Is ZANIA and ZANI about prostitution or adultery ?

loxbox13

Is ZANIA and ZANI about prostitution or adultery ?
because i see when Allah talks about wives or husbunds commits an adultery is called FAHISHA , and there is even a verse that if your wife comes with fahisha u need 4 witnesses and keep her confined ( home or jail ) and i believe it's vice versa for men

For young people who are not married , I believe there is no punishement for sex except from Allah, for the verse of Khitbat Nisaa allah say , talk to them correct because Allah see what u do !!!!

MAin point is , i think Zania and Zani are the prostitute and it's client or the pimp !!!
Can anyone clear it up

Wakas

It would help if you could provide the verses you are referring to, and what you are deducing from them.

Leyna

For young people who are not married , I believe there is no punishement for sex except from Allah

What about older people who are not married? hmm

Nafi

What about older people who are not married? hmm

old people have sex??? yuck

Obour

in my opinion Zina only happens between a Married woman and a man (doesn't matter married or not). one part should be a married woman unless its not zina, for example a relations between a married man and a single woman is not Zina.
and where I get such condition? hmm from reading these verses

And those who accuse the independent females, then they do not bring forth four witnesses, you shall lash them with eighty lashes, and do not accept their testimony ever; and those are the wicked. * And those (men) who accuse their spouses, but they have no witnesses except for themselves, then the testimony of one of them is to be equivalent to that of four witnesses if it is sworn by God that he is being truthful. * And the fifth shall be the curse of God upon him if he is of the liars. * And the punishment will be averted from her if she bears witness four times by God that he is of the liars. * And the fifth shall be the curse of God upon her if he is speaking the truth. (244-9)

there is no mention of accusing men even from their spouses, and accusing an unmarried women (accuse only mentioned for Mohassenat not for Nessah). what do you think?

loxbox13

{ }
The woman and the man (guilty of adultery or fornication ) flog each of them with a hundred stripes let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. 242

The expression Zani or Zaniya , sounds in the verse as a caracteristic of a person for Zina,

Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry any but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

Here it says a believer cannot marry a ZANIA and a believer woman cannot mary a ZANI , meaning zani and zaniya sounds more to me like the prostitute and her client or pimp

And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegation) flog them with eighty stripes and reject their evidence ever after for such men are wicked transgressors 244

Now it tals about Mohssanates, chaste women accused of prostitution

Sounds to me this sourah is a ligislation about prostitution, and pimps, and accusing chaste women of prostitution etc....
and then in verse 5 , legislation about married women accused of prostitution or adultery

If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way. 415

there verse for adultery, clear in this verse there is no lashes no nothing

There is no blame on you if ye make an indirect offer of betrothal or hold it in your hearts. Allah knows that ye cherish them in your hearts but do not make a secret contract with them except that you speak to them in terms honourable, nor resolve on the tie of marriage till the term prescribed is fulfilled. And know that Allah knoweth what is in your hearts, and take heed of Him; and know that Allah is Oft Forgiving Most Forbearing. 2235
There is no punishement for unmarried couple except Allah says if u like the women talk to them correctly;, and speaks of no punishement except that allah sees what u do

In this verse it talk about knowing a woman , with intention honest, girfriend that u want to marry, and it talks about if u do something in secret, allah does see !! no punishement or nothing, except that allah sees, so he will punish u

These made me feel like the word ZANIA means the prostitute, and the ZANI is the client or the pimp, I might be wrong, but i don't trust sunni explanation who went for stoning,
is this enaugh Mr Wakas to understand what I am meaning? LOL cool , thank u if u clear it up

Wakas

I'm sorry, I do not understand how you deduced what you did.

loxbox13

I'm sorry, I do not understand how you deduced what you did.

The think is this, why Zania cannot get maried only to Zani ? ou moushrik and vice versa !

Does Zania means it'a a woman prostitute ?

For allah for Adultery calls it Fahisha

Or is it the same, just the wording is differtn ?

Obour

I think for prostitution we have Beqah (&#1616 look in these verses (2433), (1920), (192

http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/24_33.png
various translations of this verse

http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/19_20.png
various translations of this verse

http//www.everyayah.com/data/images_png/19_28.png
various translations of this verse

adultery is
voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.
according to definition in adultery one part should be a married person.
my definition for Zina is
voluntary sexual intercourse between a married women and someone other than her lawful spouse.
and there should be 4 witness for punishment to take place.

mmkhan

Salaam,

in my opinion Zina only happens between a Married woman and a man (doesn't matter married or not). one part should be a married woman unless its not zina, for example a relations between a married man and a single woman is not Zina.
and where I get such condition? hmm from reading these verses

And those who accuse the independent females, then they do not bring forth four witnesses, you shall lash them with eighty lashes, and do not accept their testimony ever; and those are the wicked. * And those (men) who accuse their spouses, but they have no witnesses except for themselves, then the testimony of one of them is to be equivalent to that of four witnesses if it is sworn by God that he is being truthful. * And the fifth shall be the curse of God upon him if he is of the liars. * And the punishment will be averted from her if she bears witness four times by God that he is of the liars. * And the fifth shall be the curse of God upon her if he is speaking the truth. (244-9)

there is no mention of accusing men even from their spouses, and accusing an unmarried women (accuse only mentioned for Mohassenat not for Nessah). what do you think?

AlMohsanaat does not mean Individual females. Please look at the usage of this word to get the exact meaning.

2179
2180
2179 So We gave Solomon the correct understanding, and both of them We have given wisdom and knowledge. And We commissioned the mountains with David to praise, and the birds. This is what We did.
2180 And We taught him the making of armor for you to protect you from your enemy. Are you then thankful?

I understand 244 as "Those who accuse THE PROTECTED females......"

May Allah increase in our knowledge.
Mohammed M. Khan

mmkhan

Salaaman bro,

{ }
The woman and the man (guilty of adultery or fornication ) flog each of them with a hundred stripes let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment. 242

There is no punishement for unmarried couple except Allah says if u like the women talk to them correctly;, and speaks of no punishement except that allah sees what u do

If an unmarried or married, male or female, whoever commits Zina falls under the category of 242

Brother, will you please explain what you understand by Zina and Fahesh? And how?

Thanks in advance.

May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan

loxbox13

Salaaman bro,

If an unmarried or married, male or female, whoever commits Zina falls under the category of 242

Brother, will you please explain what you understand by Zina and Fahesh? And how?

Thanks in advance.

May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan

I been told That Zani and Zania are jobs, Prostitution, the rest like adultery is Fahisha

unknownuser

Peace,

I been told That Zani and Zania are jobs, Prostitution, the rest like adultery is Fahisha

1732 And not go near l-zin indeed it is fishatan and evil way.

al-zniyatu wal-zn similar phrase as female and male to borrow a slang from the urban dictionary.

http//www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=he-ho&defid=1969532

Therefore are for each other...

243 al-zn not marry only zniyatan...

foralgerian

Hi
I read this verse several times, and in my opinion so far as I understand it, the topic here is more about the protection of women in general against slander.
and Zani and Zania are actually people who are committing the slander.
By propagating falsehood regarding women.

Regards

unknownuser

Hi
I read this verse several times, and in my opinion so far as I understand it, the topic here is more about the protection of women in general against slander.
and Zani and Zania are actually people who are committing the slander.
By propagating falsehood regarding women.

Regards

Hi -- the next verse talks about them which they get 80 instead of 100 ...

244
And those who accuse the chaste women, furthermore not they bring four witnesses,
so flog them eighty lashe(s) and not accept their testimony ever...

Fahad1

in my opinion Zina only happens between a Married woman and a man (doesn't matter married or not). one part should be a married woman unless its not zina, for example a relations between a married man and a single woman is not Zina.

......

there is no mention of accusing men even from their spouses, and accusing an unmarried women (accuse only mentioned for Mohassenat not for Nessah). what do you think?

Thats right. The punishment for zina is for three categories of women(who commit zina) (and for their male accomplices).

azwaaj (24/6)
al-muhsanaat (24/4)
fatayaat. (4/25)

All three types of women can be considered "married", al-muhsanaat and fatayat being from the MMA/Milke-Ayman category which is also allowed for a man alongside the azwaaj category.

If any of these "married" women have extra martial relations with a man, whether he is married or unmarried, it is called zina/fahisha.

Fahad1

And therefore zina is essentially polyandry. So is prostitution.

Bob

This is just a response to share my understanding. This is not an attempt to convince anyone. No one has final authority over the Quranic words. Those who are satisfied with what knowledge they have, I envy... Those who want to learn more and see things from another angle, I am amongst you.

To understand Zina we must examine ?Fahshah?.

Fa-Ha-Shin = became excessive/immoderate/enormous/exorbitant/overmuch/beyond measure, foul/bad/evil/unseemly/indecency/abominable, lewd/gross/obscene, committing excess which is forbidden, transgress the bounds/limits, avaricious, adultery/fornication.(project root list)

?720

Then Satan deceived them in order to reveal their imperfections and fallibility to them....?

That is, Satan misled them so that their (human) errors became visible.

?722

So by deceit Satan brought about their downfall. They tasted of the tree of discord and started to divide into branches. Soon their imperfections became obvious and they tried to conceal them in vain with superficial courtesy. Then came a Reminder from their Lord, ?Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you that Satan is your open enemy??

Here the words waraqi aljannati? are mentioned... what is it referring to? Is Warqai Al-Jannah the green leaves from Paradise as mullahs argue, or is it the message of Allah that leads to Jannah; namely, Allah's commands? No, I do not think this is reference to the ?green leaves? from Paradise.

-When they realised they had made mistakes, they prayed for forgiveness (to reform)

723 They said, ?Our Lord! We have wronged ourselves. Unless You forgive us and have Mercy on us, we will certainly be lost.?

To reform, they have waraqi al jannah which will guide them and they will have LIBAS AL TAQWAH

O Children of Adam! We have provided you with garments to cover your bodies as well as to adorn you. The best garment for you to wear, in addition, is good conduct. (Your character decorates you inside out.) These are the verses of God that they must take to heart.?

It is not a question of attire, but a "libaas" that embraces and develops the person to new heights. It is a ?Libas? which through warq al jannah helps one to achieve taqwah and become muttaqi.

People may can believe that this is really green leaves from paradise as they hid behind, because they were naked and needed new clothes.
But I do not think it's about clothes just because the word libas is used. Here, ?libas al taqwah? means to prevent crime to flourish in society and the individual... we are reminded of this through warq al jannah (Allah's words, the decree).

let us continue .727

O Children of Adam! Let not your selfish desire deceive you as it deceived your ancestors, caused them to lose their Paradise, and exposed their imperfections. A host of selfish and rebellious desires lurk within you. You can?t even see them but these Satans see you and befriend those who do not believe.

Satan misled them and they lost libas al taqwah; they lost paradise (which can only be attained with warq al-jannah ? Allah?s decrees), and their imperfections were overexposed.

But this is a bit special 728

(As an example) when people commit an indecency they say, ?We found our forefathers doing it and God has enjoined it upon us.? (Made it natural for us). Say (O Prophet), ?God never enjoins indecency. Do you attribute to God that of which you have no knowledge??

Here it is said that the ?ancestors? were committing ?Fahshah?, and they claimed this to be from God.

For arguments sake, let?s say ?Fahsha? means sex outside of marriage... have you ever heard people argue that prostitution and indecency is something that has been practiced for centuries by their ancestors? In addition, there are not many who claim this is from God.

Hindus and Jews, for example, are not allowed to have sex outside of marriage either.

People have tried to emphasise that their ancestors have done it and so it is natural for them. What have the prophets taught time and time again? The prophets have said that second-rate, man-made rules / laws should not be embraced / followed.

The perverse, mullahs / rabies preach that ?Fahshah? is all about sex, beer, adultery and therefore believe that for humans these are the worst or the only crime / sins one can commit .

But the Koran and Allah's words were not revealed to teach man not to have sex out of wedlock because the consequence is 100 lashes. The Quran was sent to us for much more than a limited category of guidance. The Quran was sent to introduce human rights and the socio-economic system that contains all permanent values.

In 728 Allah says - ?God never enjoins indecency(Fahsha). Do you attribute to God that of which you have no knowledge??

i.e. Allah does not decree orders of that nature... if such orders are not from Allah, what are Allah?s orders ? If ?fahshah? is sex out of wedlock, then the order would be, ?do not have sex out of wedlock?. It is written that it is not from God, then what is from God ? The opposite of Fahshah is from God.

As a response those who claim fahsha to be Allahs order, Allah says what he commands

729 Say (O Messenger), ?My Lord enjoins justice and moderation and to stand devoted to Him alone in complete obedience. Call unto Him, sincere in your Faith in Him alone. He it is Who brought you into being in the first place, and to Him you will return.? (And this is how you can regain your lost Paradise in both worlds.)

If Fahshah were to mean sex out of wedlock, Allah would have said ?No I have not ordered to have sex out of wedlock. I have even said that he who has sex outside of marriage should be beaten so the entire population can see it.

However, this is not what Allah has said, he states something completely different!

? That he is ?JUST? ? he provides commands of justice, whoever is to follow his laws and commands should do so to the full.

? To follow him (and not fahshah) to follow all laws made by him.

? To invite to his Deen, with Sincerity.

? If an individual is a Muslim to begin with, but is misled by Satan, obviously he will walk away from Allah?s teachings. However, he will return to the correct path he once followed.

Allah explains what is forbidden for us and then provides an order such for it, such as ?do not commit ?Fahshah? and then the order will come as ?stand devoted to him alone in complete obedience?.

730

But there will be two parties among people. Some of them will live upright according to the Divine Laws of Guidance while others will ally with Satans as their friends. They take their religious leadership as their masters instead of God, and think that they are rightly guided.

Here you can see for yourself, two paths, but who is guided?

? Those who respond to Allah's laws (this includes EVERYTHING, not just those who do not have sex outside of marriage)

? Those who follow Satan - and do not follow Allah's commands (not just fornication)

So far, one can see that the whole doctrine is to follow Allah's commands / words. This will give us libas al taqwah.

Those who follow Satan, they commit ?Fahshah? (ALL that is outside the Quran). The following of man-made rules which are claimed to be ?Islamic? is referred to as ?Fahsah?. Warq al jannah is what precludes people from crime / bad actions, and Satan seizes ?Libas Al Taqwah.

What is ZEENAT (Beauty)?

730-31

O Children of Adam! Subservience and obedience to the Divine Commands ensures for you adornment and nice things in life. So enjoy God?s Bounties, but do not commit excesses. God does not love the wasters.

Say, ?Who has forbidden the beauty and nice things God has brought forth for His servants, and the pure clean things of your choice?? Say, ?Such things are for those in this world who believe in the Divine Laws. And on the Day of Resurrection they will be exclusively for those who attained Conviction.? We thus explain Our Laws for those who make good use of what they learn?.

If these Ayats were about pretty, expensive clothes and jewellery, then this is only for a certain type of people, namely the rich. But Allah's word is for all; his commands are for everyone to comply. Therefore Zeenat of mankind are the divine commands / Ehkaam.

Here you can see what fahsha is

733

Say, ?My Lord forbids ONLY (INNAMA ) Indecent shameful deeds, open or secret, actions that hurt the ?self? and drag down the individual and collective human potential, unjust aggression, associating others with God (Shirk) for which He has sent down no Authority, and that you say things about God that do not know.?

Here the word INNAMA (ONLY) is used, i.e. if fahsha is ?fornication?, then this would mean that only fornication is forbidden. In other words, God has only forbidden sex and drugs, but one can follow any other rules - one can?t have sex outside wedlock, but one can do everything else.

Surat Noor 2-3 ?fajildo? is translated to "whip" on their skin

?Jild? has a root ?jeem-Laam-Daal?. Other words that are derived from this root are jild and mujild. ?jild? means something that protects / safeguards. That is why skin is called ?Jild? because it protects against the outside.

Mujild Kitab = a book that has a cover (which protects the sheets inside so they are not demolished)

The word mi-ata = has been translated into hundreds... which in reality means "very much". The number 100 is used because ?100? is considered to be ?very much?.

If one looks at Edward william lanes explanation, you will see that ?Zina? does not only mean ?fornication?, but it has alternative meanings too.

Zina Zay-Ya-Nun = to mount, the mounting upon a thing, to commit fornication / adultery, fornicator / adulterer. (For further information please refer to http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm )

Similary,the english word adultary adultery
"voluntary violation of the marriage bed," c.1300, avoutrie, from O.Fr. avoutrie, aoulterie, noun of condition from avoutre/aoutre, from L. adulterare "to corrupt" (see adulteration). Modern spelling, with the re-inserted -d-, is from early 15c. (see ad-). Classified as single adultery (with an unmarried person) and double adultery (with a married person). O.E. word was ?wbryce "breach of law(ful marriage)." Adultery Dune in Arizona corresponds to Navajo sei adilehe "adultery sand" and was where illicit lovers met privately.
http//www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=adultery

It?s astonishing that one does not utilise ones intelligence, instead, assumes the most suited choice of translation for ?Zina? is sex out of wedlock! But of course, it's all about food, drink and sex.

A friend said ?With Zina, the mental sickness that feeds this act cannot be removed by doing nothing or cutting the male appendage off!

?If two people have sex outside marriage, Allah has provided a punishment that will cure their "mental sickness" ?

Couples all over the world choose to live together out of wedlock... Does this mean they are suffering from a form of mental ?Sickness? ? I presume, everyone should be whipped in order for them to change their behaviour?

Do you really think that 100 lashes will help against "mental illness"?

Bani adam is subject libas al taqwah to protect them from bad things

726

What is Zinah?

Here we are talking about people who change the Qur'anic message due to naivety and give false statements. It is in fact encouraged to restrain people from doing such things. If there are people with little knowledge who commit Zina, they require a certain type of rehabilitation ? to make them aware of what they are doing, so they stop. If there are powerful people who intentionally try and change the Quran, they require an intense program of therapy and fortification so that they realise they are doing wrong and change their intention, understanding and wisdom. (Miata, 100)

Fahsah is that which sets aside God's word and then is argued it is from Allah. Fahshah provides a independency from the Quran that misleads the people ? it takes people away from waraqi al jannah (Allah?s commands).

To equate the rules of Allah's (in all forms) is shirk...To Follow anything outside of Divine message is Fahshah. Fahshah is not limited to sexual activities outside marriage.

Therefore, Zina and shirk are on the same line and have been given the same status. Shirk is setting up rules and laws in par with Allah's commands,make ppl follow their manmade rules, while Zina is to destroy(corrupt,distort)the given message of Allah's commands.

If you continue to believe that there is only talk about sex, you have the right to do so. But if you think that 100 lashes should guide those who want to have sex outside of marriage, you?re clearly wrong. Would anyone of us whip our daughters in public, completely humiliating her and ourselves? How about our sons? Those who practice such things are clearly suffering from a form of mental illness!

Remember that I am not saying that looseness is a good thing; I know very well that you should be Chaste. However, I know that without being whipped in front of people!!!!!

Zina in ayaat Noor is being understood as follows

Anyone who builds on top of the Message of Allah (destroys the Quranic message), must be very intense, a method of major fortification will be needed to rescue someone from such actions.

In the case of Allah's Deen, there is no compromise. If you are ?Ahl AMN? and you remain ?Ahl AMN? under all circumstance, then the Zani who distort the Quranic message, must be under the supervision of the ?Ahl AMN? who provide an intense amount of fortification and protection (for rehabilitation purposes).

Like the ?Jild? protects everything from the outside, just like this, the Islamic state would provide a program (of protection/) for the Zani.

The reason for that is once a zani (one who tries to change the Quranic message) gets the chance, he will spend time with peers of the same thought or calibre.

Now, who are on par with the Zani i.e. those that will change the Qur'anic message?

It is zani's and the ?Mushriks? as they share the same intent and have the same goals. The mushriks provide their own rules and try to influence the Qur'an or equalize their own ideas and rules of the Qur'an.i.e. Zania will meet and keep company with those that have something in common with her.

That is why a mushrik and zani is plased on the same ?muqaam/Status?
.

from Dr Qamar Zaman's article,Fahsha in the Quran.

loxbox13

...

Thank u for the efforts and thank u for sharing all this, i had a feeling that zania is not adultery, but something else, and than it sounded more like slanderer, but the way u put it with mushriks makes perfect sense tio me, but one thing i couldn't grasp, the 100lashes, the real meaning , not the hidden meaning, because it is a law so it has to be from ayat muhlamat.

huruf

Salaam and thank you for efforts to throw light on this matter that for a number of people always raises up questions.

Two immediate points occur to me as upholding of an understanding of those ayas of 24 as related to socially correct sexual relationships

there is the question of an accusing husband. There is the question of people accusing women of such things. There are many ayas en the sura revolving around the accusations against women of such thing. Accusations of indecency or adultery against men have never been such a great deal. Depending on circumstances and settings, may have been unpleasant and unwelcome, but not tragedies and in Europe for a long time male adultery was no crime, but female adultery was. For women mostly all along history such accusations have been social murder and even invitation to real murder or sanction of real murder. Quran talks in the sura about a real happening of such kind and how people, even converted, suposedly sincere muslims gave in to evil talk, of who? obviously of women not of men. What could it be? Theft? Money laundering? Slander? Not slander since it is specifically addressed and it is about it that revolves the sura. And it is precisely the penalty for slander that is set at 80 lashes or whatever, but eighty, which gives rise to my other question. If there is 80 lahes for slander, can we still uphold hat mi'a lashes for the zani and the zaniya are just an unspecified number or quantity?

I do not feel that An-nur focuses specificically on sex, but on social mores and attitudes and on ferocity against women regarding those mores and on the burdenning of women with that kind of servitude in exclusivity with no liberation in sight. It lifts the burden off women having to prove they are "virtuous" and places it on people to prove they are not and does it practically obliging to public indecency in order for the people to be able to open their mouths and obliges to indict the males as well, "al zani wa al zaniya", as joint authors. To wit, it obliges people to JUSTICE and to abandon oppression of a part of the members of society. It is not the Quran that places so much acount on sex or sexual indecency, but people, who use sex or sexual indecency to opress half the members os society. What the Quran doesn't do is proclaim that sexual mores do not matter, and let everybody do anything they please because that doesn't matter and anything goes. And they way out of not opressing one sex on account of sexual conduct is either the one chosen in the Quran or the "anything goes".

The pointedness of it all is seen in the fact that in spite of the clarity of the wording and intention expressed in the sura, still it is put aside in order to continue doing the same thing it tried to avoid, the ferocity against women and the instrumentation of social mores and values to her exclusive detriment.

I have also some question regarding the stripes and whether it is lashes or stripes or whatever that is meant. But on the general meaning of zani and zaniya I think that the whole seems to uphold the understanding of breach of social mores.

This is my initial take on this thread, and of course, no claim to absolute truth.

Salaam