Converting Iraqi Muslims to Christianity
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This is an interesting video. For years Muslim fanatics have been insisting that the Western attacks on Palestine and Iraq are part of a holy war. I always thought it was fanatical mambo jumbo. However, this video is really interesting and discusses the work of missionaries in Iraq. It's in German, with Arabic subtitles, so I am not sure how many here would be able to understand it. However, it is very interesting.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6nw262YJDs
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Peace Confused,
Interesting!
Another example is that of Pakistan, and most probably India aswell. You will see muslims and christians living side by side in peace like normal human beings. Then you will see so called padres coming from mostly eastern European countries spreading their hatred among the christians for the muslims... all sort of nonsensical things. Very sad to see how people work so hard to spread hatred among human beings. Very very sad.And then we have the old british remains like christian convent schools that are really sick and morally unhealthy institutions... but to be honest, the wealthy ones of e.g. Pakistan themselves choose to send their children there, because they are not yet free, in their minds and attitudes, of their former colonial master. This is something they choose to cling on to... so I guess they deserve it.
Anyhow...
Peace
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This is an interesting video. For years Muslim fanatics have been insisting that the Western attacks on Palestine and Iraq are part of a holy war. I always thought it was fanatical mambo jumbo. However, this video is really interesting and discusses the work of missionaries in Iraq. It's in German, with Arabic subtitles, so I am not sure how many here would be able to understand it. However, it is very interesting.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6nw262YJDs
Of course the missionaries work anywhere... trying to convert anyone...
And it's not rare to find them file in a (fake) report on how successful they are in order to get more $$$$...Salam / Peace
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In the subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) it was very often the poorest people who were converted to christianity. They were at the bottom of the caste system and had nothing to lose. Till today you will see the link between the poor classes and christianity in the subcontinent. Both poverty and christianity has been inherited throughout generations. Some people who either don't know the history, or just are out to spread lies and hatred, may claim that christians are specifically discriminated against and thereby explaining the poverty by blaming the situations on the other religions. No doubt there is always discrimination to be found between religions in this area... but as always... this is due to human negativity and malice, and not the religions (christianity, islam, sikhism, hinduism etc) themselves.
peace
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Peace Confused,
Interesting!
Another example is that of Pakistan, and most probably India as well. You will see Muslims and Christians living side by side in peace like normal human beings.This has got to be the winning post here today.
Why, let me give you an example of side by side living;
Once I was out shopping with a friend and came across a person sitting outside on the footpath of an eating place and was somewhat puzzled thinking in my mind "these people still have that old mind set which I knew when I lived in Pakistan before", so ia sked my friend
"why is he sitting here on the ground with a chapatti on his hand and curry on the chapatti instead of in a plate!?"I won't tell you what he said, but minority religions are considered an abomination in Pakistan. And i visit it every year and lived there for nine years.
but saying all that may be Zulf has lived in a different part to me.
Then you will see so called padres coming from mostly eastern European countries spreading their hatred among the Christians for the Muslims... all sort of nonsensical things.
Very sad to see how people work so hard to spread hatred among human beings. Very sad.Has anybody seen the video shown on the british TV, Muslim cleric?s hatred of the Kafirs (Christians and the rest of them)?
And then we have the old British remains like Christian convent schools that are really sick and morally unhealthy institutions... but to be honest, the wealthy ones of e.g. Pakistan themselves choose to send their children there, because they are not yet free, in their minds and attitudes, of their former colonial master. This is something they choose to cling on to... so I guess they deserve it.
Even in this country we love to send our children for education to Roman Catholic schools and Jewish Grammar schools why is it, because it benefits us or is it something else?
Anyhow...
Peace
We should thank God Almighty for bringing us to these good people and freedom to practice what you and I believe rather than being forced to be a Hindu a Sikh a Muslim a Christian..........and what ever.
Interesting! -
Of course...
The USA missionaries are working very well in China and soon China will be a Christian nation.. That has been the way for centuries... Colonialists and Church enter countries together.. Church applies anesthesia and the colonialists or corporations start sucking the blood.
Remember Kenyatta's statement? "We had the land; they had the Bible. They told us 'let's close our eyes and pray.' When we opened our eyes, we had the Bibles in our hands and they had our land."
I have written this articles about a decade ago; but it is current as if I wrote today
http//19.org/164/beware-priests-are-singing-love-again/
Check this one, for instance.
http//www.abnsat.com/
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Of course...
The USA missionaries are working very well in China and soon China will be a Christian nation.. That has been the way for centuries... Colonialists and Church enter countries together.. Church applies anesthesia and the colonialists or corporations start sucking the blood.
It makes sense for "USA Churches" (or any other churches / mosques/ synagogues or other organized religion brand) for expanding to China. Given 25 years from now they will be the most economically powerful nation in the world. The richest nation in the world... a lot of $$$$!.
Although I doubt that China will be colony of anyone (including USA), most probably USA will be colonized by China 100 years from now.. People Republic of China is the #1 Creditor to USA at the moment. Americans owe a lot of $$$$ to the chinese..
Remember Kenyatta's statement? "We had the land; they had the Bible. They told us 'let's close our eyes and pray.' When we opened our eyes, we had the Bibles in our hands and they had our land."
For China, I think it will be
"We had the land, the resources, the people, the money and they had the bible/quran.. And we told told them 'let's close our eyes and pray.' When they opened their eyes, we had the Bibles/Quran in our hands, and bought their Basilica in Rome, The Kabba in Mecca.. and they had NOTHING"..
rotfl rotfl rotfl
100 years from now Hajj trip will be to Yangtze River.. rotflrotfl
(Which is a far more beautiful place than the arid desert plain)..
Salam / Peace
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I saw all this interview before about how six million Africans convert to Christianity every year. That is a scary and disturbing number. Here's the link
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo
Why is it scary? And why should we care? In fact Christianity has less differences with us than Sunni and Shias.
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No they don't. Christians believe that Jesus is God/son of God, that's a major difference with Islam.
So??
They glorify Jesus, how's that much difference with those who glorify Muhammad?
Converting from Sunniism to Christianism is just a matter of changing the long dead person to be glorified and worshiped..But again not all Christians really glorify Jesus in the same manner as not all Sunnis glorify Muhammad...
Having said that, within "Organized Religion Industry", the so-called 'news' of 'many moslems converted to xtians in X region' or 'many X converted to Y religion in Z region' is the most common 'selling story' to gain more $$$$ from 'donation' to the Proselytizing effort.
The 'news' only matter to those who are actively or passively involved in the "Organized Religion Industry"...
Salam / Peace
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So??
They glorify Jesus, how's that much difference with those who glorify Muhammad?
Converting from Sunniism to Christianism is just a matter of changing the long dead person to be glorified and worshiped..But again not all Christians really glorify Jesus in the same manner as not all Sunnis glorify Muhammad...
Having said that, within "Organized Religion Industry", the so-called 'news' of 'many moslems converted to xtians in X region' or 'many X converted to Y religion in Z region' is the most common 'selling story' to gain more $$$$ from 'donation' to the Proselytizing effort.
The 'news' only matter to those who are actively or passively involved in the "Organized Religion Industry"...
Salam / Peace
I'm not telling you that Christianity is the truth or Islam is the truth. I am just rebutting the idea that they have more in common with us than the Sunni and Shia Muslims. There is a huge difference about who Jesus really is and no it is not similar to Islam at all.
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This has got to be the winning post here today.
Thanks! What category?
Why, let me give you an example of side by side living;
Once I was out shopping with a friend and came across a person sitting outside on the footpath of an eating place and was somewhat puzzled thinking in my mind "these people still have that old mind set which I knew when I lived in Pakistan before", so ia sked my friend
"why is he sitting here on the ground with a chapatti on his hand and curry on the chapatti instead of in a plate!?"
but saying all that may be Zulf has lived in a different part to me.
So you've never seen any muslims on the side walk without a plate?? Is it only christians?
The point was not to show that christians are not discriminated against... the point was to show that there are christian "forces" from abroad in the country with the purpose to create further divide! If the christians were so good as you seem to mean, when you gave the example of their schools, why are they then coming to spread hatred among the citizens? Would that help the situation you think?
I'm talking about Lahore and Rawalpindi...
Has anybody seen the video shown on the british TV, Muslim cleric?s hatred of the Kafirs (Christians and the rest of them)?
What's you point? Does a barking mullah cancel out a malicious padre? What do you want to show? Of course you will find plenty malicious mullahs.... so? what has that to do with the padres???
Even in this country we love to send our children for education to Roman Catholic schools and Jewish Grammar schools why is it, because it benefits us or is it something else?
yes, it is something else.
It cannot be to learn open-mindedness at least... and before you reply I will say that this goes for madrassas aswell. And I'm sure it isn't is for the benefit either. What benefit would that be?
For those who can afford convent schools, there are also other schools available where you can get equally good education.
My point is not that these schools suck educationally, which I'm sure they don't... but they are definitely against islam in spirit and practice. This information I get from people who have been put through these schools... I myself has not grow up in that country.
And there is for sure a culture stemming from the colonial days when the brits where the masters. They are still the masters today if you look closely. Fair-and-lovely creams are rampant... everything white, and especially british (or nowadays also american) is very highly regarded... at least among a bit educated people.
Please notice the whole point of my original post. It was not to say that christians are not discriminated against. The point was to highlight the christian foreign hand with a destructive objective, i.e. spreading hatred. It's a fact, regardless of other facts.
We should thank God Almighty for bringing us to these good people and freedom to practice what you and I believe rather than being forced to be a Hindu a Sikh a Muslim a Christian..........and what ever.
"Bring us to these good people"??? Bringing us? Good people??
The christian run schools do NOT let you practice other religions! There are however schools with american and british systems where students of different religions study, and are allowed to follow their religion.... but these generally have higher fee structure and are not available to the masses.peace!
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Thanks! What category?
So you've never seen any muslims on the side walk without a plate?? Is it only christians?
He is considered unclean(not paak) that is why he is sitting on the footpath- he isn't allowed to eat in a plate as the plate will become unclean too, sorry that is what i learnt when i was young and lived in Pakistan, and now feel disgust at such a teaching.
The point was not to show that christians are not discriminated against... the point was to show that there are christian "forces" from abroad in the country with the purpose to create further divide! If the christians were so good as you seem to mean, when you gave the example of their schools, why are they then coming to spread hatred among the citizens? Would that help the situation you think?
I'm talking about Lahore and Rawalpindi...
What's you point? Does a barking mullah cancel out a malicious padre? What do you want to show? Of course you will find plenty malicious mullahs.... so? what has that to do with the padres???
how are they creating trouble? surely not if they are merely teaching their bible!
yes, it is something else.
It cannot be to learn open-mindedness at least... and before you reply I will say that this goes for madrassas aswell. And I'm sure it isn't is for the benefit either. What benefit would that be?
For those who can afford convent schools, there are also other schools available where you can get equally good education.
I think convenent schools may be the only one available,as the demand for such educationally inspiring schools is high.
My point is not that these schools suck educationally, which I'm sure they don't... but they are definitely against islam in spirit and practice. This information I get from people who have been put through these schools... I myself has not grow up in that country.
Yes some things are against Islam, but we must teach some things at home to our kids too- are we lazy at it or what?then we cry our kids havn't the manners of our deen!
And there is for sure a culture stemming from the colonial days when the brits where the masters. They are still the masters today if you look closely. Fair-and-lovely creams are rampant... everything white, and especially british (or nowadays also american) is very highly regarded... at least among a bit educated people.
Please notice the whole point of my original post. It was not to say that christians are not discriminated against. The point was to highlight the christian foreign hand with a destructive objective, i.e. spreading hatred. It's a fact, regardless of other facts.
Where are the facts?
"Bring us to these good people"??? Bringing us? Good people??
The christian run schools do NOT let you practice other religions! There are however schools with american and british systems where students of different religions study, and are allowed to follow their religion.... but these generally have higher fee structure and are not available to the masses.you said it "we sometimes can't afford them", so we go for the next best thing.
peace!
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He is considered unclean(not paak) that is why he is sitting on the footpath- he isn't allowed to eat in a plate as the plate will become unclean too, sorry that is what i learnt when i was young and lived in Pakistan, and now feel disgust at such a teaching.
I understand, and I agree. I know there is alot of crap ideas about paak and napaak... so I would not say you are wrong... but I fin it hard to believe it is "institutionalized".... and by the way, the poorest people we now talk about eat in different styles, different places, getting their food through different means and sources... so all poor christians are not without "plates".
how are they creating trouble? surely not if they are merely teaching their bible!
True, if that was the case. But this is not all that goes on!!! That's the whole point!
I'm talking about padres etc with beards sometimes longer than the mullahs', preaching to poor christians (because it is the poor who are targeted!) not to accept anything in terms of help or otherwise from their muslim neighbours. I was told about many such events by for example one house maid (christian) who indeed used to live peacefully side by side with their muslim neighbours as per her own testimony... even at times exchanging food etc with eachother. She narrated the padres (as she called them) came from abroad and insisted they cut the relations with the muslim neighbours. They were e.g. not allowed to accept food from them as they had not mentioned the name of jesus over the meat.I think convenent schools may be the only one available,as the demand for such educationally inspiring schools is high.
No. Not true. And they are not more educationally inspiring than many other schools. Are you living outside Pakistan?
Yes some things are against Islam, but we must teach some things at home to our kids too- are we lazy at it or what?then we cry our kids havn't the manners of our deen!
True. But most muslims, as far as I reckon, has not much clue about the deen as given in the quran. They only know what their mullahs and authorities dictate.
Where are the facts?
The facts are on the ground, on the streets, in real life.... go out and see!
The convents are also not available to the masses! It is the educated (but ignorant) muslim families who send their children to these schools as a way of getting status. It's so stupid. As far as the poor people are concerned, they are not targeted through fancy schools...
Peace!
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I'm not telling you that Christianity is the truth or Islam is the truth. I am just rebutting the idea that they have more in common with us than the Sunni and Shia Muslims. There is a huge difference about who Jesus really is and no it is not similar to Islam at all.
And what does one opinion upon a person who lived and died 2000 years make up for such a "Huge Differences" ????
I see more similarity for those who had a dispute regarding Mr . X who lived and died 2000 years ago, where they think Mr. X is Y and the other who think Mr. X is Z..
Whatever X, Y, Z is..
X can be Jesus,
Y can be "Died on the Cross"
and Z can be "Didn't die on the cross"...They're both Stupid and Ridiculous...
Given They never ever met Mr. X since they live 2000 years apart with Mr. X.Salam / Peace
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And what does one opinion upon a person who lived and died 2000 years make up for such a "Huge Differences" ????
I see more similarity for those who had a dispute regarding Mr . X who lived and died 2000 years ago, where they think Mr. X is Y and the other who think Mr. X is Z..
Whatever X, Y, Z is..
X can be Jesus,
Y can be "Died on the Cross"
and Z can be "Didn't die on the cross"...They're both Stupid and Ridiculous...
Given They never ever met Mr. X since they live 2000 years apart with Mr. X.Salam / Peace
You can think of it as stupid and as ridiculous as you like. But similar no? It's like saying that an apple and an orange are exactly the same because they are both round, when we both know that they taste completely different.
Anyway it seems that you are the kind of person who is incapable of having a polite debate and just enjoy aggravating the person you are talking to, which is very immature. I used to enjoy this style of debating when I was in my early 20s, but at 31 no. Either you tell me your point of view without being offensive or let's not talk at all. We are all adults here and there is no need for that kind of behavior.
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I'm not telling you that Christianity is the truth or Islam is the truth. I am just rebutting the idea that they have more in common with us than the Sunni and Shia Muslims. There is a huge difference about who Jesus really is and no it is not similar to Islam at all.
Other than the issue of jJesus's divinity, what other issue Christians differ with us on? Meanwhile I could go for two whole days to explain the differences between us and your average Muslim. Plus all Sunni authority and Shia authority would wish you were dead right now. Better think again.
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Other than the issue of jJesus's divinity, what other issue Christians differ with us on? Meanwhile I could go for two whole days to explain the differences between us and your average Muslim. Plus all Sunni authority and Shia authority would wish you were dead right now. Better think again.
You make it seem like the issue of Jesus divinity is a little thing. That is a big deal, a huge deal, a massive deal. O0