Can we pray for our christian friends?
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Ask Muslims if Muhammad is God. They say no. Ask Christians if Jesus is God. They say yes.
Equally important Ask Muslims if Jesus is prophet. They say yes. Ask Christians if Muhammad is prophet. They say no.
In Islam, kufr (disbelief) is almost as great as a sin as shirk. Therefore monoteist christians will also go to hell. Believing in Allah is only possible by believing in ALL his prophets, books ... etc. Plz read the ayats below
291 When they are told, "You shall believe in these revelations of GOD," they say, "We believe only in what was sent down to us." Thus, they disbelieve in subsequent revelations, even if it is the truth from their Lord, and even though it confirms what they have! Say, "Why then did you kill GOD's prophets, if you were believers?"
568 Say, "O people of the scripture, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.
As for sunnis, their taking hadith as a source of religion is based on their interpretition of Quran. They believe that obeying messenger is obeying his words (hadith). But they carefully eliminate fake hadith by checking its contradiction with Quran. Although I don't agree with them, still what they are doing is not shirk. Mentioning Mohammad's name in mosques isn't shirk either, since mentioning his name is not worshipping to him.
peace
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Equally important Ask Muslims if Jesus is prophet. They say yes. Ask Christians if Muhammad is prophet. They say no.
In Islam, kufr (disbelief) is almost as great as a sin as shirk. Therefore monoteist christians will also go to hell. Believing in Allah is only possible by believing in ALL his prophets, books ... etc. Plz read the ayats below
291 When they are told, "You shall believe in these revelations of GOD," they say, "We believe only in what was sent down to us." Thus, they disbelieve in subsequent revelations, even if it is the truth from their Lord, and even though it confirms what they have! Say, "Why then did you kill GOD's prophets, if you were believers?"
568 Say, "O people of the scripture, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.
As for sunnis, their taking hadith as a source of religion is based on their interpretition of Quran. They believe that obeying messenger is obeying his words (hadith). But they carefully eliminate fake hadith by checking its contradiction with Quran. Although I don't agree with them, still what they are doing is not shirk. Mentioning Mohammad's name in mosques isn't shirk either, since mentioning his name is not worshipping to him.
peace
That is not completely true as Muslims believe Muhammad has divine authority. The Sunnah gave Muhammad divine authority. Authority that in the Koran is reserved to God only. This authority can then be transfered to the Musim ruler. That is one of the reasons why the Sunnah came. The Koran gave Muhamad limited authority and gave absolute authority to God only.
Plus most Christians will tell you Jesus is the son of God but would not exactly know how to explain that.
Finally Sunnis and Shias do not use the Koran to check out fake hadith. One of the goals of the Sunnah is to do away with the Koran. That is the whole point.
10.15. But when Our Clear Signs are rehearsed unto them, those who rest not their hope on their meeting with Us, Say "Bring us a reading other than this, or change this," Say "It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it I follow naught but what is revealed unto me if I were to disobey my Lord, I should myself fear the penalty of a Great Day (to come)."
Here the pagans asked Muhamamd to alter the Koran or to come with another Koran and Muhammad told them that he does not have such authority. So the sunnah came to finish the job that Muhamad refused to do.
Authority of the Sunnah
- Definition of the Sunnah, and the History of the Sunnah, and the Efforts of the Scholars in verifying the Sunnah.
For the above issues, please see the following article The Sunnah.
One thing that must be mentioned here is that many Muslims get confused between the general term of Sunnah, which includes all the sayings and actions of the Prophet, and between the term Sunnah when used in fiqh issues where it means "recommended". For example, since the Prophet used to pray 2 rak'at before fajr prayer, we say that it is Sunnah for us to pray these 2 rak'at, which means that it is recommended to pray these 2 rak'at and not obligatory.
In this article we are discussing the Sunnah in the general sense, and not in the fiqh sense. We are talking about the Sunnah as a source of Islamic legislation. Therefore, when we say it is obligatory to follow the Sunnah, we are talking about the Prophets commands for us in the Sunnah and not about the recommended actions such as the 2 rak'at before fajr for example. Please make sure that you understand the difference here.
- What does the Authority of the Sunnah mean?
In Arabic, the wording is Hojjiyat As-Sunnah. This basically means that the Sunnah can be used as evidence in Shariah, and that Allah (swt) has ordered us to follow the Sunnah and avoid anything it has prohibited for us. In other words, this means that it is obligatory on every Muslim to believe in what the Sunnah tells us, and to act according to the Sunnah in all aspects of our life and ensure that we do not commit any actions that contradict the Sunnah.
- The Sunnah and it's place in relation to the Holy Qur'an
The Sunnah can be divided into three parts
Confirming Sunnah. This is the part of the Sunnah that confirms what is in the Qur'an, and reinforces it.
Explanatory Sunnah. This part of the Sunnah explains the holy Qur'an and the various Shariah injunctions that come in the holy Qur'an. It includes four parts expanding on what is mentioned only briefly in the holy Qur'an, explaining difficult verses or issues, putting limits on general statements in the Qur'an and finally specifying generalities in the Qur'an.
Sunnah that brings new legislation. This part of the Sunnah is the one that brings new legislation, and new Shariah that is not in the holy Qur'an.
http//www.al-islami.com/islam/authority_of_sunnah.php
Of course there is another criteria that they don't mention is the Sunnah can abrogate the Koranic verses. Apostasy law (Ridda) is a very good example of that.
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That is not completely true as Muslims believe Muhammad has divine authority. The Sunnah gave Muhammad divine authority. Authority that in the Koran is reserved to God only. This authority can then be transfered to the Musim ruler. That is one of the reasons why the Sunnah came. The Koran gave Muhamad limited authority and gave absolute authority to God only.
Indeed ..
That's why the dogma of 'Ulema and/or Caliph as the successor/heirs of prophet-hood' which allegedly Muhammad said so in the hadith.. get a constant airtime during sermons...God -> authority transfer to -> Muhammad -> authority transfer to -> Ulema or Ruler
It's all about 'power to control the masses' and turn them into 'obedient servant' to serve their (often political) agenda...
That's why they will get instantly 'pissed off' when somebody tried to challenge the authority of the Sunna and/or Hadiths as it will disrupt the 'status quo'.. (Political Motivation)
Finally Sunnis and Shias do not use the Koran to check out fake hadith. One of the goals of the Sunnah is to do away with the Koran. That is the whole point.
Agree.. and gain an absolute power + authority to influence the masses..
Salam / Peace
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Indeed ..
That's why the dogma of 'Ulema and/or Caliph as the successor/heirs of prophet-hood' which allegedly Muhammad said so in the hadith.. get a constant airtime during sermons...God -> authority transfer to -> Muhammad -> authority transfer to -> Ulema or Ruler
It's all about 'power to control the masses' and turn them into 'obedient servant' to serve their (often political) agenda...
That's why they will get instantly 'pissed off' when somebody tried to challenge the authority of the Sunna and/or Hadiths as it will disrupt the 'status quo'.. (Political Motivation)
Agree.. and gain an absolute power + authority to influence the masses..
Salam / Peace
I agree. The story about Abu Bakr going to war because of Zakat is a proof of that. Zakat is a religious obligation for the believers. Who gave Abu Bakr this kind of authority. If you read the Koran it tells us
Here you are, called upon to spend in the Path of Allah, and some of you are being stingy, while whoever is stingy is only ungenerous towards himself. It is Allah who is rich and you who are the poor.?
Here the Koran is saying the oppossite. So how can Abu Bakr force people to pay Zakat?
So now the ruler can impose Zakat and take it for himself and his cronies as they tried to do in Sudan. Notice also in that story of Abu Bakr, the other companions disagreed with him. But for the wrong reasons. In all, these stroies gives the ruler absolute authority where he can impose Zakat or not. Where he can conquer nations and impose Jizya or not. Where he has life and death powers like the Pharoah.
Jizya is another example. While the Kortan talked about Jizya when the believers were returning to Mecca which they were forced out of. In the Sunnah Jizya is to be paid by all non Muslims. Why should people be required to pay Jizya for? Jizya in the Koran came upon the enterance of mecca. Jizya could easily be compensation for the loss of property and businesses suffered by the believers when they were forced into exile as verse 9.13 tells us.
However lets remember that we are talking about some aspects of the Sunnah. The Sunnah comprises various factions each with their own agenda. Even Koranist got into the game and spread hadiths that encourages the recitation and following of the Koran. Hadiths that tells us Muhamamd said do not write anything from me except the Koran is one such example.
All and all, the Sects gave Muhamamd divine authority that is reserved in the Koran for God. Such as believing or disbelieving and punishing of sins and transgression against God. The Koran reserved that for God and the day of Judgement. Only when you transgress against another person's right did the Koran gave humans authority to hold other humans account.
- manslaughter
- Premediated murder
3.stealing
4.slandering
5.adultery
These are the 5 areas the Koran gave Muhamad authority to intervene. All of them affect another person's right. Either property, life or reputation or spouse.
The Sunnah is very different in that regard.
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Peace Bigmo, all,
Plus most Christians will tell you Jesus is the son of God but would not exactly know how to explain that.
I gave the Qur'anic verse which tells you exactly what happens to people that worship disbelieve and worship Jesus as God. How can we dance around the verse and start thinking of ways out of what God says? What God says is clear, what further explanation is needed?
The things about Muslims doing shirk or doing something on par with Christians (which IMO is not even close) is irrelevant as the subject of this talk is Polytheistic Christians. Lets focus on Christians. If we are to talk about shirk in Islam, lets do that in another topic dedicated to that and not derail this one.
Peace
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The things about Muslims doing shirk or doing something on par with Christians (which IMO is not even close)
You're 'right' about that one.. is not even close.. what Muslim (read sunnis/shiites/or other Mohammedans group) did it's actually much worse!!..
is irrelevant as the subject of this talk is Polytheistic Christians. Lets focus on Christians. If we are to talk about shirk in Islam, lets do that in another topic dedicated to that and not derail this one.
It's relevant, if we're to judge about 'not to pray' for those who have a 'wrong belief/view about God'... we have to apply the same standard to any other groups, regardless the name...
And islam is not a religion or sect or group or social identity.. islam is an 'attitude/character'.. it fell within the same domain as 'honest', 'kind', 'forgiving', 'humble' etc..
Salam / Peace
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Peace Jafar,
You're 'right' about that one.. is not even close.. what Muslim (read sunnis/shiites/or other Mohammedans group) did it's actually much worse!!..
I guess we have to agree to disagree, and only God knows best.
It's relevant, if we're to judge about 'not to pray' for those who have a 'wrong belief/view about God'... we have to apply the same standard to any other groups, regardless the name...
And islam is not a religion or sect or group or social identity.. islam is an 'attitude/character'.. it fell within the same domain as 'honest', 'kind', 'forgiving', 'humble' etc..
Salam / Peace
I gave scriptural reference to Christians of what God says. You haven't addressed the answer that God gives, which is why I said lets stay on topic. God goes at length talking about how displeased he is with people that say Jesus is Allah. He specifically targets those people. Are you saying that God is wrong when he talks about these polytheists?
Peace
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In Islam, kufr (disbelief) is almost as great as a sin as shirk. Therefore monoteist christians will also go to hell. Believing in Allah is only possible by believing in ALL his prophets, books ... etc. Plz read the ayats below
Yes indeed the Paradise is reserved only for you. Everyone else would go the Hell. rotfl
Stop playing God. And stop misusing the Quran in your anti-christian mission.
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Peace Bigmo, all,
I gave the Qur'anic verse which tells you exactly what happens to people that worship disbelieve and worship Jesus as God. How can we dance around the verse and start thinking of ways out of what God says? What God says is clear, what further explanation is needed?
The things about Muslims doing shirk or doing something on par with Christians (which IMO is not even close) is irrelevant as the subject of this talk is Polytheistic Christians. Lets focus on Christians. If we are to talk about shirk in Islam, lets do that in another topic dedicated to that and not derail this one.
Peace
The verse only tells us to stop saying Jesus is divine. It does not say whether sunnah is better than that.
I dont make any difference between Sectarian muslims and Christians who believe Jesus is divine. The both share the same though, they just use different words.
There are hundreds of hadith making Muhammad God, although the word God is not used because Quran clearly says that is forbidden. So what muslims do is that they exploit the 'loopholes'. They say Muhammad is NOOR-ALLAH, That he was the first thing ever created, That he is the only one who can change Gods mind, that God gave him unlimited power and authority, that Muhammad is the best person of all creations, That Muhammad would make intercession, that it was Muhammad who decided many aspects of Islam (like prayer) etc. etc. BUT HE IS STILL NOT GOD
So attribute All the qualities of God to Muhammad but just remember to not CALL him God
Indeed, I would even say that the Christian who believe in trinity are somehow more righteous than the muslims, since the Christians are honest and use the right words, while the muslims are hypocrites who say one thing but believe in a compleately different thing. And Munafeqeen are worse than the Kaffirs in the quran.
The truth is, that Every person who believes in monotheism and do righteous acts would go to paradise, whether he is christian, Jew or Muslim or atheist or a secular person without any religion.
Believers, Jews, Sabaeans and Christians -
whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -
shall have nothing to fear or regret.
-- Sura 569 -
Stop playing God.
Playing God is only the case if one dares to decide the afterlife of individuals. However the salvation criteria (rules of the game) is clear in Quran since otherwise God wouldn't hold us responsible for anything.
The truth is, that Every person who believes in monotheism and do righteous acts would go to paradise, whether he is christian, Jew or Muslim or atheist or a secular person without any religion.
Believers, Jews, Sabaeans and Christians -
whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -
shall have nothing to fear or regret.
-- Sura 569What is this? a kind of customizing the salvation criteria Where does in 569 write anything about monoteism ? Using your way I may easily claim righteous Mekkan idolworshippers will get salvation since they also believed a single God which they called Allah/Al-Ilah (probably based on Abraham)
6511 a messenger who recites to you GOD's revelations, clearly, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in GOD and leads a righteous life, He will admit him into gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. GOD will generously reward him.
To understand 569 read other verses. There are thousands more verses in Quran beside 569, 262, 4913. Anyway, you may encourage your athe/mono/polytheist christian friends to refuse Quran/Mohammad by showing them 569. I wish you all a happy afterlife without fear and regret.
Final words Light-hearted bull licks the knife of the butcher. (turkish saying)
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Playing God is only the case if one dares to decide the afterlife of individuals. However the salvation criteria (rules of the game) is clear in Quran since otherwise God wouldn't hold us responsible for anything.
What is this? a ii of customizing the salvation criteria D Where does in 569 write anything about monoteism ? Using your way I may easily claim righteous Mekkan idolworshippers will get salvation since they also believed a single God which they called Allah/Al-Ilah
6511 a messenger who recites to you GOD's revelations, clearly, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in GOD and leads a righteous life, He will admit him into gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. GOD will generously reward him.
To understand 569 read other verses. There are thousands more verses in Quran beside 569, 262, 4913. Anyway, you may encourage your ate/mono/polyteist christian friends to refuse Quran/Mohammad by showing them 262. I wish you all a happy afterlife without fear and regret.
Final words Light-hearted bull licks the knife of the butcher. (turkish saying) D
Your post does not make any sense. Brother, quran 569 tells us that Christians and jews can enter paradise.
Peace
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Peace Maha,
Again, have you read what I posted at all? I am not fluent in Arabic and do not try to appear so. I am just a learner of the Qur'an. With that aside, don't take offense to this, but practice what you preach. You translate the word Muslim into English. Although it is a rough translation, it is understandable. Now tell me where God says the word Christian. Also if there is this word "Christian", is he talking about all Christians, or those that conform to Islam and Tawhid? Trinitarian Christians are neither, according to God Himself.
What hamzamutlu says is true, it seems like you are "customizing the salvation criteria" to fit your own opinions/needs. If we go by your criteria, as hamazamutlu states, even the Meccans idolators would not have to pay for their disbelief. The idolators in Mecca believes in Allah, but practiced similar beliefs as the trinitarian polythiest Christians of today. And it is quite possible that their idolatoray wasn't even as bad as what the Christians do.
Believe me, if it were up to my human emotions, I would have the same opinion as you. However, God knows better than us, and while it doesn't hurt to question, we must accept his decision if we believe that the Qur'an is his authorship. Please do not twist God's Words, God speaks of horrible consequences for those that did for the past scriptures.
Peace
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Peace Maha,
Again, have you read what I posted at all? I am not fluent in Arabic and do not try to appear so. I am just a learner of the Qur'an. With that aside, don't take offense to this, but practice what you preach. You translate the word Muslim into English. Although it is a rough translation, it is understandable. Now tell me where God says the word Christian. Also if there is this word "Christian", is he talking about all Christians, or those that conform to Islam and Tawhid? Trinitarian Christians are neither, according to God Himself.
What hamzamutlu says is true, it seems like you are "customizing the salvation criteria" to fit your own opinions/needs. If we go by your criteria, as hamazamutlu states, even the Meccans idolators would not have to pay for their disbelief. The idolators in Mecca believes in Allah, but practiced similar beliefs as the trinitarian polythiest Christians of today. And it is quite possible that their idolatoray wasn't even as bad as what the Christians do.
Believe me, if it were up to my human emotions, I would have the same opinion as you. However, God knows better than us, and while it doesn't hurt to question, we must accept his decision if we believe that the Qur'an is his authorship. Please do not twist God's Words, God speaks of horrible consequences for those that did for the past scriptures.
Peace
Dear sister. I feel that you judge too much and that you consider yourself to know what God thinks.
But look just as what you wrote
Also if there is this word "Christian", is he talking about all Christians, or those that conform to Islam and Tawhid?This applies for all people, not only for christians but also for muslims. Every person, whether he is Christian or Muslim should follow monothoism in order to get salvation. Thats a basic fact. I am not trying to defend any MUSHRIK, whether he calls himself for Christian or Muslim. It just seems to me, that you try to judge ALL christians and in the same time you try to DEFEND the polytheism in Islam.
What I am trying to say is, that there are monotheist Christians AND polytheist muslims (and vice versa) and that of course monotheist Christians would enter paradise.
The word 'christian' a follower of Christ is a later invention (by name). Quran use the word Nasaara (Helpers, or can refer to Nazerath a palestinian city) of the followers of Christ. But in any case, note that vers 569 says'' WHOEVER believes in God and the last day.... '' so in other words, God does not really care about your membership of any sect or religion, what is important is that you believe in god, the last day and do righteous deeds.
I dont really know anything about the people from Mekka, before the islamic crusades destroyed their country and culture. Very few accounts do we possess about them beside for the thousands of hadith sources written only for the sake of insulting the mekkans. But my best guess is, that there exsisted both muslims and kaafirs among the mekkans like in any other place.
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'' WHOEVER believes in God and the last day.... ''
I think the problem lies in understanding the phrase above which is used for believers, not for faithful people who follow their ancestors' religion. And believers are those who believe in the whole book ( i.e. muslims ). 5822 may be a proper verse to better understand the above phrase
5822 You will not find people who believe in GOD and the Last Day befriending those who oppose GOD and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their tribe. For these, He decrees faith into their hearts, and supports them with inspiration from Him, and admits them into gardens with flowing streams wherein they abide forever. GOD is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. These are the party of GOD. Most assuredly, GOD's party are the winners.
It can be easily seen that people who believe in GOD and the Last Day are very faithful to Mohammad. Following verses and hundreds more support this point
565 If the people of the scripture only would have believed and been righteous, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If only they would uphold the Torah and the Gospel, and what is sent down to them herein from their Lord, they would be showered with blessings from above them and from beneath their feet. Some of them are righteous, but many of them are evildoers.
Consequently, the salvation criteria are be a believer (believe in the book) and be righteous (follow the book). The criteria are the same for everybody, i.e. do not change for non-muslims.
To better understand 262 plz read it together with 3199
262 Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in GOD, and believes in the Last Day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
3199 Surely, some followers of the previous scriptures do believe in GOD, and in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed to them. They reverence GOD, and they never trade away GOD's revelations for a cheap price. These will receive their recompense from their Lord. GOD is the most efficient in reckoning.
262 nnellezne amenu vellezne hadu ven nesara ves sabine min amene billahi vel yevmil ahri ve amile salihan fe leh?m ecruh?m nde rabbihim ve la havf?n aleyhim ve la h?m yahzenun
3199 Ve inne min ehlil kitabi le mey y?'min? billahi ve ma ?nzile ileyk?m ve ma ?nzile ileyhim haiyne lillahi la yeterune bi ayatillahi semenen kalla ?laike leh?m ecruh?m nde rabbihim innellahe serul hsab
peace
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Peace Maha
Dear sister. I feel that you judge too much and that you consider yourself to know what God thinks.
I am not a sister
But look just as what you wrote
This applies for all people, not only for christians but also for muslims. Every person, whether he is Christian or Muslim should follow monothoism in order to get salvation. Thats a basic fact. I am not trying to defend any MUSHRIK, whether he calls himself for Christian or Muslim. It just seems to me, that you try to judge ALL christians and in the same time you try to DEFEND the polytheism in Islam.What I am trying to say is, that there are monotheist Christians AND polytheist muslims (and vice versa) and that of course monotheist Christians would enter paradise.
The word 'christian' a follower of Christ is a later invention (by name). Quran use the word Nasaara (Helpers, or can refer to Nazerath a palestinian city) of the followers of Christ. But in any case, note that vers 569 says'' WHOEVER believes in God and the last day.... '' so in other words, God does not really care about your membership of any sect or religion, what is important is that you believe in god, the last day and do righteous deeds.
I dont really know anything about the people from Mekka, before the islamic crusades destroyed their country and culture. Very few accounts do we possess about them beside for the thousands of hadith sources written only for the sake of insulting the mekkans. But my best guess is, that there exsisted both muslims and kaafirs among the mekkans like in any other place.
Again, either you did not understand what I wrote or you didn't bother to read what I said. I said "Trinitarian polytheist Christians". Not all Christians, just those that commit shirk. When I say that there are Christians that will be punished severely, I am talking about polytheist ones and only them. I made it clear when I said, "Those that worship Christ as God." Whethere there are polytheist Muslims is besides the point. I gave you Quranic evidence, I am not saying what I am saying based on my own accord. Now, whether you want to accept it or not is up to you, that is what God says. Not me. Not a man-made aHadith. But God's Hadith.
Peace
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I think the problem lies in understanding the phrase above which is used for believers, not for faithful people who follow their ancestors' religion. And believers are those who believe in the whole book ( i.e. muslims ). 5822 may be a proper verse to better understand the above phrase
5822 You will not find people who believe in GOD and the Last Day befriending those who oppose GOD and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their tribe. For these, He decrees faith into their hearts, and supports them with inspiration from Him, and admits them into gardens with flowing streams wherein they abide forever. GOD is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. These are the party of GOD. Most assuredly, GOD's party are the winners.
It can be easily seen that people who believe in GOD and the Last Day are very faithful to Mohammad. Following verses and hundreds more support this point
565 If the people of the scripture only would have believed and been righteous, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of paradise.
566 If only they would uphold the Torah and the Gospel, and what is sent down to them herein from their Lord, they would be showered with blessings from above them and from beneath their feet. Some of them are righteous, but many of them are evildoers.
Consequently, the salvation criteria are be a believer (believe in the book) and be righteous (follow the book). The criteria are the same for everybody, i.e. do not change for non-muslims.
No that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You are forgetting the thousands to people who never had any access to any book. How can God judge people by a book to which they had absolutely no access too or have no knowledge of???
Monotheism is the fundamental teaching in ALL OF THE SCRIPTURES. It is this teaching that is base for all salvation not any scripture.
7172 When your Lord took from the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this."
Basically every person whether they be an Atheist, Jew , Christian, Hindu (from ANY religion or sect) has the knowledge of an Almighty God. For example who do you think a person will call on when he or she is in life and death situation....
3131 Have you not seen the ships sailing the sea, carrying God's provisions, to show you some of His signs? In that are signs for every one who is patient, thankful.
3132 When waves surround them like mountains, they call on God, sincerely devoting the system to Him. But when He saves them to the shore, some of them revert. None discard Our signs except those who are betrayers, ingrates.
Everyone believes in God and everyone has knowledge of him. The scripture is only meant for those who have knowledge of them or who have access to them. Those who don't will be expected to follow the basics....
The basics....
- We worship God and God alone
- That we do no associate beings with him
- That we do righteous deeds
It is by these basics that people who had no scripture or any book will be judge by.
Ask yourself this question. When Abraham was guided did he have any scripture??? Read Sura 674- 79 . Or did he use logic and reasoning and sincerely seek God and God guided him?That is how guidance works. Sincerity is the key to guidance and Abraham had it in spades. And because he was sincere God guided to the Straight Path. What is the Straight Path????
6161 Say, "My Lord has guided me to a Straight Path. An upright system, the creed of Abraham the monotheist; he was not from those who set up partners."
351 "God is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him, this is a Straight Path."
3660 "Did I not pledge to you, O Children of Adam, that you should not serve the devil for he is your most ardent enemy?"
3661 "That you should serve Me? That is a straight path."Prays, rituals and following of scripture is only binding upon those who have access to scripture. However these things are not the basics of salvation. The basics of salvation is that we worship/serve/give thanks to God and GOD ALONE and that we do not associate beings with him. That is the sum of all of the scriptures. It is a message and teaching that ANYONE can easily be guided to since EVERYONE has the knowledge of an Almighty God. Abraham was able to do it. And he did it during a time when people use to believe that the world was flat and that the mountains used to support the sky. In this day in age of Science what excuse does any man have for not being aware of God?
Some people may ask what is to stop a person from not reading the Quran to do those 'other things(like rituals and regulations etc)' in the first place? The answer to that question is simple. A true monotheist will never do that. It binding upon a servant of God to follow the scripture when he has the means to it. Or else how can he call himself a servant of God if he rejects what God has sent???
However like I said before it the basics of Monotheism which is the Straight path and the doorway to salvation. It is not the scripture.
7172 When your Lord took from the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this."
Peace,
Kevin
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Peace Maha
I am not a sister
Again, either you did not understand what I wrote or you didn't bother to read what I said. I said "Trinitarian polytheist Christians". Not all Christians, just those that commit shirk. When I say that there are Christians that will be punished severely, I am talking about polytheist ones and only them. I made it clear when I said, "Those that worship Christ as God." Whethere there are polytheist Muslims is besides the point. I gave you Quranic evidence, I am not saying what I am saying based on my own accord. Now, whether you want to accept it or not is up to you, that is what God says. Not me. Not a man-made aHadith. But God's Hadith.
Peace
Ok than brother We basically agree and were talking about the same thing. Yes christians who strongly believe and uphold the trinity are committing shirk just as muslims who strongly believe and uphold their wicked hadith are committing shirk. thats very obvious from the quranic verses you showed. But ofcourse i would not judge individually except in extreme cases like hitler, bush, bashar assad etc.
Peace
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Peace Bigmo, all,
I gave the Qur'anic verse which tells you exactly what happens to people that worship disbelieve and worship Jesus as God. How can we dance around the verse and start thinking of ways out of what God says? What God says is clear, what further explanation is needed?
The things about Muslims doing shirk or doing something on par with Christians (which IMO is not even close) is irrelevant as the subject of this talk is Polytheistic Christians. Lets focus on Christians. If we are to talk about shirk in Islam, lets do that in another topic dedicated to that and not derail this one.
Peace
Right, as I said there are Christians who will say Jesus is god, but this is not the doctrine of mainstream Christianity.
What they said was the Jesus is fully god and fully human at the same time. But I am not sure if most Christians understand all this as Christianity is still seen as a monotheist faith.
But you are right that if a person believes that Jesus or whomever is god then he is not a believer in god and is considered a kaffir.
Nobody has been able to explain the trinity.
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No that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You are forgetting the thousands to people who never had any access to any book. How can God judge people by a book to which they had absolutely no access too or have no knowledge of???
sorry for not having given additional explanation but I thought every one with average IQ could think, that the salvation criteria which are nothing but believing and following a book is only valid for those who have access to this book. (and what the book is, depends on the time you live)
for the salvation of those who have no access, Quran doesn't say much as far as I know, since the info is unnecessary (since people without access don't access the info and the people with access don't need the info )
but my opinion is that for people without access, the quranic principle applies that Allah never hold someone responsible for things he is not capable of.
Finally only Allah can decide who has access and who doesn't and the consequences.
but today in the information era it is only a matter of seconds to access Quran (depending on your internet connection speed ), so nonmuslims shouldn't hope to evade fire.
After all, our duty as muslims is to warn/threaten nonmuslims with this Quran.
The basics....
- We worship God and God alone
- That we do no associate beings with him
- That we do righteous deeds
It is by these basics that people who had no scripture or any book will be judge by.
I like this. At least it shows that 3 requirements in verse 262 aren't the minimum salvation criteria since God replaced your second "basic" requirement with another one that we do believe in afterlife.
peace
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What they said was the Jesus is fully god and fully human at the same time. But I am not sure if most Christians understand all this as Christianity is still seen as a monotheist faith.
Their 'exact' word is actually 'fully DIVINE and fully human' at the same time..
Xtianity (just like sunniism, shiitism and others) is the result of syncretism from many traditions/beliefs/cultures..The word "DIVINE" was a loan word from Latin "DIVO" which also a loan word Proto-Indo-Iranian (Ancient central asia + caucasus language) DEIWO with literal meanings of "Shining"... ANother derivation of "DEIWO" are found in Sanskrit "DEVA".. with the same (literal) meanings "Shining".
In cultural context the meanings of "DEIWO" become "Shining Beings" -> "Supernatural / Coming From Heaven beings".
Within Hinduism, Krishna is another example of figure who often refered as "DEVA", much of it is due to a segment within "Gita" where it's told Krishna shows his 'true form' to Arjuna which being described as "Majesticly Shining".
Within eastern cultural traditions.. the 'universal force / power' a.k.a 'Brahman' often 'descended/manifested' as 'avatar'. These avatars are often 'descended' from 'heaven' to meddle with human affairs. Mostly their objective of 'descending' is to restore 'dharma' (Good deeds / righteousness) upon the earth. The word 'avatar' by itself has a literal meanings of 'descent'.
A quite similar concept can be found within western cultural traditions, only the names are different, they call 'avatar' as 'angelos' (Greek for messenger) or 'Malakh' (Semitic). They believe that these 'angels' / 'malakh' are also 'made of light' (shining) and 'supernatural'.. Although within their tradition there are many legends and stories where those avatar/malakh/angel can also take form as 'human being' with flesh and blood. Similar story also appears in the Quran.
As thus the statement of X as "Divine and human" at the same time is actually carry the notions that X is a kind of 'the universal force /power''s angel or avatar but not 'the universal power / force' itself. Although they are some kind of 'the universal force / power's manifestation.
As thus; to which concept does one map the word "God" to?.. to "Avatar"/"DEIWO"? or to the "Universal Force/Power"?
I left that to each individuals...Just sharing that with you guys for your better understanding...
Salam / Peace