Is ZANIA and ZANI about prostitution or adultery ?
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Dig this. She beat him up right.
http//dumpalink.com/videos/This-Guy-got-Caught-Cheating-on-his-Girl-6fd7.html rotfl
yay yay yay lol THATS excately what should happen with men who cheat on their girlfriends.. these pigs only understand this language bravo bravo bravo bravo
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I was in an marriage that was 10 yrs plus 4 yr dating. He had affairs.. I can not EXPRESS the hurt and pain. Never could I trust him again, looking at him made me want to vomit. He was my first, so it hurt even more. It tore my family apart and my children landed in therapy. One day we were laughing in the car. The next night he came home to ALL his stuff thrown out in the middle of the yard. He denied everything, but I am not stupid, I talked to the people he cheated with. Imagine the embassament of getting an AIDS Test and STD test and explaining the situation, which was more than a "normal" affairs. Besides, pictures speak a thousand words, they also hold up in court!
Having the one you love and trust with another is so painful. Hence why almost did not come into islam due to Polygamy. I knew I would kill someone. Him having a second wife is still equal to an affair to me, just worse because I KNOW what you are doing with her. I would go insane, I can't ever let myself experience that pain again. I promised myself for it was almost the end of me. As a Muslim female, I just thought I would never be able to put my gaurd down, always being nervous if he was thinking of another or wanted another wife or MMA.
It took me FOREVER to trust the male gender, and Islam does not make it easy to trust the man with all their free reign of sex (in some sunni's versions of islam). Maybe it is my fault for veiwing intamacy as a very sacred thing, which is why I waited till I was married. You don't feel it is so sacred and worth waiting for when this happens.
If a man can't stand his wife with another, what makes him think she can stand to see him with another? Don't they say a women is more emotional than a man?
Sorry guys.
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I was in an marriage that was 10 yrs plus 4 yr dating. He had affairs.. I can not EXPRESS the hurt and pain. Never could I trust him again, looking at him made me want to vomit. He was my first, so it hurt even more. It tore my family apart and my children landed in therapy. One day we were laughing in the car. The next night he came home to ALL his stuff thrown out in the middle of the yard. He denied everything, but I am not stupid, I talked to the people he cheated with. Imagine the embassament of getting an AIDS Test and STD test and explaining the situation, which was more than a "normal" affairs. Besides, pictures speak a thousand words, they also hold up in court!
Having the one you love and trust with another is so painful. Hence why almost did not come into islam due to Polygamy. I knew I would kill someone. Him having a second wife is still equal to an affair to me, just worse because I KNOW what you are doing with her. I would go insane, I can't ever let myself experience that pain again. I promised myself for it was almost the end of me. As a Muslim female, I just thought I would never be able to put my gaurd down, always being nervous if he was thinking of another or wanted another wife or MMA.
It took me FOREVER to trust the male gender, and Islam does not make it easy to trust the man with all their free reign of sex (in some sunni's versions of islam). Maybe it is my fault for veiwing intamacy as a very sacred thing, which is why I waited till I was married. You don't feel it is so sacred and worth waiting for when this happens.
If a man can't stand his wife with another, what makes him think she can stand to see him with another? Don't they say a women is more emotional than a man?
Sorry guys.
I share your same view except for the killing part.lol. I personally would not like having a spouse who has another husband. In any case I do not believe that polygamy is a necessary practice for males today since women are considered equals to males (when compared to the past this wasn't so). Today women (with children) are quite capable of taking care of themselves without being discriminated by society. The survival of women and children was the main reason why God allowed Polygamy in the first place. It was not meant to satisfy mens appetites but it was meant to be used to protect widows with children from poverty and death. Woman with children back then could not have survived ( or fully operate freely) in a society where they were constantly discriminated against. So in order to protect the women and children, polygamy was allowed.
At present there are many ways that a believing male can provide for widows with children without having to marry them. Polygamy is not needed anymore. This is an extinct practice that is not necessary in a society that respects women and treats them as equals.
Most "muslims" (especially among the Sunnis),abuse polygamy. Polygamy is not meant to be used for a man to have multiple sex partners. It is used to protect widows and fatherless orphans from poverty and death in an environment where women are discriminated against
42 Give the orphans their money; do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money to your money, for truly it is a great sin!
43 If you fear that you cannot be just to fatherless orphans, then marry those whom you see fit from the women, two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair then only one, or whom you already have contract with. So that you do not commit injustice and suffer hardship.
Polygamy is not needed any more since there are many ways to provide for orphans and women without resorting to marriage.
Peace,
Kevin.
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Kevin, I agree with you 100%. There was a time and place for it.
But did mean kill, well ok, serious a$$ whooping then, how is that?
Not a serious a$$ whooping nope . It has to be a gentle one . Believers are suppose to set examples for others to follow so a gentle a$$ whooping is more acceptable than a serious one.lol.
Peace,
Kevin
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Addition to last post
God has already given the punishment for adultery...
242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system if you acknowledge God and the Last Day. Let a group of the acknowledgers witness their punishment.
In a Monotheistic society (that follows the Quran) the above punishment is sufficient to punish the adulterer. As difficult as it may be for spouses of adulterers to withhold there anger it is more prudent in the long run that they exercise piety and uphold the rules that God has given us. Yes , I would like to see my adulterous spouse get more than 100 lashes (more like 1000 + ) but not at the expense of disobeying God. This life is temporary. Anything that the righteous lose in this life they will get back seven fold and more in the hereafter.
Peace,
Kevin.
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Addition to last post
God has already given the punishment for adultery...
242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system if you acknowledge God and the Last Day. Let a group of the acknowledgers witness their punishment.
In a Monotheistic society (that follows the Quran) the above punishment is sufficient to punish the adulterer. As difficult as it may be for spouses of adulterers to withhold there anger it is more prudent in the long run that they exercise piety and uphold the rules that God has given us. Yes , I would like to see my adulterous spouse get more than 100 lashes (more like 1000 + ) but not at the expense of disobeying God. This life is temporary. Anything that the righteous lose in this life they will get back seven fold and more in the hereafter.
Peace,
Kevin.
That punishment mentioned in the Koran was not intended on adulterers as much as it was for slanderers. In Arab society, accusation of adultery against a wife usually means death by her own family. They call it honor killing and it is the standard practice in nearly all Arab societies. Notice the verse focussed on slandering women. Even if the husband accuses his spouse he needs to swear and she swears and most people will lie when faced with lashing. Only a strong person can handle this.
In the Koran we have Moses telling his people to kill themselves after their worshipping of the calf. Yet God forgave them because who can kill himself. Sometimes punishments are made to send a message but are not a practical means of applying law. Adultery can mean many things, break down in communication, bad habits in the past, unhappiness, and also lack of integrity. People cheat for many reasons. This reuqires a specialits or a family therapist or something. Lashing won't do much in any case since even after the punishment the issue will not go away.
A person needs four witnesses or else he can get flogged. Its made in such a way to scare people from talking about something like this even if he actually saw something.
Lashing is intense pain but it does not substitute for adultery. Adultery is not just a day or two of pain, its much more long lasting. It also a home breaker and leads to violence in most cases, especially when the woman cheats.
2.54. And remember Moses said to his people "O my people! Ye have indeed wronged yourselves by your worship of the calf So turn (in repentance) to your Maker, and slay yourselves ; that will be better for you in the sight of your Maker." Then He turned towards you (in forgiveness) For He is Oft- Returning, Most Merciful.
4.153. The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority.
Moses spelled the proper punishment but not all punishments are made to be apllied by people. Humans are weak.
We know that in the Gospel, Judas took his life after realizing his mistake in betraying Jesus and diobeying him. Judas never intended it to go this far but he trusted the Pharisees. After realizing his mistake he did the right thing and hanged himself. But Judas had the strength to do that. Most people can not kill themselves even if they wanted to. And most people will lie when facing a whip, even if they don't want to lie. ts human nature to run away from pain. Like the people who jumped out of the WTC when faced with fire and heat.
In case of adultery than the verse about an arbitrer to settle a dispute is more useful.
My two cents.
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That punishment mentioned in the Koran was not intended on adulterers as much as it was for slanderers. In Arab society, accusation of adultery against a wife usually means death by her own family. They call it honor killing and it is the standard practice in nearly all Arab societies. Notice the verse focussed on slandering women. Even if the husband accuses his spouse he needs to swear and she swears and most people will lie when faced with lashing. Only a strong person can handle this.
I really don?t care what is customary in Arab Society, killing yourselves is forbidden in the Quran.
In the Koran we have Moses telling his people to kill themselves after their worshipping of the calf. Yet God forgave them because who can kill himself. Sometimes punishments are made to send a message but are not a practical means of applying law. Adultery can mean many things, break down in communication, bad habits in the past, unhappiness, and also lack of integrity. People cheat for many reasons. This reuqires a specialits or a family therapist or something. Lashing won't do much in any case since even after the punishment the issue will not go away.
This is not true. No prophet will ever tell anyone to kill themselves!!!!! Please do not try to compare Moses to Jim Jones!!! It?s insulting!!!! Killing yourselves is forbidden!!
429 O you who acknowledge, do not consume your money between you unjustly, except through a trade, which is mutually agreed by you. Do not kill yourselves; God is Compassionate towards you.
254 Moses said to his people, "O my people, you have wronged yourselves by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and face yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Compassionate."
Moses was telling the people to KILL THEIR EGOS and not themselves. Killing your ego is a path that leads to righteousness.
In addition 242 is a practical law. THE QURAN IS CLEAR.
242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system if you acknowledge God and the Last Day. Let a group of the acknowledgers witness their punishment.
Any person who says otherwise is either misinterpreting the Quran or twisting the scripture to suit there own benefit. In an Monotheistic society that follows the Quran alone if four witnesses witness an adulteress act and then accuses someone of adultery then it binding upon the believers to administer this punishment. Now we all know that most governments will not allow us to implement a punishment like this. However I do believe they will be a time in the future where God laws can be implemented without the fear of repercussions. Till then we must use other measures. However just because we can't implement a punishment doesn't mean that it is forbidden. God?s law is clear. When the time comes God's law will be implemented without fear and repercussions.
Peace,
Kevin
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Goodmorning all
I have been thinking about this alot lately, mainly because I have four kids and one day when they reach puberty I have to make a choice how to approach their raging hormones.
The Quran teaches us to investigate, never forget our curiousity and obligation to seek the truth. If we follow this in our faith we will per default follow this in our wordly lives. In our jobs we will strive to become better, if you are an engineer, computer geek or doctor you will strive to find a better construction method, better programming method or better medicine. In our social lives as well, become better friends, break down the barriers between people etc.
When a kid discovers there is something called the opposite sex (s)he needs to also investigate, discover and become more wise. (S)he needs to learn by making mistakes, needs to get heart broken a few times in order to learn what true love is all about. So when it is time for the kid to become an adult, take responsibility and commit to another person (s)he will hopefully know who is the right one for her/him.
Therefore, when my kids come home (in about 40 years) with their new boyfriend/girlfriend I must bite the bullet and let them make the mistakes that they will make, otherwise they will not learn anything. I cannot hide them from the world and demand they are virgins when married. All I can do is to make sure they are with another person for the right reason, love. I need to explain to them that eventhough they are only 40 years old (ok, probably more like 14) they still have the same obligations as an adult. If the youngsters are truly in love and they feel this relationship is going to last forever, am I to stop them just because I know the relationship is probably going to last only a few months and end with tears and broken hearts? To me, that sounds like a scholar telling me I don't need to read the Quran because he has all the answers already, he will tell me what is written.......
Now, taking this into account, what is the Quran punishing with 100 lashes or house-arrest? Young people learning about love or those who break commitments?
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The thing is that objectively speaking, manu relationships that do not last forever, are in fact marriages. But people fear marriage, as if it was marriage that makes things last and is serious, but what is serious is the relationship, and whether it lasts or not, it is still marriage. So, if homrones play havoc, but an honest havoc, it is still marriage. It owuld not be marriage it it wasn't a relationship but an act without acknowledgement of any relationship.
On the other hand, Emirl, four witnesses are required. Your hypothetic children would have to be real lustful wretches to fish for witnesses when being at it.
I agree that that part of sura An-nur is very secifically directed at salnderers. The number of ayas dedicated to them and what they say against the few ayas dedicated to actual zina make it very clear. And most particularly it points to the targetting of women for slander an wreckage.
It is a fact that people can maniulate and twist anything to suit their whims, and ignore anything that doesn't suit them. We should not blame the Qur'an for that, but those who are blind to it.
Salaam
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I really don?t care what is customary in Arab Society, killing yourselves is forbidden in the Quran.
This is not true. No prophet will ever tell anyone to kill themselves!!!!! Please do not try to compare Moses to Jim Jones!!! It?s insulting!!!! Killing yourselves is forbidden!!
429 O you who acknowledge, do not consume your money between you unjustly, except through a trade, which is mutually agreed by you. Do not kill yourselves; God is Compassionate towards you.
254 Moses said to his people, "O my people, you have wronged yourselves by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and face yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Compassionate."
Moses was telling the people to KILL THEIR EGOS and not themselves. Killing your ego is a path that leads to righteousness.
In addition 242 is a practical law. THE QURAN IS CLEAR.
242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system if you acknowledge God and the Last Day. Let a group of the acknowledgers witness their punishment.
Any person who says otherwise is either misinterpreting the Quran or twisting the scripture to suit there own benefit. In an Monotheistic society that follows the Quran alone if four witnesses witness an adulteress act and then accuses someone of adultery then it binding upon the believers to administer this punishment. Now we all know that most governments will not allow us to implement a punishment like this. However I do believe they will be a time in the future where God laws can be implemented without the fear of repercussions. Till then we must use other measures. However just because we can't implement a punishment doesn't mean that it is forbidden. God?s law is clear. When the time comes God's law will be implemented without fear and repercussions.
Peace,
Kevin
The punishment is not that hard to impliment. Whats lashing for adultery? People get lashed in schools for a lot less. So the issue is not the theoretical aspect of the law, its the practical aspect. Its hard to find four witnesses. And even if the spouse sees her in bed with another woman, he has to swear four times and she can swear four times. Most people will lie, so the woman or man can always lie about such things. But even is lashing is afministered, its a fitting punishment and most people would not mind lashing wghen it comes to adultery anyways. Adultery is one of the ten commandments of Moses.
Meanwhile your interpretation of Moses's verse is unconvincing. Its seems you are trying to put some spin on it. What do you mean killing your ego and how would you kill an ego? Plus God says he can forgive any sin except shirk. So I am not sure what you are saying.
But lashing for adultery is no big deal. Muslims lash for silly things like alcohol, and watching pornos and in Sudan for women wearing pants. Adultery is another ball game. Its still won't change anything. Ask anyone who was involved with such things and they will tell you that lashing won't solve the propblem. But i find the verse about it interesting as the Koran made it very hard to impliment.
But one thing is clear frpom the lashing verse, it is four times easier for someone making the accusation(except spouse) to get lashed than the adulterer. The accuser has to bring forth four witnesses. Meaning all together we have five. Other than that he or she can get lashed. lol! Its very obvious the goal here is to prevent people from accusers others.
When the Koran says do not kill yourself its talking about doing it for the wrong reasons. Worshiping a calf after all what God did and what they say Him do from splitting the ocean and bringing the plague on the Pharoah and all the miracles performed by Moses, is another thing. The Koran said the same when Jesus's disciples asked him to bring a food table from the heavens. Then the Koran said God said anyone who disbelieves after this will be punished like nobody else. That person was Judas. Although he didn't actually disbelief but disobeyed and betrayed Jesus and pointed him to the Talmud firsters. We all know what happened after that. Not every punishment God believes is appropriate can be administered by all humans. But some can.
Judas did the right thing.
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I really don?t care what is customary in Arab Society, killing yourselves is forbidden in the Quran.
This is not true. No prophet will ever tell anyone to kill themselves!!!!! Please do not try to compare Moses to Jim Jones!!! It?s insulting!!!! Killing yourselves is forbidden!!
429 O you who acknowledge, do not consume your money between you unjustly, except through a trade, which is mutually agreed by you. Do not kill yourselves; God is Compassionate towards you.
254 Moses said to his people, "O my people, you have wronged yourselves by taking the calf, so repent to your Maker, and face yourselves. That is better for you with your Maker, so He would forgive you. He is the Forgiving, the Compassionate."
Moses was telling the people to KILL THEIR EGOS and not themselves. Killing your ego is a path that leads to righteousness.
In addition 242 is a practical law. THE QURAN IS CLEAR.
242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system if you acknowledge God and the Last Day. Let a group of the acknowledgers witness their punishment.
Any person who says otherwise is either misinterpreting the Quran or twisting the scripture to suit there own benefit. In an Monotheistic society that follows the Quran alone if four witnesses witness an adulteress act and then accuses someone of adultery then it binding upon the believers to administer this punishment. Now we all know that most governments will not allow us to implement a punishment like this. However I do believe they will be a time in the future where God laws can be implemented without the fear of repercussions. Till then we must use other measures. However just because we can't implement a punishment doesn't mean that it is forbidden. God?s law is clear. When the time comes God's law will be implemented without fear and repercussions.
Peace,
Kevin
Very intresting. But even in the future, if the quranic law can be implemented in cases of adultery than there would still be 4 witnessers required? I think than this punishment would occur very rare, since most people dont fornicate or commit adultery in the presence of 4 others... however, you continue to use the word 'adultery' what about fornication? As I can see, quran does not distinguish between adultery and fornication.
Peace
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On the other hand, Emirl, four witnesses are required. Your hypothetic children would have to be real lustful wretches to fish for witnesses when being at it.
SalaamYeah I know......almost impossible to get caught.........But the way I see it is that adultery is one of the few things Allah has actually stipulated a punishment for. To me that is a sign that it is quite a serious offence. Therefore one could conclude the action must be of a very serious kind. When I compare fornication with adultery there is a clear winner of what can wreck a family and if it really goes bad, create orphans. Therefore it is more important to understand what adultery can do to your family instead of focusing on the fact it is almost impossible to get caught.
So my very real children will be allowed to fornicate in the way many faithful people see fornication. As long as they do it out of love and with clear awareness of the "seriousness" of a relationship. In their mind they are married, eventhough they are seeing the world through very naive and hormonal goggles. I cannot tell them they are wrong when their emotions say they are right, they must find out themselves. Don't get me wrong, if any of my sons are dating just to get laid I will whoop their asses, same goes for my girls. Love is the key, that is the difference between fornication and marriage.
As per marriage being something to be scared of, I think it is right. It is serious and a person is taking an oath to protect and support another human being should never be taken lightly.To me, it is very clear Allah only shows what is to be done for adultery (242). Because adultery is a fact, period. There is absolutely no way adultery can be anything but adultery.
Fornication is what you want it to be. My opinion differs from others, how on earth can Allah stipulate a harsh punishment for a crime that can be based on an opinion? Therefore the guidance is a guidance, it is up to us as individuals to decide what fornication is (1732). -
Yeah I know......almost impossible to get caught.........But the way I see it is that adultery is one of the few things Allah has actually stipulated a punishment for. To me that is a sign that it is quite a serious offence. Therefore one could conclude the action must be of a very serious kind. When I compare fornication with adultery there is a clear winner of what can wreck a family and if it really goes bad, create orphans. Therefore it is more important to understand what adultery can do to your family instead of focusing on the fact it is almost impossible to get caught.
So my very real children will be allowed to fornicate in the way many faithful people see fornication. As long as they do it out of love and with clear awareness of the "seriousness" of a relationship. In their mind they are married, eventhough they are seeing the world through very naive and hormonal goggles. I cannot tell them they are wrong when their emotions say they are right, they must find out themselves. Don't get me wrong, if any of my sons are dating just to get laid I will whoop their asses, same goes for my girls. Love is the key, that is the difference between fornication and marriage.
As per marriage being something to be scared of, I think it is right. It is serious and a person is taking an oath to protect and support another human being should never be taken lightly.To me, it is very clear Allah only shows what is to be done for adultery (242). Because adultery is a fact, period. There is absolutely no way adultery can be anything but adultery.
Fornication is what you want it to be. My opinion differs from others, how on earth can Allah stipulate a harsh punishment for a crime that can be based on an opinion? Therefore the guidance is a guidance, it is up to us as individuals to decide what fornication is (1732).But fornication is a serious crime also. Allowance of unmarried people sleeping around together does not only create lustful people but also aids, HIV, AND other diseases but it also creates heartbreaks, children out of wedlock and so on.
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I was in an marriage that was 10 yrs plus 4 yr dating. He had affairs.. I can not EXPRESS the hurt and pain. Never could I trust him again, looking at him made me want to vomit. He was my first, so it hurt even more. It tore my family apart and my children landed in therapy. One day we were laughing in the car. The next night he came home to ALL his stuff thrown out in the middle of the yard. He denied everything, but I am not stupid, I talked to the people he cheated with. Imagine the embassament of getting an AIDS Test and STD test and explaining the situation, which was more than a "normal" affairs. Besides, pictures speak a thousand words, they also hold up in court!
Having the one you love and trust with another is so painful. Hence why almost did not come into islam due to Polygamy. I knew I would kill someone. Him having a second wife is still equal to an affair to me, just worse because I KNOW what you are doing with her. I would go insane, I can't ever let myself experience that pain again. I promised myself for it was almost the end of me. As a Muslim female, I just thought I would never be able to put my gaurd down, always being nervous if he was thinking of another or wanted another wife or MMA.
It took me FOREVER to trust the male gender, and Islam does not make it easy to trust the man with all their free reign of sex (in some sunni's versions of islam). Maybe it is my fault for veiwing intamacy as a very sacred thing, which is why I waited till I was married. You don't feel it is so sacred and worth waiting for when this happens.
If a man can't stand his wife with another, what makes him think she can stand to see him with another? Don't they say a women is more emotional than a man?
Sorry guys.
I understand you 100% you almost reminds me of my self in the past. Of course I am a virgin until my marriage, I never compromise on moral issues hence I had the condition that whoever i get marry to has to be a virgin like me. Under no circumstances would I accept a fornicator, because if he cant even control his penis before marriage how can I expect that he can control it after marriage ? And seriously I am tired of being a opressed victim as a muslim woman - if my husband wants to practise polygamy I would definitely practice polyandry as well. Let him bring another bitc* in my home and i will bring another man home as well, that's JUSTICE. But furtunately this would not really happen since I would never marry a man who believes in polygamy or any other sort of wife cheating. I don't believe in husbannd-swapping. Loyalty is the strongest sign of true love and respect for your wife.
Peace
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Yeah I know......almost impossible to get caught.........But the way I see it is that adultery is one of the few things Allah has actually stipulated a punishment for. To me that is a sign that it is quite a serious offence. Therefore one could conclude the action must be of a very serious kind. When I compare fornication with adultery there is a clear winner of what can wreck a family and if it really goes bad, create orphans. Therefore it is more important to understand what adultery can do to your family instead of focusing on the fact it is almost impossible to get caught.
So my very real children will be allowed to fornicate in the way many faithful people see fornication. As long as they do it out of love and with clear awareness of the "seriousness" of a relationship. In their mind they are married, eventhough they are seeing the world through very naive and hormonal goggles. I cannot tell them they are wrong when their emotions say they are right, they must find out themselves. Don't get me wrong, if any of my sons are dating just to get laid I will whoop their asses, same goes for my girls. Love is the key, that is the difference between fornication and marriage.
As per marriage being something to be scared of, I think it is right. It is serious and a person is taking an oath to protect and support another human being should never be taken lightly.To me, it is very clear Allah only shows what is to be done for adultery (242). Because adultery is a fact, period. There is absolutely no way adultery can be anything but adultery.
Fornication is what you want it to be. My opinion differs from others, how on earth can Allah stipulate a harsh punishment for a crime that can be based on an opinion? Therefore the guidance is a guidance, it is up to us as individuals to decide what fornication is (1732).I didn't mean the part about getting caught as condoning zina as something that is not very important. It is important, and you rightly conlude that from the fact that it is made punishable with 100 lashes.
But the requirement of the four witnesses, to also points to the fact that we must not rely in punishment as means os saving societies from it, because one can do plenty of zina without four witnesses. To me it points to the level of transgression it is, but the believers must be conscious of it themselves. Punishment is not supposed to do that job for them. And the fixing of a punishment also precludes that people go around avenging this kind of thing wildly. That also is important.
Salaam
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The punishment is not that hard to impliment. Whats lashing for adultery? People get lashed in schools for a lot less. So the issue is not the theoretical aspect of the law, its the practical aspect. Its hard to find four witnesses. And even if the spouse sees her in bed with another woman, he has to swear four times and she can swear four times. Most people will lie, so the woman or man can always lie about such things. But even is lashing is afministered, its a fitting punishment and most people would not mind lashing wghen it comes to adultery anyways. Adultery is one of the ten commandments of Moses.
Brother Bigmo
I would advise you to read the Quran carefully ....
242 The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system if you acknowledge God and the Last Day. Let a group of the acknowledgers witness their punishment
243 The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or one who is an idolatress. The adulteress, she will only be married to an adulterer or an idolater. This has been forbidden for the acknowledgers.
244 Those who accuse the independent women and they do not bring forth four witnesses, then you shall lash them eighty lashes and do not ever accept their testimony. Those indeed are the evildoers;
245 Except those who repent after this and do right, then God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
246 Those who accuse their wives, but they have no witnesses except for themselves, then the testimony of one of them should be four testimony, swearing by God that he is being truthful.
247 The fifth shall be God's curse upon him if he is one of those lying.
248 The punishment will be averted from her if she testifies four times by God that he is of the liars.
249 The fifth shall be that God's curse is upon her if he is speaking the truth.Brother if a man witnesses his wife committing an adulterous act he does not need four witnesses to make the accusation. His testimony will be the testimony of four people if he swears before God. The only way that a women can avert the punishment is if she swears fours times that her spouse is lying.
Now this other issue about 100 lashes not being a big deal.lol. Dear brother Bigmo the 100 lashes is not the only punishment that adulterer will suffer
The adulterer will suffer- 100 lashes
2)Public Shame - Most believers will abstain from marrying a person who has committed an adulterous act.
This is not a small issue this is big one. God's law is clear. Public shame and losing the trust of your brothers and sisters in the same is faith is no joke.
Meanwhile your interpretation of Moses's verse is unconvincing. Its seems you are trying to put some spin on it. What do you mean killing your ego and how would you kill an ego? Plus God says he can forgive any sin except shirk. So I am not sure what you are saying.
This is a long topic. I believe Edip's explanation will be able to answer your question better than I can.
Read here https//docs.google.com/document/d/1_E-nFHs8Y17bJO4omTM9XJlU_ztFNpaN4dzZ6PdTBlY/edit?hl=en_GB
When it comes to translating the Quran it is vital that all of the teachings be consistent. You cannot in one verse ban suicide and killing one another and in the next allow it!
In addition your narrow definition of shirk is incomplete. Any time you disobey God's law you are committing shirk. Disobeying God's law is putting yourself as a god before God. This is sin.
2543 Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
2544 Or do you think that most of them hear or understand? They are just like cattle. No, they are worse off.But one thing is clear frpom the lashing verse, it is four times easier for someone making the accusation(except spouse) to get lashed than the adulterer. The accuser has to bring forth four witnesses. Meaning all together we have five. Other than that he or she can get lashed. lol! Its very obvious the goal here is to prevent people from accusers others.
415 The women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.
244 Those who accuse the independent women and they do not bring forth four witnesses, then you shall lash them eighty lashes and do not ever accept their testimony. Those indeed are the evildoers;
You only need four witnesses to accuse women of adultery. The person who accuses the adulterer is one of the four witnesses. This is proved in Sura 415
When the Koran says do not kill yourself its talking about doing it for the wrong reasons. Worshiping a calf after all what God did and what they say Him do from splitting the ocean and bringing the plague on the Pharoah and all the miracles performed by Moses, is another thing. The Koran said the same when Jesus's disciples asked him to bring a food table from the heavens. Then the Koran said God said anyone who disbelieves after this will be punished like nobody else. That person was Judas. Although he didn't actually disbelief but disobeyed and betrayed Jesus and pointed him to the Talmud firsters. We all know what happened after that. Not every punishment God believes is appropriate can be administered by all humans. But some can.
Judas did the right thing.
Brother Bigmo I do not care what Judas did. Judas is not in the Quran. Any narration that is does not comply with the Quran are assumptions and not facts. If you want to follow assumptions with no proof then you are doing the same thing that Sunnis and Shites do. Also what do you mean by "When the Koran says do not kill yourself its talking about doing it for the wrong reasons". Why is it that there are so many people who claim to follow the Quran yet twist the scripture. When God says do not kill yourselves he means don't kill yourselves there are no if's and but's!!! Either you follow God's law or commit shirk , your choice.
Peace,
Kevin
- 100 lashes
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Very intresting. But even in the future, if the quranic law can be implemented in cases of adultery than there would still be 4 witnessers required? I think than this punishment would occur very rare, since most people dont fornicate or commit adultery in the presence of 4 others... however, you continue to use the word 'adultery' what about fornication? As I can see, quran does not distinguish between adultery and fornication.
Peace
Both adultery and fornication are banned in the Quran...
2430 Tell the acknowledging men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
If you practice modesty and guard your private parts how can you commit adultery or fornication? Common Sense people.
2431 Tell the acknowledging women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not show off their attraction except what is apparent, and let them cast their clothes over their cleavage. Let them not show off their attraction except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the nakedness of women. Let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their attraction. Repent to God, all of you acknowledgers, so that you may succeed.
It is my belief that adultery in the Quran means "any type of sex outside of marriage." It is naive to limit adultery to mean only " sexual infidelity to one's spouse" since this is an English definition and not a Quranic definition.
Peace,
Kevin.
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Yeah I know......almost impossible to get caught.........But the way I see it is that adultery is one of the few things Allah has actually stipulated a punishment for. To me that is a sign that it is quite a serious offence. Therefore one could conclude the action must be of a very serious kind. When I compare fornication with adultery there is a clear winner of what can wreck a family and if it really goes bad, create orphans. Therefore it is more important to understand what adultery can do to your family instead of focusing on the fact it is almost impossible to get caught.
So my very real children will be allowed to fornicate in the way many faithful people see fornication. As long as they do it out of love and with clear awareness of the "seriousness" of a relationship. In their mind they are married, eventhough they are seeing the world through very naive and hormonal goggles. I cannot tell them they are wrong when their emotions say they are right, they must find out themselves. Don't get me wrong, if any of my sons are dating just to get laid I will whoop their asses, same goes for my girls. Love is the key, that is the difference between fornication and marriage.
As per marriage being something to be scared of, I think it is right. It is serious and a person is taking an oath to protect and support another human being should never be taken lightly.To me, it is very clear Allah only shows what is to be done for adultery (242). Because adultery is a fact, period. There is absolutely no way adultery can be anything but adultery.
Fornication is what you want it to be. My opinion differs from others, how on earth can Allah stipulate a harsh punishment for a crime that can be based on an opinion? Therefore the guidance is a guidance, it is up to us as individuals to decide what fornication is (1732).If a person truly loves another person then marriage should be the first thing on there mind and not sex. Sex outside of wedlock without the thought of marriage is lust and not love.
Peace,
Kevin.
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Both adultery and fornication are banned in the Quran...
2430 Tell the acknowledging men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
If you practice modesty and guard your private how can you commit adultery or fornication. Common Sense people.
2431 Tell the acknowledging women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not show off their attraction except what is apparent, and let them cast their clothes over their cleavage. Let them not show off their attraction except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the nakedness of women. Let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their attraction. Repent to God, all of you acknowledgers, so that you may succeed.
It is my belief that adultery in the Quran means "any type of sex outside of marriage." It is naive to limit adultery to mean only " sexual infidelity to one's spouse" since this is an English definition and not a Quranic definition.
Peace,
Kevin.
I agree with you 100%. Both adultery and fornication are gross sins. Adultery spoils families while fornication is pure lust. god has created HIV, AND AIDS for these lustful people. I just thought front your previous post that you understood zina as being limited to adultery and not being fornication. But zina is every sexual act outside marriage as you rightly said.
Peace