Are we going the wrong way ?
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I have posted this before
Quranist are either one of those parties
- they only accept the Quran as a religious source.
- They accept the Quran and previous scriptures.
- They accept the Quran and Islamic rituals but not hadiths.
- They accept the Quran and Islamic rituals and hadiths that does not contradict the Quran.
- Not necessarily among any but switch according to specific issues. Most Quranist tend to be in this category, at least the ones here are.
This category seperates the rituals from the hadith. They reason as you did. However there is no evidence that these rituals are prophetic or obligatory or that there was no variance in how they were practiced. In fact Sunni sources says that the early Muslims in mecca prayed twice a day. But you were right that many of these rituals were practiced by Muslims before hadith. But I am not sure how earlier than hadith. These rituals could have been formulated by the Ummayids.
Salaam Bigmo,
Thank you for your reply.
I do agree with you that looking at early Sunni sources does suggest a variance. My cousin was reading a book that suggested that ramadan used to be fixed in February but was changed by the caliph Umar and I also read about their being 2 main prayers which then changed to 5 and then there is a whole host of stuff which can be construed very differently.
Would you be able to suggest books that explore this aspect of early Islam? I would like to read more about it and would appreciate your insights.
Many thanks!
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Salaam Bigmo,
Thank you for your reply.
I do agree with you that looking at early Sunni sources does suggest a variance. My cousin was reading a book that suggested that ramadan used to be fixed in February but was changed by the caliph Umar and I also read about their being 2 main prayers which then changed to 5 and then there is a whole host of stuff which can be construed very differently.
Would you be able to suggest books that explore this aspect of early Islam? I would like to read more about it and would appreciate your insights.
Many thanks!
Try starting with Juynboll, Schacht, Patricia Crone and other orientalist.
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I know that if we search hadiths everything would be "clear" but in a bad-corrupted way. But in other side if we follow Quran alone we have many many different rules contradicting each other and at the same time we are breaking 5417. So where are we wrong ? Anyone has any explanation ?
After watching QuranVsHadith on youtube, I've learned a lot more about the science and history of hadith. I have come to the conclusion that REGARDLESS of following hadith or Quran, people will always pick and choose and have their views. Everyone will personalize their own deen.
Why is that? Well for example, we are under the illusion that hadiths provide solid detailed instructions and information on how to live ourlives and carry out our deen. WRONG. If you open up the book of Sahih Bukhari, and look at the so called authentic hadiths on how to pray, you will find it impossible to even start the takbeer in the beginning of the prayer without some kind of personal view or picking which hadith you want to follow. The reason for that is there are MULTIPLE contradictions in the hadith. If one says prophet Muhammad did so and so, the next one negates it and so forth. So how can one pray according to hadith?
However, on the other hand, the Quran has NO CONTRADICTIONS. The only contradictions are among the people in how they CHOOSE/PERCIEVE/UNDERSTAND the verses in the Quran. This is why there are variations in islamic practices within the quran only community as well as all the muslims around the world.
The only reason why each sect has an established system is due to the early scholars/ullamah that LEAD/SPARKED their own consensus on how Islam should be practiced, by their OWN interpretation and understanding of the Quran and Hadith.
Humans are fallible. We are given a divine scripture and told to ponder on it, read it and apply it. We will never get it right 100%. I've come to conclusion that there is no perfect way of doing it. But just do it the best way that we can while being HONEST to ourselves (not read into the verses and try to see what we want to see).
Allah himself said there are verses that are basic and fundamental which are clear and others which are allegorical and only Allah knows what those allegorical verses mean.
I think TRUTH is SINGLE like you said. Don't forget that among Allah's 99 names is THE Truth!
Therefore Allah is the only TRUTH. So I guess you will only find your answers with Him. Allah Only knows. Allah forgive me for any mistakes I may have said.
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I think TRUTH is SINGLE like you said. Don't forget that among Allah's 99 names is THE Truth!
Therefore Allah is the only TRUTH. So I guess you will only find your answers with Him. Allah Only knows. Allah forgive me for any mistakes I may have said.
Salaam,
hypno
mmKhan
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Salaam,
hypno
mmKhan
Peace mmKhan...
She did ask for forgiveness for any mistakes she made...go easy )
Peace Madiha...
I think the 99 names of Allah is not something based on the teachings of the Qur'an...and that may be what brother mmKhan is getting at. No worries...I was the same way when I first started here...I found that most of what I knew was based on hadith. Just goes to show how corrupted the Sunni faith really is. )
-Amina
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Humans are fallible. We are given a divine scripture and told to ponder on it, read it and apply it. We will never get it right 100%. I've come to conclusion that there is no perfect way of doing it. But just do it the best way that we can while being HONEST to ourselves (not read into the verses and try to see what we want to see).
I like what you write in your post. I agree!
I also think that people often are to quick to demand uniformity in things where it is not needed. People forget that each and everyone is at a different level of understanding at different times in life. Not any one person's world is like any other's. We all have our own different worlds, which are how we perceive things, our past experiences, our perspectives and understandings... and it can never be the same for any two individuals. The things that should unite people, the common denominator, should be direction and intention they have... that is to strive to grow, understand more and better and only spread goodness - the sincere search for truth. In order to spread goodness, one must keep growing and developing as a person, and in one's understanding of self, life, reality. To stagnate in a mold/belief system/understanding is to invite an inevitable decay at every level of oneself.I find it quite interesting to ponder over the fact that if you think you "know it all" and have THE answers and know THE correct religion, then you are indirectly saying that you have the knowledge of God. If you agree that you don't have the knowledge of God, the you'd realize that there will ALWAYS be plenty of room for growth and new understanding. This can be humbling. But religion doesn't teach real humility, coz real humility would threaten the fixed system of religions. Religions only teache a "safe" kind of humility that's designed to make you feel good and proud about yourself.
Peace
Kind regards -
Peace Amina,
I was just trying to highlight that to think thank you anyway.
mmKhan
Peace mmKhan,
If I was out of line I apologize. You do make people think, and I think that is awesome of you...I just remember how it was when I first became a member of the forum and everything I posted was hadith based...it was so unsettling to discover that I knew hardly anything of the Qur'an.
-Amina
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Peace mmKhan,
If I was out of line I apologize. You do make people think, and I think that is awesome of you...I just remember how it was when I first became a member of the forum and everything I posted was hadith based...it was so unsettling to discover that I knew hardly anything of the Qur'an.
-Amina
Peace Amina,
Thank you very much for your kind words and no need for apology handshake
I believe that it is better if each one of us do some kind of research before concluding anything from alQuraan. We all know how to check our grocery items before buying them, we also know very well how to check vegetables before bringing it home, we all know checking every thing is working in a house even if we are going to get it on rent, rest aside buying. But unfortunately many people forget to use their ability of judging between correct and wrong when it comes to alQuraan, and believe in what they like in other's work.
In fact, it is our duty to check by ourselves with our given capabilities. This is how I think and that is why I send alerts sometimes
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
Peace Amina,
Thank you very much for your kind words and no need for apology handshake
I believe that it is better if each one of us do some kind of research before concluding anything from alQuraan. We all know how to check our grocery items before buying them, we also know very well how to check vegetables before bringing it home, we all know checking every thing is working in a house even if we are going to get it on rent, rest aside buying. But unfortunately many people forget to use their ability of judging between correct and wrong when it comes to alQuraan, and believe in what they like in other's work.
In fact, it is our duty to check by ourselves with our given capabilities. This is how I think and that is why I send alerts sometimes
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhanIf I may quote from the Bible "As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Not sure the exact proverb that is from, but it was one of my favorites when I was a Christian...a reminder that we can and do learn from one another. So keep sending those alerts, Insha'Allah, because I know I have benefitted from them several times.
Peace,
Amina
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If I may quote from the Bible "As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Not sure the exact proverb that is from, but it was one of my favorites when I was a Christian...a reminder that we can and do learn from one another. So keep sending those alerts, Insha'Allah, because I know I have benefitted from them several times.
Peace,
Amina
Peace Amina,
Yes, its very true that we learn from each other. And thank you for allowing me to send alerts
May Allah bless you,
mmKhan -
Salaam,
hypno
mmKhan
Peace mmKhan...
She did ask for forgiveness for any mistakes she made...go easy
Peace Madiha...
I think the 99 names of Allah is not something based on the teachings of the Qur'an...and that may be what brother mmKhan is getting at. No worries...I was the same way when I first started here...I found that most of what I knew was based on hadith. Just goes to show how corrupted the Sunni faith really is.
-Amina
They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point
http//muttaqun.com/99names.html
Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.
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there is only one TRUTH - one God, life here is finite, after death is life hereafter, Day of Judgement where we have to stand account to how we lived this life, good deeds get rewarded and bad deeds will be punished. the goal is to attain piety.
the koran is a guide book to getting there - offering tools to achieving the goal. there are different ways of getting there.
having different ways of getting to end point doesn't alter the TRUTH. problem is we tend to obsess over form, details, numbers...losing sight of the TRUTH. we tend to complicate life, having our own ideas each claiming his way is better or right way or the only way.
one example is 'salat'. God tells us what the purpose of salat is. yet, you have people pre-occupied with form, numbers, timing, focusing on the details but missing the point. instead of focusing on the TRUTH - we tend to focus, argue, divide over things, and creating all this confusion.
God is not wrong. We are just stupid.
bravo
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They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point
http//muttaqun.com/99names.html
Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.
Al Hamdulilah! That is good to know!
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They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point
http//muttaqun.com/99names.html
Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.
Salaam PAB,
Thanks for your reply. One question for you Did Allah said that those are Allah's names?
May Allah bless you,
mmKhan -
Salaam PAB,
Thanks for your reply. One question for you Did Allah said that those are Allah's names?
May Allah bless you,
mmKhanWa aleykom asalam,
I honestly don't know if Allah said that those are his names. But they certainly are of his traits/descriptions/characteristics. Isn't Maryam qouted to have called upon Al Rahman, when Gabriel came to her, in the Quran? Sounds like a name or attribute of Allah to me.