I now submit myself to the Sunnah and the authority of hadith
-
Salaam Jinn,
I have also had a dream experience. In the dream I was standing in front of a small child, a boy. The boy was bald and wearing traditional Tibetan monk garb. He told me to have a seat and and bowed his head. I sat down and felt an amazing since of unconditional love coming from this child. It felt like he was there to save me. It's really difficult to explain. After that dream I thought that God had sent me a sign tha Buddhism was the true way. I had been praying for years for a direction to truth and had finally found it even though I had reservations about the lack of acknowledgement of God in Buddhism. I felt that way until I read the Quran.
I've never told anyone about this dream. I say all this just to say that dreams can be misleading. You should take all experiences of religion of moral context and measure them by using the Quran as your measuring stick first and foremost. Thay way you will never deviate from the truth. If you measure it against Allah's word you can't go wrong.
-
Salaam Jinn,
I have also had a dream experience. In the dream I was standing in front of a small child, a boy. The boy was bald and wearing traditional Tibetan monk garb. He told me to have a seat and and bowed his head. I sat down and felt an amazing since of unconditional love coming from this child. It felt like he was there to save me. It's really difficult to explain. After that dream I thought that God had sent me a sign tha Buddhism was the true way. I had been praying for years for a direction to truth and had finally found it even though I had reservations about the lack of acknowledgement of God in Buddhism. I felt that way until I read the Quran.
I've never told anyone about this dream. I say all this just to say that dreams can be misleading. You should take all experiences of religion of moral context and measure them by using the Quran as your measuring stick first and foremost. Thay way you will never deviate from the truth. If you measure it against Allah's word you can't go wrong.
well put Duke.
-
I had a dream a week or 2 ago... I saw the Prophet(pbuh) in my dream. I couldn't see any detail in his face and he seemed extremely distant though he was standing right next to me but I undeniably saw the Prophet Muhammad in my dream and no one can convince me otherwise.
At first I didn't even want to believe it it has taken me 2 weeks to accept but now that I have had this dream I am absolutely positive the sahih hadith are true and I must follow the Sunnah.
The crazy thing about this dream is I prayed for a dream from God about 1 or 2 months prior to the dream occurring. I have been on the fence the past 5-7 months about whether or not I need to align my beliefs to the hadith or not but now I am sure I must. I prayed for a dream from God and I prayed for God to show me whether I should embrace the hadith and the Sunnah or stick to only the Qur'an. I now have my answer alhamdullilah.
Let me paraphrase the dream. I was walking along a plain in the alternating between my own body and the form of a large powerful lion. One second I would be walking and look down and see my own arm. The next second I would look down and see large powerful lion paws.
Anyway as I'm walking these little rats kept eating their ways from inside my own body to come out of my body. It was extremely painful I would feel an itch then a pair of teeth would rip its way out of the backside of my flesh. This would happen in my human body and my lion body.
Now as I'm walking these demon-like hell hounds were appearing all around me and giving me menacing looks but I wasn't scared in my lion body only in my human body.
Now suddenly as I'm walking these hell-hounds suddenly turn on me and begin attacking me and killing me. As I'm laying on the ground panicking from fear and dying, a figure of a man appears in the shroud of this intense blazing light and my mind yelled out "Ahmad!" (and in my head it clicked or I decided this was Muhammad) and he came to me and resurrected me by touching me with his light and when I got up he was gone. I'm sure that this was the Prophet the wave of peace that washed over me was so real and palpable when he appeared and the blazing and glorious light he was surrounded by was awe inspiring I might as well have seen him while I was awake.
After that the hell-hounds seemed to quiver at my presence and I soon woke up with that blazing luminous image of Muhammad embedded in my mind's eye. When I awoke I instantly thought of the hadith about seeing the Prophet in dreams and I realized that the dream from God I had prayed for had actually arrived!
Book 029, Number 5639
Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying He who saw me in a dream in fact saw me, for the satan cannot assume my form.Book 029, Number 5637
Abu Qatada reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying He who saw me in dream in fact saw the truth (what is true).angel I could not believe it for I am not devout nor pure but I prayed to God and a couple months later I received the sign I was looking for.
Now after 2 weeks of deliberation and soul-searching I have finally come to terms with what this dream means and I will interpret it for anyone who's interested for when it first happened I was skeptical and reluctant to face reality.
The rats coming outside of my body represent that I was ruining myself from the inside.
I was in a form of a lion because of my forceful and proud personality. I saw myself as a lion in the dream because in reality I see myself as a man's man or someone stronger than most men. I actually like to think of myself as a lion and not a man when I need to feel powerful or confident so there's no coincidence.
I had a false sense of security walking among my enemies in the dream because I was in a strong lion body but still I was quickly destroyed. This shows that the path I was walking was a path where I thought myself powerful enough or self-sufficient to take care of myself.
I thought I could ignore the Sunnah and still walk the right path but I was wrong.
Only after the light of Muhammad touched me was I able to walk the path safely and without fear. This shows that only by embracing the Sunnah am I truly walking the right path and I'm absolutely convinced of the truth of this dream.
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
Thank you Faithful Jinn you really makes my day.. rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl- How could you be sure the person that you see are infact Mr. Muhammad Son of Abdullah who lived and died 1400 years ago? Given you never met the guy before?
Who knows the person could infact be Mr Elvis Presley!! - I've read the quite similar story before from mostly Christians.. the plot of the story are quite similar.
The only differences was that it was Mr Jesus from Nazareth who appears in the dream.
Again the same argument can be stated forward
How could the dreamer be sure the person that he/she sees are infact Mr. Jesus from Nazareth who lived and died (errgh not died, he was lifted to the sky by some Alien) 2000 years ago? Given he/she never met the guy before?
In any case you're free to believe whatever you want as there are no compulsory in belief truth stands out clear from error..
Again I would like to say thank you as the story really makes me.. rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
Salam / Peace
- How could you be sure the person that you see are infact Mr. Muhammad Son of Abdullah who lived and died 1400 years ago? Given you never met the guy before?
-
But if it is built on conjecture and Qur'an alone is wrong then you will have ignored or at the very least disrespected Islamic traditions.
Corrections, it's should be "Disrespect of Arabic/Middle Eastern Folks Traditions".
(Which I certainly had no problems of..)And yup, I would agree that many of the so-called 'hadith believers' are fighting very hard to keep people 'respect the TRADITIONS' for the sake of "MAINTAINING THE TRADITIONS" as has been laid forward by their ancestors for many generations...
Mr Muhammad faced that tough resistance as well around 1400 years ago, as 'Arabs Idol believers' are fighting very very hard to keep people "Respect the ARABIC TRADITIONS" for the sake of "MAINTAINING THE TRADITIONS" as they inherited such traditions from their ancestors without questioning or thinking.
Salam / Peace
-
Salaam Jinn,
I have also had a dream experience. In the dream I was standing in front of a small child, a boy. The boy was bald and wearing traditional Tibetan monk garb. He told me to have a seat and and bowed his head. I sat down and felt an amazing since of unconditional love coming from this child. It felt like he was there to save me. It's really difficult to explain. After that dream I thought that God had sent me a sign tha Buddhism was the true way. I had been praying for years for a direction to truth and had finally found it even though I had reservations about the lack of acknowledgement of God in Buddhism. I felt that way until I read the Quran.
I've never told anyone about this dream. I say all this just to say that dreams can be misleading. You should take all experiences of religion of moral context and measure them by using the Quran as your measuring stick first and foremost. Thay way you will never deviate from the truth. If you measure it against Allah's word you can't go wrong.
I'll keep that in mind thanks for that story.
As for everyone who laughed and poked fun you remind me exactly of the atheists I would argue with who would refuse to understand what it means to have faith and ask me to "prove" God or tell me my belief in God is irrational. I can't prove God is real nor can I prove that it was truly Muhammad(pbuh) that I saw in my dream. I can't be made to rationalize every aspect of my beliefs nor do I need to.
Can any one of you "prove" that the Qur'an is from God no you really can't because if you could without a doubt prove it then almost everyone would be Muslim.
As for which hadith to follow I'd have to do further research but yeah having a dream and seeing the Prophet(pbuh) really makes me question if all the hadith are false in light of the hadith about dreams but I will remain vigilant in my lifelong search for truth and obviously will be doing more research into the Qur'an and hadith that will hopefully either refute or verify my suspicions.
Thank you everyone who responded to my experience, whether you agreed or disagreed, with a modicum of respect.
-
Salaam;
Your second-last reply deserves an assessment (remember this is objective and not emotional)
I think a lot of you Qur'an aloners have the wrong idea with hadith and are JUST as divisive as Sunnis if not more. Sunnis insult your faith for not following hadith then you stoop to their level and insult their faith by attacking hadith. I'm not sure if ALL the hadith in Bukhari or Muslim are true and I obviously won't do something I don't think is in the spirit of Islam but I see much truth and wisdom in many hadith and to deny that is just arrogance in my opinion.
If you can only find wisdom in hadith, than that is badn (try Buddhism or rationality and free-thinking/studying the Qur'an also). ?Qur?an-aloners? can also judge what is in the spirit of Islam (and hence can live with certain ahadith without feeling the need to make it obligatory and force it arrogantly on other Muslims), but what is worse you are SUBMITTING yourself to hadith and sunna (I noticed you did not say Qur?an) whilst still trying to say you are thinking for yourself. It is not good to claim a moral highground by saying that Qur?an-aloners are divisive, because Qur?an-aloners are using their own brains and not accepting tradition whilst expecting others to maintain it under obligation of being Muslim. I am not insulting you but truthfully you do not even know what you are following (since the questions have been unanswered). Death for apostasy is sahih (according to the folk you follow or else you are not submitting).
I don't care whether anyone else follows the Sunnah I just take from the Sunnah what I can to change my own life and see if following or applying certain hadith will help me practice Islam better. If I don't think it will help me then I don't do it.
I thought you submitted yourself. As I said you do not know what you are doing. If you submit yourself, then who are you to choose what you submit yourself to?
Do you think God will punish me for growing a beard for His sake? Do you think God will punish me for taking out my earrings for His sake? Do you think God will punish me for asking forgiveness for my tattoos for His sake? Will God punish me for observing what I think are the ways of the Prophet(pbuh) for his sake when it only improves my faith and doesn't hurt anyone else?
Are you submitting yourself to beard-growing and thus making beard-growing a religious law? According to the Qur?an that would be a sin. Did you need your earrings in the first place? What is the point of earrings except ego? Are you going to say that it is prohibited or are you using the reasoning of a ?Qur?an-alone? Muslim?
?And He it is Who has made the sea subservient that you may eat fresh flesh from it and bring forth from it ornaments which you wear, and you see the ships cleaving through it, and that you might seek of His bounty and that you may give thanks.?
1614
?Say Who has prohibited the embellishment of Allah which He has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions? Say These are for the believers in the life of this world, purely (theirs) on the resurrection day; thus do We make the communications clear for a people who know.?
732
?Say My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed, and sin and rebellion without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know.?
734
Will God punish me for observing what I think are the ways of the Prophet(pbuh) for his sake when it only improves my faith and doesn't hurt anyone else?
But death for apostasy is apparently ?sahih?. How will you know what are the ways of the Prophet? Why are you making distinction amongst messengers by observing what you THINK are the manners of the Prophet (SAW)? Everything you need is in the Qur?an
?Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers.?
6114
?In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a hadith which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe.?
12111
All Messengers judged only by the Qur?an, and we are expected to do so too (544-50). I noticed that you said ?for his sake? (meaning Muhammad (SAW but I will assume you meant Allah (SWT) (or else you contradict 6162 and commit shirq)).
Keep in mind that we should follow the Messenger because the Messenger followed the Qur?an?
?And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims??
380
Are you are not doing that whilst declaring it is for Allah?s (SWT) sake. You can justify anything by saying you THINK it is what Allah (SWT) likes. That is the same as attributing words to Him that you know nothing of. It is only conjecture you base your above paragraph on. The Qur?an does not like conjecture.
?And when Our communications are recited to him, he turns back proudly, as if he had not heard them, as though in his ears were a heaviness, therefore announce to him a painful chastisement.?
317
So who is it who is proud?
Again which hadith you accept?
?What has happened to you? How do you judge? Or have you a book wherein you read, that you have surely therein what you choose? Or have you received from Us an agreement confirmed by an oath extending to the day of resurrection that you shall surely have what you demand??
6836-9
No I believe my reward will be greater for my striving. So what you as Qur'an alone Muslims and what all other Muslims should be doing is stop bickering over who's wrong with near boastful pride and arrogance and and vie with another in good works.
You just said yes to 6839.
You say the hadith are built on a basis of conjecture. This may be true. But if I'm wrong then I haven't done anything wrong and whether I'm wrong or right my reward will be greater.
?Who is then more unjust than who forges a lie against Allah or (who) gives the lie to His communications? Surely the guilty shall not be successful.?
1017
You want to take the risk, and you admit it is built on conjecture (?that may be true?)?
?Say Is there any of your associates who guides to the truth? Say Allah guides to the truth. Is He then Who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, or he who himself does not go aright unless he is guided? What then is the matter with you; how do you judge??
1035
The Qur?an is asking what you are doing and why you are doing it. You reply that the Qur'an is not enough and that you have a special covenant to have what you choose as long as you think it is right.
?And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do. ?And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, THERE IS NO DOUBT IN IT, from the Lord of the worlds.?
1036-37
?And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do.?
1036-37
So the Qur?an is the only truth.
?This then is Allah, your true Lord; and what is there after the truth but error; how are you then turned back? Thus does the word of your Lord prove true (against those who transgress) that they do not believe.?
1032-33
"And follow the BEST that has been revealed to you from your Lord before there comes to you the punishment all of a sudden while you do not even perceive..."
Qur'an 3955
"Allah has revealed the BEST hadith, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides WITH IT whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him."
Qur'an 3923
"(Such has been) the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah."
Qur'an 3362
But if it is built on conjecture and Qur'an alone is wrong then you will have ignored or at the very least disrespected Islamic traditions. If it is built on conjecture then you too are not sure whether Qur'an alone is the right alternative or know for sure whether hadith are true or not so you too should re-evaluate perhaps.
Can you say without a shadow of a doubt that many hadith have no basis in truth? That Muhammad(pbuh) himself did not utter many of these hadith?
Your last two questions are answered by the Qur?an. As I said Muhammad (SAW) did things in a specific context and now you worship him. This leads your prayer to contradict the Qur?an in several places (e.g. tone of voice, ritualising it etc.).
We will have ignored the cultural traditions of the environment in which Islam was practiced. Please do not say that they are Islamic without a basis in the Qur?an. The Qur?an gives a criterion of what a believer does. Muhammad (SAW) was a man and not a god.
Why does the fact that traditions are built on conjecture mean that what the Qur?an says is built on conjecture? Whether ahadith are true or not is beside the point. You have not answered the question why Allah (SWT) did not promise to preserve ahadith?
"Allah has revealed the BEST hadith, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides WITH IT whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him."
Qur'an 3923
So you are saying that you don?t have faith in the Qur?an and that you believe it is not enough. In the meantime you will claim that you are using your own mind whilst declaring a shahada to follow ahadith. I can go on, but that is all. Do not claim the moral highground until you know what you are actually doing and you can support it. Good luck submitting to something that you "are not submitting" too.
Salaam.
-
Can any one of you "prove" that the Qur'an is from God no you really can't because if you could without a doubt prove it then almost everyone would be Muslim.
You do not sound Muslim. At least it seems you are on the cultural bandwagon. That is besides the point. You are saying and attempting to justify that Islam is lacking something with just the Qur'an. You cannot prove anything but the point here is you have no point. You were being purified in the dream? How are we purified according to what you CLAIM to believe? Is the Qur'an not enough to purify us?
?And the answer of his people was no other than that they said Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify .?
782
How were they seeking to purify themselves?
"Then he turned away from them and said O my people I did certainly deliver to you the message of my Lord, and I gave you good advice, but you do not love those who give good advice."
779
?I deliver to you the messages of my Lord, and I offer you good advice and I know from Allah what you do not know. What! do you wonder that a reminder has come to you from your Lord through a man from among you, that he might warn you and that you might guard and so that mercy may be shown to you??
62-63
Purification is guarding against evil. The good advice is the reminder and an example is in 769 as well as 773-79 and 785-93. Those who reject the communications do not act rightly.
Therefore I thought Islamic practices as delivered via the Qur'an purified us already. The dream has been addressed.
-
Salaam;
Your second-last reply deserves an assessment (remember this is objective and not emotional)
If you can only find wisdom in hadith, than that is bad. ?Qur?an-aloners? can also judge what is in the spirit of Islam (and hence can live with certain ahadith without feeling the need to make it obligatory and force it arrogantly on other Muslims), but what is worse you are SUBMITTING yourself to hadith and sunna (I noticed you did not say Qur?an) whilst still trying to say you are thinking for yourself. It is not good to claim a moral highground by saying that Qur?an-aloners are divisive, because Qur?an-aloners are using their own brains and not accepting tradition whilst expecting others to maintain it under obligation of being Muslim. I am not insulting you but truthfully you do not even know what you are following (since the questions have been unanswered). Death for apostasy is sahih (according to the folk you follow or else you are not submitting).
I thought you submitted yourself. As I said you do not know what you are doing. If you submit yourself, then who are you to choose what you submit yourself to?
Are you submitting yourself to beard-growing and thus making beard-growing a religious law? According to the Qur?an that would be a sin. Did you need your earrings in the first place? What is the point of earrings except ego? Are you going to say that it is prohibited or are you using the reasoning of a ?Qur?an-alone? Muslim?
?And He it is Who has made the sea subservient that you may eat fresh flesh from it and bring forth from it ornaments which you wear, and you see the ships cleaving through it, and that you might seek of His bounty and that you may give thanks.?
1614
?Say Who has prohibited the embellishment of Allah which He has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions? Say These are for the believers in the life of this world, purely (theirs) on the resurrection day; thus do We make the communications clear for a people who know.?
732
?Say My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed, and sin and rebellion without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know.?
734
But death for apostasy is apparently ?sahih?. How will you know what are the ways of the Prophet? Why are you making distinction amongst messengers by observing what you THINK are the manners of the Prophet (SAW)? Everything you need is in the Qur?an
?Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers.?
6114
?In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a hadith which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe.?
12111
All Messengers judged only by the Qur?an, and we are expected to do so too (545-50). I noticed that you said ?for his sake? (meaning Muhammad (SAW but I will assume you meant Allah (SWT) (or else you contradict 6162 and commit shirq)).
Keep in mind that we should follow the Messenger because the Messenger followed the Qur?an?
?And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims??
380
Are you are not doing that whilst declaring it is for Allah?s (SWT) sake. You can justify anything by saying you THINK it is what Allah (SWT) likes. That is the same as attributing words to Him that you know nothing of. It is only conjecture you base your above paragraph on. The Qur?an does not like conjecture.
?And when Our communications are recited to him, he turns back proudly, as if he had not heard them, as though in his ears were a heaviness, therefore announce to him a painful chastisement.?
317
So who is it who is proud?
Again which hadith you accept?
?What has happened to you? How do you judge? Or have you a book wherein you read, that you have surely therein what you choose? Or have you received from Us an agreement confirmed by an oath extending to the day of resurrection that you shall surely have what you demand??
6836-9
You just said yes to 6839.
?Who is then more unjust than who forges a lie against Allah or (who) gives the lie to His communications? Surely the guilty shall not be successful.?
1017
You want to take the risk, and you admit it is built on conjecture (?that may be true?)?
?Say Is there any of your associates who guides to the truth? Say Allah guides to the truth. Is He then Who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, or he who himself does not go aright unless he is guided? What then is the matter with you; how do you judge??
1035
The Qur?an is asking what you are doing and why you are doing it. You reply that the Qur'an is not enough and that you have a special covenant to have what you choose as long as you think it is right.
?And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do. ?And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, THERE IS NO DOUBT IN IT, from the Lord of the worlds.?
1036-37
?And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do.?
1036-37
So the Qur?an is the only truth.
?This then is Allah, your true Lord; and what is there after the truth but error; how are you then turned back? Thus does the word of your Lord prove true (against those who transgress) that they do not believe.?
1032-33
"And follow the BEST that has been revealed to you from your Lord before there comes to you the punishment all of a sudden while you do not even perceive..."
Qur'an 3955
"Allah has revealed the BEST hadith, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him."
Qur'an 3923
"(Such has been) the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah."
Qur'an 3362
Your last two questions are answered by the Qur?an. As I said Muhammad (SAW) did things in a specific context and now you worship him. This leads your prayer to contradict the Qur?an in several places (e.g. tone of voice, ritualising it etc.).
We will have ignored the cultural traditions of the environment in which Islam was practiced. Please do not say that they are Islamic without a basis in the Qur?an. The Qur?an gives a criterion of what a believer does. Muhammad (SAW) was a man and not a god.
Why does the fact that traditions are built on conjecture mean that what the Qur?an says is built on conjecture? Whether ahadith are true or not is beside the point. You have not answered the question why Allah (SWT) did not promise to preserve ahadith?
"Allah has revealed the BEST hadith, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him."
Qur'an 3923
So you are saying that you don?t have faith in the Qur?an and that you believe it is not enough. In the meantime you will claim that you are using your own mind whilst declaring a shahada to follow ahadith. I can go on, but that is all. Do not claim the moral highground until you know what you are actually doing and you can support it. Good luck submitting to something that you "are not submitting" too.
Salaam.
I'll admit I have definitely been premature in my willingness to adhere to the Sunnah. I really am not going through all these posts and answer every single little question I would have to sit down for an hour to answer all the individual posts where people challenged my belief in this thread so many people wrote a damn essay about the fallacies of hadith.
After just taking a look through the punishment about Islamic punishment I have already found 2 or 3 so-called "authentic" or "sahih" hadith that directly contradict the Qur'an. Doesn't really get any clearer than that...
My fear about rejecting hadith is what if some of them are true? But I don't think God will want me to adhere to any rules that are among false sayings. If God wanted me to know something wouldn't it be in the Qur'an?
I don't even know any more I'm going to just do my own thinking for a while I'm not sure what to take from that dream anymore I swear it was Muhammad(pbuh) in the dream you guys don't understand because you didn't experience what I did. I'll get back to you guys.
-
You do not sound Muslim.
Says you.... I was using that point as an analogy. You can't ask me to prove something that can't truly be proven or be disproved.
At least it seems you are on the cultural bandwagon. That is besides the point. You are saying and attempting to justify that Islam is lacking something with just the Qur'an.
Cultural bandwagon? I don't even know what that means. I never said Islam was lacking something with just the Qur'an but I will concede it is implied in the idea of Sunni Islam.
You cannot prove anything but the point here is you have no point. You were being purified in the dream? How are we purified according to what you CLAIM to believe? Is the Qur'an not enough to purify us?
Yes I have no point. I was simply sharing an experience I had and my own thoughts. When did I ever bring up ANYTHING about purification?
-
I'll admit I have definitely been premature in my willingness to adhere to the Sunnah. I really am not going through all these posts and answer every single little question I would have to sit down for an hour to answer all the individual posts where people challenged my belief in this thread so many people wrote a damn essay about the fallacies of hadith.
After just taking a look through the punishment about Islamic punishment I have already found 2 or 3 so-called "authentic" or "sahih" hadith that directly contradict the Qur'an. Doesn't really get any clearer than that...
My fear about rejecting hadith is what if some of them are true? But I don't think God will want me to adhere to any rules that are among false sayings. If God wanted me to know something wouldn't it be in the Qur'an?
I don't even know any more I'm going to just do my own thinking for a while I'm not sure what to take from that dream anymore I swear it was Muhammad(pbuh) in the dream you guys don't understand because you didn't experience what I did. I'll get back to you guys.
Here are some other ahadith to peruse
http//mesmorial.blogspot.com/
You can of course do what you wish, but I think you are still a "Qur'an-alone" Muslim who is looking for a solid base in Islam. The ahadith are history but until/if someone can prove that they have authority then none are obligatory. The 5 pillars of Islam are established using the Qur'an alone, as well as the prayer and the times. The Qur'an is clear on these points and ahadith confirm this TO A POINT. If one has faith in the Qur'an than this will be no issue.
All in all I think that you should not have said you "submitted" to anything that was not mandated by Allah (SWT) and His Qur'an.
Allah Hafiz
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Here are some other ahadith to peruse
All in all I think that you should not have said you "submitted" to anything that was not mandated by Allah (SWT) and His Qur'an.
Great point my friend. I didn't even think of it like that. The thing is though the reasoning for following the Sunnah is that the Qur'an was given to us through Muhammad from God. The hadith are also supposedly given to us through Muhammad from God.
The Qur'an however is free from corruption and doubt and has divine protection. The hadith have none of these qualities.
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Says you.... I was using that point as an analogy. You can't ask me to prove something that can't truly be proven or be disproved.
We are to believe in the unseen, but you were using the concept of faith as an excuse to believe whatever we wish. That is fine, but it was in argument form as if we should evaluate the Qur?an again. We are doing this, and if you can support your arguments based on the Qur?an when in fact there are some relevant ayat are before you, then you need to imply that we cannot prove that the Qur?an is saying what it is saying (the only way for it NOT to be saying this is for what it is saying to be false ? or a mistranslation ? which is irrelevant to the case I think. As you said "Says me".).
Cultural bandwagon? I don't even know what that means. I never said Islam was lacking something with just the Qur'an but I will concede it is implied in the idea of Sunni Islam.
You submitted to something besides the Qur?an. You also said
?I think a lot of you Qur'an aloners have the wrong idea with hadith?
?No I believe my reward will be greater for my striving.?
So you are saying that to be the best Muslim we need something more than the best hadith.
Yes I have no point. I was simply sharing an experience I had and my own thoughts. When did I ever bring up ANYTHING about purification?
You said
?Anyway as I'm walking these little rats kept eating their ways from inside my own body to come out of my body.?
How do you interpret this? If you cannot interpret it, then can you interpret the dream itself? You said
"The rats coming outside of my body represent that I was ruining myself from the inside."
Were you ruining yourself by losing the rats, or were you ruining yourself by keeping the rats inside?
Peace.
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We are to believe in the unseen, but you were using the concept of faith as an excuse to believe whatever we wish. That is fine, but it was in argument form as if we should evaluate the Qur?an again. We are doing this, and if you can support your arguments based on the Qur?an when in fact there are some relevant ayat are before you, then you need to imply that we cannot prove that the Qur?an is saying what it is saying (the only way for it NOT to be saying this is for what it is saying to be false ? or a mistranslation ? which is irrelevant to the case I think. As you said "Says me".).
You submitted to something besides the Qur?an. You also said
?I think a lot of you Qur'an aloners have the wrong idea with hadith?
?No I believe my reward will be greater for my striving.?
So you are saying that to be the best Muslim we need something more than the best hadith.
You said
?Anyway as I'm walking these little rats kept eating their ways from inside my own body to come out of my body.?
How do you interpret this? If you cannot interpret it, then can you interpret the dream itself? You said
"The rats coming outside of my body represent that I was ruining myself from the inside."
Were you ruining yourself by losing the rats, or were you ruining yourself by keeping the rats inside?
Peace.
Uhhh my statement had nothing to do with interpretation of verses. My statement was how can you ever prove or disprove that the Qur'an is from God? You can't. Rationally and logically you cannot prove to a disbeliever or atheist person that this book comes from God. If there was earthly evidence for that then everyone would be a Muslim.
The same same goes for the hadith no one has been able to definitively and truly disprove the amount of truth in hadith or no one would be a Sunni.
And again I never once said anything about purification you guys are the one who pulled that from my dream not me. I don't need to answer every single of the numerous statements in this topic because I'm not out to prove or disprove anything.
And just because something isn't the Qur'an doesn't mean it can't have wisdom. Divine wisdom isn't the only wisdom and I can learn from my parents, my siblings, the crazy drunk bum down the street, or even a movie may show me something true about life I'd never considered before.
Which is what I mean when I say Qur'an aloners have the wrong idea about hadith. Someone who adheres to a certain hadith may just like what it says and/or believe it exemplifies Islamic values, it certainly doesn't mean something ridiculous and untrue like they worship Muhammad(pbuh).
Whether or not these hadiths came from the mouth of the Prophet or not, whether or not they hold any religious authority, if it allows someone to connect or feel closer to God I see no problem in people following hadith if they aren't harmful or detrimental to other people.
Nor do I have the audacity and gall to say they aren't Muslims.
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When I was Christian, I used to have heaps of trippy dreams. And if I took them as real...wel I'd stil b a Christian. Lol. N e ways, now u take this dream as authority, as wel as Hadith, good 4 u. Following Quran is more logic though...
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Salaam Faithful-Jinn,
I just want to share my thoughts regarding your circumstances. I just want you to stop for a second, and ponder over the story of Prophet Ibrahim, who dealt with a dream in one stage of his life. Prophet Ibrahim got a vision of his son being sacrificed, and he decided to act upon his dream. He believed that the dream was a sign from God, and when he tried to execute his dream, God stopped him. Of course, you can argue that this story can be interpreted in several ways. One interpretation is that Prophet Ibrahim was being tested by God, to see if he was obedient to God. Another can argue that what Prophet Ibrahim saw was merely a dream and God stopped him before he committed a grave mistake. I personally believe in the latter because God will test his servants through following His commandments, and not breaking them. In this case, it is illogical that God would ask Prophet Ibrahim to slaughter an innocent person. Anyway, what I am trying to convey by using the story of Prophet Ibrahim, is that our dream is not necessarily the truth, nor that is a sign from God. Prophet Ibrahim?s dream and the end result, were different. Prophet Ibrahim believed that his dream meant that God commanded him to sacrifice his son, but in the end, it did not turn out like that. God stopped him. The dream was not a sign (in my opinion anyway).
Also, the story of Prophet Yusuf came to my mind. He is portrayed to be able to interpret dreams. What you may want to consider is that Prophet Yusuf did not interpret his dreams too literally. He perceived the pressing of wine of one prisoner to mean that this prisoner would be freed and raised in rank where he would have the opportunity to pour drinks to the kind. For another prisoner?s dream of carrying on his head bread which birds would be eating, Prophet Yusuf interpreted that to mean he would be executed and became birds? food (for lack of a better word). Additionally, the king dreamed of seven lean cows eating seven fat ones, and seven green corn ears and seven other ones. We observe that Prophet Yusuf?s interpretation was not literal at all. Instead of saying that in the future seven lean cows would be eating seven fat ones etc, he expounded that there would be seven years of normal harvest, in which the crop should be stored to accommodate the seven hard years that would follow. As I see it, dreams do not necessarily have literal meanings, as illustrated by Prophet Yusuf?s tale. They can have different meanings.
In your case, if the person in your dream is REALLY Prophet Muhammad, it does not necessarily mean you have to believe the compiled sayings of Prophet Muhammad, and his life accounts. Because really, they were compiled a few hundred years after his death. Dreams may lie, and be misleading. Prophet Ibrahim carried out his dream with conviction, and he was stopped by God. Anyway, I personally believe that the Qur?an commands us to reflect upon His clear signs, by witnessing the wonder of His creations. The key here is to be conscious while bring ourselves closer to Him.
That being said, as you have clearly made up your mind, there is not much I can say to convince you otherwise. As Brother Pel has said, no compulsion in religion. However, if I can give you a word or two; when you practice the Sunnah, make sure that you make God your sole focus, and not set out partner besides him. There are some good aspects of Sunnism that are just traditions and not necessarily transgress Qur?anic boundaries if you devote it to God alone, without the slightest intention to please Prophet Muhammad. Be sure that you strive to exercise God?s laws, by doing righteous deeds to better develop yourself and the environment around you, and not by becoming a mere physical imitation of Prophet Muhammad as perceived by the traditionalists. I hope in whatever you do, you find peace and spread peace to the people around you (and not fall to sectarianism). If by chance you feel drawn back here, we will always welcome you.
Salaam.
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Salaam Faithful-Jinn,
I just want to share my thoughts regarding your circumstances. I just want you to stop for a second, and ponder over the story of Prophet Ibrahim, who dealt with a dream in one stage of his life. Prophet Ibrahim got a vision of his son being sacrificed, and he decided to act upon his dream. He believed that the dream was a sign from God, and when he tried to execute his dream, God stopped him. Of course, you can argue that this story can be interpreted in several ways. One interpretation is that Prophet Ibrahim was being tested by God, to see if he was obedient to God. Another can argue that what Prophet Ibrahim saw was merely a dream and God stopped him before he committed a grave mistake. I personally believe in the latter because God will test his servants through following His commandments, and not breaking them. In this case, it is illogical that God would ask Prophet Ibrahim to slaughter an innocent person. Anyway, what I am trying to convey by using the story of Prophet Ibrahim, is that our dream is not necessarily the truth, nor that is a sign from God. Prophet Ibrahim?s dream and the end result, were different. Prophet Ibrahim believed that his dream meant that God commanded him to sacrifice his son, but in the end, it did not turn out like that. God stopped him. The dream was not a sign (in my opinion anyway).
Also, the story of Prophet Yusuf came to my mind. He is portrayed to be able to interpret dreams. What you may want to consider is that Prophet Yusuf did not interpret his dreams too literally. He perceived the pressing of wine of one prisoner to mean that this prisoner would be freed and raised in rank where he would have the opportunity to pour drinks to the kind. For another prisoner?s dream of carrying on his head bread which birds would be eating, Prophet Yusuf interpreted that to mean he would be executed and became birds? food (for lack of a better word). Additionally, the king dreamed of seven lean cows eating seven fat ones, and seven green corn ears and seven other ones. We observe that Prophet Yusuf?s interpretation was not literal at all. Instead of saying that in the future seven lean cows would be eating seven fat ones etc, he expounded that there would be seven years of normal harvest, in which the crop should be stored to accommodate the seven hard years that would follow. As I see it, dreams do not necessarily have literal meanings, as illustrated by Prophet Yusuf?s tale. They can have different meanings.
In your case, if the person in your dream is REALLY Prophet Muhammad, it does not necessarily mean you have to believe the compiled sayings of Prophet Muhammad, and his life accounts. Because really, they were compiled a few hundred years after his death. Dreams may lie, and be misleading. Prophet Ibrahim carried out his dream with conviction, and he was stopped by God. Anyway, I personally believe that the Qur?an commands us to reflect upon His clear signs, by witnessing the wonder of His creations. The key here is to be conscious while bring ourselves closer to Him.
That being said, as you have clearly made up your mind, there is not much I can say to convince you otherwise. As Brother Pel has said, no compulsion in religion. However, if I can give you a word or two; when you practice the Sunnah, make sure that you make God your sole focus, and not set out partner besides him. There are some good aspects of Sunnism that are just traditions and not necessarily transgress Qur?anic boundaries if you devote it to God alone, without the slightest intention to please Prophet Muhammad. Be sure that you strive to exercise God?s laws, by doing righteous deeds to better develop yourself and the environment around you, and not by becoming a mere physical imitation of Prophet Muhammad as perceived by the traditionalists. I hope in whatever you do, you find peace and spread peace to the people around you (and not fall to sectarianism). If by chance you feel drawn back here, we will always welcome you.
Salaam.
Well like I said in my previous post I've decided not to jump into Sunnism after further reflection. That would be far too haphazard a reaction to this dream but the power of this dream was very thought provoking I'm still not sure what to make of it.
I originally thought I had the dream because I was supposed to follow the Sunnah. Maybe that was the purpose but I should follow the Sunnah using the Qur'an. The thing that immediately shook me up after the dream is I thought of the hadith I quoted earlier and I figured if I dreamt about the Prophet(pbuh) then the hadith must be true. Not sure what to make of all this anymore.
All I know is I prayed for a dream from God and I received a dream where the Prophet appeared to me. So now I'm like now what lol.
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Salaam Jinn,
Well like I said in my previous post I've decided not to jump into Sunnism after further reflection. That would be far too haphazard a reaction to this dream but the power of this dream was very thought provoking I'm still not sure what to make of it.
I originally thought I had the dream because I was supposed to follow the Sunnah. Maybe that was the purpose but I should follow the Sunnah using the Qur'an. The thing that immediately shook me up after the dream is I thought of the hadith I quoted earlier and I figured if I dreamt about the Prophet(pbuh) then the hadith must be true. Not sure what to make of all this anymore.
All I know is I prayed for a dream from God and I received a dream where the Prophet appeared to me. So now I'm like now what lol.
First of all, dream is just a dream, it could be anything.
And your dream does not tally with any of the dreams in AlQuraan .
Secondly, Allah did not said in AlQuraan that if you saw Prophet Mohammed (AS) in your dream, you have seen him in real. nope
So, how can you suddenly jump to that believe.
Thirdly, you could not able to interpret your dream properly.
You were a submitter to Allah strongly, so you were a lion in your dream. And since 6-8 months you were thinking of whether to follow hadith or not, those are the rats in your body who were cutting you from inside. And finally a rat came out of your body from the back that was a hadith saying that if you see Prophet in your dream that means you have seen him in real.
I did not understand why you asked Allah to show you a DREAM, instead you could ask to show the CORRECT PATH . Allah would have guided you towards it.
Look at the examples of all the Prophets mentioned in AlQuraan / AlKitaab whether any of them asked their people to follow their sunna after them? Everyone of them just asked "Ati Allaha wa Ati-oon" that means "Obey Allah and Obey Me" it is only possible until they were alive.
If their Sunnas have to be stored then what is the use to sending other messengers/prophets to the same people?
Brother, look carefully about the interpretation I made of your dream, inshaAllah, you will understand.
And ask Allah for the TRUE GUIDANCE, He is the all Listener and all Knower. Hold Him tight, inshaAllah you will not get astray.
May Allah guide us all towards Him pr
Mohammed M. Khan