Inheritance according to Qur?an

Noon_waalqalami

I have areadly told you that plural nouns include individual unit while referring to collective group. So is in English in certain contects.

In English you can say "If a son were your offspring-----" this is correct because offspring is also singular.

But the same thing you can not say by using ; "If a son was ". Neither can you use this word in a sentence like saying "If was a son". But in English you can say this "If your offspring was a son---". Here the offspring again stands both for a singular and plural.

You are purposly restricting yourself to the meanings of this word, but you are not trying to listen as to how languages work to communicate the intent by using a particular word.

Noon, why are you overlooking this again

Mazhar, you are confusing yourself with English grammar ignoring simple logic refuse to answer simple question -- are solitary son and/or dual children excluded in the verses posted Yes/No?

Illogical to say

Another can suckle "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!
Never benefit you "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!

411 yskumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) relatives yours and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...

Dear Noon,

The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;
Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/

Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.

That's easy one and you are behind; please distribute requested of you twice earlier...

Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 025131 AM
It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."

Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.

Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?

mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sisters

mother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sisters

In kaanat wahidatan obviously is referring to the one that is wahidatan, it is not referring to anybody else, but it is still part of the instructions about auladikum. We are not being told that the subject about what the adressees are being instructed has changed.

Yes and where are instructions for exactly two females/daughters?
Likewise where exactly are the instructions for 3+ female/sisters?

The answer to above questions is key to solving inheritance issue.

Of course if you invent somethying that is hot said in 4.34, you can do anything out of grammar, but in that case not only you, anybody can, nun de plume and even Chrarlie.

Are ar eno husbands and wives in 4.34. None no subject of dual there. If you can find such a thing in 4.34. We can find anything anywhere in the Qur'an. And that Mazhar says it does not work as a proof.

Salaam

Looking at 434 in context obviously about finances and considering "strikes ye them" from financial means/inheritance...

433 and to each made we heirs from what left the parents and the close relatives and the ones pledged right hands yours so give ye them share theirs surely the god be on each thing witness of

434 the menfolk maintaining over the womenfolk in what favor the god some them over others and in what spend they of from wealth theirs so the righteous (f/p) obedient (f/p) guardians (f/p) to the unseen in what safeguarded the god and the ones whom (f/p) thou fearing recalcitrant theirs (f/p) so admonish ye them (f/p) and leaves ye them (f/p) in the rest place wa-iaribuhunna/and strikes ye them (f/p) so if obey you so not seek ye of over them (f/p) way of surely the god be height of immense

Peace

Mazhar

Dear Noon,

The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;
Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/

Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.

Please allocate according to your logic.

huruf

All womenfolk are not inheritors of all mensfolk, and the opposito is also true. 3.34 does not say anything about inheritance. The subject has changed and inheritance is not touched in the aya nor in the subsequent ones. And it is only partially about finances, it is about finances in so far as it makes incumbent on males to support and stand by women, inheritors or not or to be inherited or not. It is general rule. aTa3 is not necessarily obey, but its range of meanin is wider, it may mepan pay atention, take into acount, or pay heed. Since no order os given no obedience or lack of it can ensue, but rather pay heed.

Pay lso heed to 4.128 as to what nushuz means or does not mean.

Pay also heed to the addresee of 4.34. It is the believers sin general are they being instrcted, women included to disinherit their womenfolk. That way of putting it is very strange compared to other expressions used to speak about inheritance and legacies.

Salaam

Noon_waalqalami

Please allocate according to your logic.

8,333.33 1/6 mother
8,333.33 1/6 father
12,500.00 1/4 husband
20,833.33 5/12 remainder to son

50,000.00 total (brother = 0; not kalala case)

Now your turn which you avoided answering half dozen times...

are solitary son and/or dual children excluded in the verses posted Yes/No?

Illogical to say

Another can suckle "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!
Never benefit you "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!

411 yskumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) relatives yours and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...

That's easy one and you are behind; please distribute requested of you twice earlier...

Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.

Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?

mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sisters

mother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sisters

Mazhar

Dear Noon,

The point that you are not comprehending about use of broken plurals and plural nouns and pronouns as to when they can refer to a single unit of individuals denoted by those nouns/pronouns; let me try by using your calculations methodolgy.

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;
Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/

Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.

Outstanding liability is of dead woman. It is not amount of wealth she left.
Please quote sentence of ayah while giving shares.

Noon_waalqalami

Outstanding liability is of dead woman. It is not amount of wealth she left.
Please quote sentence of ayah while giving shares.

OK now we understand you don't answer questions posted to you instead flood topic with perpetual questions including how to distribute liability NOT wealth in a thread on distributing inheritance?

?He captured ten of the Gymnosophists i.e. "naked philosophers" who had done most to get Sabbas to revolt, and had made the most trouble for the Macedonians. These philosophers were reputed to be clever and concise in answering questions, and Alexander therefore put difficult questions to them, declaring that he would put to death him who first made an incorrect answer.? There being ten gymnosophists, each was asked one question. Which, the fifth one was asked, is older, day or night. ?Day, by one day?, came back the answer; ?upon the king expressing amazement?, Plutarch writes, the sadhu added ?hard questions must have hard answers."

Likewise to quote my differential equations professor

?If one never asks dumb questions they?ll never get over being dumb!?

No more comments!

Peace and goodbye!

Mazhar

Dear Noon.

I am feelingb now you have clearly realized the erroneousness of your thread. You know it is not from Qur'aan but from your own imagintion. You allocate whatever you want to allocate and make it one.

All cases are covered in just six combinations and I mentioned it in a post.

My last question you are avoiding.

Answer that as you have been answering by writing the sentence of the Ayah.

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;
Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/

Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.

Outstanding liability is of dead woman. It is not amount of wealth she left.
Please quote sentence of ayah while giving shares.

Noon_waalqalami

Dear Noon.

I am feelingb now you have clearly realized the erroneousness of your thread. You know it is not from Qur'aan but from your own imagintion. You allocate whatever you want to allocate and make it one.

All cases are covered in just six combinations and I mentioned it in a post.

My last question you are avoiding.

Answer that as you have been answering by writing the sentence of the Ayah.

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;
Outstanding liability to a bank of $ 50,000/

Please distribute it by referring to specific provision given in Qur'aan.

Outstanding liability is of dead woman. It is not amount of wealth she left.
Please quote sentence of ayah while giving shares.

Dear Mazhar, you're wired different "missing" basic logic functions evident by above absurd question missing basic information.

Wealth = Assets - Liabilities

If you have information want to contribute since people all over the world may read this forum/thread then be honest answer questions posted to you with verse numbers and likewise answer your own examples to support your opinion not act like a pompous intellectual who diverts, avoids, posting perpetual questions as numerologists, missionary trolls, and hearsay followers that frequent this forum.

Quote from Mazhar on Yesterday at 025131 AM
It is plural and is NOMINATIVE. It is the subject noun of deficient perfect verb "Kana", and is about its fronted predicate. It means "However, if brothers and sisters of the deceased also existed, thereby, the One Sixth shall be the share apportioned for his Mother."

Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.

Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?

mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sisters

mother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sisters

No answer from Mazhar!

Where you get exactly two daughters get 2/3?

411 ? fawqa/above two (f) so for them (f/p) third dual (2/3)

fawqa/above/greater than > two cannot be equal and above => two!

618 ... fawqa/above servants his NOT equal and above => servants his!

No answer from Mazhar!

Now please answer questions without perpetual questions, did you not write this?

Which I asked you to allocate assets tell which verses you are applying?

No answer from Mazhar!

Dear Mazhar -- can you please clearly answer yes or no?
Does above exclude solitary son and dual children according to you?

No answer from Mazhar!

Dear Mazhar,

Why contradict yourself avoid simple Yes/No questions? It's OK to say you erred and changed your mind.
...
You also wrote this
http//corpus.quran.com/wordimage?id=9829

Please use common sense answer Yes/No -- can a solitary son and dual children be excluded in verses below?

No answer from Mazhar!

Mazhar,

We'll keep it simple address is to parents concerning their children...

Now your turn for the Nth time -- does above exclude a solitary son and dual children, Yes/No?

No answer from Mazhar!

Mazhar, you are confusing yourself with English grammar ignoring simple logic refuse to answer simple question -- are solitary son and/or dual children excluded in the verses posted Yes/No?

Illogical to say

Another can suckle "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!
Never benefit you "your children" solitary son/dual children excluded!

411 yskumu/instructs you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

2233 .... and if aradttum/want you (2nd person masculine plural verb) that another breastfeed they of awldakum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun)

603 never tanfaakum/benefit you (2nd person masculine plural object pronoun) relatives yours and not awldukum/offspring yours (2nd person masculine plural possessive pronoun) day the resurrection ...

That's easy one and you are behind; please distribute requested of you twice earlier...

Dear Mazhar, since you posted above and understand legal parlance.

Allocate assets tell which verses you're applying; takes few minutes?

mother 1 sister
mother 2 sisters
mother 3 sisters

mother 1 brother 1 sister
mother 1 brother 2 sisters
mother 1 brother 3 sisters

No answer from Mazhar!

Now your turn which you avoided answering half dozen times...

No answer from Mazhar!

Peace!

Mazhar

Dear Mazhar, you're wired different "missing" basic logic functions evident by above absurd question missing basic information.

Wealth = Assets - Liabilities

Good answer and is according to

And what is the implication of other part of the phrases of dependent clause?

Now kindly distribute the wealth of the lady

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind quoting relevant part of the Ayah under the authority of which you give away wealth to surviving relatives.

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;

Noon_waalqalami

The Qur'anic Term Kalala
Studies in Arabic Language and Poetry, Hadit, Tafsir, and Fiqh Notes on the Origins of Islamic Law
Edition 1
Author Agostino Cilardo

http//ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51N%2BX6tg1uL.jpg

http//www.amazon.com/The-Quranic-Term-Kalala-Monograph/dp/074861916X

David S. Powers ?BNF 328a and the Mystery of al-Kalala?
http//rorotoko.com/interview/20090904_powers_david_muhammad_not_father_any_your_men_making_last_prophet/?page=2

http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(41254)
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(41766)

The best approach is to take the non-contradicting meaning to extrapolate definition...

...

411
instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (feminine)

so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two (f/d) so for them (f/p i.e. 3+) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

and if knat/be she (f/s) widatan/one (f/s) so for her al-ni'fu/the half

wali-abawayhi/and to parents dual said person to each one from them dual the sixth from what left if kna/be (m/s) for said person waladun/offspring (son) so if not yakun that be for said person waladun/offspring (child) wawarithahu/and bestows to inherit said person parents dual said person so to mother said person the third so if kna/be (s/m) for said person ikh'watun/brother so to mother said person the sixth from after will instructs in it or judgment

fathers yours and sons yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412
and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not yakun that be for them waladun/offspring (child) so if kna/be (m/s) for them waladun/offspring (son) so for you the fourth from what left they from after will made they in it or judgment

and for them the fourth from what left you if not yakun that be for you waladun/offspring (child) so if kna/be (s/m) for you waladun/offspring (son) so to them the eight from what left you from after will thou making in it or judgment

and if kna/be (m/s) rajulun/man yrathu/he bestows to inherit kalalatan (spouse-less without daughter) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or sister so to each one from them dual the sixth so if kn/be they of (2+) more from such so they partners in the third from after will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176
they seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in al-kalalati (the spouseless without daughter) if im'ru-on/person perished not for him waladun/offspring (child) and for him sister so for her half what left and he yarithuh/he inheritor hers if not yakun that be for her waladun/offspring (child)

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. daughters) so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) from what left

and if kn /be they of (2+) ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (feminine)

shows the god for you lest/that stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

http//oi60.tinypic.com/4g2lbb.jpg

Mazhar

Good answer and is according to

And what is the implication of other part of the phrases of dependent clause?

Now kindly distribute the wealth of the lady

A rich middle aged woman who was a bussiness-person died leaving behind quoting relevant part of the Ayah under the authority of which you give away wealth to surviving relatives.

Father and mother;
Son;
Husband;
Brother;

Noon please I could not find in your long chart the above situation. Please allocate them the share by quoting the Ayah.

Noon_waalqalami

Noon please I could not find in your long chart the above situation. Please allocate them the share by quoting the Ayah.

411... and to parents dual said person to each one from them dual the sixth from what left if be (m/s) for said person offspring... from after will instructs in it or judgment

1/6 mother
1/6 father

412... so if be (m/s) for them offspring so for you the fourth from what left they from after will made they in it or judgment

1/4 husband
5/12 remainder to son (brother gets nothing not kalala case)

http//oi62.tinypic.com/kbvofm.jpg

Now why you afraid to answer questions, do we guess?

perhaps you are too proud?
perhaps you've not studied?
perhaps logic/comprehension?
perhaps you're being monitored?

If you have information want to contribute since people all over the world may read this forum/thread then be honest answer questions posted to you with verse numbers and likewise answer your own examples to support your opinion not act like a pompous intellectual who diverts, avoids, posting perpetual questions as numerologists, missionary trolls, and hearsay followers that frequent this forum.

No answer from Mazhar!

Mazhar

411... and to parents dual said person to each one from them dual the sixth from what left if be (m/s) for said person offspring... from after will instructs in it or judgment

1/6 mother
1/6 father

412... so if be (m/s) for them offspring so for you the fourth from what left they from after will made they in it or judgment

1/4 husband
5/12 remainder to son (brother gets nothing not kalala case)

http//oi62.tinypic.com/kbvofm.jpg

Now why you afraid to answer questions, do we guess?

perhaps you are too proud?
perhaps you've not studied?
perhaps logic/comprehension?
perhaps you're being monitored?

Dear Noon,

You seem to have overlooked that I mentioned a middle aged woman is the deceased. Pronoun in Prepositional Phrase + Possessive Phrase is for third person, singular, masculine specifically referring to the known male. The phrases literally mean "for the parents of him"

I hope you know about discourse cohesion. One type of cohesion associated with grammatical and lexical elements is reference cohesionwhen elements express referential identities via anaphora such as a pronoun.

The sentence that you have quoted is NOT about a deceased woman. It is about a certain male.

Noon_waalqalami

Dear Noon,

You seem to have overlooked that I mentioned a middle aged woman is the deceased. Pronoun in Prepositional Phrase + Possessive Phrase is for third person, singular, masculine specifically referring to the known male. The phrases literally mean "for the parents of him"

I hope you know about discourse cohesion. One type of cohesion associated with grammatical and lexical elements is reference cohesionwhen elements express referential identities via anaphora such as a pronoun.

The sentence that you have quoted is NOT about a deceased woman. It is about a certain male.

Dear Mazhar,

As already stated you are wired "different" using English grammar rules applying to Qur'an.

Do you translate below as "for him" applicable to only males instead of "for said person"?

1333 ... and whom lets astray the god so not for said person from guide

Likewise you wrote below and CANNOT translate as "and to him" applicable to only males...

Both the red nouns are the subject noun for deficient verb by conjunction through "aau". Either man or a woman can be

A man can die in the state that he was all by himself ; and so can a woman die in such state.

412 ...
and if be rajulun/man he bestows to inherit kalalatan or im'ra-atun/woman
and to said person brother or sister so to each one from them dual the sixth

Likewise you erroneously translated below CANNOT be applicable if "son or dual children"?

411 instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours
603 never benefit you relatives yours and not awldukum/offspring yours

Mazhar

Dear Noon,

It is the most basic information about Arabic language that a singular masculine pronoun refers only a male-Man; it does not refer to a female-woman. Pronouns are explicit discourse connectives.

As already stated you are wired "different" using English grammar rules applying to Qur'an.

What I said was not about English grammar rules. Please read again, it is about every text including Arabic of Qur'aan.

Noon_waalqalami

Dear Noon,

It is the most basic information about Arabic language that a singular masculine pronoun refers only a male-Man; it does not refer to a female-woman. Pronouns are explicit discourse connectives.

What I said was not about English grammar rules. Please read again, it is about every text including Arabic of Qur'aan.

Dear Mazhar, perhaps you'll understand the issue; please distribute according to Qur'an, post exact verses?

Man leaves 2 daughters, parents, wife

Woman leaves 2 daughters, parents, husband

Mazhar

Dear Mazhar, perhaps you'll understand the issue; please distribute according to Qur'an, post exact verses?

Man leaves 2 daughters, parents, wife

Woman leaves 2 daughters, parents, husband

Reply 455 gave covering all ground situations
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.450

It is the case of death of a parent who had two daughters.

In both cases Allah the Exalted has apportioned for two daughters only which is two-thirds of divisible wealth.
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/004.%20An%20Nisa/4.11n.gif
Thereby, instead of a male co-sharer, if other progenies were three or more women as partners/ co-sharers over/in addition to two females referred to above; thereat, two-thirds of the wealth which the deceased parent has left shall remain the apportionment for them all, irrespective of presence of two female sharers or additional sharers.

" " This sentence begins with a conjunction particle " " which is distinct from conjunction particle ""; Particle " " illustrates a sequence, cause and effect relationship; a linkage with apodosis clause; and can link a subsequent clause with the preceding sentence to indicate a situation-reality-predication partly different to-instead of the earlier one. Particle "" will not connect such linkage.

One-third will go to other- parents/spouse as per the wish of testater. If died a sudden death, family/court will decide if any near one disputes division of remaining 1/3rd wealth. The deceased was required to bequeath orally in favour of parents and nearest relative,

Noon_waalqalami

It is the case of death of a parent who had two daughters.

... if other progenies were three or more women as partners/ co-sharers over/in addition to two females referred to above; thereat, two-thirds of the wealth ...

Dear Mazhar,

411 ? fawqa/above two (f) so for them (f/p) third dual (2/3)

fawqa/above or greater than two CANNOT be equal or in addition to two!

618 ... fawqa/above servants his

CANNOT be equal or in addition to servants his!

Lane, An Arabic English Lexicon
? thus one says, (Mgh, Msb) i. e. Ten is above nine; meaning ten exceeds nine
... also, in the Kur iii. 12], (Mgh, Msb) exceeding two

One-third will go to other- parents/spouse as per the wish of testater. If died a sudden death, family/court will decide if any near one disputes division of remaining 1/3rd wealth. The deceased was required to bequeath orally in favour of parents and nearest relative,

Where you get these absurd ideas, TV shows like Judge Judy or The People's Hadith Court?

Mazhar, simple advice same as to numerologists, stay away from things requiring basic logic.

Peace!

Mazhar

(Mgh, Msb) exceeding two

Dear Noon,

You see only words, develop habit of looking simultaneously about grammer. He has put comma, before exceeding two.

Lane has used the transitive verb which means be greater than something to be greater than something in quantity, degree, or scope.

But you have not seen this
is the contr. of ; (S, Mgh, O, Msb, K and is an adv. n

Can you assign some role/function to this phrase in the sentence?

This is adverbial phrase. You need to read the function of adverbial phrases in a sentence to comprehend what is communicated therein.

In Arabic it is ridiculous to say "women more than two" when noun Nisaa is used which itself means women who are three or more in number.

Spare a little time to kindly revisit English grammar book which would suffice for understanding the Arabic text by seeing the case endings of nouns which give their function in the sentence.

Mazhar

Let me make things simpler for you.

You say that 2/3rd will be given only if there are women over two; and not when they are only two. If it is true this will suffice

If they were three or four women then------

What is the point then to insert adverbial phrase in between? What purpose it would serve except redundancy?