I renounced my faith in the divinity of the Qur'an today
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God does say in the Koran (can't think of the verses) that there are those who will come to believe and then turn to disbelief like faithful-jinn.
Bigmo - let people denounce or announce. reading such posts may actually lead some to see and understand the Koran. it is one thing to read a verse in the koran and then it is another to actually witness. for me, it validates what God says as i read this thread about people believing and disbelieving.
Correct. God does say that. Despite the Qur'an also establishing that God is in control of who believes and disbelieves and guides only whom He wills in the verses I cited earlier. I cannot go against the will of Allah according to the Qur'an yet Allah will punish every single human being whom He Himself has decreed should not believe in Him.
Nobody believes in Allah except by His will (10100). We are either destined for hell or destined for heaven and God is in control of this for it is all written in a book with Him. So if you believe it's only because Allah MADE you believe and if you disbelieve it is because Allah MADE you disbelieve yet one gets infinite reward and another gets infinite punishment.
Does that make any sense?
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Despite how much I want to believe that the Qur'an and Islam are true, I must be honest with myself.
Why do you want to believe in labels that are inherently untrue? There is no such meaningless things as Qur'an and Islam to begin with. Maybe when you learn their simple common meaning and you are able to do the simple task of translating them then you can be really honest with yourself.
Peace,
Ayman
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Why do you want to believe in labels that are inherently untrue? There is no such meaningless things as Qur'an and Islam to begin with. Maybe when you learn their simple common meaning and you are able to do the simple task of translating them then you can be really honest with yourself.
Peace,
Ayman
More appeals to translation. I know the concept of Islam. All things animate and inanimate from the clouds to the animal kingdom to mankind submits to the Creator, willingly or unwillingly.
That's just a nice idea though. In reality there is nothing to submit to because the basis for this idea is that the Qur'an tells me this and the only reason to listen to the Qur'an is its claim to be the direct word of God.
Once it is understood though that the Qur'an is not in fact the word of God, then I have no reason to believe in submission or pleasing some external universal force that reads my thoughts, feels my emotions, listens to me and watches me 24/7 so He can judge me when I die.
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Peace Faithful-Jinn.
What are you trying to run away from? And where are you escaping to?
Wishful thinking. Will your problems be solved?
My last reply to " nevasheva" in the topic " Was Rashad Khalifa wrong" also applies here.
Please reflect.
Peace. -
Peace Faithful-Jinn.
What are you trying to run away from? And where are you escaping to?
Wishful thinking. Will your problems be solved?
My last reply to " nevasheva" in the topic " Was Rashad Khalifa wrong" also applies here.
Please reflect.
Peace.Your post doesn't really say much of anything about anything to be honest but I'll respond to your sentences with question marks.
I'm running from nothing and I'm not escaping to anything.
What problems?
I'm not searching the other topic for your statements just post them here.
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Faithfull Jin, I understand your difficulty with understanding what it does it mean to have your fate sealed, but still be condemned to it....I am trying to understand the philosophy of that as well....
But....I still have this feeling...that God is talking and knows how we react kinda thing...I don't know what I am trying to say...I mean...I think an ingredient of submitting to God...is to understand that if God wants to reject your hard work, it should be still acceptable to you...because he is your creator your master...according to the Qur'an, and I think this theme is in the bible too, depending on which testament, or who you are talking to I guess....is that God's mercy is the main element that we are depending on. So he is saying that and he knows that if you are not willing to accept that then you are not a submitter. You think you can tell God what to do.
And honestly I think God is the entity that can do whatever he pleases, so I don't get the 'that doesn't sound like a just and merciful God' argument.
However the idea of that fate is sealed, I can't really see that in the Qur'an yet but it is out there, but I am having difficulty understanding on what am I supposed to be doing with that idea...if I am meant to be a doctor, and its already written, it doesn't matter what I do...I can just sit home and say...what God wills will happen and play videogames, I do not need to do anything kinda thing...that is another problem I had with R.K his whole session about how everything is in God's controll, it won't happen because you will/do anything....I am not sure...what...is the full scope on that yet my self.
because I don't believe that justice or mercy, is something that humans can define easily. Justice might be no you don't deserve that liver, cause you drank alcohol and ruined it, you don't deserve it, but that's not how people would like medicine to be, they'd prefer that medicine treats you no matter what wrongs you do by your own choice. They'd say who do you think you are to tell me what I deserve, and what I do not. What is your problem if you have the cure to my problem, thats what its for. Why do you want to see me suffer!.
Morality is subjective in my world...I don't believe in humans abilities in deciding the perfect moral system...in fact religion calls to things that are....selfless....which...doesn't make sense...if we want to use logic for morality....Starting with something as hated as murder, it makes sense if I am worried about someone competing with me, or harming me...to just dispose of him....or oppress them...or make them think I am God. Which is not what Islam had...it had the no one is your God...you do not answer to anyone but me God, who is not here so we are all in the same boat...so why would...this be a lie with a certain motive...?
However I understand your frustration with arabic as I am an arabic speaker my self, and official arabic is even hard for arabs themselves...so...I understand also the feeling of why is the Qur'an so complicated to access then...but first of all...even if you know the language...doesn't mean you will read the Qur'an...like what you read...or...bother to invest time to reflect on the meaning of it. I think the strive for God is (I THINK) is the most difficult of all knowledge....and that it is a collective of so many things....even dare I say aside from the Qur'an its self.
Also on the subject of why is God being ambiguous in the Qur'an....in the Qur'an...again it could be just me...i read a lot of verses about God stating that I won't succumb to the 'prove it do something Magnificent' because whenever I do, you still disbelief and find cracks...which is...a habit I can see in my self even. Old habits die hard kinda thing, even health wise (sorry I have a medicine education), doctors, anyone who knows for a fact!!! that smoking causes cancer, doesn't stop him from smoking, from eating certain bad things. There is something about human nature that is very flawed, and the Qur'an speaks it out, rather than playing the 'humanism' is the best thing that is on earth.
I think Faithful-Jin you announced this, here...because you are frustrated your self about that decision, and maybe you want to be persuaded otherwise...to take your self out of your self, and hear why are you so wrong about it.
I can't say I can really help you with that....all I can say is....knowledge...is a very difficult thing to attain, regardless wither it is about God or not...so many people taint the truth...for as petty reasons as just not wanting to admit they don't know so they say something to fill their arrogance instead, to as vile of reasons as making money, and promoting power status. It is not the God element that is the problem..any department of knowledge has been abused and used in a bad way. Explosives were not invented to kill people kinda thing. I can only hope to God, that praying to not be misguided is what is enough to keep me on the right track...and not just following what the next person claims God says...
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Peace Faithful-Jinn.
Now, here is the important bit
Freedom of choice! You are responsible only for you! ( Once you reach the age of responsibility?) The decision to believe or disbelieve is yours! You cannot blame anyone else? Check and prove all things, or follow others ,or do not bother to do anything? Will anyone else be accountable for you?)659 With HIM ( GOD the creator!) are the keys of all secrets. None knows them except HE. HE knows everything on land and in sea. Not a leaf falls without HIS knowledge, nor is there a grain in the depths of the soil, nor is there anything wet or dry that is not recorded in a profound record.?
661 HE is supreme over HIS creatures, and HE appoints guards (Angels) to protect you. When the appointed time of death comes to any of you, Our messengers ( Angel of death) put him to death without delay.?
662 Then everyone ( Every single human!) is returned to GOD. Their rightful Lord and Master. Absolutely, HE is the ultimate Judge. HE is the most accurate Reckoner,?
669 The righteous( Submitters) are not responsible for those who reject, ( Total submission and loyalty to GOD?) but it may help to remind them;( About the greatness and power of GOD!) Perhaps they may be saved.?
6102 Such is GOD your Lord, ( HE wants total submission from all HIS creatures, to HIM ALONE!) there is no god except HE ( HE has no partners, no wife/girlfriend, no son, no daughter etc?HE is Unique, everything else is HIS creation!) the Creator of all things. You shall serve/worship ( And follow) HIM ALONE. ( Do not rely on anyone else) HE is in control of all things.? ( Yesterday, today , tomorrow and forever!)
6135 Say? O my people ( All you humans!) do your best ( in this life) and so will I. ( We all find out we can never manage without GOD s help) You will surely find out who the ultimate victors are. ( Those who totally submit!) The wicked will never succeed.?
7100 Does it ever occur to those who inherit the earth after previous generations ( Including you this generation!) that if We will, We can punish them for their sins and seal their hearts; Causing them to be deaf?? ( To GOD s message!)
7102 ( Past generations) We found most of them disregard their covenant; We found most of them wicked.?
7174 We thus explain the revelations ( To remind the humans!) to enable the people to redeem themselves.?
( Accept or do not accept? You will be responsible for your own decision?)
It is up to you?
Peace. -
This is pure foolishness. I was more a student of Sufi philosophy than any other school of thought. I've never once been a Sunni and have always outright rejected them.
I "experienced God" many times and on many different levels. So much so that if you would have asked me 2 months ago how real God was not only would I say that God is real, I would say he is in fact more real than me standing before you!
But I have to be reasonable and open in accepting that MAYBE I'm creating the experience of God in my mind and so I decided to take a step back from just my "feelings" and "experience" and be objective, logical, and reasonable in whether or not my beliefs were VALID.
If Islam is not the enemy of logic and reason, and it invites questioning then this type of experiment should not be a problem. But apparently it was a problem for me because I have not recovered from my doubt.
I didn't say you were either Sunni or Sufi. Rather, the approach of Sunni-ism has created a culture of crazy translations in order to try and melt the quran and hadeeth together. But the fallout from that means that anyone trying to read the quran now will have to wade through all the muck of prior misleaders. All of the supposed contradictions you cited arise from using these wacky interpretations. One must be sincere and studious to resolve it, patient too. As I said before, incomplete information with perfect logic always leads to a flawed conclusion. If you think that is foolishness let me be the fool. After all, we will see who's correct on the morrow.
Still the interesting thing is that your reasoning is that "MAYBE I'm creating the experience of God in my mind". I only really mentioned sufism as they take the approach of meditation first, then logic. But I myself am coming from a Zen point of view and the whole point is to totally shed the self so there is no "me" or "my mind" but purely mind. How you could create that which created you is something I do not understand. You accept that you had a birth, so why do you not question what caused this birth to arise? Your mind cannot create the experience of something that encompasses itself. Do you think that something can be born in a reality that which itself were born and will die? Somewhere along the line you must come to that which were never born and consequently never will die.
People feel the 'presence' of all sorts of things in themselves - Christ, Zeus, angels, demons, whatever. But these are phenomenal and limited objects within reality. Can anyone claim to deny the reality itself? Your mind can't create the experience of something 'eternal, abiding, still, empty' because that comes before the mind. As the saying goes, '"if you see the buddha, kill the buddha', destroy all appearances of God in your mind so you can see with clarity. Where we agree then, is that one's feelings, perceptions, beliefs about God do not matter. All that matters is the reality.
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God does say in the Koran (can't think of the verses) that there are those who will come to believe and then turn to disbelief like faithful-jinn.
Bigmo - let people denounce or announce. reading such posts may actually lead some to see and understand the Koran. it is one thing to read a verse in the koran and then it is another to actually witness. for me, it validates what God says as i read this thread about people believing and disbelieving.
Its not whether they believe or not, its what is their intention coming here and debating us. For what? We all know its a tough world out there and we all know that many things in life is confusing and God can never be fully understood not even by the prophets or angels. What is it they expect from us? They will go in circles. I have seen this before. You spend a lot of time answering their questions only to see them reject your interpretation. You see there are a million reasons to believe and a million reasons not to believe. Verses of the Quran are not relevant when it comes to issues regarding faith. If you believe you will agree with it if you don't you will not. Rather than tell us about their personal lives and why they lost faith, they want to go in circles about scriptures. People do not believe or not because of scriptures. How do you explain all this millions around the world who believe in scriptures. Its not that they are reading something different, Its things happening in their life. The Quran tells us those who do not believe whether yu warn them or not or present all the signs of the world they would not believe. So why bother? I just hate to see people waste their time. I had an experience here with one person who went in circles about slavery and the Quran. Desperately looking for oxygen. He did not want to take any interpretation that he thinks might defend the Quran and wanted anything to find to attack it. Some people hate those who have faith and wished they can lose it like they did. Because people who have faith go through the same challenges as others but the difference is they hanged in there while others threw the towel.Iit is that, and not scriptures, that determines a person's faith.
An honest person will tell you things about his personal life that made him lose faith, but that takes courage.
He says he lost his faith two days ago. Can u believe that? Two days and he is here debating? Most people would spend months going through emotions.
This is sincerity
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/1271874
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/787640
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/2349939
Its not about scriptures, its about your personal experiences in life that shapes your faith. But at least with the above crowd they are being honest and sincere. Not beating around the bush. Its a waste of time.
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291
292 calculate/figure the mankind that they?ll be left lest/that they say we believe and they not be testedExactly. My brother once told me as a kid and I was confused about life/God etc ...it's when it gets tough that it matters. Always stayed with me.
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Its not about scriptures, its about your personal experiences in life that shapes your faith. But at least with the above crowd they are being honest and sincere. Not beating around the bush. Its a waste of time.
in my case, my faith has been shaped by both - personal experiences and God's scriptures. i'd say many a times life experiences lead to losing faith but reading the Koran turned me around. i cannot imagine where or what shape i would be in if it were not for God's scriptures. each person is different. some have an emotional approach, some intellectual, some both or neither. God's scriptures helps me in understanding myself, others and the world that I live in. i'd say it has helped me be the person and where i am today.
faithful-jin is not alone in his thinking or questioning. i ask the same questions as he does. if not more and have posted them. only difference is that he has rejected the koran as word of God whereas i have not. what he says is right - it is not logical. it is not logical for me given my own personal experiences to believe in God or God's scriptures. if anything, i should be the first in rejecting instead of only growing firmer in my beliefs. very illogical indeed. putting personal experiences aside, when you apply reason and logic in reading the koran it really doesn't make sense. but yet, why will i not reject like faithful-jin has come to? is it because of divine intervention?
god is not making me believe in anything. nothing is preventing me from not believing. if anything i have many a reasons not to believe. so why do i believe? i suppose it is logical and illogical, rational and irrational at the same time. personally i prefer walking along the straight path. more and more, my soul is at peace. my mind is at rest. listening to God applying what i read in the Koran has only helped me to better cope with life, be a better person. not an angry, bitter, resentful, hateful person. such negativity only weighs me down. following the scriptures has made a positive difference in my life and others around me. enemies becoming friends. building bridges than walls. it is a good feeling. now, do i really need the Koran for that? no, i don't.
however once you have seen the Truth, there is no turning back for me. no point of return looking into my crystal ball so to speak.
besides well.....i sure don't want to take any chances as no one has died and come back to tell me that the Koran is or is not a word of God. no harm in believing. it is one thing and good thing to question/wonder which you can do without rejecting. yeap, playing it safe! don't want to be looking stupid come judgment day. don't want to be a loser in this life or the next.
whatever faithful-jinn or others intentions may be, good to have discussions.
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Peace jusamuslim.
Your approach is more logical, even-though you think otherwise. You are trusting your instinct and comparing which is better.
You also mention no one has died and come back to tells us what is truth?
This is why I have no doubt in the divinity of "Qoran" . GOD tells us that we cannot evade death and we will not come back until judgement day
5677 to 5687
? This is an honourable book.? (Message)? A protected book.?
? None can grasp it except the Sincere!? ( Simple criteria of submission, no other Motives!)
? Are you disregarding this narration??
? Do you make it your business that you do not believe??
? When the time comes and ?it? ( Your last breath as you are dying!) reaches your throat.?
? You will then look around.?
? We are closer to it than you are, but you do not see.? ( The Angel of death!)
? If it is true that you do not owe any accounting.? ( That you are not returning to your creator for judgement!)
? Why do you not restore ( your life!) if you are truthful!?
So far no one has succeeded.Peace.
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He says he lost his faith two days ago. Can u believe that? Two days and he is here debating? Most people would spend months going through emotions.
This is sincerity
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/1271874
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/787640
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/2349939
Its not about scriptures, its about your personal experiences in life that shapes your faith. But at least with the above crowd they are being honest and sincere. Not beating around the bush. Its a waste of time.
Nice stories.. as they say... "There's merely a thin line between love and hate"..
Those who you hate usually are those who you used to love the most..
And vice versa..http//www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1081242/Brain-line-love-hate-scientists-reveal.html
Salam / Peace
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in my case, my faith has been shaped by both - personal experiences and God's scriptures. i'd say many a times life experiences lead to losing faith but reading the Koran turned me around. i cannot imagine where or what shape i would be in if it were not for God's scriptures. each person is different. some have an emotional approach, some intellectual, some both or neither. God's scriptures helps me in understanding myself, others and the world that I live in. i'd say it has helped me be the person and where i am today.
faithful-jin is not alone in his thinking or questioning. i ask the same questions as he does. if not more and have posted them. only difference is that he has rejected the koran as word of God whereas i have not. what he says is right - it is not logical. it is not logical for me given my own personal experiences to believe in God or God's scriptures. if anything, i should be the first in rejecting instead of only growing firmer in my beliefs. very illogical indeed. putting personal experiences aside, when you apply reason and logic in reading the koran it really doesn't make sense. but yet, why will i not reject like faithful-jin has come to? is it because of divine intervention?
god is not making me believe in anything. nothing is preventing me from not believing. if anything i have many a reasons not to believe. so why do i believe? i suppose it is logical and illogical, rational and irrational at the same time. personally i prefer walking along the straight path. more and more, my soul is at peace. my mind is at rest. listening to God applying what i read in the Koran has only helped me to better cope with life, be a better person. not an angry, bitter, resentful, hateful person. such negativity only weighs me down. following the scriptures has made a positive difference in my life and others around me. enemies becoming friends. building bridges than walls. it is a good feeling. now, do i really need the Koran for that? no, i don't.
however once you have seen the Truth, there is no turning back for me. no point of return looking into my crystal ball so to speak.
besides well.....i sure don't want to take any chances as no one has died and come back to tell me that the Koran is or is not a word of God. no harm in believing. it is one thing and good thing to question/wonder which you can do without rejecting. yeap, playing it safe! don't want to be looking stupid come judgment day. don't want to be a loser in this life or the next.
whatever faithful-jinn or others intentions may be, good to have discussions.
Well the Quran you say you believe in itself says its God who shapes our faith. Many believers died in the early days of the Muhamedan mission before most of the Quran was revealed. Others believed by certain signs that was given to Jesus or Moses and others. Faith is very complex. Scriptures are but one sign out of many. But I would appreciate it more if people would be honest about why they lost faith. Many people who say they lost faith are actually just angry with God or confused about Him. Arguing with them regarding the Quran is a waste of time. They will always try to look for some fault to justify their beliefs. I have gone through this. It is much better for a person who does not believe to hang around atheist forums where people share his beliefs and can relate to him. A Quranist forum is not designed for debates about faith. No forum really is because faith is not something we humans can control.
Remember what the Quran told the prophet
10.99-100. If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not
understand28.55-56 And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say "To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you we seek not the ignorant," It is true thou wilt not be able to guide whom thou lovest; but God guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.
"And when you see those who meddle with Our revelations, withdraw from them until they meddle with another topic. And if the devil causes you to forget, sit not, after the remembrance, with the congregation of wrongdoers. 668
I don't see the point in such debates since they go nowhere. I will never be able to convince them since they have no faith and neither will they be able to convince me. A person who lost faith has not much to lose but we on the other hand have faith and its the desire of the other party to make us lose that. What other motivation could there be?
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Nice stories.. as they say... "There's merely a thin line between love and hate"..
Those who you hate usually are those who you used to love the most..
And vice versa..http//www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1081242/Brain-line-love-hate-scientists-reveal.html
Salam / Peace
Good point.
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Nobody believes in Allah except by His will (10100). We are either destined for hell or destined for heaven and God is in control of this for it is all written in a book with Him. So if you believe it's only because Allah MADE you believe and if you disbelieve it is because Allah MADE you disbelieve yet one gets infinite reward and another gets infinite punishment.
Does that make any sense?
in the way you presented, no it doesn't make sense. faithful-jinn, you cannot take a sentence or part of it and run with it. if you read verses before and after 10100 then yes it does make more sense, at least to me it does. 1099-100, "if God had willed all the people on the earth would have come to believe, one and all. are you going to compel the people to believe except by God's dispensation? he puts doubt in the minds of those who do not think". Ahmed Ali's translation.
if you look at verses 1093 - 103, this is what i understand. there are those among us who will never believe no matter what. then you have those do not not think. and you have those who doubt. What God is saying is that if he willed, he could have made us all believers every single one of us (1099). So, I would be a believer. You would be a believer. Everyone on this earth would be a believer. But God gave us free will, choice. Believing or not believing is a choice we each make. I am not a believer because any person made me a believer that's for sure. No one can make you believe. Now, did God make me a believer?
What God is saying in 1099-100 is no persons can be compelled or forced to believe except by God's will. so you can preach to me till you are blue in the face, i will not believe UNLESS God wills that i do. in other words, you can't force belief on a person. this makes sense as i cannot force you to believe in God. i cannot force or will you to believe. however, God can will you to believe in him.
No one made me believe in God or Koran. I'd say that I came to believe on my own accord AND by God's guidance. I did not come to accept the Koran as a word of God easily. Many things lead me to believe that the Koran is from God.
ok faithful-jinn, my question for you if a believer gets infinite reward and disbeliever gets infinite punishment. Aren't you then being illogical by not disbelieving? This doesn't make sense to me. Also are you saying that it was God who lead you to disbelief as per what you say it is God who wills everything? Although the Koran doesn't really support your views as if God willed, he would have made us all believers 1099. Didn't you come to disbelief based on your own reasoning? brickwall
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in my case, my faith has been shaped by both - personal experiences and God's scriptures. i'd say many a times life experiences lead to losing faith but reading the Koran turned me around. i cannot imagine where or what shape i would be in if it were not for God's scriptures. each person is different. some have an emotional approach, some intellectual, some both or neither. God's scriptures helps me in understanding myself, others and the world that I live in. i'd say it has helped me be the person and where i am today.
Salaam,
I agree. I learn and shaped myself from my experiences and then when I find the same thing in AlQuraan I get the answer how to react to such situation. So, my experiences + AlQuraan made me shape up and make me the strong believer in AlQuraan and Allah. I don't think anything can turn me away from my Lord, except only if He wishes for me so.
This is how my believe becomes strong in AlQuraan as I found everything/ every incident happens in my life is already there in AlQuraan.
mmKhan
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Its not whether they believe or not, its what is their intention coming here and debating us. For what? We all know its a tough world out there and we all know that many things in life is confusing and God can never be fully understood not even by the prophets or angels. What is it they expect from us? They will go in circles. I have seen this before. You spend a lot of time answering their questions only to see them reject your interpretation. You see there are a million reasons to believe and a million reasons not to believe. Verses of the Quran are not relevant when it comes to issues regarding faith. If you believe you will agree with it if you don't you will not. Rather than tell us about their personal lives and why they lost faith, they want to go in circles about scriptures. People do not believe or not because of scriptures. How do you explain all this millions around the world who believe in scriptures. Its not that they are reading something different, Its things happening in their life. The Quran tells us those who do not believe whether yu warn them or not or present all the signs of the world they would not believe. So why bother? I just hate to see people waste their time. I had an experience here with one person who went in circles about slavery and the Quran. Desperately looking for oxygen. He did not want to take any interpretation that he thinks might defend the Quran and wanted anything to find to attack it. Some people hate those who have faith and wished they can lose it like they did. Because people who have faith go through the same challenges as others but the difference is they hanged in there while others threw the towel.Iit is that, and not scriptures, that determines a person's faith.
An honest person will tell you things about his personal life that made him lose faith, but that takes courage.
He says he lost his faith two days ago. Can u believe that? Two days and he is here debating? Most people would spend months going through emotions.
This is sincerity
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/1271874
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/787640
http//www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-God/2349939
Its not about scriptures, its about your personal experiences in life that shapes your faith. But at least with the above crowd they are being honest and sincere. Not beating around the bush. Its a waste of time.
Are you God? What makes you think your oversimplified view of how things work is the only correct one?
You are here parading your personal opinion as if it an undeniable fact.
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Well the Quran you say you believe in itself says its God who shapes our faith......because faith is not something we humans can control.
I don't see the point in such debates since they go nowhere. I will never be able to convince them since they have no faith and neither will they be able to convince me. A person who lost faith has not much to lose but we on the other hand have faith and its the desire of the other party to make us lose that. What other motivation could there be?
True God shapes our faith but we must also want to be shaped. Well, the other party can desire as much as they want but when your faith is firm and on solid ground, they are only wasting time. When someone is resolute in their disbelief or false beliefs, it is a waste of time just the same.
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Are you God? What makes you think your oversimplified view of how things work is the only correct one?
You are here parading your personal opinion as if it an undeniable fact.
What do I have other than my personal opinion? And I never said that my view is the only correct view I said that I am talking from my personal experience in this forum. All people here will do is quote verses of the Quran that you do not believe in anymore. If you have been here for two years than there is not much anybody can add. The issues you raised was discussed here many times and me myself have been involved with them and posted many threads regarding them. I see this going in circles. You will take the interpretation that will suit you. I had a guy here who talked about slavery in the Quran. When that didn't work he moved to why the Quran did not specifically condemn slavery. He wanted to find some fault, some criticism and something to attack the Quran with. He sounded desperate.There are tons of things the Quran did not specifically mentioned. Does he want me to answer why? He got me wasting my time a bit as i assumed he was simply not properly informed. I was wrong. He made a big decision and wanted the convenience of some here going along his path so he feels he was correct in what he did. Misery likes company.
One thing you are right about is that i should have just ignored you. There are many here who will do that. Cause it takes a lot of time to research and post and copy and paste relevant verses of the Quran. It sucks when you realize you were just wasting ur time. You could have easily looked at many threads opened here regarding the issues you raised. But you want to take us on a wild goose chase.
We shall see.