Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
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Read it not in relation to women where it suffers negativity and sexual harrassment, but in the context of husband and wife, where husband is desirous of mentally and physically preparing her for intercourse , the ultimate of sex process. Good husbands, if they realize that wife has not reached to the ultimate point of satisfaction, do not turn side but instead take recourse to even afterwards to make her achieve final orgasm. Have you noticed that while in Arabic the things are narrated in the most descent manner while in other languages I could not explain it that nudity becomes apparent.
Mazhar salam
Your quoted paragraph probably is an extract of Irma Kurtz Agony column from latest Cosmo issue, or, is it your imagination which has created an x-rated mess out of a straight forward commandment? I think it is simply conveying, " That you are being allowed to sexually approach women during the nights of sayyam" "sexually approach" covers everything.
Then you are translating Baashaar as sexual intercourse , where as this word should be translated as " Having sex" and having sex covers so many things, intercourse may or may not be a part of it.
And also, you are translating Nissa as wives? and when san questions you on it , you insist upon it. I feel sorry '( that people of your intellect have taken upon themselves to translate Quran.
siki
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Siki
I feel sorry '( that people of your intellect have taken upon themselves to translate Quran.
Siki if some one does not agree to your and Aymen's Islam it does not mean to say he is not intelligent or he is not able to translate, any how if DR. QZ can I think any one can.
Siki
That you are being allowed to sexually approach women during the nights of sayyam" "sexually approach" covers everything.
May be new inductees of Qamri sect will be laughing at this translation.
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Siki if some one does not agree to your and Aymen's Islam it does not mean to say he is not intelligent or he is not able to translate, any how if DR. QZ can I think any one can.
May be new inductees of Qamri sect will be laughing at this translation.
?And do not be like the Mushrikun. Those who split up their religion, and become sects, - each sect rejoicing in that which is with itself.? (3031,32)
I cannot comprehend why you are critical of an individual?s character; rather than provide a response to the points raised, you persist with unnecessary lame remarks. You constantly produce assertions regarding Dr Qamar Zaman, but fail to offer a valid reply to the line of reasoning presented.
When one speaks to shia?s /sunni?s they refer to him / her as a ?Parvezi?
What is said to them, they try to mis-direct / dismiss with retorted nonsense and attack the individual. They sanction others; declaring the formation of new sects - imposing and categorising others as ?labelled end-products?.
This is exactly what you are doing; you are classifying others into sects that do not exist. These labels are inflicted on the innocent party; namely one who is trying to study the Quranic message.One who does not classify himself / herself as anything but a student and follower of the Quran... is inevitably branded and written-off by individuals who have a stipulation to belong to a sect? How ironic indeed!
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An ad hominem (Latin "to the man", also known as argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise. The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy. The ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.
Ad hominem abuse
Ad hominem abuse (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate his or her argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.
Examples
- "You can't believe Jack when he says the proposed policy would help the economy. He doesn't even have a job."
- "Candidate Jane's proposal about zoning is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003."
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
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Bob
I cannot comprehend why you are critical of an individual?s character; rather than provide a response to the points raised, you persist with unnecessary lame remarks. You constantly produce assertions regarding Dr Qamar Zaman, but fail to offer a valid reply to the line of reasoning presented.
In this particular post Bob I was responding to SIKi, who instead of providing a response to Mazhar's translation or providing any arguments against Mazhar's Translation is attacking MAzhar.
Siki to Mazhar
I feel sorry '( that people of your intellect have taken upon themselves to translate Quran.
So since you seem to have taken recent lectures on fallacies, what type is this one?
What I think of his line of reasoning is that it is pure crap, as discussed earlier and Yes you can call me some one who knows nothing.
But at least Dr. Shabbir is a well known scholar, he has to say about DR. QZ
Thanks to brothers Adnan Khan and Rumi, I got the link to Dr. Qamar Zaman's HAQEEQAT SOUM & TRUTH ABOUT SOUM. Finally, I have been able to read both versions of the book, Urdu & English.
How can I trust a man who cannot even spell SAUM right? Let it go -)
SAUM is no punishment. The five places where he thinks of SAUM as punishment, are clearly referring to TAQWA (being watchful of Divine commands regarding our conduct). SAUM is prescribed in those instances for being careful of our utterances and actions. Soldiers run around a field every morning for fitness. They may be ordered to run around for attaining discipline as well.
Dr. Qamar Zaman DOES NOT EVEN KNOW the ultimate objective of SAUM! This fact alone effectively DEMOLISHES his THESIS.
In the zest to create some furor among gullible Muslims, Dr. Zaman did not have patience enough to see the ultimate objective of the collective SAUM. He stops short at 2183 and closes his eyes to 2185. Finding the word TATTAQUN in the former he breathlessly jumps to MUTTAQI, dwells on it, and gets the reader confounded in and around that term at great length.
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But at least Dr. Shabbir is a well known scholar, he has to say about DR. QZ
Lets have a look at what ur God no two, Dr Shabbir say about Qamar Zaman. Yes this is a well known scholar,,,,attention plz
28 Aug 2010
By*Dr. Shabbir
Date Saturday, 28 August 2010, 238 pm
In Response To Do you believe in Saum? (*Dr. Shabbir)For some tech reason, I cannot reach Dr Qamar Zaman's aastana.com.
Will some friend please advise what he says about SAUM?
Thanks!
http//www.ourbeacon.com/cgi-bin/bbs60x/webbbs_config.pl/md/read/id/314123119155815He Dont know what Dr Qamar is saying,,yet ?
Lets see what he said 20 sept 2009
"Dr." Qamar Zaman has been shunning my probing questions on email for nearly one week now while I have proceeded with my R&R (Research and Reflection) in the meantime. A life-long student won't rush with anything, so I have not dismissed SAUM yet.
His books are neither original nor linguistically and ideologically Qurani-centric. His Urdu book on the Forum requires a long time even for a speedy reader like me. See how time-consuming our brother Zubair found it. http//www.ourbeacon.com/cgi-bin/bbs60x/webbbs_config.pl/md/read/id/314123119146684
Right ?
Now have a look at this,
By*Dr. Shabbir
Date Thursday, 2 September 2010, 640 am
Thanks to you again and to Dr. Qamar Zaman for clarifying a very important issue. Consider me in the same boat.Due apologies for any semblance of harshness. http//www.ourbeacon.com/cgi-bin/bbs60x/webbbs_config.pl/md/read/id/314123119156083Have a look at the conversation between the Great scholar Dr Shabbir and a few others...http//aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=3&QID=572
Now plz try to discuss the content and not Dr Qamar, If you have anything to say about him,call him and say it to him.
"Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people."Eleanor Roosevelt
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Then you are translating Baashaar as sexual intercourse , where as this word should be translated as " Having sex" and having sex covers so many things, intercourse may or may not be a part of it.
And also, you are translating Nissa as wives? and when san questions you on it , you insist upon it. I feel sorry that people of your intellect have taken upon themselves to translate Quran. siki
Like san, you also need to have an elementary course in Arabic since you even do not know which word means wives.
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Bob
Lets have a look at what ur God no two, Dr Shabbir say about Qamar Zaman. Yes this is a well known scholar,,,,attention plz
Are you feeling good? I don't think so.
Bob
And my suggestion for you is to answer my questions.
Try to understand you are trying to promote a theory of Dr. QZ which has faced its death before its birth. What answers do you need? Have you not read the posts of Mazhar? You have to go through Basics.
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Bob
meanwhile ill listen to Mohd Rafi. Im glad there are so many rafians here. i feel @ home now,plz let me knw if any of you want some gems from my golden collection
Zara Soun Eh haseena ay nazneen mera dil tujhi pay nisar hay; do you have this one, then please.
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Like san, you also need to have an elementary course in Arabic since you even do not know which word means wives.
Thanks for the advice, but could you please tell us which word have you translated as wives?
and if it is "Nissa" that you have translated as wives, then I would say again, "I feel sorry that people of your intellect have chosen to translate Quran"
Good husbands, if they realize that wife has not reached to the ultimate point of satisfaction, do not turn side but instead take recourse to even afterwards to make her achieve final orgasm
And could you please also care to explain as to how have you deduced above from 2-187 ? I mean the following ,
"a good husband, trying to find out that the woman has not had orgasm, so the Mr GOOD HUSBAND sacrificing post sex slumber and making an other attempt to ensure that his partner may also achieve an orgasm"
siki
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Thanks for the advice, but could you please tell us which word have you translated as wives? and if it is "Nissa" that you have translated as wives, then I would say again, "I feel sorry that people of your intellect have chosen to translate Quran"
siki
Long time back Raaajah had told this, ask any who knows basic Arabic if he could deny what Raaajah has said, except those doctors who have made fool of themselves.
Bob
Dr.QZ
Read his page 21. He talks about and says definite noun has been used instead of and puts the question who are these special women, because if God meant wives the word would have been used. Here he is obviously a cheat, though exposed himself. And also never answers the question.
Actually the word used is and not since it is a possessive phrase with suffixed pronoun of second person, masculine, plural which denotes nothing except "wives of you people".
Thanks for the advice, but could you please tell us which word have you translated as wives? and if it is "Nissa" that you have translated as wives, then I would say again, "I feel sorry that people of your intellect have chosen to translate Quran"
siki
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Bob
Are you feeling good? I don't think so.Bob
Try to understand you are trying to promote a theory of Dr. QZ which has faced its death before its birth. What answers do you need? Have you not read the posts of Mazhar? You have to go through Basics.I do feel good,always.... Try to understand, you have to discuss a content and not ppl. Its boring
Are you saying Roza fasting ritual is a command, but its dependent on Hijri calendar ? Are you saying Hajj is a command, but its dependent on Hijri Calendar ?
If a command is dependent upon a specific calendar, which is not practical in certain parts of the world, then the command become null and void.
If a command is dependent upon a calendar then its properties and design should be demonstrated or illustrated in the Quran.
Otherwise the command is not complete. If the hijri calendar is a man-made device then its subject to change according to future generations. - as it is not preserved in the Quran, it?s outside of the Quran.
If Ramadhan is a favourable month which is important, why haven?t its practicalities been explained? The scheduling not determined? Neither has the criteria for its appearance within the year been established.
It is not clarified whether, the solar or the lunar, out of the two calendar systems, which should be utilised... as it is not ordained to follow specifically the Hijri calendar.
Yet the Hajj and the fasting rituals are dependent upon the Hijri calendar. The Hijri calendar was not implemented by Allah or the Prophet Mohammed neither did Syedana Ibrahim employ this system.
If Allah has stated that the Quran is fully detailed and complete, then any given command should encompass all criteria and provisions.
If we are not dependent on the Hadith in order to establish salaat, then we should not be advocating a calendar system endorsed by Hadith to establish soam.
If one becomes mottaqi by fasting, and the amount of fasting in one day is determined by the season i.e. fasts are longer in summer then winter, then the capacity and level of muttaqi would also be varied .....
(Dont you dare say anything about the maestro, argg dont make me angry > ,http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n3WNPdBY58&p=532F0DC15031138F&playnext=1&index=11 ;D)
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It seems you do not know Arabic and also seem to have missed Raaajah's post.
11of sura 49 ,
This verse has always been misinterpreted without any exception . how can word " " be translated as a male person .
In this verse the word " ? means a strong nation , in this verse word " ? is from which has the meaning of being strong " " " the one who has some footing . the meaning of " " is self explanatory i.e. people who have no footing and proverb used here for " "is " " although here in this verse " " means people who have no footing as opposed to people who are called " " .QAUM is a mixture of both males and females, still the PRONOUN used is that of Male ? MASCULINE. So, a masculine pronoun can include a group of both males and females and the use of respective pronouon will be governed by the form and nature of the Noun that has been used in the beginning of the sentence. (QAUM - Masculine)
Likewise, NISAA is again a QAUM, though a weaker one, consisting of both males and females. Still a FEMININE PRONOUN can be used for this society of mixed people. Why? Because the NOUN used here is taken, under the rules, as feminine (NISAA).
For all of you who may still be searching, I have one small hint from Allama Pervaiz? Tabweeb ul Quran. Kindly check page No.1048, and go downwards under Chapter ?
6 th line. It reads as under -
- ? ---
We can now be sure that Allama Pervaiz? research had been successful and he had found out the Root meaning of the word NISAA. Though the learned Scholar calls it MAJAZI MA?ANI, but the fact remains that he was well aware of this meaning and could use it with confidence and authority. If he could find the Root meanings, we can also do so with some more effort. I hope this settles the issue of NISAA.
whats the singular of "Nisaa" ? whats "A WOMAN " ?
Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives.They are your garments and ye are their garments.
So its lawful to do fahash klami, "prepare ur wife for intercourse" in the night of abstinence ?
BUT Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you;
What were they doing secretly among themself? What is "forgiven" by Allah ? What did they do and when did they stop doing whatever they were doing ? Is Allah forgiving rafasa with their wife? did they stop doing it ?If Rafas was a vice yesterday, it is a vice today, and will be a vice tomorrow.
Who permitted rafas with your "wife" ?
The word Annisa is for women,,,that could be sister,daughter,mother etc. Why not use the proper word for wife if this verse is about husband and wife ? "Go sleep with your women" huh ? so if you have a girlfriend and your not married to her,ur permitted to sleep with her according to this verse ? This is Arabic Mubeen,remember,,,,,
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And could you please also care to explain as to how have you deduced above from 2-187 ? I mean the following ,
"a good husband, trying to find out that the woman has not had orgasm, so the Mr GOOD HUSBAND sacrificing post sex slumber and making an other attempt to ensure that his partner may also achieve an orgasm"
siki
Mazhar,would you please answer ? how have you deduced "A good husband ,trying to find out that the woman has not had orgasm,so the MR GOOD HUSBAND sacrificing post sex slumber and making an other attempt to ensure that his partner may also achieve an orgasm" from 2187 ?
-X -\ -[ ) ???
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Peace all,
I was having a good vacation last weekend, hope you guys were having a good time as well
Like san, you also need to have an elementary course in Arabic since you even do not know which word means wives.
Mazhar, since you seem to have taken that "elementary course in Arabic", please enlighten us as when to take nisaa, in any form, as "wives", and when to take it as "women". Also please show us what does it mean to be consistent.
It seems you do not know Arabic and also seem to have missed Raaajah's post.
Actually the word used is and not since it is a possessive phrase with suffixed pronoun of second person, masculine, plural which denotes nothing except "wives of you people".
Let's start with what seems to be a prime example. Verse , with focus on the word
"O Maryam! Indeed, Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you over women of the worlds."
"O Maryam! Indeed, Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you over wives of the worlds."
If your response is the meaning depends on the context (which would render the quote above useless), then what makes you confident that your (and not others' interpretation of the context is the most correct?
I'd be very happy to take any good advice to improve consistency in interpreting AQ.
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11of sura 49 ,
This verse has always been misinterpreted without any exception . how can word " " be translated as a male person .
In this verse the word " ? means a strong nation , in this verse word " ? is from which has the meaning of being strong " " " the one who has some footing . the meaning of " " is self explanatory i.e. people who have no footing and proverb used here for " "is " " although here in this verse " " means people who have no footing as opposed to people who are called " " .QAUM is a mixture of both males and females, still the PRONOUN used is that of Male ? MASCULINE. So, a masculine pronoun can include a group of both males and females and the use of respective pronouon will be governed by the form and nature of the Noun that has been used in the beginning of the sentence. (QAUM - Masculine)
Likewise, NISAA is again a QAUM, though a weaker one, consisting of both males and females. Still a FEMININE PRONOUN can be used for this society of mixed people. Why? Because the NOUN used here is taken, under the rules, as feminine (NISAA).
For all of you who may still be searching, I have one small hint from Allama Pervaiz? Tabweeb ul Quran. Kindly check page No.1048, and go downwards under Chapter ?
Because of such ridiculous "argument" I had suggested for you you and san to undertake a basic course in Arabic and for QZ to undertake a refresher course. Only a stupid "scholar" can say that .
If a group of human beings comprises of six billion people in which all are women with only one male, even then the pronoun will always be MASCULINE and not feminine. I don't know why people keep insisting on their foolish thoughts even at the cost of risk of being taken as idiots?