Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??

mubashir55

Dear All,

Any body read the above books in which Dr Qamaruzzaman rejects Salat and Hadith as being against the Qur'an. You can download English PDF Versions of all three books at www.aastana.com.

Once a few of us have read them, we can discuss them to see if they make any sense. Haqeeqat Saum rejects fasting as Un Qur'anic?!!!

Mubashir

Ayisha

Dear All,

Any body read the above books in which Dr Qamaruzzaman rejects Salat and Hadith as being against the Qur'an. You can download English PDF Versions of all three books at www.aastana.com.

Once a few of us have read them, we can discuss them to see if they make any sense. Haqeeqat Saum rejects fasting as Un Qur'anic?!!!

Mubashir

peace Downloaded both and have read introduction only on fasting. I like this guy already, thanks mubashir55. will let you know how i get on with the rest.

abdalquran

Salam Mubashir,

Many thanks for pointing this out to me. Akhtar Sherazi also wrote something to this effect
http//quraniceducationandresearch.com/

I think Dr Zaman is definitely a cut above the rest but I cannot agree how he limits muttaqee to simply a social dimension. To me, this is the limitation of GA Parwez. He fails to see Quran as a book talking to individuals. A muttaqee in context of 2/183 is a person who preserves himself by controlling indulgence, is how I see it.

I have more points to discuss but I'll leave it at this for now.

Also, I cant find the truth about hadith book?

siki

I appreciate this guy's wisdom regarding pinpointing contradictions between quranic commands and the practiced Month of Ramadhan. I also appreciate his out of the BOX thinking to find the truth. However his solution has all gone wrong.

I think he is not aware of Aymen's proposed solution regarding Ramadhan issue, had he been , he would have agreed with him. I will try sending him Aymen's article.

In my opinion Aymen has done a fantastic job on this issue and his approach is closer to truth, however new bees require a few years to fully grasp the issue and its solution.

siki

WayFinder

Thank you... I will check this out.

mubashir55

Salam Mubashir,

Many thanks for pointing this out to me. Akhtar Sherazi also wrote something to this effect
http//quraniceducationandresearch.com/

I think Dr Zaman is definitely a cut above the rest but I cannot agree how he limits muttaqee to simply a social dimension. To me, this is the limitation of GA Parwez. He fails to see Quran as a book talking to individuals. A muttaqee in context of 2/183 is a person who preserves himself by controlling indulgence, is how I see it.

I have more points to discuss but I'll leave it at this for now.

Also, I cant find the truth about hadith book?

Dear Brother, the idea is to examine and discuss. Since I do not know Arabic, and Dr Qamar relies heavily on Arabic language to arrive at meanings, it would be most interesting for those who do. Haqeeat hadith is available on that website in Urdu. Please click list of Books and download. It. In my view it is very informative.

Individual reform is important because individuals are members of a society. I think GA Perwez emphasied both. How could he not when the Qur'an does? I think what he meant was that Islam is not about personal salvation alone. It is a social system and one needs to get involved.

mubashir55

Dear Siki

Where can we find Aymen's article about Saum?

Dr Qamaruzzaman invites suggestions/corrections etc. so please ask/suggest your ideas at his blog at

http//www.aastana.com/blog/default.asp

Thanks.

siki

Dear Siki

Where can we find Aymen's article about Saum?

;D I think you found it.

adjwi

Dear All,

Any body read the above books in which Dr Qamaruzzaman rejects Salat and Hadith as being against the Qur'an. You can download English PDF Versions of all three books at www.aastana.com.

Once a few of us have read them, we can discuss them to see if they make any sense. Haqeeqat Saum rejects fasting as Un Qur'anic?!!!

Mubashir

Mubashir, everyone,

Rapidly went through this article and I must say this guy's mind is free of traditional understanding of fasting!

I appreciate this guy's wisdom regarding pinpointing contradictions between quranic commands and the practiced Month of Ramadhan. I also appreciate his out of the BOX thinking to find the truth. However his solution has all gone wrong.

I think he is not aware of Aymen's proposed solution regarding Ramadhan issue, had he been , he would have agreed with him. I will try sending him Aymen's article.

In my opinion Aymen has done a fantastic job on this issue and his approach is closer to truth, however new bees require a few years to fully grasp the issue and its solution.

siki

I can't see how Ayman's view on Ramadhan can be compatible with the proposed article. Ayman's view is traditional in the understanding of saum. It would be interesting however to learn of Ayman's appreciation of this outlook towards Ramadhan.

In any case, there is certainly food for thought in Aastana's direction further freeing the mind of traditional understandings.

adjwi

Bob

Dear all,we had a discussion about soum http//www.ourbeacon.com/cgi-bin/bbs60x/webbbs_config.pl/page/1/md/read/id/314123119156033

http//www.ourbeacon.com/cgi-bin/bbs60x/webbbs_config.pl/page/1/md/read/id/314123119156054

please have a look

Raaajah

Bob

My first teacher was Allama parwez, and had it not been for him I would not have developed the ability to tear myself loose from the mental bondage, we all learn from our homes.
Today I stand on the platform laid by my brilliant teacher, standing firm with strength of his encouragement. He has taught us that no ones work is final word or the final authority, continuous in the quest.

http//www.parvez-video.com/images/saum-parvez.jpg

Can you please explain further his understanding of Saum, and what makes you think he is wrong, if your understanding is different from his, this will be helpful.

Bob

Allama Parwez understanding of Soum

183-184 Self-control is a prerequisite both for steadfastness and fortitude in the battlefield as well as for establishing a just and equitable socio-economic system. In other words, in case of a conflict between your physical drives and lofty human values, you should uphold the latter. Furthermore, you should habituate yourself to leading a hard and laborious life. For this purpose fasting has been made obligatory for you as it was for earlier communities, in order that you may live according to the Divine Laws and protect yourself from the pitfalls of life. Fasting is for a prescribed number of days (as fixation of time itself is an aid to disciplined life). If (during Ramadan) any of you is sick or on a journey (and misses some fasts) he must complete the prescribed number by fasting on other days. But if a person is neither sick nor on a journey yet cannot fast except with great hardship and, therefore, cannot make up missed fasts, he should provided food for a person in need in lieu thereof.

It is evident that the condition of the last named category of persons cannot be determined by Law. It is for you yourself to determine if you are unable to fast except with great hardship. If on assessing your own condition you conclude that the odds are even, then it is better for you to fast even if it is (relatively) hard for you, because the purpose which is served by fasting cannot be attained by providing food to another, provided you understand the rationale for fasting.

185 Here the question arises as to why the month of Ramadan was chosen for this collective (as well as individual) exercise in self-discipline. The answer is that Ramadan is the month during which the revelation of the Quran began which shows all humanity the clear path leading to its ultimate goal, revealing those permanent values whereby one can distinguish truth from falsehood. The discipline learned through fasting is an annual training to remain in a state of preparedness for the accomplishment of this lofty programme. Hence a person who is at home during this month should fast. If a person is sick or on a journey, he should, as already stated, complete the prescribed number of fasts by fasting on other days (and the concession allowed to a person who cannot fast except with great hardship has been mentioned earlier). Allah wants to make things easy for you and does not want to subject you to hardships and difficulties. Mark again that fasting is not a mere rite. Its purpose is to enable you to establish on the one hand supremacy of the Divine Laws in the world, in the light of the Guidance given to you (9/33) and on the other enable you to nourish your own potentialities.

186 In the context of the obligation to fast, do not think that by restricting the fulfilling of human needs to prescribed times and by abstaining from material indulgences, one is attaining closeness to Allah (as was believed to be the case amongst monastic cults). (O Rasool!) when My devotees ask you about Me, tell them that I am close to them at all times. (This means that) when anyone calls upon Me to lead him to the right path, My Guidance which is preserved in the Quran, answers his call. Therefore, tell them that the way to attain the nearness of Allah is to adhere to My Laws fully, believing implicitly in their validity (7/56, 8/24, 32/15-16, 40/60, 42/26). By following these Laws they will be able to walk firmly upon the right path of life.

187 Take note that fasting is only from dawn to dusk During other hours, eating, drinking or having sexual intercourse with one?s wife is not prohibited. The relationship between the two spouses is a most intimate one. Monasticism engendered the concept that celibacy is a means of attaining closeness to Allah, but He is well aware of the importance of the intimate relationship between spouses in fulfilling human needs, and also the perversions, fantasies and self-deception to which renunciation of marital relationships lead (57/21). Human beings may set unnatural limits upon themselves, but Allah?s Law rising above all such limits, dispels your doubts and anxieties and makes it clear that in the hours from dusk to dawn you are permitted to cohabit with your wives, as well as partake of food and drink. From dawn to dusk you are required to fast. If after dusk you are detained at your centre (of training or activity e.g. Masjid) in order to ponder or resolve some important issue or problem, then you should devote your total attention to the task in hand and refrain from going home.

These are the Laws laid down by Allah regarding matters which have been discussed above. You should adhere to them. Allah explains His Laws clearly so that people can fully understand and follow them.

188 (As mentioned earlier) always keep this fact in mind that the purpose of fasting is to create in you the self-discipline by means of which you can distinguish between what is lawful and unlawful in all spheres of life and to reject the latter no matter how strongly you are attracted to it. For instance, do not devour another?s property or bribe officials to give you that which belongs to another person when you are aware of the consequences that follow from acquiring anything unfairly. The purpose of fasting is, thus, to develop your personality in the manner described above.

189 We have stated earlier that fasting is during the month of Ramadan. This has led some people to think that some months are auspicious and some are inauspicious and they have referred the matter to you. O Rasool! say to them that it is mere superstition to call some months (or days) auspicious or inauspicious. In fact, specification of time is only to determine the calendar. The advantage of having a calendar is obvious ? for instance, it enables you to know when the Hajj is to be performed. Tell them clearly that superstition has no place in Deen. For instance, the belief that during the Hajj, the house should be entered from the back, and not from the front-door is only a superstition. Righteousness is not associated with such rites. It is concerned only with the degree to which you adhere to the Divine Laws and with the sublimity of your character. Therefore, set aside such ignorant practices and enter houses during the Hajj as you do during other days. http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/expo/expo_002.htm

THE TRUTH ABOUT ROZA (FASTING)

The root of the Arabic word Soam is saad (s), wau (w), and meem (m). Soam basically means to stop, cease, or discontinue. Here are some examples.

Sam Alfaras Horse stopped feeding.
Sam Alma Water stopped flowing.
Sam Alrih Wind stopped blowing.
Sam An Altaam Man stopped eating.

Like Qoum (nation) the weight of Soam is ?Faal? (action) and its source is Sam, Yasoum, and Siama, which mean to stop whatever someone is doing. On page 935 the Arabic dictionary ?Al Qamos Alwaheed? defines the meaning of Alsoam as to stop speech or action. But in religion Islam Soam is assumed to mean stop eating.

Siam is mentioned in the verses 183-188 of Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow) and Roza (fasting) is often derived from these verses. Let us study these verses directly from the Quran. God Almighty says

183

184

O ye who believe! Fasting (Roza) is prescribed to you, as it was prescribed to those before you, so that you become Mutaqi. (2183)

These are just a number of days. If any of you is sick or on a journey, he can make up the number on other days. For those who have the power to fast (but choose not to do so) there is a ransom, the feeding of a needy. But whoever does good gladly, it is good for him. And fasting is better for you if you knew. (2184) (Traditional Translation)

Let us assume that Soam means Fasting. Then, five out of six times Quran uses it as a punishment. But the beginning of the above verses is stunning. Here Quran states that the reason Fasting has been prescribed because it will make you Mutaqi. Is not it strange that the same act used as a punishment five times is now being prescribed as a gift or blessing? How is it possible that the same physical trial used as a punishment on various occasions suddenly becomes a blessing that helps people become Mutaqi (righteous)? If we consider it a punishment here as well, how come God subjected the whole Ummah (Muslim Nations) to this punishment from the day one? Does Ummah deserve this kind of punishment or is Siam something other than keeping oneself hungry and thirsty?

If we look at the sad and sorry plight of Muslims as a result of their never ending infighting and quarrels, they sure deserve such type of punishment even longer than one month fasting. Doubtless, the condition of Muslims today warrants the prescription of Ramadan Fasting as a punishment. But can Fasting in Ramadan make the Ummah Mutaqi? This is a million dollar question. As a matter of fact in no period in history Muslims ever became Mutaqi through Fasting in Ramadan. Contrary, Muslims display utter lack of discipline during Ramadan. You can see complete chaos and disorder on the streets, which results in complete breakdown of traffic system. Groceries and produce disappear from the shelves in stores. Prices of essential commodities sky rocket. (Ramadan is sure a blessing for the hoarders and profiteers, but not for the common folks.) Workers are either lazy and ignore their duties or absent during office hours. Do we need any more evidence to show that Roza or Fasting has not made any person Mutaqi and can never do so? Instead of making people Mutaqi Roza or Fasting in fact does the opposite.

Now let us take a look at the verse 177 of Surah Al-Baqarah, which defines the characteristics or qualities of a Mutaqi.

177

It is not a virtue that you turn your faces towards east or west. Virtuous is the one who believes in God, the Last Day, the Angels, the Scripture, and the Prophets; and who spends his wealth on relative, orphans, helpless, wayfarer, needy, and broke; and strives to establish political, social, and economical system according to God?s Commandments to bring about prosperity to the whole society; and he keeps his promises; And he is stead fast in all circumstance whether he encounters daily hardships or full scale war; such are the truthful people and deserve to be called Mutaqi. (2177)

Please ponder over the last part of this verse. It clearly states that only those people who possess the qualities or characteristics mentioned in this verse deserve to be called Mutaqi. Keeping in mind the characteristics of Taqawa (Righteousness), you can figure out who is a Mutaqi. Can fasting, which brings nothing but hunger and thirst, produce such noble characteristics in a person?

Let us review important points made in the above verse.

He becomes a Mumin by conforming to God?s decrees, Last Day, Angels, the Scripture, and the prophets.
He spends his wealth on relatives, orphans, helpless; those committed to God?s cause, the needy, and broke.
He establishes the system of Salat and Zakat according to God?s decrees.
He brings prosperity to humanity.
He fulfills his promises.
He is stead fast in all circumstances be it a routine hardship or state of war.

Did fasting, which is nothing but mere hunger and thirst, ever produce such noble qualities in a Muslim or any human being? The answer is no, never.

To produce these characteristics we need an ideology based on the firm Commandments whose results can be guaranteed. The same Commandments that Prophets enforced with the help of Angels and brought peace and security to the society. Every aspect of this ideology guarantees prosperity to the whole society. And those who follow this ideology are always prepared to take care of the needy and helpless in the society. They spend their wealth on those in need. They check and control economic woes with the system of Zakat. The always speak the truth and keep their promises. They uphold the scale of justice. They are steadfast in all circumstance. What produces these noble characteristics in a human being? It is Soam, of course. Those who acquire these qualities deserve to be called Mutaqi.

God Almighty says

These are just a number of days. If any of you is sick or on a journey, he can make up the number on other days. For those who have the power to fast (and do not fast) they feed the needy. (Traditional translation)

Here every translator plays mind games with God?s Words. Some claim there is an invisible LA (Not) before YUTIQUNAH. Hence, they insert (NOT) in their translation. Obviously, this translation is done for the Roza of hunger and thirst. If someone has the power or ability to fast but chooses not to do so, the whole business of Roza falls flat on its head. Hence, they force ?Not? in the translation. ?Whoever has (no) power to fast, can feed the helpless, as compensation.? Is not this a modification in the Quran? We blame others (Jews and Christians) for changing the scripture. Are not we guilty of doing exactly the same? Others were not satisfied with this alteration and they came up with their own. They claim YUTIQUANA means people who fast with too much force. Hence, God exempted them from fasting and instead let them feed the helpless. Obviously, this unique modification too is done to support the Roza of hunger and thirst.

But whoever does good gladly, it is good for him. And fasting is better for you if you knew.

Here Arabic word TATOWA means obedience. Hence, correct translation would be ?Whoever obeys the good (Khair, the Quran), it is good for him.? There is no mention of doing good gladly in the original Arabic text. In the verse 185 God says

185

Ramadan is the month in which we revealed the Quran, which is guidance for people, a criterion of right and wrong. Hence, whoever is present in this month should fast. Anyone sick or on a journey, he can complete the numbers on other days. God wants ease for you, not hardship. Hence, complete the numbers and establish God?s glory as commanded. And be grateful for God?s bounties. (2185)

The above is the traditional translation you can find in any Quran translation. Here is what we learn from the above translation.

Quran was revealed during the month of Ramadan. But we are also told that the Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years. To overcome this discrepancy, they tell us the revelation of the Quran began in Ramadan. Still not satisfied, they concocted another story that the Quran was brought down from the Highest Heavens to the Lowest in Ramadan. Then, it was revealed to the Prophet a little at a time. Anyway they had to invent a story whether it made any sense or not. The fact is that Ramadan did not get its name as a result of God?s revelations. The root of Ramadan is Raa, Meem, and Daad (R, M, Z), which means intense heat that burns skin. It also means to sharpen the blade of a sword. If Ramadan were a month during which the weather was very hot, we can speculate that during the times of the Prophet people used to follow solar calendar, not the lunar calendar. Likewise, the months Rabi-Al-Awal and Rabi-Al-Thani are associated with the harvesting season. Even in Pakistan the harvesting season is called the Days of Rabi.

The next part of the verse describes the virtues of the Quran.

This is Guidance for people and criterion of right and wrong.

The mention of these virtues of the Quran indicates that people will need Quran during Shahar Ramadan. The very purpose of reminding us the virtues of the Quran is that we use the Guidance and Truths of the Book to solve the problem humanity encounters.

Hence, whoever is present in this month should fast.

This traditional translation is extremely vague. ?Whoever is present? implies those who are alive. In other words fasting is mandatory only for those who are alive. This is a strange command. Do not we know that the dead cannot fast? To tell the people these commands are for the living implies that there are some commands meant for the dead. This is indeed a baloney. Quran was sent down for the living, not the dead.

There is fundamental error in this translation. By depicting Shahar Ramadan as a particular month, we opened the door and let in the Roza (fasting). Let us ponder over this part of the verse once again.

Henceforth, whoever witnesses this Shahar (state or situation) should stop (participating in or contributing to this state).

?Faman Shahid? (whoever witnesses) implies this is a situation or condition in the society that people can see or observe. By translating ?shahid? to mean ?find? or ?be present? (finding the month of Ramadan or be present during the month of Ramadan) has distorted the meaning of the term. We can see that for such situations or conditions the Quran was revealed and that we must take guidance from the Quran to meet the challenges and overcome these conditions.

Hence, whoever is sick or on journey he should complete the number on other days.

Two types of people are exempt from fasting, sick and the traveler. Traditional translators consider sick to mean only a person who is physically ill. Likewise, they consider a traveler to be a person who travels on land only. Generally, Arabic word ED means to count. But it can also mean to be prepared. And the word Astaadad (capability) is also derived from the root word ED. Next God Almighty says

God wills ease for you, not hardship. Hence, complete the numbers and establish God?s glory as commanded. And be grateful for God?s bounties.

Please note that here God explains the wisdom behind fasting, which is supposed to do the following.

Bring ease or comfort, not hardship
Complete the count
Facilitate establishing God?s glory and acknowledging His bounties

This verse includes a word ?bikum?, which means through you or with you. Mufsarin Quran incorrectly translate it to mean ?for you?. But Arabic has the word LIKUM, which means for you.

For the moment let us assume that Soam means Roza or Fasting, which is all about avoiding food and drink. Now we have a dilemma. The Roza does not fulfill the wisdom described for Soam. Humans are supposed to bring ease and comfort to the society through Soam as well as establish God?s glory. The Roza or Fasting can do none of these. It does not remove hardships (turmoil, unrest, anarchy, chaos, terror etc.) or bring ease and comfort to the society. Moreover, a rozadar fails to acquire any abilities to establish God?s glory.

In brief this fasting, which is mere hunger and thirst, can never establish God?s glory. The poor rozadar folks are preoccupied with the food and drink during the entire month of Ramadan. They cannot even think or imagine anything else. Far from establishing God?s glory by studying and enforcing His Decrees, these hungry and thirsty folks can neither think rationally nor do anything practically. As a matter of fact establishment of God?s glory requires devising and implementing programs to reform the society. Only a reformed society can insure just and equitable distribution of God?s abundant bounties as well as safeguard their rightful use.

Can saying ?Thank God? is enough to fulfill the obligation of Laalamkum Tashkurun (Hence, be grateful.)? The answer is definitely no. Your verbal ?Thank you? means nothing if you do not use the gift rightly. The person who gave you the gift feels hurt if you do not use the gift as it is intended. It matters nothing if you thank the gift giver every day. On the other hand if the gift giver sees you using the gift appropriately, it brightens his day even though you did not say thank you. Likewise, the best way to thank God is to make the best use of His bounties, which He has bestowed upon us.

In the next verse God Almighty says

186

And when my servants ask about me (tell them) I am nearby. Whenever someone calls Me, I answer. Hence, they should move ahead and become righteous by following My decrees. (2186)

Please take a look at this verse with reference to Roza. ?Where is your God?? Did anyone ask a Rozadar this question during the past 1400 years? How is this question even related to a Rozadar?

Let us take a critical look at Roza and Soam again. Here is what Soam does.

Soum makes people Mutaqi. The first quality of a Mutaqi is that he does not face East or West to worship God. Instead he lives his life according to God?s Commands at all times. Here are other characteristics of a Mutaqi.

He becomes a Mumin.
He spends his wealth and resources helping the needy.
He establishes the system (social and economic) according to God?s Decrees.
He builds a welfare state where everyone enjoys prosperity.
He never fails to fulfill his promises.
He is always stead fast in facing hardships and trials of life.

Whenever he sees chaos or disorder in the society, he not only distances himself from it but also prevents other from contributing to the disorder.
Quran was revealed to deal with such circumstances. By taking the Quran as guidance and criterion of right and wrong we can overcome the chaos and disorder and restore order and peace in the society.
He strives to acquire capabilities to achieve the above objectives.
This blue print of action insures the society functions according to God?s Decrees. And that is how God?s Supremacy is established.
Once God?s Supremacy is established, people will not fight over His abundant bounties. They will be shared justly and used rightly by all individuals of the society.
People who are busy carrying out Soam may face questioning, ?Where is such benevolent system?? or ?When/How such beneficent system will be implemented??

Raaajah

You separated it in two parts, the first one is of Allama sahib's and the second one which is called the "truth" is of whom?
Thanks for posting, I will take some time to read and comprehend it and then reply with my comments.

Bob

Dr Qamar Zaman, its from his book haqiqate soum )

Some points raised and discussed here http//www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=3&QID=572

Raaajah

The Intro part is quite ordinary. It is the same that any hadith rejecter would say and Infact had said.
Very common nothing new in it. These thoughts have been booked in much better manner by many others, Such as Rashad Khalifa, Pervez Sahib, Ghamidi, Islahi and many many others with slight differences.

Raaajah

I don't see any tackling of 2187 in this article, or may be I over looked it.
http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/2_187.png

..You may eat and drink until becomes distinct to you the white thread from the black thread of dawn...

And eat and drink and about wives and all that stuff.
wakul wa-ish'rab

Sure he needs lots of twisting to be done here.
Good Luck. peace

Bob

2187

It is made lawful for you to go to your wives at night during fasting. They are your garment and you are theirs. God
was aware of your dishonesty. He showed kindness and forgave your transgression. Now sleep with your wives
and seek whatever God has ordained for you (as a result of intercourse). Eat and drink until the white thread
appears distinct from the black thread. Then, complete the fasting until the night falls. But do not sleep with your wives when you are in retreat in Masjids. These are limits set by God. Do not approach them. Thus God makes clear His Message to people so that they become Muttaqi (upright). (Traditional Translation)

Mufassirin "" (traditional scholars of the Quran) explain that this verse allows men to enjoy intercourse with their wives at night during the fasting month. Women are your garment and you are theirs. People thought that they were not allowed to sleep with their wives at night during the fasting month. They thought they were committing transgression by sleeping with their wives at night. Now God granted them His approval and urged them to sleep with their wives.And whatever (child) is in the future as a result of the intercourse, they should look
for it. Eat and drink until the ray of day break is distinct from the darkness of night. Then, complete the fasting until night falls.

However, do not have any sexual contact with your wives while you are in retreat in the Masjids . These are limits set by God. Hence, do not ever approach them. Thus God makes His message clear so that they become Muttaqi. Look and ponder. At the end of this verse once again it is repeated, ?So that they become Muttaqi ?. Does this type of fasting and intercourse with wives ever build Taqwa in men? What is the relationship between Taqwa and intercourse at night? Let us go further. Here are some questions that the traditional ranslation of this verse raises. The verb or action in this verse is Rafas, which means bad mouthing or slandering.Our Mufassirin translate it
intercourse. Why? Does not Arabic language have the word ?Mubasharat? for intercourse?

Mufassirin or Traditional Scholars claim God is shy and could not say ?Mubasharat? (intercourse) directly.Hence, He said ?intercourse? indirectly by using the word ?Rafas? metaphorically.What a splendid explanation?But we got a problem here.How come God uses the word Mubasharat (intercourse) in the very next statement in the same verse?

God was aware of your transgression. Yet he showed mercy and forgave you. (Traditional translation)

God knew what they were doing was transgression or treachery.Yet, God allowed them to continue with their treachery. Why? An evil is always an evil no matter one committed it yesterday or toady or plans to do so tomorrow. Hence, treachery is always treachery. God is flawless. He would never sanction an evil or wrong act. Let us assume it was not a transgression in God?s eyes. Rather people felt that what they were doing could be a transgression. Hence, God showed mercy and forgave them. But we still have a problem here. Quran clearly attributes the knowledge of this transgression to God, not humans. Further, if we attribute the knowledge of wrong doing to umans, God could have negated their thought by saying, ?This is what you think, but God did not forbid it.?

What does Annisa mean here? If God meant wife or wives, He would have used the correct word Zoj or Azwaaj ? (wife or wives). Annisa not only means wives but mothers and sisters as well. Instead of common noun Nisa the proper noun Annisa has been used. Who are these special women?

Henceforth, sleep with them and seek what has been ordained for you as a result of this action. (Traditional
translation)

?Henceforth, sleep with them? indicates that people were not coupling before. Rather they got the command to do it now in order
to compensate for their transgression. Now we need to find out what the transgression was and how intercourse ended it.

And seek what has been ordained for you. (Traditional translation)

Mufassirin (traditional scholars of the Quran) think ?And seek what has been ordained for you? refers to the child conceived as a result
of the intercourse. But we have seen that all Mufassirin translate ?Kutiba Alaikum? in the verse 2183 to mean ?What God has decreed to you?. But in this verse they translate it to mean a child who is not even born yet. Mind you not every intercourse results in conception and the birth of a child.

Eat and drink. (Traditional translation)

Eating and drinking does not always mean eating food and drinking water. It also means seeking knowledge and applying it. Here we
need to discuss a bit more about the Arabic word ?Kulu? . When it is translated ?eat?, then our attention is diverted to fasting, which
prohibits eating and drinking. Now let us see how this word is used at other places in the Quran and what it really means there.

In verse 2168

O dwellers of the earth! Eat the produce of the earth, which is good (8U) and clean and do not follow the footsteps of Satan, as he is your sworn enemy.(Traditional translation)

This verse conveys two commands. First, eat Halal and clean or pure. Second, do not follow the footsteps of Satan
Obviously, if we take ?Kulu? to mean eat, then whoever follows Satan?s footsteps will be eating Haram and unclean foods
instead of Halal and clean. If God commands us to eat Halal and clean, Satan?s command is the opposite, i.e. eat Haram
and unclean. But we see that Satan is not giving any commands related to eating or drinking. He is commanding us something else, which is not even remotely related to eating. Take a look at the next verse.

He only commands you to commit evil and shameful acts. And that you talk about Allah of something you do not have any knowledge. (Traditional translation)

Arabic word Innama means ?only?. Hence, in the very beginning of the verse we are told that Satan specifically gives us
two commands and both are not related to eating. Instead they both deal with moral and ideological aspects of humans.
?Su? means vice and ?Al-Su? is proper noun. Hence, whatever Quran considers a vice is called ?Al-Su? in Arabic.This is the behavior Satan adopted against God?s command. In Surah Al-Baqarah this behavior is termed disobedience and pride (Aba wa Astakabara . We can see two things in Satan?s behavior.

*Aba ?) (Disobedience)

*Takabbar (Pride)

Both disobedience and pride are not things that we can eat or drink. Yet walking on the footsteps of Satan is termed as eating and
drinking. It would be worthwhile to study additional verses of Surah Al- Baqarah . Then, it will be clear to us that ?Kulu? means to acquire knowledge of God?s decrees and ?Sharab? means to apply this knowledge to our daily lives.

Till the white thread of dawn distinguishes the black thread of night (Traditional translation)

Al-Fajr (the Dawn) is a proper noun. This is not a regular dawn that we see every morning at day break. Otherwise, the common
noun Fajr (dawn) would have been used. Also, the verse does not say black thread will distinguish the white thread. Instead, it says
white thread will distinguish the black thread. If it meant the morning rays would distinguish the white thread from the black thread, then
Al-Fajr would be in subjective state. In that case we would see a damma "A " (vowel U) on the and the white
thread would be in objective state. Also, the use of a proper noun Al-Fajr (the dawn) indicates that either this dawn
has been mentioned before or it might be a new term used in the Quran. Similarly, proper nouns have been used for the Arabic words that
mean the white thread (day break) and the black thread (darkness of night). The same is the case with night. The Arabic word Al-Layil (the Night) is a proper noun. Of course there is a reason for using the proper nouns instead of common nouns.

And you must not have any sexual relations with them while you are in retreat in Masjids .These are
limits set by God. Do not approach them. (Traditional translation)

Generally this command is thought to be related to the fasting of hunger and thirst. As a result religious folks retreat in the Masjids and consider it their greatest achievement. We are well aware of the above fact. But what does it mean by Tilka Hudood Allah (these are limits set by God) and Fa La Taqrabuha (do not approach them)? We got a problem here if these ?limits set by God? are related to fasting. There is only one command of fasting. Hence, it will be considered only one limit.Why is God talking about multiple limits? Does the command ?Do not even approach them? refer to the same one month of fasting? If so, what does it mean ?do not approach the fasting?? If God meant the women, then the appropriate command would have been ?Fa La Taqrbuhunna?

..

What does it mean ?

They are Rafas and Annisa ). Rafas means bad-mouthing. The other term Annisa not only means women but it also applies
to the weak, deprived, and helpless folks of the society. The beginning of the verse shows that bad-mouthing or belittling the
deprived was made lawful. Doubtless, God can never sanction this type of behavior. When bad-mouthing (mistreatment and belittling
others) becomes accepted behavior in the society, the rich and influential treat the weak and destitute like Kami or untouchables.
They abuse the poor verbally and physically without fearing any requital. As a result the weak lose their self-esteem and consider
themselves worse than animals in front of the influential. Instead of fighting this evil and removing it from the society, our religious
leaders turned the subject towards women folks. They changed the meaning of Rafas from bad-mouthing to intercourse. Similarly
they changed the meaning of Annisa from the weak and destitute to wives. Hence, the whole subject of reformation of the
society turned into ordinary relationship between a husband and his wife. WOW!

Please remember that neither God?s decrees and His laws nor the consequences of the violation of those laws ever change. An evil is
always an evil whether the time is past, present, or future. What was a vice yesterday cannot become a virtue today. If Rafas was a
vice yesterday, it is a vice today, and will be a vice tomorrow. It is inconceivable to attribute a vice to God. How could we say that God
allowed continuing with the practice of bad-mouthing? Humans created such vices like bad-mouthing or belittling, not God. In other
words the rich and influential elite in the society had made Rafas (bad-mouthing or abuse) of Annisa (the weak and destitute) lawful.

The word Nisa also appears in the story of Prophet Moses and Pharaoh. It is said that Pharaoh killed the Abna and spared the lives of the Nisa of Bani Israel - the Israelites Under the influence of Jewish traditions our traditional scholars tell us that Pharaoh had ordered the killing of all new born boys of Bani Israel. Let us see who were the Abna and Nisa of Bani Israel Contrary to our traditional scholars? claims, Pharaoh declared his plan of killing Abna when Prophet Moses challenged him in his court. You can check the verse 249 where this order is attributed to the descendants of Pharaoh, not Pharaoh. And there is no mention of new born. The second place is verse 7127 which states that after sensing Moses? rebellion against the regime, the chieftains asked Pharaoh if he was going to let Moses and his nation go. Pharaoh replied

Doubtless, I will kill their Abna and spare their Nisa Third is verse 4025 where Hamaan and Korah gave the following advice to Pharaoh.

Kill the Abna who accepted the peace with Moses but spare their Nisa Our traditional scholars translate the above verse like this.
Kill the new born sons of those who are believers and spare their new born girls. There are many flaws in this translation. First, the occasion is when Prophet Moses visited the court of Pharaoh and challenged him, Hamaan, and Korah. Hence, Moses was an adult at his prime, not a new born. Second, the word Nisa or Annisa is used for an adult woman, not a new born girl.Third, Allazina Amanu (those who are believers in peace) defines Abna. Hence, correct translation for Abna Allazina Amanu would be ?Those Abna who became believers?.What the Pharaoh would have gotten by killing the son of a believer?The adult believers in peace posed a challenge forPharaoh?s authority,not their infant sons. Adult or fully grown males possess the physical capacities and will power to rebel against a tyrant and bring about a change in the regime.These believers standing in front of Pharaoh were fully grown powerful males.

But under the influence of myths and Jewish folk lore, our traditional scholars are hell bent on turning Quran into a book of Mythological Religion. Hence, wherever in the Quran there is a lesson for the ambitious and bold individuals to challenge the Pharaoh of times force him to restore human rights, our esteemed traditional scholars change the meanings, so that Abna of the nation feel helpless and give up their ambitions.

The Arabic word Nisa is used for those men and women who are scorned and suppressed by the elite so much that these helpless folks cannot even raise their voices in protest or demand their rights. This is the meaning of Nisa in this verse. Another word used in this verse
is Layil . We need to clarify its meaning as well. The same period called Shahar Ramadhan in verse 2185 is given another name Layilata Assiaam in the verse 2187. The meaning of Assiaam is obvious. It is the period when people will work to stop evil, spread the good, and
reform themselves. The dark night of this period stands for the days when nobody stops the evil or spreads the good. The tyrants continue with their tyranny and the victims cannot ask for justice or demand their rights. Quran calls this period Layilata Assiaam.In other words this is the period when human rights are violated. This is a dark night for those who wish to reform the society. Now let us translate the same verse using these meanings.

It had been made lawful for you to mistreat helpless folks during the dark nights of tyranny.

During the times when human rights were being violated it seemed as if the society had sanctioned the mistreatment of helpless and destitute. The rich and privileged had no fear in bad-mouthing and belittling them.

They are your garment and you are theirs.

It means these helpless folks you abuse, mistreat, exploit, and steal the fruits of their labor, are in fact your own people. You all had a
common ancestor. Hence, you all, whether rich or poor, are related to each other. By stealing the fruits of their labor and abusing them,
you were guilty of treason. Now the time has come to stop from indulging in such evil acts.

God was aware of your treachery against your own people.

(You were stealing the fruits of their hard labor.)

Yet, God turned to you and forgave you.

A study of these verses reveals that there is a period when the elite think it is alright to abuse and mistreat the helpless in the society.
The rich shun the poor and feel no guilt in stealing the fruits of their labor. This is the time when good people in the society must take
action. They should stop the elite from committing these evils, so that God may turn to them in favor. But to earn God?s mercy and
blessings, they must stop their treachery first. God never changes His laws. Hence what was dishonesty or infidelity yesterday, cannot
become honesty or fidelity today. Sadly, our forefathers never thought of applying treachery to violation of human rights or exploitation of the poor and helpless. Hence, they assumed the Arabic word Rafas meant sexual intercourse. They considered this treachery and fabricated a story to support their view. They never bothered to check it really meant bad-mouthing, defiling, or slandering. Applying this meaning we can understand the message of the verse. God Almighty is addressing the Rich Elites who shun the helpless in the society, treat them like untouchables, and exploit and mistreat them. God warns them that He was aware of their treachery but forgave them. Henceforth, they should mend their ways by stopping exploitation of the helpless, restoring social relations with them, and treating them like their own brothers/sisters.

Henceforth, establish intimate relations with them and seek only what is legally yours according to God?s decrees.

Now let us take a look at the same verse again with brief translation.

Mistreatment of Annisa (Kami or common folks) had been widespread or considered acceptable behavior in the society. But they are your brothers and sisters (you all are the children of a common ancestor). God was aware of your treachery against your own people. Yet, he turned to you in favor and forgave you. Now you can establish cordial relations with them and take only what rightfully belongs to you.

You can see how our Imams corrupted the pristine message of the verse by changing the meaning of word baashiru hunna from socializing or intimate relations to sexual intercourse. The root of this Arabic word baashiru hunna is Baa, Sheen, and Raa. Taken literally it means direct contact. But semantically it carries two different meanings, i.e. to meet someone or convey good news. Our Mufassirin focused on ?to meet? and figured it meant sexual intercourse. In this verse the word baashiru hunna conveys its fundamental meaning and it suits the occasion and the subject under discussion. Here the topic is the sad and sorry state of the weak and helpless in the society. They are being exploited, degraded, and the fruits of their hard labor taken away from them in the broad daylight. The rich and influential shun them. God Almighty knew this and He considered it treachery. Nevertheless, He showed them His favor and forgave their past mistakes.

Hence, they must immediately stop this treachery and take steps to mend their ways. Now they must establish intimate relations with the weak and helpless . And convey the good news to them that the dark days of injustice and misery are over. From now on nobody will steal the fruits of their hard labor. They will no longer fear exploitation or mistreatment at the hands of the rich and influential. Instead of stealing the fruits of others? labor, everyone will seek only what is lawfully his/her, as ordained by God?s decrees. This recourse demands that you study the revelations (the Quran), which distinguish between the right and wrong. Then, you will be able to identify the wrong traditions, customs, and faiths the society has embraced. That is why God Almighty says

Eat and drink until the dawn distinguishes the white thread from the black thread.

Our Imams and Mufassirin use the above verse to derive the times of fasting. According to them the white thread means the start of dawn. Likewise, they consider the black thread to mean the end of night. Further, they consider Min Alfajr to mean morning. Hence, the traditional translation looks like this. ?Eat and drink at night until you see the dark thread of night distinguish from the white thread of morning.?

The first fundamental error in this translation is that human is being shown to be subject of this statement. There is no Arabic word in
this statement that could be translated as ?you see?. The second error is that the compound word (the white thread), which is the subject, has been made object instead. Here ? (the white thread) is the subject and ? ? (the black thread) is the object. Hence, it is the white thread that distinguishes the black thread. If we consider white thread to mean the morning ray or day break, it distinguishes the black thread or
night ray. Night is already there. Hence, the morning ray does not distinguish the night. Rather morning ray heralds the beginning of the day. The third error in this translation is not taking into account the use of Proper Noun. The morning is a proper noun. Hence, it is a
special morning, not ordinary or common morning that we see daily at the beginning of the day. They are compound words made up of adjectives and proper nouns. They do not stand for common whiteness of the day or blackness of the night. For the morning ray we see every day at day break the proper Arabic word would be. Likewise, the common blackness of night would be called ? In brief both compound words contain adjectives and proper nouns. The white or the black describe the quality of the thread .

The second important thing to consider is that the white thread distinguishes the black thread. In other words until the white thread
shows up, nobody knows about the black thread. If it means regular or common night, then everyone knows it is night regardless of
whether outside is pitch-black. Hence, it is something that will provide us with information about an upcoming thing or event. Similarly, Alfajr (the morning or dawn) is proper noun. Itrepresents a special morning, not the regular morning we witness daily. If it were a common morning, the Arabic word Fajr would be appropriate. But our clergy wants to present the Noble Quran as a book of mere religious rituals. Hence, they changed the meanings of the above Arabic terms to suit their needs for religious rituals. Please remember that the words ?the white thread?, ?the black thread? and ?the morning? used in this verse are all proper nouns.

Also, ?the white thread? is the subject? that influences the object ?the black thread?. All three components of this verse carry figurative or metaphorical expressions. Hence, we must find out what these words ?the white thread?, ?the black thread? and ?the morning? really mean. But we must insure their meanings convey the same message Quran intends and they fit in the context.

The Arabic word Alfajr appears in the Quran multiple times. But verse 78 of Surah Al-Asra tells us explicitly what Alfajr stands for.

Establish the system of Salat to bring forth the new Dawn and remove the darkness of tyranny with Quran Al-Fajr

Salat is not Namaz but a system (executive, legislative, and judicial) we build according to God?s decrees. This system results in a new dawn, which brings hope of prosperity, and removes the darkness of economic and social injustices from the society. That is what Quran Al-Fajr means. With the sun rise the darkness of night disappears. Likewise the Quran is a shining light that causes the darkness of tyranny to disappear. The white thread represents the shining verses of the Quran while the black thread represents wrong traditions, customs, and beliefs prevalent in the society. Hence the shining teachings of the Quran will distinguish the wrong traditions and beliefs and
remove the darkness of tyranny from the society.

develop and implement the program of action according to the teachings of the Quran, it is no good to promise anything. Unfulfilled
promises bring nothing but misery. Hence, God Almighty says

You must not promise anything while you are still in the process of studying God?s decrees and planning their implementation.

These are limitations or boundaries set by God.

Do not ever come near or cross them.

It is obvious that incorrect or unreasonable expectations about God?s decrees regarding human rights could bring in unfavorable
consequences. The limitations set by God refer to God?s decrees or commandments. These points to Masajids , as the word Masajids is followed by the statement, ?These are limitations set by God? . Hence, Masajids are God?s limitations .

Raaajah

As expected it was lots of twisting and toil gathered to change and draw the meanings that needed to be arrived at.

Following is your translation

It had been made lawful for you to mistreat helpless folks during the dark nights of tyranny. They are your garment and you are theirs. God was aware of your treachery against your own people. Yet, God turned to you and forgave you. Henceforth, establish intimate relations with them and seek only what is legally yours according to God?s decrees. Establish the system of Salat to bring forth the new Dawn and remove the darkness of tyranny with Quran Al-Fajr. You must not promise anything while you are still in the process of studying God?s decrees and planning their implementation. These are limitations or boundaries set by God.
Do not ever come near or cross them.

I will discuss it part by part and try to understand it, hope you will bear with me

Bob

However, do not have any sexual contact with your wives while you are in retreat in the Masjids. These are limits set by God. Hence, do not ever approach them. Thus God makes His message clear so that they become Muttaqi. Look and ponder. At the end of this verse once again it is repeated, ?So that they become Muttaqi ?. Does this type of fasting and intercourse with wives ever build Taqwa in men? What is the relationship between Taqwa and intercourse at night? Let us go further.

But before we go further, it will be better if I understand what Taqwa is? According to my understanding it is as follows
If we read verse 25 from chapter 8 it says
And guard yourselves against a chastisement which cannot fall exclusively on those of you who are wrong-doers, and know that Allah is severe in punishment.
And in 1681
And Allah has made for you, from that which He has created, shadows and has made for you from the mountains, shelters and has made for you garments which protect you from the heat and garments which protect you from your battle. Thus does He complete His favor upon you that you might submit?
These two verses above show that taqwa is some sort of protect/guard some one from..
How can Taqwa be achieved, how can be one become Muttaqi ? Allah tells us by complying with the orders of Allah in all walks of life. Let us see 221
O you the living Mankind, you be subservient/allegiant to the Sustainer Lord of you people, the One Who created you people and those people who existed in times before you, so that you...

Therefore from Quran we can conclude that Al-Muttaqi is the one who does not withdraw but hold fast to the Revelations of Allah.

Now coming back to the verse in discussion and to your question
Does this type of fasting and intercourse with wives ever build Taqwa in men?
What is the relationship between Taqwa and intercourse at night?

Yes! It does, they are ordered to follow command of Allah, which they were not following before,
and who holds fast to revelation of Allah is Muttaqi. The relationship between intercourse and Taqwa is following Allah?s orders and not adding and deleting any rights Allah has provided.

coming to first translation of the verse by you

It had been made lawful for you to mistreat helpless folks during the dark nights of tyranny. They are your garment and you are theirs.

I do not find any known culture/religion in the existing history that had made Lawful to mistreat helpless. To start with such an assumption is not a good idea at all. Then How can a ?Help less? person be a ?garment? of a person in ?power?, that is most amazing part of translation. Libas appears as cover in Quran, therefore how come a ?helpless? person is cover for any one, let alone for a Powerful.
The root word ?lbs? means
To wear/cover, put on a garment, be clothed in, envelop, and conceal, conformed, cloak/disguise, that which is worn.
The word garment conveys feelings of warmth, closeness, protection and security. It is interesting that the root meaning of taqwa includes to safeguard, to protect, to preserve, to shield, to shelter, and to prevent. It is easy to see why the word LIBAS is used here for Husband and wife and makes no sense at all to call ?helpless? people the garments of powerful and vice-versa.

Bob

Rafas means bad-mouthing. The other term Annisa not only means women but it also applies
to the weak, deprived, and helpless folks of the society.

I would like to see the source for RAFAS meaning ?Bad mouthing?. Regarding annisa applying to the weak is because of Women, as they are considered to be the weaker sex and they were deprived , weak and helpless folks of that society therefore it is ?women? no doubt.
You gave following example of 249
Bob

You can check the verse 249 where this order is attributed to the descendants of Pharaoh, not Pharaoh. And there is no mention of new born.

The ayat says this
..they used to kill your male children and they had decided to let your females live...

And 4027 goes like this
..they/the inner confidants said, "You people kill the sons of those who have believed along with him and let remain their daughters live"
I don?t see any NEW born in this translation.
Bob

What the Pharaoh would have gotten by killing the son of a believer? The adult believers in peace posed a challenge for Pharaoh?s authority, not their infant sons. Adult or fully grown males possess the physical capacities and will power to rebel against a tyrant and bring about a change in the regime. These believers standing in front of Pharaoh were fully grown powerful males.

He wanted to terrify them. They (Believers with Musa) were in Hiding and only Moses went to the Palace as is evident from next verse, his confidants were giving him a suggestion to kill the sons of those believers those who are in hiding. But Pharaoh said Why not Kill Moses instead..
Pharaoh said, "Let me kill Moses, and let him implore his Lord. I worry lest he corrupts your religion, or spreads evil throughout the land."

It may be help full if you shed some light up to here, before I can ask you further questions.

san

Peace Raaajah,

I hope you'll let me join this discussion between Bob and you, while waiting for Bob's response.

I do not find any known culture/religion in the existing history that had made Lawful to mistreat helpless. To start with such an assumption is not a good idea at all. Then How can a ?Help less? person be a ?garment? of a person in ?power?, that is most amazing part of translation. Libas appears as cover in Quran, therefore how come a ?helpless? person is cover for any one, let alone for a Powerful.
The root word ?lbs? means
To wear/cover, put on a garment, be clothed in, envelop, and conceal, conformed, cloak/disguise, that which is worn.
The word garment conveys feelings of warmth, closeness, protection and security. It is interesting that the root meaning of taqwa includes to safeguard, to protect, to preserve, to shield, to shelter, and to prevent. It is easy to see why the word LIBAS is used here for Husband and wife and makes no sense at all to call ?helpless? people the garments of powerful and vice-versa.

Yes, physically, the husband and wife "wears each other", isn't that what you are trying to say?

Just so you know, in the city near where i live, it is legally forbidden to give charity to beggars on the streets, for fear that they may keep coming to the streets, however at the same time, there seems to be no compensation program being prioritized (by the local government) to address the concern.

And the recent murder of teenagers in the public in Pakistan--weren't police officers there? weren't many people there? Is it wrong to say that they allowed for the incident to happen? And that is even more ruthless than just bad-mouthing.

Read here for more (iirc, there are also videos if you follow the links) http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601260.0

Where is the taqwa?

Where is the taqwa that, according to you (and numerous scholars i imagine), results from fasting?

To quote your own words The word garment conveys feelings of warmth, closeness, protection and security. It is interesting that the root meaning of taqwa includes to safeguard, to protect, to preserve, to shield, to shelter, and to prevent.

Is taqwa limited to husband-wife relationship?

What happens with the authority/government/those in power being warm, close, protecting, preserving, shielding, sheltering and securing the poors/helpless in their country, and preventing such inhuman/harmful incidents to happen to them? Is that too much to ask?

ed "taqwa" in place of "piety"

san

http//humantrafficking.change.org/blog/view/saudi_employers_torture_maids_and_get_away_with_it

Another picture that hopefully can help open your eyes, that in some places outside your room, not only foul-mouthing happens, but also torturing as well. Why would the government allow for such incidents to happen, un-retributed?

Peace