Masturbation
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Stop freaking quoting this
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
This has nothing to do with masturbation, nor dirty thoughts
apparent - that others know
concealed - that do not knowSo how do you know that is does not also mean apparent to/concealed from oneself? A real Muslim will still play it safe. So you say that thoughts of dirty things are not dirty thoughts? Explain. You make the mistake again of taking the thoughts and the act separately. For example maybe the ayah does not explicitly include thinking nor masturbation on their own, but when you let the thoughts lead you to masturbation then the thoughts manifest themselves and the manifestation becomes obviously the result of an intention to do it. They just go hand-in-hand (and if you do not NEED to then you will not makes excuses!) If you do it, you should ask forgiveness (though if you did not have to that may or may not help much).
Giving in to temptation is the way of disbelief. Thus one should guard one?s thoughts (22). It is really guarding against the punishment of Allah (SWT) by adhering to the Qur?an.
Whatever isn't prohibited in Quran therefore its not prohibited, its either halal or middle way. And by masturbating you don't break the chastity or guard, thats stupid. Your whole comments are stupid.
You get tempted to do it for real, thats why you should not think about it, but logic a little, if you're sure you're not gonna do what you think if you have the chance to do that, there's nothing wrong.
Why are people told to judge by the Qur?an if we do not need to apply principles? E.g. can we eat human meat because it is not prohibited in the relevant ayat? No, because we are to eat the good things. Likewise sexual acts are with the specified people. Can we perform oral sex with anyone because we assume chastity refers to nikah (by this logic masturbation of oneself is not much different) or because it is ?not? explicitly haram? If two unmarried people masturbate each other, that is indecent, and how if performing the same act on oneself not drawing nigh to that? You are accountable for your thoughts if you let them lead to action. You quote the ayah 2284 on its own, but it actually came as part of a larger explanation which addressed your response to it
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
We should not even think about these things because impure thoughts (though concealed) lead to impure impulses. If then we fall to temptation, we should ask forgiveness (2286). Just because our thoughts and associated actions are concealed, it does not mean we are not accountable for intentions
??and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it.?
2284
(i.e. if you cannot explain away 6151 then you cannot explain away 2284).
Explain to me exactly why you would masturbate if you do not think sexual thoughts? Explain then why masturbation is better than salaat or fasting (or actively remembering Him some other way)?
Zina = adultery NOT fornication, thats a mistranslate, and you cant go near it by thinking, you go near it when you intend doing it, and you're close to do it, not thinking about doing it.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina_%28Arabic%29
Well you go near indecencies which go near acts that go nigh to fornication. 733 prohibits them anyway
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=33
So is thinking about another person indecently not shameful or indecent for you? That violates 22, and even the willingness to think and act on these ideas means that you are deliberately disrespecting Allah (SWT). We are only human, but that is partly why we must remember Him standing, sitting and lying (3191). It gives us the greatest chance to develop ourselves, and ?harmless pleasure? is not an excuse because the devil makes foul deeds (and the thoughts that go with them) seem fair (e.g. 2212, 314, 848 and 1012).
A QUESTION YOU MUST NOW ANSWER
Is fornication halal or ?midway? for you? That is the only reason your statement would be relevant!
MesMorial Thinking about fornication in conjunction with the act is inclining towards it. Enjoying the act is welcoming the lure of the same (fulfilment of) temptations which fornication offers.
HHAHAHHAHAH, are you freaking serious?
Why do kafirs have sex? They can just masturbate instead.. cos its the same pleasure? lmfao... you probably haven't had sex or masturbated before otherwise you wouldn't say this.
It would not be credible for you to label anyone else kufr. Here is a quote from one of your threads, and since you come from a Muslim family it is surprising that you know the difference between sex and masturbation (at this young age!)
S.A, I'm 13
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602230.0
Are you sure you are fine? Please do not tell others to ?cut the ****?.
Anyway, notice I placed ?fulfilment of? in parentheses. This is because people have sex for climax whilst the rest is the enjoyment of foreplay made so by the sexual urge deriving from that area.
And no masturbating is not indecency, and i don't care about your definition of dirty, for someone dirty can mean eating pancakes, i don't care the way you see it.
[Nor do I care. My stance is still that it is inadvisable for the reasons provided (and even only being ?inadvisable?, a true Muslim still will not do it if they do not have to (and they will ask forgiveness)), and since you still persist in arrogance there is nothing that I can say to cause you to ponder. That is your choice.
Peace.
P.S. Some proof that thoughts and attitude matter
?Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.?
2430
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"a true Muslim still will not do it if they do not have to (and they will ask forgiveness)"
I love it when people start talking about what the ''true Muslim", "the real Muslim'' would do. No, wait....no, I don't love that.
PS I guess many true Muslims just ''have'' to do it a lot.
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"a true Muslim still will not do it if they do not have to (and they will ask forgiveness)"
I love it when people start talking about what the ''true Muslim", "the real Muslim'' would do. No, wait....no, I don't love that.
PS I guess many true Muslims just ''have'' to do it a lot.
By defintion, "have to" means "have to". As for what the "true Muslim" would do, see 2256.
The Qur?an is the truth (e.g. 240-42, 291, 2119, 2147, 2176, 548, 16102).
Peace.
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The Qur?an is the truth
But you necessarily aren't. You do see that right? You do accept that you are not the quran come alive, right? Do you understand that concept?
Your pasting verses, even gleaning personal (yes, personal subjective) principles from verses does not change that fact. Your posts contain your own presuppositions, assumptions, commentary, and opinions, in addition to actual verses pasted. In spite of how many times you say you employ "tangible" principles, "logic," and make "obvious" connections, you can still never get around that fact. You are not nearly as objective as you think. No need to be offended; no one is wholly objective.
You are not the quran. Stop acting like you are. Got it?
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But you necessarily aren't. You do see that right? You do accept that you are not the quran come alive, right? Do you understand that concept?
Your pasting verses, even gleaning personal (yes, personal subjective) principles from verses does not change that fact. Your posts contain your own presuppositions, assumptions, commentary, and opinions, in addition to actual verses pasted. In spite of how many times you say you employ "tangible" principles, "logic," and make "obvious" connections, you can still never get around that fact. You are not nearly as objective as you think. No need to be offended; no one is wholly objective.
You are not the quran. Stop acting like you are. Got it?
I am the only one using the Qur?an to derive my arguments. It may be better to rephrase your emotional comment with more clarity (e.g. you might re-write it as ?Yes, the Qur?an is the truth and thus we should use that as our benchmark and argument rather than our inclinations or preferences on what is advisable?).
I have admitted even in my own postings that there is nothing definite, (though if you interpret some things certain ways then it will become haram ? and I can accept that). However the evidence in favour of me is clear.
If you are offended, then you do not have to use this forum. Or people can answer my requests for explanations! Just a small truth.
Peace.
P.S. Stop acting like victims. That wastes badnwidth and contributes nothing.
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I am the only one using the Qur?an to derive my arguments. It may be better to rephrase your emotional comment with more clarity (e.g. you might re-write it as ?Yes, the Qur?an is the truth and thus we should use that as our benchmark and argument rather than our inclinations or preferences on what is advisable?).
Nope. That's your opinion. Others use the quran in a way which you disagree with. You somehow equate that to them not using the quran at all.
I have admitted even in my own postings that there is nothing definite, (though if you interpret some things certain ways then it will become haram ? and I can accept that). However the evidence in favour of me is clear.
I don't care about your lip service. Don't try to retroactively soften your language.
If you are offended, then you do not have to use this forum. Or people can answer my requests for explanations! Just a small truth.
Peace.
P.S. Stop acting like victims. That wastes badnwidth and contributes nothing.
Not offended. Not a victim. You just need to be put into your place. And others need to see it.
You are not God's mouthpiece. You're a cocky young kid who thinks he has everything figured out, and has no trouble proclaiming that to everyone. Views counter to yours -- not the quran's, but yours -- will be posted. Deal with it.
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Nope. That's your opinion. Others use the quran in a way which you disagree with. You somehow equate that to them not using the quran at all.
I don't care about your lip service. Don't try to retroactively soften your language.
Not offended. Not a victim. You just need to be put into your place. And others need to see it.
You are not God's mouthpiece. You're a cocky young kid who thinks he has everything figured out, and has no trouble proclaiming that to everyone. Views counter to yours -- not the quran's, but yours -- will be posted. Deal with it.
Nope. That's your opinion. Others use the quran in a way which you disagree with. You somehow equate that to them not using the quran at all.
The Qur?an has been used sparingly by others. If they do, then I am entitled to bring verse to refute )
I don't care about your lip service. Don't try to retroactively soften your language.
I am not softening. I said what I said, and I also said it could be considered haram by certain interpretations at critical states. Do not misquote.
Not offended. Not a victim. You just need to be put into your place. And others need to see it.
You are not God's mouthpiece. You're a cocky young kid who thinks he has everything figured out, and has no trouble proclaiming that to everyone. Views counter to yours -- not the quran's, but yours -- will be posted. Deal with it.
A victim of your own idea of importance. If you ever want to put me in my place, let me know when I have been because I might miss it. It is OK. Some of us are better at some things than others, and if arguing is not your thing then that?s no matter.
You do understand I can see through emotional polemics of bruised egos? I should be angry or experiencing at least some feeling that tells me you are right (if you are right!). I forgot that you have no point.
Peace.
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The Qur?an has been used sparingly by others. If they do, then I am entitled to bring verse to refute
It has been used less by others precisely because it is the view of many that the quran has precious little to say on this particular subject. This very obvious fact seems to have gone over your rookie head.
I am not softening. I said what I said, and I also said it could be considered haram by certain interpretations at critical states. Do not misquote.
I didn't even quote you so it's not possible for me to misquote you. I don't need to be spoonfed an understanding of your posts by you. Any reasonably competent reader can see your words for what they are. The implications are clear.
A victim of your own idea of importance. If you ever want to put me in my place, let me know when I have been because I might miss it. It is OK. Some of us are better at some things than others, and if arguing is not your thing then that?s no matter.
You do understand I can see through emotional polemics of bruised egos? I should be angry or experiencing at least some feeling that tells me you are right (if you are right!). I forgot that you have no point.
Peace.
Empty, baseless armchair psychology. Hilariously stupid insults too. Amateur hour.
I'll now leave you to your masturbation. Mental, not physical of course.
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It has been used less by others precisely because it is the view of many that the quran has precious little to say on this particular subject. This very obvious fact seems to have gone over your rookie head.
I didn't even quote you so it's not possible for me to misquote you. I don't need to be spoonfed an understanding of your posts by you. Any reasonably competent reader can see your words for what they are. The implications are clear.
Empty, baseless armchair psychology. Hilariously stupid insults too. Amateur hour.
I'll now leave you to your masturbation. Mental, not physical of course.
It has been used less by others precisely because it is the view of many that the quran has precious little to say on this particular subject. This very obvious fact seems to have gone over your rookie head.
And I have responded to each of the scarce times that it has been used (as I said). The Qur?an has precious little to say on erotic fiction also.
I didn't even quote you so it's not possible for me to misquote you. I don't need to be spoonfed an understanding of your posts by you. Any reasonably competent reader can see your words for what they are. The implications are clear.
But impossible to express because as you admitted, your only purpose here is to ?put me in my place? (i.e. exercise your own spite). You accuse me of changing my words, so I accuse you of changing them. You overprice my words (whilst attempting to undervalue them), so ?quote? is quite appropriate.
Empty, baseless armchair psychology. Hilariously stupid insults too. Amateur hour.
I'll now leave you to your masturbation. Mental, not physical of course.
Indeed, yours were. That is why I passed over them.
Peace.
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And I have responded to each of the scarce times that it has been used (as I said). The Qur?an has precious little to say on erotic fiction also.
Erotic fiction even. Thorough 'research'.
But impossible to express because as you admitted, your only purpose here is to ?put me in my place? (i.e. exercise your own spite). You accuse me of changing my words, so I accuse you of changing them. You overprice my words (whilst attempting to undervalue them), so ?quote? is quite appropriate.
It's 'obvious' amirite. Way to go with the selective reading and deliberate out of context spin.
Let's play "A 'discussion' with Mesmorial"
X Stop with the tenuous connections, you can't make things say what they don't say.
Mesmorial Ah but you are a fool, it's 'obvious' you are utterly devoid of logic. I can make any connection I want. Give me a subject!
X Alright, goats.
Mesmorial 8031-32. Goats love carrots. God said so. They shouldn't eat grain. If you feed them grain, it will be a slippery slope towards goat doom, and ultimately all of us.
X Right.
Indeed, yours were. That is why I passed over them.
Let's play "how many times can we say ironic" in this thread. Not Byronic or whatever tenuous connection springs from that. Probably something to do with masturbation causing syphilis in some mythical world in Mesmorial's head. -
So how do you know that is does not also mean apparent to/concealed from oneself? A real Muslim will still play it safe. So you say that thoughts of dirty things are not dirty thoughts? Explain. You make the mistake again of taking the thoughts and the act separately. For example maybe the ayah does not explicitly include thinking nor masturbation on their own, but when you let the thoughts lead you to masturbation then the thoughts manifest themselves and the manifestation becomes obviously the result of an intention to do it. They just go hand-in-hand (and if you do not NEED to then you will not makes excuses!) If you do it, you should ask forgiveness (though if you did not have to that may or may not help much).
. It is really guarding against the punishment of Allah (SWT) by adhering to the Qur?an.
Why are people told to judge by the Qur?an if we do not need to apply principles? E.g. can we eat human meat because it is not prohibited in the relevant ayat? No, because we are to eat the good things. Likewise sexual acts are with the specified people. Can we perform oral sex with anyone because we assume chastity refers to nikah (by this logic masturbation of oneself is not much different) or because it is ?not? explicitly haram? If two unmarried people masturbate each other, that is indecent, and how if performing the same act on oneself not drawing nigh to that? You are accountable for your thoughts if you let them lead to action. You quote the ayah 2284 on its own, but it actually came as part of a larger explanation which addressed your response to it
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
We should not even think about these things because impure thoughts (though concealed) lead to impure impulses. If then we fall to temptation, we should ask forgiveness (2286). Just because our thoughts and associated actions are concealed, it does not mean we are not accountable for intentions
??and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it.?
2284
(i.e. if you cannot explain away 6151 then you cannot explain away 2284).
Explain to me exactly why you would masturbate if you do not think sexual thoughts? Explain then why masturbation is better than salaat or fasting (or actively remembering Him some other way)?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina_%28Arabic%29
Well you go near indecencies which go near acts that go nigh to fornication. 733 prohibits them anyway
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=7&verse=33
So is thinking about another person indecently not shameful or indecent for you? That violates 22, and even the willingness to think and act on these ideas means that you are deliberately disrespecting Allah (SWT). We are only human, but that is partly why we must remember Him standing, sitting and lying (3191). It gives us the greatest chance to develop ourselves, and ?harmless pleasure? is not an excuse because the devil makes foul deeds (and the thoughts that go with them) seem fair (e.g. 2212, 314, 848 and 1012).
A QUESTION YOU MUST NOW ANSWER
Is fornication halal or ?midway? for you? That is the only reason your statement would be relevant!
It would not be credible for you to label anyone else kufr. Here is a quote from one of your threads, and since you come from a Muslim family it is surprising that you know the difference between sex and masturbation (at this young age!)
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602230.0
Are you sure you are fine? Please do not tell others to ?cut the ****?.
Anyway, notice I placed ?fulfilment of? in parentheses. This is because people have sex for climax whilst the rest is the enjoyment of foreplay made so by the sexual urge deriving from that area.
[
Nor do I care. My stance is still that it is inadvisable for the reasons provided (and even only being ?inadvisable?, a true Muslim still will not do it if they do not have to (and they will ask forgiveness)), and since you still persist in arrogance there is nothing that I can say to cause you to ponder. That is your choice.
Peace.
P.S. Some proof that thoughts and attitude matter
?Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.?
2430
You're quoting Quran for totally something else and saying its for masturbation, like whoever opened this topic asked
Can deers drink wine?
Your answer
No, deers cant drink wine. It says here( on this imaginated verse) Snakes shouldn't drink wine.
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
?Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.?
2430
You don't unguard your private part by masturbating.
Prove masturbation is an indecency?
Now you're saying we can do salat and fast so we can remember Allah, but when did Allah told us to remember him ALWAYS? I remember him enough.
And wow, you're so sad, undermining me just because of my age, are you wanting so much to win this argument?
You keep quoting and quoting the same verses, I've already explained those before.
"O ye who believe! Forbid not (to yourselves) the good things which Allah has made lawful for you; and do not transgress the limits. Verily, Allah loves not the transgressors?
And as for fornication , it is never mentioned in Quran, Zina means ADULTERY, not fornication.
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Mesmorial If then we fall to temptation, we should ask forgiveness (2286)
I think you should ask forgiveness for trying to make lawful things unlawful.
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Mesmorial If then we fall to temptation, we should ask forgiveness (2286)
I think you should ask forgiveness for trying to make lawful things unlawful.
Why don't you grow up?
?Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.?
2430
This verse refutes everything you stand for (e.g. in your last post) because thinking dirty thoughts defeats the purpose of lowering the head (forget guarding private parts because as discussed with another person, that is an additional commandment). You ignored that.
So is fornication allowed (please answer that)?
I just proved (i.e. again) that thinking dirty thoughts is inadvisable, and that it is obligatory to guard against them. Too bad.
Peace.
P.S. You are a cocky young person confused about your thoughts. If you still want to be arrogant and silly, practice on someone dumber than you.
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Erotic fiction even. Thorough 'research'.
It's 'obvious' amirite. Way to go with the selective reading and deliberate out of context spin.
Let's play "A 'discussion' with Mesmorial"
X Stop with the tenuous connections, you can't make things say what they don't say.
Mesmorial Ah but you are a fool, it's 'obvious' you are utterly devoid of logic. I can make any connection I want. Give me a subject!
X Alright, goats.
Mesmorial 8031-32. Goats love carrots. God said so. They shouldn't eat grain. If you feed them grain, it will be a slippery slope towards goat doom, and ultimately all of us.
X Right.
Let's play "how many times can we say ironic" in this thread. Not Byronic or whatever tenuous connection springs from that. Probably something to do with masturbation causing syphilis in some mythical world in Mesmorial's head.Your assessment is as lame as your argument which you never explained. Please, grow up, mod. It is not your job to display your sad state publicly. Do you like carrots? I was wondering since goats like carrots. Your insults are like a starving goat that chews up attention before it coughs. Move on police I can write something about you if you'd like that. Take a look at my page and list of poems. What would you like??
Peace.
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If certain people want to use this thread to be bullies (i.e. nitwits without arguments that sway the "advisability" even slightly their way), please start another thread to vent your inadequacies. Such people are embarassing excuses for Muslims.
Good night.
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Why don't you grow up?
?Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.?
2430
This verse refutes everything you stand for (e.g. in your last post) because thinking dirty thoughts defeats the purpose of lowering the head (forget guarding private parts because as discussed with another person, that is an additional commandment). You ignored that.
So is fornication allowed (please answer that)?
I just proved (i.e. again) that thinking dirty thoughts is inadvisable, and that it is obligatory to guard against them. Too bad.
Peace.
P.S. You are a cocky young person confused about your thoughts. If you still want to be arrogant and silly, practice on someone dumber than you.
I cannot grow up mentally, i already have.
And you're a freaking stupid retarded annoying ignorant dumb idiot. Its not same thing imagining the thing then looking the real thing.
You smarter then me? Haha. Dream that.
I dunno about fornication yet, need more searching but i guess its not allowed, but the concept of "marriage" might be different in these days after sunnah corrupted it, then on Muhammad's time. Look some other threads for that. Marriage doesn't have to mean writing on a paper and boom married, dunno why would God ask such a thing.
P.s I dunno why you're an idiot, you cannot tell imagination from reality, why don't you go to hardcore salafi forums and post there your crazed ideas.
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This thread keeps going around and around and around and gets no where. I think it is time to agree to disagree and realize that if you think it is wrong, then don't do it. But also respect that others may think it is acceptable to do it. If it were clearly haram then the Quran would say so.
So here is a compromise. We all agree to either masturbate or not and then agree to not tell each other about it. And we all agree to wash our hands afterwards. Is this agreeable?
Just my caffeine deprived thoughts.
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace
