonsense. There is no "9th month" without month 1 and it is 100% dependent on it. This is indisputable. What is your month 1? Did the god inspire your month 1?

You also keep ignoring the indisputable fact that there was no Hijri calendar prior to Umar. Surely, this is the sign of a weak mind.

Now you are provided with a divine system that proves the night of Decree in Quran as the 27th "Night" of the 9th "Moon", still you reject it, out of ego, even it is so logical and makes so much sense. A 10 year old would understand, and you too understand. But it would make you look bad in front of your crowd. and you would have to make a complete U turn on your approach of Islam.
You made your decision So be it.

Again, when cornered instead of answering to the indisputable facts that your Hijri calendar is 100% arbitrary and manmade and didn't even exist until the time of Umar you hide behind appeals to emotions and fuzzy feely rhetoric without any substance. Deep inside you are just as dogmatic as the biggest bearded Sunni.

Peace,

Ayman

Raaajah

Salaam,
Ayman

This is 100% meaningless nonsense. There is no "9th month" without month 1 and it is 100% dependent on it. This is indisputable. What is your month 1? Did the god inspire your month 1?

Please if you can answer following questions, it will be easier to understand.

Why there was need for Calendars?
What is the calendar inspired by God?
does it exist?
and which country/nation follows it?

Thanks

Mazhar

Brothers

I found the answer to my own question.. Indeed the Quran tell us that IT has been revealed on a blessed night in 443

'Indeed, We sent it down during a blessed night. Indeed, We were to warn '

There is no argument on this anymore, it is very clear from 442-4 that God is speaking about the Quran.

Therefore, now it fits for me that the IT in the laylatul qadr is eventually pointing to the Quran as well...

Praise God

Brother,

You correctly said this. And if you read the next Ayaat you will find the explanation of what is stated about Lailatul Qadr.

And even if you consider the verbal noun of the verb in 9701 it will indicate one time event, as apprintice has said in his post. And pronoun "hu" in the same verb has been used for Qur'aan at 12 places in the Grand Qur'aan.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/044.%20Ad%20Dukhan/44.03.gif
It is a fact that We had descended this Book/Grand Qur'aan during the Night which has been declared/made as of permanence and perpetuation thus blessed one.

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/044.%20Ad%20Dukhan/44.04.gif
During that Night each and every matter, which was hitherto a secreted and infolded matter/decision, is made distinctly exposed in isolated manner from each other ,

Surat 44

http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/097.%20Al%20Qadr/97.04.gif
during that night, by the Will/permission of Allah, Angels and Gib'raa'eil cause themselves to come down intermittently , with command/ decision/decree on each and every matter/affair;

Surat 97

unknownuser

Peace,

Why there was need for Calendars?

We need calendars to keep track of time, appointments, computers programs and websites running, etc.
Although time is an illusion of our consciousness -- try using that excuse next time you're late for work. lol

What is the calendar inspired by God?
does it exist?

8418
and the moon when it evened/full

891-4
and the dawn
and night ten
and the even and the odd
and the night hence departs

Perhaps 10th night/s refers to that of full moon with 30 and 29 even/odd cycles.

Need to precisely calculate cycles see if there is a repeatable pattern; example

http//i52.tinypic.com/op0i9g.jpg

http//i51.tinypic.com/9abqiq.jpg

http//i54.tinypic.com/28mmn3d.jpg

ayman

Peace Raaajah,

Please if you can answer following questions, it will be easier to understand.
Why there was need for Calendars?

Calendars are manmade tools for keeping track of natural cycles that are important for our lives. For example, useful calendars enable farmers to plan when to plant crops and when to harvest them.

What is the calendar inspired by God?
does it exist?
and which country/nation follows it?

There is no calendar inspired by the god. What the god has made are natural cosmic phenomena. For example, he instructs us about the "salat" (learning connection) at daybreak and after sunset. He doesn't tell us at 5AM and 730PM. While daybreak and sunset are god-given universal markers, 5AM and 730PM are manmade and not universal. They are not always true as daytime and night will be shorter and longer and require modern timekeeping instruments. They also depend on when hour 0 takes place and how many divisions are in a day. The choice of midnight as 0 and the 24 hours divisions is 100% arbitrary and manmade.

The same thing can be said about the Hijri and Gregorian calendars. The choice of month 1 (which all the other months depend on) and the order of the months is 100% arbitrary and manmade. Just as the god has told us about timing within the day using clear signs of sunset and daybreak and not 5AM and 730PM, which depend on arbitrary manmade decisions, he has also told us about the timing of events within the year using clear signs and not Hijri or Gregorian or any other manmade arbitrary calendar. The god has inspired us to use natural cosmic phenomena for timing and for correctly obeying him. This is discussed in details here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0

Also, if you know Arabic you can read the following article

http//www.scribd.com/doc/30298535/%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%AF%D8%B1

Peace,

Ayman

Raaajah

Aymen

Calendars are manmade tools for keeping track of natural cycles that are important for our lives. For example, useful calendars enable farmers to plan when to plant crops and when to harvest them.

Noon de plume

We need calendars to keep track of time, appointments, computers programs and websites running, etc.

Therefore what i get from these statements is that Calendar is a man made tool to help us.

Aymen

There is no difference between the 100% manmade Hadiths and the 100% manmade calendar that you are asking us to believe is from the god. Do you really expect us to believe in your silent assumption that the god inspired Umar to invent the Hijri calendar? Is Umar another one of your new messengers now?

But after reading the above I am still confused that
Weather inspired by God or not, why should we not take Hijri calendar to mark the month of "Scorching heat"? in absence of God made calendar
Aymen

There is no calendar inspired by the god.

I will study the answers to my questions one by one, and try to understand as this concept is some thing totally contrary to existing or in practice.

May be I can find the answer to my other questions in the thread mentioned.
Aymen

...he has also told us about the timing of events within the year using clear signs and not Hijri or Gregorian or any other manmade arbitrary calendar..

But I have found no aayt in Quran which says that we should not use man made tools which might help us, however may be in this thread I can find out, mentioned by you.

Noon D Plume, so you think that Allah has provided the hints to calendar in Quran, contrary to what Aymen believes that There is no calendar inspired by the god.