9/11 Burning Of Quran Must Go On!

Ayisha

Ayisha
Not All Shias and Sunnis call so called Quranists as Non Muslims, so you cannot call all of them Extremists, but Alen is an individual who calls other Muslims, NON MUSLIMS therefore he is an Extremist for sure. I think it is difficult for a lady like you to understand, who thinks each and every thing written by Rajah is to be countered, no matter how silly you appear.

This shows your typical mind set.

sunni call shia non muslim, as individuals and as a group they do this, therefore sunni are all extremists by your logic

Sunni call those who follow Quran only non muslims, sunni say Islam is Quran AND sunnah of Muhammed and as the 'majority' agree on this Islam from Allah has changed to Islam from Allah AND Bukhari

A Muslim follows Allah and what Allah said in His Book, the name Quranist is a label given by those that follow Bukhari and Quran, in that order, to those that follow Quran only and used actually as an insult.

One who follows Allah alone is a Muslim, not a Quranist
One who follows Allah and bukhari is a sunni muslim

Did Allah mention anywhere about 'sunni' muslims or wahabi muslims or salafi muslims or shia muslims? Yes He did, He said DO NOT split this. Did He mention following hadith? Yes He did, he said THIS Hadith is the best Hadith and what other do you need AFTER this. Did He mention following a sunnah? Yes He did, sunnat Allah.

Raaajah

Ayisha

This shows your typical mind set.
sunni call shia non muslim, as individuals and as a group they do this, therefore sunni are all extremists by your logic

Sunni call those who follow Quran only non muslims, sunni say Islam is Quran AND sunnah of Muhammed and as the 'majority' agree on this Islam from Allah has changed to Islam from Allah AND Bukhari

A Muslim follows Allah and what Allah said in His Book, the name Quranist is a label given by those that follow Bukhari and Quran, in that order, to those that follow Quran only and used actually as an insult.

One who follows Allah alone is a Muslim, not a Quranist
One who follows Allah and bukhari is a sunni muslim

Did Allah mention anywhere about 'sunni' muslims or wahabi muslims or salafi muslims or shia muslims? Yes He did, He said DO NOT split this. Did He mention following hadith? Yes He did, he said THIS Hadith is the best Hadith and what other do you need AFTER this. Did He mention following a sunnah? Yes He did, sunnat Allah.

I know reality bites, but Alen or any one who calls other Muslim a Kaffir is an extremist.

rraza

i love how raajah always circumvents around a logical argument and repeats himself instead of trying to reply with a logical answer.

Nafi

Ayisha
I know reality bites, but Alen or any one who calls other Muslim a Kaffir is an extremist.

I agree with Rajaah, Alen is very extreme in his words

Sunnis and Shias may not be follow the core of Islam, the Quran attentively, and instead favour innovations of traditions. But they're still partly muslims, just not completely on the straight path, just as a Quranist may not understand salat, so he is not perfect. We all have our faults.

Alen

Peace be upon you,
with all due Respect.

@Raaajah.
Sunnis that I have met and keep meeting here and now, keep telling me that I am a kaffir, that I should be killed, that I am a liar, that I will end up in HellFire.
Now, I don't mind when they have an opinion about me, I'm always curious and love meeting new people and making ne wfriendships, Thank God. However, I don't like when sunnis make threats to end my life or tell me that they know who will end up in HellFire.

First of all nowhere in The Qur'an, did I read about sunnis or sunni muslims, shias or shia muslims or wahabis or salafis or malikis or ahmadiyyas or something similar. I did hear about submitters, believers, nonbelievers and rejecters and so on. God knows best, Glory be to God.

Second If you heard what I heard yesterday at the Speaker's Corner where muslims, sunnis and christians meet every sunday to discuss what they believe and invite people into their belief system, you would not be only amazed - you would purchase a ticket to Venezuela and stay there until 2029.

Yesterday - Jamal is my witness - one sunni was inviting people to sunnism and called it Islam but he was doing it in such way, that you I saw only one thing not a man who is inviting non-muslims to Islam, but a person who wants to have more muslims or sunnis in his way of performing salah and more sunnis who will have beards and wear white robes and more women dressed in niqabs.
This man was interested only in numbers and not in Truth or quality of Faith. No one spoek to him. But for some reason he kept coming to me, asked me where in The Qur'an did Allah SWY say how much charity to give and when I told him about 2215, 219 and 6141, he kept asking where and how much. I repeated several more times the mentioned verses and even read them to him and showed them and he kept asking where and how much. I showed it to him and then he read it out loud and out of his mouth came this"Allah explains" and then he looked at me and said where?

He became angry, walked away and later I heard him that I should be killed. There were some cops there due to high numbers of the visitors but nothing evil happened, Thank God. Unlike few sundays ago when cops came and took a man for shouting something in Arabic.

Third the sunnis I met cannot go by The Qur'an alone. They have assured me that I will never understand The Qur'an without prophet Mohammad explainging it to me, guess where? Yes, "prophet's sunnah and hadeeth". Keep in mind that even though they send peace and blessings upon Mohammad and only upon Mohammad, they send it very fast, like it matters very little.

I am a writer and could write easily 100 pages regarding this matter but won't.

I didn't call muslims kaffiroon.
I didn't call a muslim a kaffir.
I can't. If I did, can you provide evidence, please?

I don't even hate nor call names, people who follow Rashad Khalifa and code19.
Why?
Because former followeras of RK and code19 is once again A Real, True Muslim.
He also introduced me to another Muslim, Thank God.

What if these sunnis that I meet, tomorrow or after some years, become muslims?
I use to be a sunni but then I started thinking outside the box, remember?
I cloned sunnis but then I stopped and now I have Guidance.

Be aware of God.
Peace.

Alen

Salam

Indeed. The pattern is that crazy extremists who call themselves Muslims freak out and kill people whenever they feel their religion is being insulted.

Sad and frightening. http//www.imagebanana.com/img/q6owvuis/033102bad_1_prv.gif

Peace,
Respect.

Truly frightening, sister.
I came clean shaven one day to Speaker's Corner one sunday and they guy started quoting only the hadeeth.
When I wanted to quote The Qur'an, he dismissed me.

This is why I keep saying that Qur'an should not be burned but studied even more and we must tlak to sunnis maybe more then with non-muslims because non-muslims accept Islam and The Qur'an despite terrorism and explosions and honor killings and suicide bombers but sunnis .... may God guide them all to Straigth Path. InshaAllah.

May God guide us all on The Straight Path and Help us all.
God bless you.
Peace.

Alen

I agree with Rajaah, Alen is very extreme in his words

Sunnis and Shias may not be follow the core of Islam, the Quran attentively, and instead favour innovations of traditions. But they're still partly muslims, just not completely on the straight path, just as a Quranist may not understand salat, so he is not perfect. We all have our faults.

Peace,
Respect.

Okay, are we discussing perfection of a muslim, perfection of a sunni, differences between sunnis and muslims or being partially this and that?
Let me know.

Peace.

Raaajah

Peace,
Respect.

Okay, are we discussing perfection of a muslim, perfection of a sunni, differences between sunnis and muslims or being partially this and that?
Let me know.

Alen,

Actually you were the one who started by calling them "Kaffirs".
We have to start from the house and try to make ourselves good examples by not calling others "Kaffirs" specially when we are not sure about ourselves.

Alen

I came clean shaven one day to Speaker's Corner one sunday and they guy started quoting only the hadeeth.
When I wanted to quote The Qur'an, he dismissed me.

and you dismissed him! game over? Is that the way you convince some one?
What Hadith he was quoting? about what? beard?
and what were you trying to quote from Quran ,about beard?

Ayisha

Ayisha
I know reality bites, but Alen or any one who calls other Muslim a Kaffir is an extremist.

see just how quickly that changed from what Alen DID actually say to what is now CLAIMED he said, and all that is in print and still managed to change within days.

@ Alen. I have also been threatened that I should be killed, if not on this forum then another forum BY someone who was on this forum. They know where to find me. I was told my neighbours would kill me or my husband should. My husband knows my views are different to his but he also knows my connection with Allah is mine, not his.

there are many like the man you saw, they collect numbers because they think they are collecting points, its all point based in sunni Islam, each Alhamdulillah is a point each inshaAllah is a point, each person you help towards Islam is a point. Oddly enough just being kind to ANYONE carries no points at all because you might be helping a non muslim. Killing a kafir is a point, killing a jew would carry lots of points I imagine, and praying each raka carries a point, they must have score cards somewhere ;D

All you can do is be who you are Alen and try as best as you can to put across what you have to say and don't allow them to intimidate you BUT if it is getting a safetly problem in Speakers Corner then don't go, do your dawah in other ways as you have been doing but in the back of your mind always keep that the hater of today may be next to you in prayer tomorrow and only Allah knows who is a Muslim or not, we have no idea and will not till we get there. peace

Raaajah

Ayisha

see just how quickly that changed from what Alen DID actually say to what is now CLAIMED he said, and all that is in print and still managed to change within days.

So why don't you dare quote him.

Raaajah

Alen

...I just say"Oh, well, don't worry, sunnis are not muslims", this sentecne alone sparks and starts a debate that lasts sometimes hours...

he said these words on 9/11 at 934 I think.

Ayisha

Ayisha
So why don't you dare quote him.

Dont need to, its all still there and just showing how quickly and easily that hadith has changed in few days when the evidence of what he did say is still there in front of you. peace

Ah and before I post this you have quoted alen, so lets see

Alen I just say"Oh, well, don't worry, sunnis are not muslims",

Raj I know reality bites, but Alen or any one who calls other Muslim a Kaffir is an extremist.

See the different WORDS Raj? Now as far as I'm aware Kafir means 'non believer' and as far as I'm aware jews and christians are believers but non muslims, sunni and shia are believers but not all these would be called 'muslims', you have changed the 'meaning' by changing the 'words' Alen used. I was just showing how quickly a hadith of one person can soon be changed by another even when the very words he said are still on these pages and the whole 'meaning' of what he said has changed.

I am not saying Alen is right, and he knows that, but Alen called no one Kafir.

george

I agree with Rajaah, Alen is very extreme in his words

Sunnis and Shias may not be follow the core of Islam, the Quran attentively, and instead favour innovations of traditions. But they're still partly muslims, just not completely on the straight path, just as a Quranist may not understand salat, so he is not perfect. We all have our faults.

How can you be partly muslim ??? either you are or you are'nt

One of the meanings of the word muslims is one peacefully submits himself to GODS will, which is something you can only do completely and not partly.

Knowingly dividing youselfs into sects (Sunni, Shias, Sufi's e.t.c), follwing hadiths outside the Quran (which allow stoning to death for apostacy, adultery but only for the woman, forced converstions, peadophila and all other kinds of extremist crap), all after GOD has specifically told us in the Quran not to do these things, is doing you own wish and not the will of GOD and therefore how can they muslims when they knowingly go against GODS instructions in the Quran???

You don't need to be perfect to follow the Quran ALONE.

It's only GOD who is perfect.

Alen

Alen,

Actually you were the one who started by calling them "Kaffirs".
We have to start from the house and try to make ourselves good examples by not calling others "Kaffirs" specially when we are not sure about ourselves.

Alen
and you dismissed him! game over? Is that the way you convince some one?
What Hadith he was quoting? about what? beard?
and what were you trying to quote from Quran ,about beard?

Peace,
Respect.

Excuse me, but you made several mistakes here.

Whom did I call a kaffir? Provide quote please.
Whom did I dismiss? Read my post again, he dismissed me.
Did I ever say my job is to convince someone/anyone into anything/something?
The guy I spoke to about the beard was another guy and he quoted hadeeth in Arabic, assuming I knew Arabic. That is how they start, if they see that you don't speak Arabic, they "win" the debate by proclaiming that you don't understand Qur'an and decalre themselves as winners.
I have learned something new about beard last saturday. Friend of mine and a brother quoted the verse where prophet/messenger Moses returned with the Tablets with The Ten Commandments and saw that the people made a golden calf and grabbed his brother by the beard, yes? My friend pointed out that if the beard was so special, holy or whatever, then it would be treated like that but Moses was never repriminded for grabbing his brother by the beard and beard in that case is treated as I treat it - facial hair.

I'm not against you but if you're gonna quote me, quote me correctly, please and don't just assume.
We should be uniting and not throwing logs into each other.
I don't hate the sunnis I met, I want them to pray along side with me, with us and not commit idol-worship.
This is why I accepted the challenge from another sunni, last sunday, where he invited me to show him the prayer described in The Qur'an.

So, if you want, you can come and join me, you're all welcome.
I know that many of you don't live in UK or London but you're welcome to come

Speaker's Corner is at the Marble Arch area, where Oxford Street meets Edgeware Road.
There is a green square with a black cube emerging from the ground and on top of it is a gian, horse's head.
Every sunday, starting at 1100 a.m., people gather at the Speaker's Corner to preach, talk, met, hang out.

This is Mohammad Dawood, good guy and very friendly, Thank God. He's from Bronx.
http//www.englandtravelpictures.com/England-travel-London-speakers-corner-islam-lecture-James-M-Thorne.jpg

God bless you.
Peace.

Alen

Peace,
Respect.

Sister Ayisha is right, I never called them kaffiroon or kaffirs and when it comes to these labels/titles, I'm also being careful.
I would like to suggest that this topic has the wrong title in my name and regarding sunnis, shias and muslims, I will continue under appropriate thread, God willing.

Peace.

Raaajah

This will be my last post on the subject as you rightly indicated we are moving away from the thread's title.

I will like to start with the quote of Ayisha

I am not saying Alen is right, and he knows that, but Alen called no one Kafir.

Now I will show you what you really meant

Alen

When Rashad Khalifa called sunnah and hadeeth satanic innovations, he was actually right about that.

Wahabis mean business. Evil business.

sunnah and hadeeth are not Islamic and are totally against The Qur'an.

I'd compare hadeeth to Qur'an and show the non-muslims why I am a mulsim and sunnis aren't.

Alen

There were cases where christians have actually asked me if beard is compulsory (I shave) and I'd tell them that beards are not even Islamic nor Quranic let alone obligatory. Then the eyebrows react, they go silent and debate begins. Believe me, true conversation is open, Thank God and violence is never on anyone's mind. We talk like brothers and I also believe it would accelerate the process of Truth being increased, God willing.

The above quotes about Sunnis and Christians makes clear what he thinks about both

Christians as brothers, who are ranked highest in promoting Shirk
Sunnis as Non-Muslims, who believe in Muhammad peace is upon him and Quran.

Therefore it is very clear when you call Sunnis Non Muslims you are not referring to them as Ahle-Kitab, you are referring to them as Kaffirs. When you refer to Ahle-Kitab you refer to them as "Brothers" and when you refer to Sunni's you refer to them as "followers of Satan" as quoted above.

and now which makes it very clear what you think of them
Alen

This is why I keep saying that Qur'an should not be burned but studied even more and we must tlak to sunnis maybe more then with non-muslims because non-muslims accept Islam and The Qur'an despite terrorism and explosions and honor killings and suicide bombers but sunnis

See it is quite clear, Sunni's are different from NON-Muslims in your eyes. Non Muslims are better then Sunni's and you have given reasons for that.

If you would have just committed your mistake, instead retaliating after being pumped up by Ayisha it would have just increased your credibility.

Thanks.

Ayisha

Now I will show you what you really meant

I do NOT need you to tell me what I really meant, please refrain from taking it upon yourself to do that again, I meant what I said and what I said was right whether you like that or not! For you to then search for quotes and put them together like that shows what you really meant and that you did not like being exposed yet again for twisting what someone had said.

Raaajah

Ayisha

I do NOT need you to tell me what I really meant,

After quoting you, I was addressing Alen. may be there was a misunderstanding, a mistake on my part.

Ayisha

Ayisha
After quoting you, I was addressing Alen. may be there was a misunderstanding, a mistake on my part.

Yes I read it again after and I wasn't sure then who you were referring to peace

umzy01

i dont understand how this thread about people wronging Islam has turned in to muslims arguing and fighting with each other. words like extremist are thrown in to our everyday lives to give muslims a bad name we really should refrain from using it so loosely and its none of our place to say whos muslim or not. If someone calls them self one only God can be the judge of that.

Humilities bad nature of dividing is creeping in to our 'non sectarian' way of life....How ironic.