Inheritance according to Qur?an
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Peace Recluse.
May be according to your understanding ,you may say this
The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think
According to my understanding, it is you who is not honest with GOD s words. Qoran never implies what you say. GOD is fair and just.
Those who take words /verses out of context are telling lies about GOD, and you are not checking properly.
Be fair to Qoran and study it with honesty and sincerity . Do not take what others say about it as truth!!!GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think
Peace
You do need the Qur'an to be awful and you do need that somebody in your place (eg. the Qur'an) bashes women so that you can come up as a redeemr of them.
You seem to me one more run of the mill Qur'an and women hater that attempts to play the Qur'an against women and the women against the Qur'an and to present himself as a redeemer of women in the face of the horrible, tyranical Qur'an.
That is your problem, not the problem of the Qur'an and you parade too much your lack of knowledge of it. the only arguments you seem to be able to use are to repeat ad nauseam that the Qur'an does this and does that. Your word. In that you are exactly like the Muslim bigots, who have their males club and do not want anybody to shake their little arrangment.
If you were sincere, you would be very, very happy to know or to realise that the Qur'an indeed is not like the sick figment you are made to believe. But not only you are not happy with that, you get angry and fight with feet and claws in order to impose that the Qur'an is evil. You prefer an evil Qur'an rather than a sincere and upright Qur'an and you fight so that people do not find any good in the Qur'an.
As far as I am concerned if what you want is what you seem to want you are miserably failing The Qur'an is good, it is up to date and up to sincere peoples hearts and all your venom does not make a dent in its truthfulness. and its pull on upright people.
Salaam
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Peace Recluse.
May be according to your understanding ,you may say this
The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think
According to my understanding, it is you who is not honest with GOD s words. Qoran never implies what you say. GOD is fair and just.
Those who take words /verses out of context are telling lies about GOD, and you are not checking properly.
Be fair to Qoran and study it with honesty and sincerity . Do not take what others say about it as truth!!!GOD bless you.
Peace.There is a lot of clinging at straws dressing them up as sequoias in order to defame the Qur'an and in that, not surprisingly, the apparent extremes go hand in hand.
Salaam, good logic.
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Women aren't mere possessions of men, off topic spamming thread.
I disagree -- Saudis are most ignorant and clueless about the book.
It is straight forward women are not disadvantaged on inheritance.411 instructs you the god in offspring yours to the male (i.e. gender) similitude apportion the two (females)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each); 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each); 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)so if be/are (feminine pl.) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above two so for them third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each); 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each); 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)2/3 four daughters (1/6 each); 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each); 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)and if knat/be she one so for her the half
1/2 daughter; 1/2 son
1/2 daughter; 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter; 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person offspring and for said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her offspring
1/2 sister; 1/2 brother
1/2 sister; 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each)
1/2 sister; 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each)so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (females) so to them dual the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) from what left
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each); 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each); 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each); 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (females)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each); 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each); 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each); 2/5 four brothers (1/10 each)2/3 four sisters (1/6 each); 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each); 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each); 1/3 four brothers (1/12 each)shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower
See complete summary...
Peace
Indeed this seems like some spaming of the thread, sorry for my part, I hope it stops without going further.
Salaam
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You do need the Qur'an to be awful and you do need that somebody in your place (eg. the Qur'an) bashes women so that you can come up as a redeemr of them.
You seem to me one more run of the mill Qur'an and women hater that attempts to play the Qur'an against women and the women against the Qur'an and to present himself as a redeemer of women in the face of the horrible, tyranical Qur'an.
That is your problem, not the problem of the Qur'an and you parade too much your lack of knowledge of it. the only arguments you seem to be able to use are to repeat ad nauseam that the Qur'an does this and does that. Your word. In that you are exactly like the Muslim bigots, who have their males club and do not want anybody to shake their little arrangment.
If you were sincere, you would be very, very happy to know or to realise that the Qur'an indeed is not like the sick figment you are made to believe. But not only you are not happy with that, you get angry and fight with feet and claws in order to impose that the Qur'an is evil. You prefer an evil Qur'an rather than a sincere and upright Qur'an and you fight so that people do not find any good in the Qur'an.
As far as I am concerned if what you want is what you seem to want you are miserably failing The Qur'an is good, it is up to date and up to sincere peoples hearts and all your venom does not make a dent in its truthfulness. and its pull on upright people.
Salaam
)
I'm left speechless by this overly emotional and completely nonsensical rant...
I can absolutely guarantee, and I'm certain that my Creator knows it too, that I'm more sincere and truthful than you are. Sincerity and truth most certainly does not seem to be among your priorities in life... as any objective person on this forum can clearly observe....
And no, the Qur'an is not what you think it is; it's not universal and it is far from "perfect"...
That is your emotion, your blind faith that is speaking...
It has no connection to truth, but if thinking that truly makes you feel better, or makes you believe that it will grant you eternal Heaven, then continue to think like that... it doesn't harm me.. although I definitely wouldn't want to live in a country that is ruled by people with your medieval Arab mindset..
Salaam to you to.
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Huruf,
I think you are confusing me with someone else who has written to you or you gravely misinterpreted what I have made written. And you seem to have missed a truckload of posts I have made in the forum. I am probably one of the most gender neutral in the whole forum, in fact I argue that the Nafs is genderless but one is female or male in the flesh.
In addition you seem to have ignored everything I wrote in the post you attacked as it goes straight against what the sectarian interpretation of Quran says, i.e. an even distribution of inheritance to daughters, also with argument that it is no excuse to say the daughters do not have families to provide for as they also have husbands. And a son could be without wife and the daughter with her husband could need provisions much more than the son.
You also missed that I wrote man and woman is as one body. Obviously this implies a distribution of 50% - 50% within the soul bonding. If the woman is the man and the man is the woman then none of the sexes have a lower value.
Following that reasoning, there is absolutely no reason to distribute less inheritance to the daughters.
If a daughter is single and lives alone she requires just as much money to her living as the son, meaning there is no reason to distribute her with less inheritance due to her physical sex.
So no matter if the woman has a husband or not she will inherit just as much as a man, because if she is bonded she is both man and woman in her husband. No reason either way to deprive her of inheritance.
And inheritance is easy, one shares inheritance within the family branch, so a mother and father do leave behind their things for the children to inherit just as they provided for the children will their children provide for the next generation of children.
And your siblings have no reason to eat up your legacy unless you liked it to be so.
Be well
Amenuel -
Peace Recluse.
May be according to your understanding ,you may say this
The Qur'an is most definitely treating females like objects of men... they are to always "obey" their husbands, they can even be beaten, they get less inheritance than men, they are not equal witnesses in court and so on and so forth. Come on Huruf, be honest with yourself. I'm sure God loves honesty, don't you think
According to my understanding, it is you who is not honest with GOD s words. Qoran never implies what you say. GOD is fair and just.
Those who take words /verses out of context are telling lies about GOD, and you are not checking properly.
Be fair to Qoran and study it with honesty and sincerity . Do not take what others say about it as truth!!!GOD bless you.
Peace.Peace good logic,
The Qur'an definitely says all those things I mentioned, all the 'ulema' and 'fukaha' throughout the entire history of Islam have agreed - including the prophet's closest companions!! They were the receivers of those messages, not you or anyone else here on free-minds.org... So you think the prophet, his closest companions and all the "ulema" and "fukaha"and all the schools of thought knew absolutely nothing and were just making things up for 1400 years until recently? Or were they all liars, every single 'alim' in the entire history of Islam was an impostor?
Only recently have some "modernists" come into the picture trying to make the Qur'an more "palatable" for people in the 21st century. With good intentions obviously, but flawed logic... it's extremely hard for people to accept the "horrible truth" that the Qur'an was directly addressing the Arabs in Arabia 1400 years ago and their own unique problems... that's why it's impossible to take the Qur'an literally or treat it as a book of law for eternity...
Peace.
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Man o Faith
I don't have ay questionwith what you yourself say and you say it, but that was not he matter of may post ad you are igoring my pos. Say whateve ryou want I have n quarrel with it, but you said that The Qur'an favours males over females, I do not care what you favour but if you say that the Qur'an favors males over females that is what I question and I say that you are worng and yu have not deied that you have said that.
That is the question, so not about what you say I have spoken but about what you say the qur'an says, which is false.
Salaam
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The Qur'an most definitely says all those things I mentioned, all the "ulema" throughout the entire history of Islam have agreed - including the prophet's closest companions !! They were the receivers of those messages, not you or anyone else on free-minds.org. Only recently have some "modernists" come into the picture trying to make the Qur'an more "palatable" for people in the 21st century. With very good intentions of course, but flawed logic... it's extremely hard for most people to accept the "horrible truth" that the Qur'an was addressing the Arabs in Arabia 1400 years ago...
Peace.
Eitheryou lie formidably or you are foridaly ignorant. I suppose it is the second and that your imagination takes you to the sar. You mut know all the ulemas as well as you know first hand the hundreds of illions of muslims for whom you vouched in other messages.
Salaam
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Peace Recluse.
The flawed logic is to blame Qoran.
No matter, leave it alone and move on., if it is so bad.
Why waste your time being angry and bitter about what others do with it?Personally I think you confuse "true Islam" with "Traditional Islam",but that is my opinion.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Bingo
And the simple reason for that is because the Qur'an is mostly addressing the Arabs of 1400 years ago, it's not addressing any of us here. None of those Qur'anic "laws" have any relation to our own reality in the here and now, but this is extremely hard to accept for those who worship the book and equate that book with God (or God's might) Himself. They think the Qur'an is on the same level as God's knowledge when it's just a book confined by time and space, a certain culture (Arab), history and socio-economic situation. To fundamentalists accepting this simple reality would be equal to disbelief in God Himself (because God = Qur'an = Perfect) and enough to deserve eternal Hellfire. I used to think like that too, but when I learned about alternative views (initially by some Turkish Islamic scholars), I understood that I had been duped and indoctrinated from childhood.
As the Qur'an says;
"Those who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight"
Peace,
?zcanHi,
RED Why are you quoting 3918? It has nothing to do with you or me, it's for Arabs of 1400 years ago.
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Hi,
RED Why are you quoting 3918? It has nothing to do with you or me, it's for Arabs of 1400 years ago.
Hi,
Because regardless of who said it (God Himself or a person), my conscience tells me that it is true.. )
This verse can and in my opinion should be universally applied... but if you were to apply the verses about male or female slaves, you would commit grave injustice.. or the verse that says wives must obey their husbands... those must be categorically rejected. And by rejecting those, we are not rejecting God... The Qur'an is not equal to God or to God's knowledge.
There are many other verses in the Qur'an that I like to quote and take lessons from.
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Peace Recluse.
The flawed logic is to blame Qoran.
No matter, leave it alone and move on., if it is so bad.
Why waste your time being angry and bitter about what others do with it?Personally I think you confuse "true Islam" with "Traditional Islam",but that is my opinion.
GOD bless you.
Peace.I'm not bitter or angry, I only get irritated sometimes when someone attacks my character instead of dealing with the topic being discussed. It really doesn't matter at all if nobody agreed with me on anything..
Peace and God bless you too..
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Hi,
Because regardless of who said it (God Himself or a person), my conscience tells me that it is true..
This verse can and in my opinion should be universally applied... but if you were to apply the verses about male or female slaves,you would commit grave injustice.. or the verse that says wives must obey their husbands... those must be categorically rejected. And by rejecting those, we are not rejecting God... The Qur'an is not equal to God or to God's knowledge.
There are many other verses in the Qur'an that I like to quote and take lessons from.
RED If we apply YOUR understanding of those verses then for sure we have to reject them.
just curious, what is the word for "slave" in the quran? -
Peace Recluse.
Please take my posts as general comments.
No other intention except to give my view amicably.Thank you and GOD bless you
Peace. -
RED If we apply YOUR understanding of those verses then for sure we have to reject them.
just curious, what is the word for "slave" in the quran?Peace Bender,
There are verses about being able to have sexual relations with "those whom our right hands possess".
History shows this was common practice 1400 years ago when the Qur'an was revealed...
Or do you think the Qur'an was revealed to the people of Norway in 2016?
But there are no "slaves" in Norway. The Norwegians must be thinking; why is the Qur'an talking about slaves? What slaves, where ? And "Those whom your right hand possess", what on earth is that rotfl
Anyway, why should I apply your understanding and not the established and historical understanding of the "entire ummah" for 1400 years ?
Were ALL Islamic thinkers, Islamic scholars, Arabic language specialists, ulema, fukaha, madhabs / schools of thought and others throughout history complete morons ??? You know better than ALL of them? Or were ALL OF THEM devious/evil people who were enemies of the Qur'an?
I know your CONSCIENCE is telling you that what the Qur'an says is immoral so it MUST be saying something else... that's good because unlike most Sunnis and Shias you have a conscience. You are not inhumane. But is it honesty to always change the meanings of the Qur'an as you please? To subject the Qur'an to endless interpretations? I thought the Qur'an was easy to understand? Who has the authority to decide the "real" meanings? And if there is no consensus, how can we follow any of it? brickwall
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Huruf,
What about the passage that noon wa alqalami constantly floods the thread with then? This is the sectarian interpretation of Quran and I do not argue that the real interpretation of Quran argues that.
You are hostile towards me for no real reason.
You have not even understood my stance since you claim I argue that Quran favors men over women which is wrong by you. Chill out a bit and like me a bit more instead. You have no right to dislike me since I have not hurt you. Relax.
Quran does NOT favor men over women, only a flawed sectarian interpreted one does. Please keep apart when I say "in the sectarian interpretation" because that marks the most commonly accepted understanding which is not correct. I thought it is clear that I do not argue such thing about Quran and I cannot remember that I ever argued that Quran says for real that it favors men over women but I always wrote "sectarian interpretation".
Be well
Amenuel -
Apart from you and me, huruf, the majority of those who call themselves Muslim actually find authority in that sectarian interpretation where men are over women and inheritance is like noonwaalqalami prints out and obviously my mission is to unbalance that unquestionable faith they have in that interpretation and not leave Quran altogether. From time to time I also come with reports on the progress of my research by delving into the rightful interpretation of Quran too.
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Have you read atetively Noon's posts,because he has changed his views sevral times nd I don't think he has closed the question, and that is why there is his thread pinned in order to contribute to it, so I do not think he is attached to any male favouring, except whatever is left always in anybody from too long ingrained absorbed "inital facts".
Myself I amnot sure that I understand always the way he sets his ideas in printing.But what noon says is neither here nor there because that is not the question concerning what you wrote. You yourslf wrote a if you thought the female hostile interppretation of usual juriprudence was right in its interpretation of the Qur'a. So the question is whether you say that the Qur'an favour males over females regarding inheritance.
Salaam