Reasons why there can't be two Gods
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My point is that Allah is omnipotent = being able to do all things.
"Nobody except Allah can do any jot", yes they can. Just because Allah can do everything doesn't mean we can do nothing. I can eat a chips for example. It was Allah who made humanity able to do so, your point is retarded.
My dear, are you so confident about your own self???-----that you have the power to do anything that you want????
Clear your mind right away.
Whatever you do, it is by the Permission of The Creator.
If The Creator doesn't allow you to eat chips, you can never even eat or move a single jot.It is all by Allah's Permission.
He is only Testing us. -
The thing is he allowed me to you dumb idiot. And I never said I could do all, but I can do SOMETHING.
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The thing is he allowed me to you dumb idiot. And I never said I could do all, but I can do SOMETHING.
Allah never allowed you to talk the way you are talking.
Allah is Decent,-----and likes decent people.
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- Proof?
- Dumb is dumb, just telling the reality.
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Allah is Decent,-----and likes decent people.
- Proof?
- Dumb is dumb, just telling the reality.
So you are not going to be decent!
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I am not really getting your argument OPF. God is not bound by anything yes. He is independent of all that is. In that lies also the neccesary qualities of omnipotence / allknowingness, and the neccesity for this to be a single entity.
You are saying God is independent of the human mind, yet saying that thoughts are manifested as electrical impulses. This seems like a contradiction to me.
I think one needs to thread carefully, when one tries to conceptualize God. I wouldn
t say God is subject to anything, but he does exist. I cant remember the verse, but doesn`t the Quran say God is the Most Existing? This may be a pointer to that he is realer, than creation, yet creation exists aswell.God is the owner of creation. That means that creation is not him, as far as I am concerned. I think everything in the Quran alludes to this. Else creation would own itself, and one would adore every object because it would be God.
Peace.
Peace,
I see your point that "creation would own itself". That is not what I mean. Without God, there is nothing at all. With God, there is either God or God & creation. So no matter what, creation needs God, so creation cannot be anything independent of, or separate to God. If God somehow "died", creation could not carry on.
Thoughts are manifested as electrical impulses, they have form. They are graspable, you can point at this electrical impulse and say "that there is a thought". The human mind is a physical object, as immaterial as it feels. However there is nothing you can point to and say "that is God". Most of the universe is dead matter that cannot think. Yet it is arranged most splendidly, as if it has a life of its own. Likewise, the human brain is inert matter shaped into something capable of thought. The true force animating it is God.
"Just because Allah can do everything doesn't mean we can do nothing."
This is the fallacy of duality. The creation is totally bound by the creator. If I make a computer from scratch, I can give the computer "free will" but I can also program it to do exactly what I like with that "free will". Absolute free will & separate existence from ALLAH is not true (7039)!
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Peace.
I understand your point about creation cannot be independent. However I do believe it can be separate.
Your statement still seems contradictory. If thoughts are physical, why would they "manifest"?
I need to separate life, which is transcendent and God (a non-physical non-machine, a paradox that is life)
from matter. When you say, I am alive, that is thought. This is the immaterial lifeforce God. If one could create an artificial brain, one could still not give it this life. Do you understand?Other than that, I agree that there is only one will, behind all that will ever be.
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So you are not going to be decent!
Just stating the reality m8, don't get too upset.
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What is it that says "I am alive"? Look carefully. The thing that says "I am alive" is the "dead" matter. Forget the little discrepancies in my words, believe me that if I went through everything someone else tried to say I too would find it riddled full of inconsistencies, that's the nature of communication.
Thoughts ARE physical. There is no "higher realm" from which they come. In fact there are no "higher" or "lower" realities, there is only this reality, inside which all things occur including "higher" and "lower" things. Your thoughts are exactly as physical as waves crashing on a beach. Indeed if we look carefully and trace the origin of "I am", we find who truly is saying it - the origin of all things, the first cause. Like a Rube Goldberg machine.
It seems you wish to make the distinction between dead and alive which by all means is correct. However life and death are a very small aspect of this universe. While not everything is alive, everything is aware, this is far more powerful than life & death because life & death were created as a result of awareness. For example see 4111 - dead matter has free will. Don't get deluded into thinking "life" is the purpose of existence. Perhaps 10^79 particles exist all for the sake of a bunch of talking apes and green leaves but I doubt it. There is far more to it that we cannot fathom.
It seems dead to you because when you kick it, it's not kicking you back. But look at this http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC_6fmQFh8U
Perspective matters. On the one hand, I am energy, I am earth, I am a body with 2 legs and 10 fingers, I am a personality, I am a self, all of those things at once. On the flipside, I am none of those things but the observer of it all. Which caused which? The truth is neither causes either, they are one and the same. There is an artist behind the artistry. But when the painting is alive and speaking to the artist, the distinction blurs.
Consider who will judge on the day of judgement. ALLAH will give your your record. Yet you will judge yourself (1714). Does that not lend a clue?
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I do believe one can reduce the noise of communication to a level, where most is correct.
When dealing with these fundamental issues, little discrepancies are not tolerable.
When we trace "I am" we do indeed find, first cause. Which is immaterial!
I do not believe that everything is aware. You make a distinction between awareness and alive, which I find perplex.
You just argued against dead matter having will on their own, in an earlier post.
Did you not believe everything depended on God?
Your words that life is not the purpose of existence is saddening. I do believe that the purpose is with God, as the Quran states, and God is the life-force, Ruh. And as a gnostic, I have experienced this as God is The Word, and with The Word, is the meaning.
Your further argumentation seems to be in conflict with the understanding the everything depends on God. If you are a body, your body or electrical impulses depend on noone.
Unless you argue that everything is a creation within the mind of God, which I mentioned earlier? Is this what you are arguing?Anyway..
I do believe that allknowingness is the only fundament, and the fundament of all things.
We are the conscious and the subconscious, and in the subconscious is the allknowingness, that also creates and sustains the universe, which is not consciousness.Peace!
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Peace,
"When we trace "I am" we do indeed find, first cause. Which is immaterial!"
Exactly so. However "material" and "immaterial" is a concept of the universe. Numbers are immaterial. Yet numbers are not ALLAH! These all arise from first cause. First cause is beyond this. You cannot grasp ALLAH no matter how hard you try. It's like trying to pick up a fistful of water.
"You just argued against dead matter having will on their own, in an earlier post."
Where? Are you sure I meant it in that way?
"If you are a body, your body or electrical impulses depend on noone."
The body has no existence separate to Earth. Contrary to such thinking, the body needs air, food, water. Indeed the body is not a "universe experiencing machine" but simply an "earth experiencing machine". For the time being anyway. The idea that a body is independent is pure illusion. When you are fed and watered and rich, you are "independent". Let me tie you up alone in the Sahara Desert and see how long you remain "independent" for.
"Your words that life is not the purpose of existence is saddening. I do believe that the purpose is with God, as the Quran states, and God is the life-force, Ruh. And as a gnostic, I have experienced this as God is The Word, and with The Word, is the meaning."
Actually this is where the source of the disagreement arises. You have an idea of this argument in your mind that is very different to mine. You see red where I see blue, when in reality there is actually white.
The purpose of the universe is written very clearly in chapter 21. It is to discern truth & falsehood.I am guessing you are still in some way attached to the idea that life needs to be in the universe for it to actually exist. But that is incorrect. ALLAH precedes the universe, and the universe precedes life. But here is my point. When you had this experience, did you experience two realities (observer, observed) or one reality (I AM)? I would sincerely doubt the first, because there never can be two absolute realities.
And that is my very point. The idea that there is "creation" and "creator" throws away responsibility. "I can sin because I am creation, I don't know any better, it's all the creator's fault". No! I agree with your last point. It is all-knowingness that is the essence/origin. And all-knowingness demands a single absolute reality. If there are two realities and one all-knowing being, the all-knowing being is above both and hence is THE reality.
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How am I going to tell you this OPF. I find your argumentation to be quite perplex.
You agree that we trace I am, to God, yet later you say the universe precedes life.
My Gnosis was very much about God (Paradox), and a separate creation, yes.
You seem to be stuck in pantheistic thinking, and is probably why you are doing so many errors.
Creation is made from nothing, is what the Quran states. Not that it is God.
I have no need to discuss this any further though!
Peace!
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Just stating the reality m8, don't get too upset.
Salam nice and respected brother!
You calling me dumb.
Okay, no problem for me. I won't call you dumb.-----?Even if you stretch out your hand against me to kill me, I shall not stretch out my hand against you to kill you. I indeed fear Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. ?Verily, I intend that you be laden with my sin and your sin, then become among the dwellers of the fire. And that is the recompense of the wrong doers.?" (5 28,29)
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Comparing calling you dumb with killing, thanks for proving my point.
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Comparing calling you dumb with killing, thanks for proving my point.
Yes, respected and honorable brother!
Comparing killing with calling dumb.If you kill me, I won't kill you.
Same way, if you call me dumb, I won't call you dumb.
How can I, when my Allah doesn't allow me to. I fear my Allah.
Why should I become an enemy of my Allah???This is the lesson, I got from this Verse.
No "killing" against "killing".
No "calling dumb" against "calling dumb".
No "wrong doing" against "wrong doing"
No "fraud" against "fraud",And so on.
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Killing has NOTHING to do with calling someone dumb. And can you prove that Allah forbid calling dumb people dumb? You're saying that I'm gonna be send to hell because I called you dumb, hmm ok.
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Killing has NOTHING to do with calling someone dumb. And can you prove that Allah forbid calling dumb people dumb? You're saying that I'm gonna be send to hell because I called you dumb, hmm ok.
This Exalted Verse is a Verse of Hidayah. It tells you not to become bad to other person the way he is bad to you.
You call me dumb, nice and respected brother,---but----I won't call you a dumb at any cost.
I fear my Allah. He will question me on The Judgement Day.
I take refuge in my Allah. -
That's bs, it says not to kill people, nothing else. Stop changing the meaning to your likening.
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That's bs, it says not to kill people, nothing else. Stop changing the meaning to your likening.
So, respected and very very nice brother!-----Deos this Verse tells you to call people dumb!
At another place, Allah advices us to do good in return to bad.
So, I will always call you respected and nice brother!
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Peace,
Creation is made from nothing, is what the Quran states.
Please provide a reference from the quran for the bold statement. What use is talking about quran without quoting a direct reference for scrutiny?
To terminate this discussion telling me I am "stuck in pantheist thinking and making errors" is rather unjust when you are not backing up your claims!