Masturbation
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By asking forgiveness, as I mentioned so many times.
And one would be asking for "forgiveness" because... there is (supposed to be) guilt?
Is this "guilt" the same thing that you are trying to instill to others 'so many times' in your previous posts? If not then what, will you let me know?
How about for a change, instead of the feeling of "guilt", "gratitude"? Because God knows there could be cases outside of our own little world where people are experiencing the feeling of Gratitude through the act of masturbation... (for sexual reasons, of course, not as a be all end all outlet for everything -- let's not mix other not-so-relevant issues, e.g. "refuge" has more to do with "fear/security" than anything else).
The ads do not seem to show on my computer. You may wish to tweak your settings (or download a blocker). Apologies.
Exactly, about the ads. It's just a little example of things that are just beyond our control. That "blocker" would be in my part isn't it? And so it is my responsibility (if it were that disturbing anyway). Maybe, the atmosphere of this thread would have been much better if we replace our 'you should's with 'you may wish to' as you have just demonstrated above?
No need for apologies. More importantly, no need for guilt. Just clean conscience executed in an environment free from other people's judgment would suffice for everyone with -duh- conscience. With freedom, comes honesty and with honesty, comes self-correction.
P.S. I mean, even Darth Vader eventually got back to his conscience to save his skywalkin' son
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And one would be asking for "forgiveness" because... there is (supposed to be) guilt?
?
How about for a change, instead of the feeling of "guilt", "gratitude"? Because God knows there could be cases outside of our own little world where people are experiencing the feeling of Gratitude through the act of masturbation... (for sexual reasons, of course, not as a be all end all outlet for everything -- let's not mix other not-so-relevant issues, e.g. "refuge" has more to do with "fear/security" than anything else).
?This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).?
22
We should guard everything about ourselves (including our thoughts since they lead to temptation).
If you want to think dirty thoughts, then think again. Indecent thoughts are indecencies, and we should be remembering Allah (SWT) instead (3191). If one absolutely feels that they need to release, they should ask for forgiveness before and after (2286).
?O you who believe! do not follow the footsteps of the Shaitan, and whoever follows the footsteps of the Shaitan, then surely he bids the doing of indecency and evil; and were it not for Allah's grace upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have ever been pure, but Allah purifies whom He pleases; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.?
2421
The devil desires you to think lewd thoughts and to enjoy them
?Shaitan threatens you with poverty and enjoins on you immorality, and Allah promises you forgiveness from Himself and abundance; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.?
2268
Kindly explain how deliberately thinking dirty thoughts is not dirty. If you can do that then perhaps you can explain why we should not ask forgiveness. You admitted that masturbation is for sexual pleasure, and you have no substance. Finally, tell me where in the Qur?an it talks about little green men enjoying masturbation.
Exactly, about the ads. It's just a little example of things that are just beyond our control. That "blocker" would be in my part isn't it? And so it is my responsibility (if it were that disturbing anyway). Maybe, the atmosphere of this thread would have been much better if we replace our 'you should's with 'you may wish to' as you have just demonstrated above?
If the cartoon is disturbing to you, you should and develop your iman (that would indeed be your problem). Thankyou but there is currently no reason to change my wording.
No need for apologies. More importantly, no need for guilt. Just clean conscience executed in an environment free from other people's judgment would suffice for everyone with -duh- conscience. With freedom, comes honesty and with honesty, comes self-correction.
There was no need, but I thought it might cheer you up. Again
?O you who believe! do not follow the footsteps of the Shaitan, and whoever follows the footsteps of the Shaitan, then surely he bids the doing of indecency and evil; and were it not for Allah's grace upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have ever been pure, but Allah purifies whom He pleases; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.?
2421
The devil desires you to think lewd thoughts and to enjoy them
?Shaitan threatens you with poverty and enjoins on you immorality, and Allah promises you forgiveness from Himself and abundance; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.?
2268
Saying that you can masturbate with dirty thoughts simply because you want to is a regression in this discourse.
P.S. I mean, even Darth Vader eventually got back to his conscience to save his skywalkin' son
It is up to your own conscience. The choice is quite clear (2256-257).
Salaam.
P.S.
15 applies to all situations of stress. E.g. some people addicted to drugs can go into a "panic" without them.
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All your shoulds considered, i'm quite comfortable with my own conscience, thank you. )
?This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).?
22
We should guard everything about ourselves (including our thoughts since they lead to temptation).
If you want to think dirty thoughts
Let's stop there. As in any discussion, definition makes the foundation.
- Please define/explain what do you mean by "dirty thoughts"
- Please also explain how does that come into our discussion, when in fact, i have never mentioned such thing.
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- Dirty thoughts
?And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.?
1732
Since fornication is indecent and evil, so are thoughts about it and any thoughts which go nigh unto it.
- Of course you never mentioned such a thing. You mentioned what came under the category
Because God knows there could be cases outside of our own little world where people are experiencing the feeling of Gratitude through the act of masturbation... (for sexual reasons, of course, not as a be all end all outlet for everything -- let's not mix other not-so-relevant issues, e.g. "refuge" has more to do with "fear/security" than anything else).
In order to bring your own attention to the act, you have to have a reason to think about it and the pleasure that you will receive.
Peace.
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- Dirty thoughts
?And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.?
1732
Since fornication is indecent and evil, so are thoughts about it and any thoughts which go nigh unto it.
- Of course you never mentioned such a thing. You mentioned what came under the category
In order to bring your own attention to the act, you have to have a reason to think about it and the pleasure that you will receive.
Peace.
A better translation of 1732
And do not come near to adultery; surely it has been an obscenity and odious as a way.
How can you come near adultery(zina) by thoughts?
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Since fornication is indecent and evil, so are thoughts about it and any thoughts which go nigh unto it.
Um, kindly explain how sexually pleasing yourself equates to drawing near to fornication, which is, having sex with someone other than your spouse?
I also would like an elaboration, please. You stated that masturbation will lead one to forget God, and our duty to serve him. Will you say the same thing about having sex with your spouse, playing games, shopping, studying for exams, hanging out with friends, etc. Those issues 'waste' way more time than masturbation itself. If you use the "forget God" argument, why don't you treat other things the same way, because they have the potential to lead us astray. Then again, wealth and children are said to potentially be a trial/temptation for us. Maybe we should not gain wealth or have children then? Eliminate the desires, rather than control them. Hmmm....
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A better translation of 1732
And do not come near to adultery; surely it has been an obscenity and odious as a way.
How can you come near adultery(zina) by thoughts? )
Using the same line of thinking, then I must be coming near ending poverty and slavery merely by thinking saving all those unfortunate people (and not doing anything about it). I can hear the rewards make the sound of "kachink kachink"
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A better translation of 1732
And do not come near to adultery; surely it has been an obscenity and odious as a way.
How can you come near adultery(zina) by thoughts?
I cannot address everyone who refuses to read
We are talking about the thoughts coming near it (i.e. the thoughts that lead to temptation) not the person.
nope
Peace
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Using the same line of thinking, then I must be coming near ending poverty and slavery merely by thinking saving all those unfortunate people (and not doing anything about it). I can hear the rewards make the sound of "kachink kachink"
You made the same mistake I just addressed above. The original question was about the definition of "dirty thought", and I did NOT say a dirty thought was something that made you go near to dirty things. I said that the thought was dirty simply if it was about dirty things. Now if you act on this then it becomes your intention (2284). If a dity thought comes, you will guard against it (22).
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Um, kindly explain how sexually pleasing yourself equates to drawing near to fornication, which is, having sex with someone other than your spouse?
I also would like an elaboration, please. You stated that masturbation will lead one to forget God, and our duty to serve him. Will you say the same thing about having sex with your spouse, playing games, shopping, studying for exams, hanging out with friends, etc. Those issues 'waste' way more time than masturbation itself. If you use the "forget God" argument, why don't you treat other things the same way, because they have the potential to lead us astray. Then again, wealth and children are said to potentially be a trial/temptation for us. Maybe we should not gain wealth or have children then? Eliminate the desires, rather than control them. Hmmm....
Again I addressed this many times already. Sexually pleasing yourself is firstly dirty if you are enjoying it by thinking of dirty thoughts at the same time. You are inclining towards what is indecent and evil because you are obtaining pleasure from dirty thoughts and fulfilling the same desire that makes one want to fornicate anyway. Secondly you are NOT guarding your thoughts (22). Thirdly, if you are thinking about having sex with someone to whom you are not in reality married, then how are you remembering or respecting Allah (SWT)? Fourthly if you think you can remember Allah (SWT) whilst masturbating by not thinking dirty thoughts, then are you doing it because you have to (see 2286) or are you doing it because you have convinced yourself of some mental aloofness from the sexual desire that is really your illusion? Can you answer why you did not fear Allah (SWT) whilst you were doing the act literally in front of Him? Was it necessary to perform an indecent act on yourself (indecent regardless of whether anyone sees it (unlike showering)? Fifthly since the only time that you may need to do it is during a dream or when you absolutely need to (in which case you will ask for forgiveness (2286)), you should be remembering Him (3191) and therefore FEARING Him. It is all the worse if you pretend to remember Him. Sixthly, if you are a Muslim, what right have you not to fear Him on this issue (given the verses and reasoning I posted)? Seventhly if your iman is strong enough you will keep your thoughts away from consciousness of sex altogether (except with regard to the specified people). Seventhly (in conjunction with six) you will make haste to good deeds (214 instead.
Finally can you explain how any of those activities you listed above comes even close to being a waste of time (assuming that you are an ordinary upright Muslim)? I cannot see the resemblance between these and masturbation. I also addressed this before.
Peace.
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Salaam,
That is because you have associated masturbation with indecency (or "fahisha", whereas the Qur'an never explicitly classifies masturbation as indecency. Maybe, maybe not. As I said previously, I can do without. But the problem here is that you impose your own interpretation of the Qur'an on everybody else, and call them a fool for not having the same interpretation as you do. A brother in a previous post expressed that he could masturbate without having impure thoughts - and what will be the harm in that?
Also, while our purpose on earth is to serve God, it does not mean that we should think about God (24/7). You may cite a verse about praising him while sitting, standing, etc - but it does not literally mean you have to remember Him in every single second of your life. Then again, if you feel that is what you think you must do, by all means, seclude yourself from worldly affair and just think about him.
The problem here is that you conclude that ALL type of masturbation is bad, when it should be assessed case by case basis, and as per individual. Unfortunately here, you already have pre-conceived views that masturbation is indecent, full stop. That all masturbation MUST include impure thoughts.
Those activities can very well be a complete waste of time if you decide to take it TOO far. If you spend 10 hours gaming, yes that's transgressing limits. Shopping for hours and hours is transgressing limits. Desires for materialistic things can be dangerous if they are too much (desires to obtain wealth, materials, status). When you study for your final exam, tell me, do you think about God as you memorise E=mc^2 (if you do physics anyway)? Anyway, at the same time, in moderation they can be good. Same case may apply with masturbation for some individuals, if they don't transgress limits. Blame not the tools, but how someone uses those tools.
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Thanks for your definition.
So, according to you, dirty thoughts = thoughts toward the direction of fornication
FYI, you can masturbate without thinking in the direction of fornication (or even without any sexual thoughts at all). I can do that and i'm sure there are other people who can do that. Using proper understanding of the human physiology, this can actually reduce the "thoughts toward the direction of fornication". No guilt involved. Not particularly my solution of choice, but still a valid choice which has to be respected without trying to instill guilt (i.e. interfering with other people's free-will).
Therefore, as per your own line of thinking, if your rejection to "masturbation" was based upon that idea of "dirty thoughts/...fornication", it can be countered simply by consciously not "thinking toward fornication" while masturbating. Next step is to acknowledge the possibilities on how to do that (if you so wish to expand your viewpoint on this matter).
One substance that i can take from your post, actually, is the keyword "addiction". Before that though, let's continue our little clarification process...
- Of course you never mentioned such a thing.
Correct. Thanks for acknowledging that fact.
You mentioned what came under the category
In order to bring your own attention to the act, you have to have a reason to think about it and the pleasure that you will receive.
You admitted that masturbation is for sexual pleasure,
keywords "pleasure" and "sexual pleasure"
Where did i say these in the posts you're responding to? (hint i said "sexual reasons"
Please clarify.
(This is not to say that i associate sexual pleasure with "dirty/devil". Far from it. It is just one form of pleasure humans can be grateful for.)
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Wa'alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh;
Firstly you focus on the ?thought leading to masturbation?, and now you turn around and focus upon the ?act? itself. Why do you not look at them properly as a whole (i.e. together) as I have been doing (when we do that people retreat into the realm of ?pure thought?)? I mentioned in the list of verses that it is not just an act, it is not just a thought. It is a combination and without the sexual thought it is pointless and still a sexual act performed on oneself (going nigh to fornication simply because fornication leads to the same fulfilment as I have said time and again). Secondly I am not interested in your opinion on my intentions. If I labelled people fools then it was for misinterpreting and manipulating my words and (more importantly) my intentions. If people focus on that, I will call them fools (rightly). Simply because the majority on this forum does not agree with me, it does not mean the majority outside does not (thus social protests are irrelevant). I desire people to argue Qur?anically using Qur?anic principles, not from subjective opinion that in any case does not equal what I have presented (whether you want to accept that or not). That is why I am free to ?give advice?.
Now, if someone can masturbate without having impure thoughts, then why does he need to masturbate when the unnecessary act itself goes physically close to sex outside marriage? You know and I know people do not masturbate for no reason. To claim that one?s genitals need a massage is lame and to say that one needs to mentally relax or distress is simply another way of saying you want the pleasure of what sex provides. Why do I not just apply ?guarding? to one?s innate desires and hand-movements? You say ?maybe, maybe not? regarding the act itself being indecent, yet being a true God-fearing believer you prefer opt for a gamble rather than doing what any Muslim would obviously do (advise people against what you cannot disprove to be indecent!). That itself is enough to end this discussion and expose it. You are just afraid (at least in this instance) to have a viewpoint and to take the high road (if you intend to have a view at all). That is not my issue.
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
So then, masturbation with ?pure thoughts? does not have to be an indecency. It simply has to go near it (e.g. through finding loopholes in one?s ?faith?). If you cannot tell the difference between masturbation and indecency, the obvious principle is do not do it while you do not have to.
I was thinking ?24/7? referred to a verse and I was surprised for just one moment. Point out for me where I claimed we had to think about Him all of the time. You arrive at an odd conclusion that to remember Him we have to seclude ourselves. Remembering Him often means remembering Him through the Qur?an, and thus when we arrive at quiet moments of temptation we reflect on the ayat regarding patience, indecency, guarding and intention (among others). Moreover, we do not confine our own desire to disprove someone on Freeminds to the Qur?an, but we use our common sense and realise that since we cannot find any verses to refute, we decide what is safest and most advisable for Muslims. Islam is not a garden to be cherry-picked.
You misread me again and arrive at your own conception of what I am saying. I never said all cases of masturbation was bad. I said masturbation should not be done if you do not have to. If someone really needs to, they should ask forgiveness (see 2286). Can you think of any other specific examples? You are nitpicking without providing substance (my repeated complaint). So how many types of masturbation are there? When is each most appropriate? What Qur?anic principles are you applying? Thankyou.
Those activities can very well be a complete waste of time if you decide to take it TOO far. If you spend 10 hours gaming, yes that's transgressing limits. Shopping for hours and hours is transgressing limits. Desires for materialistic things can be dangerous if they are too much (desires to obtain wealth, materials, status). When you study for your final exam, tell me, do you think about God as you memorise E=mc^2 (if you do physics anyway)? Anyway, at the same time, in moderation they can be good. Same case may apply with masturbation for some individuals, if they don't transgress limits. Blame not the tools, but how someone uses those tools.
The first sentence I addressed by assuming that we were talking about ordinary upright Muslims who perform their duties and act for the betterment of the community etc. I am asking you how is each activity in and of itself a waste of time? Praying too much is a waste of time too whilst it prevents you performing other duties! Saying that too much of these things is a waste of time is a redundant and obvious statement. I know that, everybody can see that. Too much prayer does not mean prayer is bad. Too much shopping does not mean that shopping is not necessary. I think you will understand this. You misunderstand what it actually means to remember Allah (SWT), so I suggest you reflect on these points.
The point was not about whether too much masturbation was a waste of time (since that is the only way your reply can be slightly relevant). It was about masturbation being a worse way of using one?s time and about it contradicting the principles of maintaining purity (e.g. 56) (embodied by the other ayat I have posted). Masturbation as a waste of time (devoid of other factors like thoughts and principles) was never actually my argument (since it would be a silly argument).
Your last statement is profound but in the same way that a vast ocean or desert is supposed to deliver a very specific point? My argument is that the ?tool? is for one?s spouse! We should only use it then or when we absolutely have to (and there is no cap on this ?need?).
Thank you,
Peace. -
Wa'alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh;
Firstly you focus on the ?thought leading to masturbation?, and now you turn around and focus upon the ?act? itself. Why do you not look at them properly as a whole (i.e. together) as I have been doing (when we do that people retreat into the realm of ?pure thought?)? I mentioned in the list of verses that it is not just an act, it is not just a thought. It is a combination and without the sexual thought it is pointless and still a sexual act performed on oneself (going nigh to fornication simply because fornication leads to the same fulfilment as I have said time and again). Secondly I am not interested in your opinion on my intentions. If I labelled people fools then it was for misinterpreting and manipulating my words and (more importantly) my intentions. If people focus on that, I will call them fools (rightly). Simply because the majority on this forum does not agree with me, it does not mean the majority outside does not (thus social protests are irrelevant). I desire people to argue Qur?anically using Qur?anic principles, not from subjective opinion that in any case does not equal what I have presented (whether you want to accept that or not). That is why I am free to ?give advice?.
Now, if someone can masturbate without having impure thoughts, then why does he need to masturbate when the unnecessary act itself goes physically close to sex outside marriage? You know and I know people do not masturbate for no reason. To claim that one?s genitals need a massage is lame and to say that one needs to mentally relax or distress is simply another way of saying you want the pleasure of what sex provides. Why do I not just apply ?guarding? to one?s innate desires and hand-movements? You say ?maybe, maybe not? regarding the act itself being indecent, yet being a true God-fearing believer you prefer opt for a gamble rather than doing what any Muslim would obviously do (advise people against what you cannot disprove to be indecent!). That itself is enough to end this discussion and expose it. You are just afraid (at least in this instance) to have a viewpoint and to take the high road (if you intend to have a view at all). That is not my issue.
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
So then, masturbation with ?pure thoughts? does not have to be an indecency. It simply has to go near it (e.g. through finding loopholes in one?s ?faith?). If you cannot tell the difference between masturbation and indecency, the obvious principle is do not do it while you do not have to.
I was thinking ?24/7? referred to a verse and I was surprised for just one moment. Point out for me where I claimed we had to think about Him all of the time. You arrive at an odd conclusion that to remember Him we have to seclude ourselves. Remembering Him often means remembering Him through the Qur?an, and thus when we arrive at quiet moments of temptation we reflect on the ayat regarding patience, indecency, guarding and intention (among others). Moreover, we do not confine our own desire to disprove someone on Freeminds to the Qur?an, but we use our common sense and realise that since we cannot find any verses to refute, we decide what is safest and most advisable for Muslims. Islam is not a garden to be cherry-picked.
You misread me again and arrive at your own conception of what I am saying. I never said all cases of masturbation was bad. I said masturbation should not be done if you do not have to. If someone really needs to, they should ask forgiveness (see 2286). Can you think of any other specific examples? You are nitpicking without providing substance (my repeated complaint). So how many types of masturbation are there? When is each most appropriate? What Qur?anic principles are you applying? Thankyou.
The first sentence I addressed by assuming that we were talking about ordinary upright Muslims who perform their duties and act for the betterment of the community etc. I am asking you how is each activity in and of itself a waste of time? Praying too much is a waste of time too whilst it prevents you performing other duties! Saying that too much of these things is a waste of time is a redundant and obvious statement. I know that, everybody can see that. Too much prayer does not mean prayer is bad. Too much shopping does not mean that shopping is not necessary. I think you will understand this. You misunderstand what it actually means to remember Allah (SWT), so I suggest you reflect on these points.
The point was not about whether too much masturbation was a waste of time (since that is the only way your reply can be slightly relevant). It was about masturbation being a worse way of using one?s time and about it contradicting the principles of maintaining purity (e.g. 56) (embodied by the other ayat I have posted). Masturbation as a waste of time (devoid of other factors like thoughts and principles) was never actually my argument (since it would be a silly argument).
Your last statement is profound but in the same way that a vast ocean or desert is supposed to deliver a very specific point? My argument is that the ?tool? is for one?s spouse! We should only use it then or when we absolutely have to (and there is no cap on this ?need?).
Thank you,
Peace.Even with dirty thoughts its not an indecency, infact, it keeps you away from unlawful sexual intercourse. And don't compare masturbating pleasure with sex pleasure, i dunno myself but people say masturbating is nothing compared with real sex.
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@ San
Well I have answered this at least five times. ?Forbidden? thoughts also include those which go near those which go near fornication
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
Thus having eliminated masturbation with dirty thoughts as an option for you (you still pretend it is an option) even masturbating without thinking about anything is going near an indecency (because it falls under the category of sexual act). The Qur?an is literally telling you this. It is pretty much saying ?do not go there?. If you want to say that it does not at least go near indecency, then common sense will be against you and anyway it goes nearer to it than lots of other things you should do to distract yourself (e.g. praying, doing chores etc.). You implied you understood psychology (since you seem to throw around some qualified statements). Why exactly would you proceed to masturbate if you were not going to think sexual thoughts? I will ?zero in? on your reply and that should be that (contrary to ?expanding my own viewpoint on this matter? which I already did countless times).
Explain the difference between ?for sexual reasons? and ?for sexual pleasure? in this context. The clarification is actually your task. Indeed, sexual pleasure is a part of this life?s test and also a compliment of the ?creation in pairs?. Just as male to male is not condoned, it is how you enjoy it that counts. There is nothing in this discussion to support anything more than when we absolutely have to (beyond with the specified people).
Peace.
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Thus having eliminated masturbation with dirty thoughts as an option for you (you still pretend it is an option) even masturbating without thinking about anything is going near an indecency (because it falls under the category of sexual act). The Qur?an is literally telling you this. It is pretty much saying ?do not go there?. If you want to say that it does not at least go near indecency, then common sense will be against you and anyway it goes nearer to it than lots of other things you should do to distract yourself (e.g. praying, doing chores etc.)
Peace.Aw common now you can't be serious, is praying what you do ALL DAY and nothing else? ( how come you're using computer btw?) Cut the cra* you cant use that as an argument. Masturbating is NOT a sexual act, you're just missintepreting the Quran to win this argument, its just like saying
Do not marry your step mom
Oh damn i cant marry my neighbor ( that is not your stepmom) Its completely out of point, none of quranic verses refer to masturbating, because its not haram, even with dirty thoughts, deal with it.
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Even with dirty thoughts its not an indecency, infact, it keeps you away from unlawful sexual intercourse. And don't compare masturbating pleasure with sex pleasure, i dunno myself but people say masturbating is nothing compared with real sex.
... Thus according to your logic it is never an indecency (i.e. we can do it all the time). Please see my definition of "dirty thoughts" which you misread earlier.
Just indecent thoughts inspiring indecent desires.
?Surely Allah will make those who believe and do good enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; and those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat as the beasts eat, and the fire is their abode.?
4712
Giving in to temptation is the way of disbelief. Thus one should guard one?s thoughts (22).
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
We should not even think about these things because impure thoughts (though concealed) lead to impure impulses. If then we fall to temptation, we should ask forgiveness. Just because our thoughts and associated actions are concealed, it does not mean we are not accountable for intentions
??and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it.?
2284
?Say My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed??
733
See the notes for 6151.
?And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.?
1732
Thinking about fornication in conjunction with the act is inclining towards it. Enjoying the act is welcoming the lure of the same (fulfilment of) temptations which fornication offers.
Your second sentence is ... E.g. whether or not they are the same, one does one because they cannot do the other.
Please also note that my posts are based on tangible principles. No-one of course is obligated to put any thought into their posts yes
Peace.
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Aw common now you can't be serious, is praying what you do ALL DAY and nothing else? ( how come you're using computer btw?) Cut the cra* you cant use that as an argument. Masturbating is NOT a sexual act, you're just missintepreting the Quran to win this argument, its just like saying
Do not marry your step mom
Oh damn i cant marry my neighbor ( that is not your stepmom) Its completely out of point, none of quranic verses refer to masturbating, because its not haram, even with dirty thoughts, deal with it.
Pretty stupid. Bring your proof and then after you fail I will point out a number of things for you to do that were not explicitly prohibited.
??and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.?
6151
Because masturbation was never mentioned (even with all the references to guarding and chastity) it would be logical to conclude that masturbation was not allowed.
It is OK, you cannot hurt the argument and that is fine. yes
Peace.
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Stop freaking quoting this
and do not draw nigh to indecencies, those of them which are apparent and those which are concealed.
6151
This has nothing to do with masturbation, nor dirty thoughts
apparent - that others know
concealed - that do not knowGiving in to temptation is the way of disbelief. Thus one should guard ones thoughts (22).
MESMORIAL; Because masturbation was never mentioned (even with all the references to guarding and chastity) it would be logical to conclude that masturbation was not allowed.
Whatever isn't prohibited in Quran therefore its not prohibited, its either halal or middle way. And by masturbating you don't break the chastity or guard, thats stupid. Your whole comments are stupid.
You get tempted to do it for real, thats why you should not think about it, but logic a little, if you're sure you're not gonna do what you think if you have the chance to do that, there's nothing wrong.
and whether you manifest what is in your minds or hide it, Allah will call you to account according to it.
2284
I have already explained this before in your first posts i think or was it niminak i dunno.
And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way.
1732
Zina = adultery NOT fornication, thats a mistranslate, and you cant go near it by thinking, you go near it when you intend doing it, and you're close to do it, not thinking about doing it.Thinking about fornication in conjunction with the act is inclining towards it. Enjoying the act is welcoming the lure of the same (fulfilment of) temptations which fornication offers.
HHAHAHHAHAH, are you freaking serious?
Why do kafirs have sex? They can just masturbate instead.. cos its the same pleasure? lmfao... you probably haven't had sex or masturbated before otherwise you wouldn't say this.
And no masturbating is not indecency, and i don't care about your definition of dirty, for someone dirty can mean eating pancakes, i don't care the way you see it.