:: Ramadhan Fasting or .....? ::
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Peace mmkhan
Why shahr means full-moon and why not a month?
2185
2185 The month of Ramadhan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for the people and clear proofs of guidance and criterion. So whoever sights the month, let him fast it; and whoever is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of other days. Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship and for you to complete the period and to glorify Allah for that which He has guided you; and perhaps you will be grateful .The highlighted part says "So whoever witnesses alShahr, so let him fast it". Here, if you take shahr as a month, please tell me how can you witness the month? You can witness a calendar, but not the month. Right?
Since when shahr means moon or full moon hmm.I think the meaning of the moon in Arab is this
BOLDMaybe, but you may notice if some of Quranic verses contains allegorical word, the example is"eat your properties" (218
It's imposible if you take this sentence in literal way.If you think you can witness the month, I should ask, which calendar month? Gregorian's, Arabic's, Urdu's, Hindu's or Fiscal calendar? That is not mentioned in the aayat above.
Then how about hijr calendar?? How did you know if Ramadhan is name of a month if you didn't believe on hijr calendar??
Question
How many days we have to fast?
This is the reason I think "ayyaman ma3doodatin" is used, that means "a limited number of days" and a fixed number of days are not given clearly.But you're forgot to mention this following sentence,
"And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days."
If we counting for how many days we fasting based on our own desire, then how about that blue sentence?
I mean this that sentence said implicitly if the days of fasting was determined by Allah (hopefully you understand what I meant)Btw I still appreciate your intepretation handshake
Salaam
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Interesting comments. I am still wrestling with the timing of Ramadan. Majority Muslims follow the lunar calendar and ignore the other timing devices Allah provided - Sun and Stars. The Quran was revealed in Ramadan than how can it be possible that the Quran was revealed at a different time each year. Ramadan mean hot month or after the hot month than how can humans make Ramadan fall at a different time each year. If the lunar calendar is so accurate why doesn't the Muslim world use the calendar for all activity rather than just religious events? The Lunar calendar was developed after Prophet Mohammed died. What calendar did Prophet Mohammed use? Questions, questions but I think important questions if we are truely seeking truth. If we adhere to the Lunar calendar for Ramadan than shouldn't we also use the Lunar calendar for other events. Does this mean that Prophet Mohammed was born and died at different times of the year? According to the Lunar Calendar Ramadan changes by approx. 10 days a year. I have witnessed Ramadan in July but also in January.
Peace everyone
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Interesting comments. I am still wrestling with the timing of Ramadan. Majority Muslims follow the lunar calendar and ignore the other timing devices Allah provided - Sun and Stars. The Quran was revealed in Ramadan than how can it be possible that the Quran was revealed at a different time each year. Ramadan mean hot month or after the hot month than how can humans make Ramadan fall at a different time each year. If the lunar calendar is so accurate why doesn't the Muslim world use the calendar for all activity rather than just religious events? The Lunar calendar was developed after Prophet Mohammed died. What calendar did Prophet Mohammed use? Questions, questions but I think important questions if we are truely seeking truth. If we adhere to the Lunar calendar for Ramadan than shouldn't we also use the Lunar calendar for other events. Does this mean that Prophet Mohammed was born and died at different times of the year? According to the Lunar Calendar Ramadan changes by approx. 10 days a year. I have witnessed Ramadan in July but also in January.
Peace everyone
Excellent questions and important observations!
Thank youI am also waiting for those answers, hoping that someone will be capable answering them and illuminating us with concrete and precise information about WHEN the fasting is, and for how long...
God bless
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Interesting comments. I am still wrestling with the timing of Ramadan. Majority Muslims follow the lunar calendar and ignore the other timing devices Allah provided - Sun and Stars. The Quran was revealed in Ramadan than how can it be possible that the Quran was revealed at a different time each year. Ramadan mean hot month or after the hot month than how can humans make Ramadan fall at a different time each year. If the lunar calendar is so accurate why doesn't the Muslim world use the calendar for all activity rather than just religious events? The Lunar calendar was developed after Prophet Mohammed died. What calendar did Prophet Mohammed use? Questions, questions but I think important questions if we are truely seeking truth. If we adhere to the Lunar calendar for Ramadan than shouldn't we also use the Lunar calendar for other events. Does this mean that Prophet Mohammed was born and died at different times of the year? According to the Lunar Calendar Ramadan changes by approx. 10 days a year. I have witnessed Ramadan in July but also in January.
Peace everyone
Peace,
Haven't you read my recent update on this thread? When you already know that Ramadhan means intense heat, then inshaAllah you may find your answers in this update assuming that you have already read the opening post, inshaAllah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan
Since when shahr means moon or full moon hmm.I think the meaning of the moon in Arab is this
Peace brother,
To me, simply means a Moon, either full moon or crescent or whatever. And please read the update given in my above reply.
BOLDMaybe, but you may notice if some of Quranic verses contains allegorical word, the example is
"eat your properties" (218
It's imposible if you take this sentence in literal way.does not means eat. Please follow this thread to understand what means .
Then how about hijr calendar?? How did you know if Ramadhan is name of a month if you didn't believe on hijr calendar??
But you're forgot to mention this following sentence,
"And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days."
If we counting for how many days we fasting based on our own desire, then how about that blue sentence?
I mean this that sentence said implicitly if the days of fasting was determined by Allah (hopefully you understand what I meant)Btw I still appreciate your intepretation handshake
Salaam
No one is asking your to follow your own desire. Please take a look at the update given before making such comments.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Tens of BILLIONS of believers have been fasting the month of Ramadzaan YEAR AFTER YEAR CONTINOUSLY and without any INTERUPTION for over 1400 years. Now, and after 14 centuries of continuous practice, all of a sudden, a few self-appointed ?prophets? and ?messengers? have started twisting, philosophizing, and complicating the word of GOD, trying to REINVENT the straightforward and simple rituals of GOD?s easy to follow religion.
This is not rocket science. The Qur?aan is very easy to understand. If someone doesn?t know Arabic and does not want to learn a basic Arabic language course either, then one has no choice but to follow those who know the language. There are tons of readily available information resources all over the internet too.
According to The Qur?aan we, as believers, are obligated to fast every single days of the whole month of Ramadzaan from DAWN to DUSK, abstaining from EATING, DRINKING, and COITUS. Of course there are flexibilities for sick, weak, traveler, and?
Peace,
Khalil -
Peace,
To those who disagree and say it is a very wrong thing - it seems like even to consider it - 'non-traditional' fasting, maybe you need a reminder of how some 'traditional' interpretations of the Quran have been rejected by many of us and how many a mullah may say - no, but you've all got 434 wrong because you don't follow the traditional hadith that billions of people followed before you.
We all know what the Quran says about just doing things because others do them. i.e. we shouldn't. In this case of fasting, what other people do may be referred to because of the verse that refers to those before us. But that's why some people here look at the word saum and how it was used in reference to those before us. If a word is used in a particular way elsewhere in the Quran, it is valid to look it up. Even if we say this is about Ramadan, that does not mean that previous verses related to saum are no longer relevant.
I personally have no issue with someone fasting from food and water. Right now I am much more leaning towards fasting from words because the way 'eat and drink' is presented within the context of the verses and the actual subject matter right before and after those words, well it didn't fit together as food and drink - in my opinion. I know other people may view it differently and I am not telling you to agree with me!
Let Allah swt judge between us our differences and Allah swt never turns away the supplicant. If people are being sincere let them follow their own course. Allah swt does not turn sincere people away and that is one reason why He is the actual friend.
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Peace mmkhan.
I don't understand of methodology of your intepretation, but I will give some points
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You may understand about synonym.Yes eat = , but can also akala ( َ or ya'kulu ( ُ.And drink means "sarabu" or "yasrabu".
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You relate verse about sawm with another verse which have no relation with sawm at all, such like 1926.
Now I ask you "Is verse 1926 is Allah's direct commandment for did sawm??".I think not.
May we read again what Maryam said in 1926
?I have vowed an abstinence for the Almighty, so I will not talk today to any of mankind.??
mmkhan, even an elementary kid will know if that sentence is Maryam's commitment or retreat to Allah, not Allah's commandment for fasting to us..Plus Maryam is not a Nabi nor a Rasul, then why we take her as example? .
It also same with verses about Zacharia.Once again it's not about swam Ramadhan, instead about Zacharia's sign for getting a son.
- You also said this
When kuloo and ishrabu is referring to any food and drink, it would be said like "...kuloo wa ishraboo min RIZQI-ALLAHi... " as in 260, and also referring to other things in 2188, 2275, 1024, and many more. Kuloo always used with relation to something said in the same aayat.
Again your fault is you think if a word in one verse is same with the word in another verse, such like you relate kullo-ishraboo in 2187 with kullo-ishraboo in 260.
Now I ask you "Is the word "janaba" in 56 is same with "janaba" in 2811?
You understand Arab and you may know if Arabic words have different meaning depending on it's contect.
Salaaam
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Peace mmkhan.
I don't understand of methodology of your intepretation, but I will give some points
- You may understand about synonym.Yes eat = , but can also akala ( َ or ya'kulu ( ُ.And drink means "sarabu" or "yasrabu".
Peace,
Sorry I disagree.. to me, alQuraan is for guidance not to confuse.
- You relate verse about sawm with another verse which have no relation with sawm at all, such like 1926.
Now I ask you "Is verse 1926 is Allah's direct commandment for did sawm??".I think not.
May we read again what Maryam said in 1926
?I have vowed an abstinence for the Almighty, so I will not talk today to any of mankind.??
Red Don't you see any relation? Pray to God and seek His guidance.
Why did you quote half aayat instead of full? Please do not twist the word of Allah to fit what you follow.
1926
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "How do you understand the highlighted part in 1926?
mmkhan, even an elementary kid will know if that sentence is Maryam's commitment or retreat to Allah, not Allah's commandment for fasting to us..Plus Maryam is not a Nabi nor a Rasul, then why we take her as example? ).
OK, I admit, I am poor than an elementary kid
It also same with verses about Zacharia.Once again it's not about swam Ramadhan, instead about Zacharia's sign for getting a son.
Allah never used the word Saum for Zacharia as in 1926.
- You also said this
Again your faulthy is you think if a word in one verse is same with the word in another verse, such like you relate kullo-ishraboo in 2187 with kullo-ishraboo in 260.
You need to learn patterns and structures set in the Book to understand this .
Now I ask you "Is the word "janaba" in 56 is same with "janaba" in 2811? )
You understand Arab and you may know if Arabic words have different meaning depending on it's contect.
Salaaam
Yes to me "Junub" in 56 and 2811 is same and not only that, I will give you one more in 4103 which is same as well. If we don't understand its true meaning does not mean that we can use separate meanings as we want.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
Sorry I disagree.. to me, alQuraan is for guidance not to confuse.
I also think the same. peace
Why did you quote half aayat instead of full? Please do not twist the word of Allah to fit what you follow.
1926
1926 So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, 'Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to man.' "How do you understand the highlighted part in 1926?
Then I want to ask "Who is the person who said that?" (see 191.
OK, I admit, I am poor than an elementary kid
It's just an example, don't take it literally handshake
Allah never used the word Saum for Zacharia as in 1926.
Yes of course, and I never said something like this and yes Zacharia is no relation with sawm at all.Regarding this, why you claim if fasting is only three days? hmm
You need to learn patterns and structures set in the Book to understand this .
I already notice this, if Quranic verses is correlated each other.
Yes to me "Junub" in 56 and 2811 is same and not only that, I will give you one more in 4103 which is same as well. If we don't understand its true meaning does not mean that we can use separate meanings as we want.
Because to understand the word "junub" in 56, we need Classical Arabic.
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Peace mmkhan.
I also think the same. peace
Peace,
handshake
Then I want to ask "Who is the person who said that?" (see 191.
?? ??? ?? hmm
It's just an example, don't take it literally handshake
handshake
Yes of course, and I never said something like this and yes Zacharia is no relation with sawm at all.Regarding this, why you claim if fasting is only three days? hmm
Did I? &
You may need to give me a reference of it or quote it here.I already notice this, if Quranic verses is correlated each other.
I was not talking about the aayaat of alQuraan, I was talking about the words and letters and also a'raab.
Because to understand the word "junub" in 56, we need Classical Arabic.
O God! Help me please. ;D
Did you ever think why did Allah sent such a Book that has to be dependent on humans or human written material? &May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
In response to Peace,
Haven't you read my recent update on this thread? When you already know that Ramadhan means intense heat, then inshaAllah you may find your answers in this update assuming that you have already read the opening post, inshaAllah.
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhanI did read your posting and found it very interesting but you did not discuss the Hajara calendar and lunar calendar which dictates when Ramadan will occur.
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?? ) ?? hmm
Maryam
Did you ever think why did Allah sent such a Book that has to be dependent on humans or human written material?
Because Quran was sent down with Muhammad's language.
This is my last question for you "Then what is the meaning of junub in 56 according to you bro".
In the last, thanks for having discussion with me. handshake
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In response to Peace,
I did read your posting and found it very interesting but you did not discuss the Hajara calendar and lunar calendar which dictates when Ramadan will occur.
Peace brother,
Thanks!
As per my understanding, hijara calendar or lunar calender, Allah never validated any of them. So, nothing to discuss about them, because they are no other than different calendars available today, until we see something which is accurately in relation with alQuraan, inshaAllah.May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Maryam
Because Quran was sent down with Muhammad's language.
Peace,
Red I never saw any aayat confirming this? Do you have any bro? Please quote. But before quoting it, please take a close look at what you said above.
This is my last question for you "Then what is the meaning of junub in 56 according to you bro".
Red Last question for ever? Oh thank God! Lol
As per my current understanding the word junub means sides, but have no study on it.In the last, thanks for having discussion with me. handshake
Thank you as well handshake
May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan -
Peace kgwithnob,
For me there is no doubt that we should fast during this month. This practice was even mentioned in the Bible. And Jesus even gave some alleged mentions that one should not look like fasting while doing it (in the Bible!). For me the Gospel testimonials are so clear that it is islam we are talking about, even if these passages are twisted to suit the agenda of Christianity.
I have suspected that it is not a matter of a full month, but I have no proof to claim that it is less and thus I yet keep fasting for the full duration.
People were fasting before the advent of Quran, and we are still expected to do it. I think some religious people who adhere to the (God-given) traditions in Judaism and Christianity fast to some extent even if they forgot how much and when to do it.
God bless you
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I don't get it. Why is it ok to go 'it's not rocket science, it's easy to understand', 'an elementary child can do this' to people who are regularly on here. But when I used a direct response to a newcomer that didn't even put it that way - an atheist in this case - it was wrong. Which could have been used to anyone as well.
On a regular basis, we would not use this type of attitude with those outside the fold or its an issue if we do use it. But it is ok to use this type of attitude within it. That's hypocrisy.
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I don't get it. Why is it ok to go 'it's not rocket science, it's easy to understand', 'an elementary child can do this' to people who are regularly on here. But when I used a direct response to a newcomer that didn't even put it that way - an atheist in this case - it was wrong. Which could have been used to anyone as well.
On a regular basis, we would not use this type of attitude with those outside the fold or its an issue if we do use it. But it is ok to use this type of attitude within it. That's hypocrisy.
Thank you for remind us supportpeacenotwar.I already get some discussion with you and yes,your emotion is calm despite you're still young, btw if admins offer a moderator seat, I may suggesting your name. peace.
Plus.Who is "we" you reffering to?
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Come on! Really? Maryam is talking to herself? Is this what you mean?
Peace Timur.
Allah sent down the Quran for some purpose like guidance for our faith.So it's strange if a God sent down the Scripture but meant nothing.
Plus verses regarding Maryam.First Maryam is not a Prophet nor Mesengger, so it's not obligatory to have faith on her.
You claim Maryam talking to herself.Really? Then for why Allah sent down the aayat about a woman talking to herself without anykind of purpose?
Please re-read again Surah Maryam, you will knew if verse 1926 is Maryam's retreat to Allah and there is no commandment for sawm Ramadhan can be found in that verse.
If we fasting like Maryam, then why Allah never said clearly like "Fast!! Like Maryam did" instead said it implicitly.
Bro Timur, do you know why Trinitian teaching is fallacy, because the Bible never said it instead Trinitian priest only claiming if Trinity teaching is written implicitly.
Same with pro-Maryam like fasting, Allah never ordered it in the Quran instead pro Maryam only claims if Allah told us implicitly.I think Quran is very clear book, and we don't even need to play implicit-implicit like Trinitian Christ.
Validated information must have explicit and cleary sources.Sorry my post may offended some peope, but I hope you understand what I mean, Timur.
Salaam.