Converting Iraqi Muslims to Christianity
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Not once but always I would defend those who need to be defended. In contrast you sound eerily similar to the heartless warmongers in Pentagon... "American administrations have stressed that the U.S. is at war with terrorists who have a distorted view of the religion"
http//www.hurriyetdailynews.com/pentagon-halts-class-teaching-anti-islam-material-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=19331&NewsCatID=358
hmm
In fact the ongoing wars are wars OF terror against those who refuse to submit to the Empire. So the real aim was not to throw Saddam Hussian out and establish democracy, but to put the 'right' religion in dominance in Iraq. bravoI don't think you are a Koranist. First you say I am a defender of the AmericanEmpire, then you call me a Paulite Christian following some trend. I can't see how you are a Koranist.
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He is considered unclean(not paak) that is why he is sitting on the footpath- he isn't allowed to eat in a plate as the plate will become unclean too, sorry that is what i learnt when i was young and lived in Pakistan, and now feel disgust at such a teaching.
how are they creating trouble? surely not if they are merely teaching their bible!Where are the facts?
peace!
Salaam
The reason is that most Muslims in Pakistan and India were originally Hindus and still carry much of the Hindu mindset.
These are the facts
It was Harijaan, the untouchable, who were targeted by the Colonial powers, and which lead them to convert to Christanity, but in the real world they were never given the same status as the Hindus or Muslims. This idea of paak and napaak is what Hindu upper class or Brahmin did when they accidently touched "A'choot" they rushed, chanting Ram Ram, to purify themselves with Ganga water.
However there were many untouchable who became Muslim, like the ones in Shri Lanka and in India and Pakistan too. Sadly they are often discriminated against on the basis of their dark colour.
Peace -
I don't think you are a Koranist. First you say I am a defender of the AmericanEmpire, then you call me a Paulite Christian following some trend. I can't see how you are a Koranist.
I don't call myself Koranist I call myself a muslim who upholds Quran over all other teachings. I reject anything that clashes with the Qur'an.
Please do not put words into my mouth I said you sound eerily similar to the heartless warmongers in Pentagon
Secondly it is you who is defending Paul by bringing up some remote quotes from him to prove Paul never claimed Jesus was God and never did he ever say that God is a Trinity similar to some hediths you dig up against Sunnies.
peace -
I don't call myself Koranist I call myself a muslim who upholds Quran over all other teachings. I reject anything that clashes with the Qur'an.
Please do not put words into my mouth I said you sound eerily similar to the heartless warmongers in Pentagon
Secondly it is you who is defending Paul by bringing up some remote quotes from him to prove Paul never claimed Jesus was God and never did he ever say that God is a Trinity similar to some hediths you dig up against Sunnies.
peaceThat is a fact. Every Christian cleric will tell you that there is no explict verse in the Gospel about the Trinity. Anyways who are you to even talk about Paul? You defended the Taliban and claimed that the hadith I quoted has nothing to do with their beliefs. Ok, then go live there and find out.
Herat The Taliban publicly flogged and then executed a pregnant Afghan widow by firing three shots into her head for alleged adultery, police said on Monday.
Bibi Sanubar, 35, was kept in captivity for three days before she was shot dead in a public trial on Sunday by a local Taliban commander in the Qadis district of the rural western province Badghis.
The Taliban accused Sanubar of having an "illicit affair" that left her pregnant. She was first punished with 200 lashes in public, deputy provincial police chief Ghulam Mohammad Sayeedi said.
The widow was given dozens of lashes before being shot dead on Sunday in the remote Qades district, held by the militants in northwestern Badghis province, said Abdul Jabar who serves as a senior officer in the province.
"It happened before the public...despite that no one has complained, the government will take its own measures about the incident," Jabar told Reuters by phone from Badghis.
The unidentified man who had the alleged affair with the woman had escaped, he said.
When in power from 1996 untill 2001, the radical Taliban staged public stonings or lashings of those found to have sex outside marriage. A spokesman for the Taliban. who lead the insurgency against the Afghan government and foreign forces, said he was not aware of the incident and could not comment on it.
If confirmed, Sunday's execution would be the second of a woman by the Taliban since their ouster from power nine years ago. A woman was previously executed for alleged spying for foreign forces.
The judiciary in neighbouring Iran last month suspended a sentence of death by stoning for a woman convicted of adultery after an international outcry over the case
http//gulfnews.com/news/world/afghanistan/taliban-flog-execute-pregnant-afghan-woman-in-public-1.665852
Could these hadiths be why?
On the authority of
Abdullah ibnAbbas that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "If you find anybody committing the act of the People of Lot (i.e. sodomy), then kill the one doing it and the one with whom it is done." This hadith is recorded by Imam Ahmad, Imam Abu Dawud, and Imam At-Tirmidhi among others. elektroNarrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad's judgment, Allah's Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah's Apostle said (to the Ansar), "Stand up for your leader." Then Sad came and sat beside Allah's Apostle who said to him. "These people are ready to accept your judgment." Sad said, "I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners." The Prophet then remarked, "O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah." Bukhari hypno hypno hypno
Narrated Aisha No woman of Banu Qurayzah was killed except one. She was with me, talking and laughing on her back and belly (extremely), while the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was killing her people with the swords. Suddenly a man called her name Where is so-and-so? She said I I asked What is the matter with you? She said I did a new act. She said The man took her and beheaded her. She said I will not forget that she was laughing extremely although she knew that she would be killed. Abu Dawood nope
Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair. Abu Dawood >D
Narrated Ibn Umar Bani An-Nadir and Bani Quraiza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again). He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Bani Qainuqa, the tribe of Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina. Bukhari >D
"Awf ibn Malik reported that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said, 'The Jews split into 71 sects one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 sects 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose hand is my soul, my Ummah will split into 73 sects one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell.' Someone asked, 'O Messenger ofAllah (Peace be upon him), who will they be?' He replied, 'The main body of the Muslims (al-Jama'ah).' Awf ibn Malik is the only one who reported this Hadith, and its isnad is acceptable." And in another version of this Hadith the Prophet (Peace be upon him) goes onto say that the saved sect, "...Are those who follow my and my Sahaba's path" (Tirmidhi, vol. 2, pg. 89)
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to ?Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn ?Abbas who said, ?If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah?s Apostle forbade it, saying, ?Do not punish anybody with Allah?s punishment (fire).? I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah?s Apostle, ?Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him. Bukhari voodoo
Allah's Apostle sent us in a mission (i.e. am army-unit) and said, "If you find so-and-so and so-and-so, burn both of them with fire." When we intended to depart, Allah's Apostle said, "I have ordered you to burn so-and-so and so-and-so, and it is none but Allah Who punishes with fire, so, if you find them, kill them." Bukhari elektro
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have." Bukhari
Abu Musa said, ?I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash?ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah?s Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak ), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, ?O Abu Musa (O ?Abdullah bin Qais!).? I said, ?By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.? As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, ?We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or ?Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.?? The Prophet then sent Mu?adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu?adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu?adh asked, ?Who is this (man)?? Abu Muisa said, ?He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.? Then Abu Muisa requested Mu?adh to sit down but Mu?adh said, ?I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, ?Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, ?I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.?? Bukhari
Some people from the tribe of ?Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die. Bukhari
Imam Shafi, may Allah have mercy upon him, said the Imam is given the choice of killing the prisoners, showing them mercy, ransoming them or keeping them in bondage. This issue has been confirmed and has been proven in our book 'Al Ahkam.' (Tafsir of the Qur'an by Ibn Kathir ) tempt
According to the Qur'an a woman who has been captured by force falls in the category of a slave girl (kaniz). And because the Qur'an confines the use of force to the fighting (qital) in the way of God, thus according to the Qur'an a slave girl is that woman who falls in the hands of Muslims as a prisoner during the course of war waged in the way of God. (Maulana Maududi, Rasa'il wa Masa'il 3rd edition, Vol. III, p.102).
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas Ikrimah reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas, saying I think the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw. ( Bukhari ) rotfl
'Umar b. Muhammad b. Zaid reported that he heard his father narrating from Ibn 'Umar that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had said. If bad luck is a fact, then it is in the horse, the woman and the house. (Bukhari) hypno
You just don't get it do you? brickwall
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That is a fact. Every Christian cleric will tell you that there is no explict verse in the Gospel about the Trinity. Anyways who are you to even talk about Paul? You defended the Taliban and claimed that the hadith I quoted has nothing to do with their beliefs. Ok, then go live there and find out.
You just don't get it do you? brickwall
Don't bang your head against the wall, just because I do not fall for your propaganda. I have no desire to talk about Paul or hadiths or the Taliban these are the subject which take most of your time not mine and I think you know very well that I do get what is the bottom line exactly where this defence of Paul wll eventually lead to. yes
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Don't bang your head against the wall, just because I do not fall for your propaganda. I think you know very well that I do get what is the bottom line exactly where this defence of Paul wll eventually lead to. yes
You are weird. I can't see how you are a Koranist. I wonder what your agenda here is.
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I do not need your approval or sea of a Koranist.
My agenda is very different from your if you that what you call weird.Exactly! That is why I am suspicious of you. Your agenda is different. I have never met a Koranist who defended the Taliban. I have never met a Koranist who accused me of supporting the American Empire because I attacked the Taliban. As a woman its hard to see how you can defend the Taliban and claim my attack on them is American propaganda. You also seem to think hadiths play no role in how the Taliban govern. Well collect some Fatwas of theirs and see for yourself. The Taliban are probably the Koranist biggest enemies and you are defending them.
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Exactly! That is why I am suspicious of you. Your agenda is different. I have never met a Koranist who defended the Taliban. I have never met a Koranist who accused me of supporting the American Empire because I attacked the Taliban. As a woman its hard to see how you can defend the Taliban and claim my attack on them is American propaganda. You also seem to think hadiths play no role in how the Taliban govern. Well collect some Fatwas of theirs and see for yourself. The Taliban are probably the Koranist biggest enemies and you are defending them.
Taliban are a religious movement, mainly of Pashtoon origin, and they have lived the way the do for many many years and could have carried on living like this for the next century, if only they did not have huge mineral resourses in their land. I don't need to defend the Taliban; they are bloody good at defending themselves.
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I don't need to defend the Taliban; they are bloody good at defending themselves.
...but in earlier post you said
Not once but always I would defend those who need to be defended.
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i was talking to a friend of mine (christian) who was interested to learn about islam but was turned off/away. i was explaining that mainstream muslims don't follow the koran and how the sharia and practices are based on hadiths.
thanks for your post bigmo. i was thinking of doing just that - collecting the hadiths to help explain to non-muslims. just the same, i know a lot of muslims who also don't have an understanding of islam and are turned away. how many muslims know about hadiths and have read them and thought about them?
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...but in earlier post you said
Exactly; I will defend those who need to be defended, telling about one's personal experience with the Pashtoon/Taliban does not mean I am defending them. One should rely on first hand accounts rather than on U-tube, which often employs actors to spread lies.
I live in the west and going with the flow is considered normal here; otherwise one is denounced as a radical so it will benefit me to keep my mouth shut and agree with what's in the media. I would now invite those who've had first hand experience of brutality from Taliban to come forward and tell us about their experiences.
Salaam -
you can understand other's behavior, beliefs, views, etc but understanding doesn't mean condoning or excusing. and certain acts absolutely cannot be defended.
stoning do death for adultery which has been carried out and which are based on hadiths are not some propaganda. it is what it is.
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you can understand other's behavior, beliefs, views, etc but understanding doesn't mean condoning or excusing. and certain acts absolutely cannot be defended.
stoning do death for adultery which has been carried out and which are based on hadiths are not some propaganda. it is what it is.
Good point. The sad thing about this is its going to take some brutal flooging before she realizes what we are dealing with. She probably is talking about the lay men who do not know much. Let her go a Taliban court and tell them she believes in following Koran alone and we will see what kind of experience she will have. Her Sunni friends in Afghanistan will not even lift a finger when that happens since they can not publicly condemn what is considered Shariah law. That is when she will realize.
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you can understand other's behavior, beliefs, views, etc but understanding doesn't mean condoning or excusing. and certain acts absolutely cannot be defended.
Yes of course one must not condone or excuse any aggression, so what do you say about Drones? How do you denfend what happened in the village of Datta Khel ?
Good point. The sad thing about this is its going to take some brutal flooging before she realizes what we are dealing with.
No need to talk about me ; talk to me straight. You are speculating about what could happen to me at the hands of the Taliban, I asked you to bring facts on table, the testimony of people who have first or second hand knowledge, NOT U-Tube propoganda .
Here, for your information, is accounts of what is happening to innocent civilain in Afganistan NOW!!
Taliban use Sharia Law; what law is used here?!
The case below is being brought by legal charity Reprieve, and by the Islamabad-based lawyer Shahzad Akbar and the Foundation for Fundamental Rights, which focuses on civilian victims of CIA drone strikes in Pakistan.
This major case in the British High Court has revealed fresh evidence of civilian deaths during a notorious CIA drone strike in Pakistan last year.
Sworn witness testimonies reveal in graphic detail how the village of Datta Khel burned for hours after the attack. Many of the dozens killed had to be buried in pieces.
A recent Bureau investigation with the Sunday Times quoted Brigadier Abdullah Dogar, who commanded Pakistani military forces in the area at the time.
Sworn affidavits .....
Most of those who died in Datta Khel village that day were civilians. The Bureau has so far identified by name 24 of those killed, whilst Associated Press recently reported that it has the names of 42 civilians who died that day...
We in the Pakistan military knew about the meeting, we?d got the request ten days earlier. It was held in broad daylight, people were sitting out in Nomada bus depot when the missile strikes came. Maybe there were one or two Taliban at that Jirga ? they have their people attending ? but does that justify a drone strike which kills 42 mostly innocent people?....Oh its only Afghans not me you don't need any legal way to get rid of them just kill them right left and centre after all they are sitting on heap of mineral resources
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Exactly! That is why I am suspicious of you. Your agenda is different. I have never met a Koranist who defended the Taliban. I have never met a Koranist who accused me of supporting the American Empire because I attacked the Taliban. As a woman its hard to see how you can defend the Taliban and claim my attack on them is American propaganda. You also seem to think hadiths play no role in how the Taliban govern. Well collect some Fatwas of theirs and see for yourself. The Taliban are probably the Koranist biggest enemies and you are defending them.
She is not a koranist. She is a VERY confused person who knows nothing about the quran. Sometimes she comes up with strange ideas, like her husband having prostitutes in his home, while other times she praises taliban who used to beat women on streets. Farida is really embarresing. As a koranist woman, i am REALLY ashamed of her. May God guide her, inshAllah.
Peace
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Yes of course one must not condone or excuse any aggression, so what do you say about Drones? How do you denfend what happened in the village of Datta Khel ?
Ok - are we talking about Islam, hadiths and people converting to Christianity or politics/war/foreign policy?
I don't really watch the news and I don't know what happened in Afghanistan to comment.
Whatever happened in the village of Datta Khel does not negate the fact that sharia law is based heavily on hadiths. Non-muslim have this misunderstanding that sharia laws are based on the Koran - like the one about stoning to death.
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She is not a koranist..... Farida is really embarresing. As a koranist woman, i am REALLY ashamed of her. May God guide her, inshAllah.
Peace
maha, that's a bit harsh/hurtful - wouldn't you say? from reading the posts on this thread, farida has issues with the american foreign policy pointing out the hypocrisy from her standpoint. also, questioning if brutal acts were actually carried out by a group does not necessarily mean that you are defending that group. someone who follows the sharia law/hadiths can defend acts like stoning to death but that is not based on the koran and it is important for people to understand that, especially non-muslims who are turned off/away from islam or converting to christianity that God does not command us to carry out brutal acts. contrary to popular belief, God is forgiving and just.
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Ok - are we talking about Islam, hadiths and people converting to Christianity or politics/war/foreign policy?
.. . Whatever happened in the village of Datta Khel does not negate the fact that sharia law is based heavily on hadiths. Non-muslim have this misunderstanding that sharia laws are based on the Koran - like the one about stoning to death.Salaam
If you remember Iraq never had Sharia law enforced, Sadam Hussian like Asad of Syria was from Baath party so Shria cannot be the reason for their conversion. It is Bigmo who is advocating for Paul and brought in Taliban which I discussed in another thread.I don't really watch the news and I don't know what happened in Afghanistan to comment.
You are not losing much from not watching news. You will not hear about real issues in mass media. Also no matter how much you explain to non muslim propagandist that Sharia law is not Islamic, or that Jihad does not mean 'holy war' (actually a Christian concept from the Crusades), or that most hadiths are a stain upon Islam, they will never give you the kind of coverage that they give to loud mouthed mullahs, but if you join the mainstream Muslim and Taliban bashing you will be their darling. So there is a huge difference between standing up for Islam and going with the flow.
Peace