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  4. -=[ Correction/Modification to FM Translation of AlQuraan ]=-

-=[ Correction/Modification to FM Translation of AlQuraan ]=-

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  • The_SardarT Offline
    The_SardarT Offline
    The_Sardar
    wrote on last edited by
    #185

    Yes, but with the corpus quran transliteration style. This kind of quran and a book of the project root list would be a great english Quran study tool

    That would be interesting.

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    • R Offline
      R Offline
      Rilum
      wrote on last edited by
      #186

      1051 Did you not note what your Lord did to the companions of the
      elephant(l-fli)?

      I think in this Sura Luts People are meant. Maybe fl means here weakness or erroneous view.

      Root fa-ya-lam

      "HomeCollections/TextsPerseus CatalogResearchGrantsOpen SourceAboutHelp
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      fyl

      1 , aor. , (S, M, O, K,) inf. n. , (S,) thus in some copies of the K and in the A, (TA,) or , (M, O,) thus in other copies of the K, (TA,) and , thus in the O, but in the copies of the K , (TA,) His judgment, or opinion, was weak, (S, M, O, K,) and erroneous; (M, K as also ; (M, Z, K, TA and he was incorrect in his judgment, or opinion; and occurs in a trad. as meaning (TA) and one says, , (T, M, K, TA,) the last word like , (TA, ) and , (M, K, TA,) meaning a weakness. (TA.) -A2- And signifies also He (a man) magnified himself, and became like the elephant ( or he showed a morose aspect (TA) [or it may so signify IAar cites the following verse ?
      "

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      • LaythL Offline
        LaythL Offline
        Layth
        wrote on last edited by
        #187

        Salam Rilum,

        Here are some of the corrections as suggested in your posts

        1111 Condemned are the hands of the firebrand; condemned.
        1112 His money will not avail him, nor what he has earned.
        1113 He will be sent to a flaming fire.
        1114 And his wife who carries the logs.
        1115 Within her elegance, is a rope of thorns.

        748 Then, when the piercing sound is made.

        2710 & 2831

        This is a bit tricky as "Jaan" is Arabic and using it would not render a viable meaning (I have kept "Jinn" throughout). The only idea I can think of is to use "Jinni" for singular?

        1082 Therefore, you shall commune to your Lord, and sacrifice (in'ar).

        I see "sacrifice" as viable here, especially when looking at 2215 which also speaks of "cutting" when raising an issue to God.

        1051 Did you not note what your Lord did to the companions of the elephant(l-fli)?

        I agree with you this is most likely the people of Lot. But 'elephant' is the most viable rendition as it seems to be a symbol in the region as found in Nabataen ruins uncovered in northern Arabia.

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        • R Offline
          R Offline
          Rilum
          wrote on last edited by
          #188

          Salam Layth,

          1115 Why elegance and 748 why piercing sound? Why not clicked in the clicking device?

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          • R Offline
            R Offline
            Rilum
            wrote on last edited by
            #189

            7310 And be patient over what they say, and depart from them in a
            good manner

            I would suggest And patient over what they say and avoid(depart from them), an avoidance (departure) gracious cf Corpus Quran.

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            • R Offline
              R Offline
              Rilum
              wrote on last edited by
              #190

              43 And if you fear that you cannot be equitable to the orphans, then
              you may marry (fa-inki&#363 those who are agreeable to you of the women two,
              and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only
              one, or whom you are committed to by your oath. This is best that
              you do not face financial hardship.

              fa-inki means to let them marry, fa-inka would be to marry. The verb is in form 4

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              • R Offline
                R Offline
                Rilum
                wrote on last edited by
                #191

                44 And give the women their dues (aduqtihinna) willingly, and if they remit any
                of it to you of their own will, then you may take it with good
                feelings.

                Shouldn't it be "their charities"?

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                • LaythL Offline
                  LaythL Offline
                  Layth
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #192

                  Salam,

                  1115 Why elegance and 748 why piercing sound? Why not clicked in the clicking device?

                  1115 "Jeed" is given as "the beauty of the neck in length and shape". In reading that definition, I could see the verse saying that "no matter how wonderful she looked on the outside, inside her was evil"

                  748 "Naqour" is the word given to that which pierces or causes a hole. Naqar means to "drill". and Minqar is the "beak" of a bird. For example, the woodpecker is called "Naqaar". Thus I read the sound being made for the call to J-day as one that "pierces" into the very soul of people.

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                  • LaythL Offline
                    LaythL Offline
                    Layth
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #193

                    Salam,

                    43 And if you fear that you cannot be equitable to the orphans, then
                    you may marry (fa-inki&#363 those who are agreeable to you of the women two,
                    and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only
                    one, or whom you are committed to by your oath. This is best that
                    you do not face financial hardship.

                    fa-inki means to let them marry, fa-inka would be to marry. The verb is in form 4

                    That is not correct. InkIhu and InkAhu are simply variations of the sentence structure.

                    Look at 2221 or 422 to see "InkIhu" which is clearly "to marry"

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                    • R Offline
                      R Offline
                      Rilum
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #194

                      Salam, if sound was meant then God would you use the arabic word for sound. I think the word naqour is based on a rule in Arabic grammar that any verb can be changed from its root form to describe an apparatus / tool / system by placing an Alif letter (A ) and after the second letter puts a Waw (Ou)

                      make, doers
                      calculate, calculator
                      share, divisor (also the sword is named as such)
                      gather, Collected Edition, Law (Legislation)
                      help, help system

                      What do you think about my 44 translations suggestion?

                      I think to translate it to let marry in these verses is also possible.

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                      • I Offline
                        I Offline
                        IsaMuslim
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #195

                        Salaam,
                        I suggest in verses 861-2 to translate "al-tariq" in "the knocking" or "the knocking star" (like in Safi Kaskas translation), as in verse 863 it is made clear that He is talking about a star, and "knocking" and "piercing" are a correct description for a Pulsar. One of the meanings of this root is "to knock/to hammer" according to islamawakened's dictionary.
                        It is interesting, because Pulsars were discovered only in 1960s.
                        For people who want to know more details I recommend this article https//imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/science/objects/neutron_stars1.html
                        God bless you.

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                        • I Offline
                          I Offline
                          ibn_a
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #196

                          Salaam Layth,

                          7228
                          So that He knows that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He surrounds all that is with them, and He has counted the number of all things.

                          (so as) to make manifest that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He surrounds all that is with them, and He has counted the number of all things.

                          From Asad translation .

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                          • I Offline
                            I Offline
                            IsaMuslim
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #197

                            Salaam

                            I suggest in verse 416 to translate "wa alladhani ya`tiyaniha" from "And the two men who commit it" to "And those two who commit it" because the gender of the two is not specified, and constrains the reader in interpreting this and the previous verses in a certain way.

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                            • LaythL Offline
                              LaythL Offline
                              Layth
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #198

                              Salam,

                              Allathani is defining gender in being 2 males (416). So the translation is correct as it stands.

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                              • R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Rilum
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #199

                                No it does not, IsaMuslim is right. It can also mean man and woman, not necessarily 2 men.

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                                • The_SardarT Offline
                                  The_SardarT Offline
                                  The_Sardar
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #200

                                  No it does not, IsaMuslim is right. It can also mean man and woman, not necessarily 2 men.

                                  I agree wa-alladhni (&#1606 is in masculine dual relative pronoun which means both gender.

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                                  • I Offline
                                    I Offline
                                    IsaMuslim
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #201

                                    I found an interesting note supporting "two men" in the website of Joseph Islam

                                    In verse 416, the Arabic word used is 'alladhani' which is a masculine dual pronoun. Albeit, this can refer to a mixed gender group (a male and a female), it most likely refers to two men in this context. This is supported by the context of the previous verse which refers to and addresses women (415). Furthermore, some assert the duality of verse 416 as a reference to 'two guilty parties' of 415. This is also implausible given the plural context of the guilty women in verse 415, the structure of the argument of the verse and the punishment instructed. Verse 416 is also very unlikely to be a reference to illicit heterosexual relationships as this matter is firmly dealt with in verse 242. Therefore, verse 416 with the use of the dual masculine pronoun is most likely a reference to two men which is primarily supported by context.

                                    http//quransmessage.com/articles/homosexuality

                                    But I don't know if his reasoning on the context excluding it is correct; I have read other interpretations on context, such as Edip Yuksel's, that fit perfectly if considering "alladhani" the two guilty parties of 415.

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                                    • The_SardarT Offline
                                      The_SardarT Offline
                                      The_Sardar
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #202

                                      But I don't know if his reasoning on the context excluding it is correct; I have read other interpretations on context, such as Edip Yuksel's, that fit perfectly if considering "alladhani" the two guilty parties of 415.

                                      Salam this is what Edip Yuksel said about 415 & 16

                                      415

                                      The relative pronoun in this verse is allati, which refers to a group of women. It indicates an organized prostitution, which might pose a grave health problem for the society. In a society that accepted the jurisdiction of the Quran, if a woman is proven four times to be involved in promiscuous sexual activity, she is considered a hazard to the society and should be quarantined. Perhaps there is also an implication for our time, where genetic identification helps us to find the real father of a child. Our genes are made of various combinations of four acid molecules Adenine, Guanine, Cytosine, and Thiamine. These four molecules, which are made of four different elements, function as witnesses for the identity of individuals to which they belong. The Quran does not necessarily require the witness to be an eyewitness. For instance, we bear witness to the oneness of God via our intelligence. The witness mentioned in 1226 is not considered a witness because he was present during the alleged incident. That witness did not say, "I saw with my eyes." The human witness mentioned in that story is proposing the testimony of circumstantial evidence, and logical conclusions based on both inductive and deductive reasoning. In other words, the Quran accepts the testimony of reliable circumstantial evidence just as it accepts the testimony of a reliable eyewitness.

                                      416

                                      The relative pronoun is not marked; the male dual form allazani (both) includes the female partner. In this case, it appears that the illegal or extramarital sexual affair is monogamous. For the punishment of the adulterers, see 241.

                                      You can check in http//quranix.org/4#15 for verification, click on the red numbers to see the translators notes.

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                                      • R Offline
                                        R Offline
                                        Rilum
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #203

                                        425And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the emancipated
                                        female believers, then from those committed to by your oath
                                        of the believing young women. And God is more aware of your
                                        faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with
                                        the permission of their parents, and give them their dowries in
                                        kindness. To be emancipated (mu'antin)?not for illicit sex or taking lovers.
                                        Once they are emancipated(u'inna), then any of them who comes with
                                        an immorality shall have half of what is upon those already
                                        emancipated of the punishment. This is for those who fear a
                                        hardship from among you, but if you are patient it is better for
                                        you. And God is Forgiver, Merciful.

                                        I think you cant use emancipate here, as the root means to protect or to guard.

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                                        • The_SardarT Offline
                                          The_SardarT Offline
                                          The_Sardar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #204

                                          425And whoever of you cannot afford to marry the emancipated
                                          female believers, then from those committed to by your oath
                                          of the believing young women. And God is more aware of your
                                          faith, some of you to each other. You shall marry them with
                                          the permission of their parents, and give them their dowries in
                                          kindness. To be emancipated (mu'antin)?not for illicit sex or taking lovers.
                                          Once they are emancipated(u'inna), then any of them who comes with
                                          an immorality shall have half of what is upon those already
                                          emancipated of the punishment. This is for those who fear a
                                          hardship from among you, but if you are patient it is better for
                                          you. And God is Forgiver, Merciful.

                                          I think you cant use emancipate here, as the root means to protect or to guard.

                                          Bold

                                          Ha-Sad-Nun = To be guarded, be inaccessible/unapproachable, be chaste, be strongly fortified, difficult to access, be preserved, be protected (against attack), abstain from what is not lawful nor decorous, preserve or guard a thing in places inaccessible/unapproachable, make or render a thing inaccessible or unapproachable or difficult to access, make/render a thing unattainable by reason of its height, to fortify oneself.

                                          husun n.m. (pl. of husn) 592

                                          hassana vb. (2) pcple. pass. 5914

                                          ahsana vb. (4)
                                          perf. act. 2191, 6612
                                          impf. act. 1248, 2180
                                          impf. pass. 425
                                          pcple. act. 424, 55
                                          pcple. pass. f. 424, 425, 425, 425, 55, 55, 244, 2423

                                          tahassana vb. (5) n.vb. 2433

                                          Lane's Lexicon, Volume 2, page 222, 223 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=7Sn

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