Ordinary Miracle (the English Trailer)
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Dear Edip; let my try a fable
Once a crow spread its wings and was carried by the wind to the summit of a mountain. It was a beautiful place populated by other animals, all of them obedient to the One who had given them life. The crow found that truth in all things prevailed on this mountain summit, that the view was beautiful and most instructive, and that all things considered there was no place he would rather be while alive as a crow made of flesh and blood, the components of which coincidentally were all to be found in the bedrock beneath his feet, over which small streams of clear water flowed. The crow said Glory be to our Creator who has made this earth beneath us and those heavens above, and everything in between. This is truly a wonderful mountain summit for the believers to reside upon!
Just beneath the very top of the mountain was a crossroads where many twisting and winding mountain paths met. All sorts of creatures travelled along these paths, sometimes camping out for a while, sometimes moving very little and very slowly. Others hurried as fast as they could go in circles, or back and forth, or were busy with various unproductive activities, like banging their own heads against rocks, or squabbling furiously among themselves. What united all these animals in their behavior was that they all were unable to lift their eyes toward the horizon. Every one of them kept their gazes firmly fixed on their own feet, or the ground in front of them, or upon some object they had themselves placed in front of their faces. Some animals even held objects in front of their faces while simultaneously moving along the mountain paths, by great skills of contortion or clever mechanical devices.
One day, the crow went to a convenient rock right next to the crossroads and waited patiently for some interesting animal to come wandering. In a short while, the crow spotted a goat, with a long goat beard growing from on its chin, wearing a special round hat on its head. On its back the goat carried a large, heavy-looking package.
Peace be upon you, goat! said the crow. What's that load on you back?
It contains an ornate stained glass jar inside which can be found the Book of God said the goat.
Would you like to talk with me about the Book of God that you keep inside the glass jar? asked the crow.
No. said the goat, I would much rather talk about this glass jar inside which the book is kept. It is an ancient jar, and the original design is said to originate with our beloved messenger, whom we call Magical Moe. Our learned scribes say that it is impossible to properly understand the Book of God without having much love and devotion to all things concerning Magical Moe. Also, we like to examine the Book through these cleverly constructed stained glass windows, to ensure that we don't forget how much we love Magical Moe when we show our deep devotion to the Book of God that Magical Moe gave us. I think you are a heretic for disregarding this glass jar we have constructed said the goat, and went along on his journey.Next came a donkey along another mountain path. Onto its back was strapped a wooden stick, projecting out in front of the donkey. From the end of the stick, tied to a short piece of string, dangled and swung a box-like object, right in front of the donkeys face.
-Peace onto you, donkey said the crow. what is that box hanging in front of your face?
-It's an ornate mosaic box inside which I keep the Book of God. I really can't stop and talk to you though, gotta keep moving! shouted the donkey.
The crow flapped over to the donkey and perched himself on the stick, midway between the donkey's face and the string from which the box swung.
-Now you can stay on the move while keeping up this conversation the crow said. Why the constant motion?
-If I stop moving, the box will stop swinging, and I'm afraid of any flaw I might spot in it should it become stationary said the donkey. I much prefer to keep it swinging on the string I have tied to it, because when it is in motion it looks just perfect to me! I really love to talk about this perfect box! I built some of it myself, though the basic design for its mosaic was passed down from my personal friend and messenger, whom I call the Count of Numbers. He showed me that you can make a mosaic pattern that matches certain aspects of numbers one can extract from the Book of God really well. He also showed me that even when the match is not perfect, you can squint your eyes a little like this and it looks just right! said the donkey, and squinted at the box. Yep, juuuust perfect.
-Uh-huh said the crow. Would you like to talk with me about the Book of God, which you keep inside that mosaic box?
-Nope. said the donkey. I am much more interested in the box itself - in fact, the only real use I have for the Book is to have something precious to put inside this mosaic box. The box is what really guides me. Did you know that when we change the letters forming the words of the Book of God just a little bit, it matches the geometrical pattern of the mosaic box even better! The Count of Numbers is where it's at, I tell you. Also, consider this Smart people who use science are credible. Scientists use numbers, and so did I, in making the mosaic pattern on this box. Therefore I am credible. Also, the Book of God is credible, and since I have built a pretty mosaic box around the Book, my box is also credible!
-That's not how science works, nor how the authority of God is transferred said the crow. Science demands intellectual discipline, it's not a word to be misappropriated for the propagating of arbitrary box designs. Be a wise donkey, allow this mosaic box to become stationary, and dare to examine any flaws that might be there. If your box was any good, it should be able to stand any scrutiny. Here's a question for you Does it say anywhere in the Book of God that we should build mosaic boxes around it?
-No. said the donkey, but I have have assumed it's the right thing to do anyway. After all I was told this by the Count of Numbers himself!
-And does the Book of God contain clear instructions regarding the authority of this Count of Numbers, or for this mosaic pattern of the box? asked the crow.
-Not literally, no, but we have chosen to interpret the Book of God to mean this anyways. Then we tried all sorts of box designs until we found one that looks really good if you squint a little and keep it dangling from a string, like I do. All those who do not chose to believe in the wonders of this box are surely ungrateful said the donkey and went on his merry way.The crow went back to the mountain summit, firm in the knowledge that no mosaic box could ever begin to compare to the benefits of the instructive view and the good companionship to be found there.
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Magnus, your story is just a story, a literary piece, with no philosophical merit. Besides, it distorts the facts, since 19 is mentioned in the Quran and all the major elements of the Quran (oasis in your example), including the letter/number combinations starting chapters, the first and the most frequent verse of the Quran, the number of chapters, etc are all based on the number 19. Besides its perfect integration of math (the divine language in universe) with human language, it is also an incredible prophecy... In other words, it is you who is confusing real oasis with mirage.
Your fancy words and scenario might impress some people who have problem with critical thinking, who wish to find an excuse, any excuse to escape from "one of the greatest signs" like a zebra, but those who are aware of the fact that "extra-ordinary claims need extra ordinary evidences" will just smile at your fancy.
For those who wish to read some articles on this issue, please visit
http//19.org/category/yuksel/19-gods-signature-in-nature-and-scripture/
Dear Edip,
With all respect to you, I want to say, we will be unfair to the Quran if we are obssessed with number 19. Even our body itself over a hundred times more powerful to prove God than number 19. If we concentrate on number 19 we will loose focus on Quran. Allah is not going to question us about any number system. Satan has been successful with Muslims. Those who are supposed to follow Islam in the right way (I mean people who follow Quran alone), majority of them are in a different trap by Satan.
Salam
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I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing. -
I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing.Salaam Magnus,
I enjoyed it very much )
And I think you are very talented, not as talented as me ofcourse but still very talented
I would certainly buy your book if you had plans for doing such thing in the future, but I guess as a good friend I will get it from you for free and ofcourse with your signature )Maybe the mods can make a sticky in the off-topic section for people who like writing stories.
Salaam,
Bender -
I must confess I am a little disappointed with the lack of criticism. -[
I know I enjoyed writing it, but did anyone enjoy reading the fable?
Should I write more, or differently?
Any constructive criticism is most welcome. I Sincerely want to improve as a writer, God willing.I enjoyed reading the fable...please do write more
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Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super ))
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection" )
Peace,
Edip -
Peace All.
Are you studying the same Qoran that we are studying?
Those that do not see the " miracle " of
Why are you frightened of numbers?
What do you think mean?
( By the way how would you know where to look if I did not post you these numbers?)
Some claim God has not " numbered" and collected what we now have as "Qoran"?
Are some hesitant in case they have to acknowledge a human messenger?
Just like the older generations before, They deny and ridicule!
Believe what you want, the Lord is our judge .
Peace.
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Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super )
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection"
Peace,
EdipPeace!
Dear Edip
You still haven't figured out my position on this issue, so let me first attempt to make clearer where I stand
I am a fundamentalist, and I am conservative in matters of faith. I figure what good enough for Abraham is good enough for me, and unlike you I don't feel I need blaze any new trails of knowledge, I would rather follow the original belief of the prophets.
I am not afraid to say that I reject any and all attempts at "islamic reform" - I am a Quranic literalist, which means I allow God to define what "islam" actually is, rather than trying to force my own or other's prejudices onto the meaning of this word, regardless of popular beliefs.God willing, you will find that I do not budge from this position easily, and that I am not running anywhere.
I am glad that my attempts at literature and storytelling has been appreciated. I chose to use literary devices and strawman how I perceive your position, because your position seems hard to pin down. You constantly refer to stuff you've previously written, yet you seem afraid to engage in a serious discussion about a serious issue which claims have authority from God behind them?
I stand by the underlying messages of both the desert parable and the fable, some of which I think you must have picked up on.
To clarify and re-iterate a point I made, where I have the donkey (representing you, Edip) saySmart people who use science are credible. Scientists use numbers, and so did I, in making the mosaic pattern on this box. Therefore I am credible. Also, the Book of God is credible, and since I have built a pretty mosaic box around the Book, my box is also credible!
This, in my opinion, is what all your books and arguments boil down to. The only way your ideas seem to have any merit is if you create the illusion of a connection to actual signs from God. In reality, none of these alleged connections have been properly established, and when someone like me call you on it, you huff and puff and run away.
For someone who speaks so much about "facts" (see my bolding of parts of your last post), it is ironic that you haven't really proven the major building blocks of your idea.You accuse me of being afraid of numbers, which isn't true - I find them useful in many ways in my daily life. What I am wary of is becoming mesmerized with them to the point where I forget that they are just abstract representations of something, and not-quite-real in themselves.
Somewhat related, this conversation made me think of Johannes Kepler. He was an astronomer who lived 400 years ago.
He spent most of his career trying to fit reality into a preconceived notion, rather than studying reality with an open mind.
This was his ideathis
http//i.imgur.com/izfyO.pnginside the center of this
http//i.imgur.com/siZek.pngHe thought that platonic solids inside each other had to decide where the orbits of things lined up in our solar system. The problem was that no matter how much he calculated and tweaked the model, it didn't quite add up. That's because he had erroneously and unquestioningly presupposed that orbits were circles. Towards the end of his life he finally questioned this falsity, and God guided him to understand how it actually works (relativistic effects disregarded), and express this in what we today call Kepler's three laws of planetary motion
http//i.imgur.com/XSyoN.pngIllustration of Kepler's three laws with two planetary orbits. (1) The orbits are ellipses, with focal points 1 and 2 for the first planet and 1 and 3 for the second planet. The Sun is placed in focal point 1. (2) The two shaded sectors A1 and A2 have the same surface area and the time for planet 1 to cover segment A1 is equal to the time to cover segment A2. (3) The total orbit times for planet 1 and planet 2 have a ratio a13/2 a23/2.
So, dear Edip, the last point I want to make in this post is this Your "code 19" is like Kepler's obsession with platonic solids and circles in his search for answers. If your idea was any good, it would not rely on blind faith or some subjective taste in the prettiness of certain numbers. Rather, a good idea built on correct presuppositions should be able to stand any scrutiny from any angle, including withstanding basic questions by a stubbornly conservative internet forum poster
- I personally hope I can justify or at the very least apologize for any aspect of my faith/its practice, just like I hope I can defend all the ideas I uphold as truth. If your approach toward honesty and truth are the same as mine, there is no good reason why we couldn't have a civilized discussion about the merits of your ideas without you becoming overly defensive or outright unpleasant with your words.
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Yeah... Please write more fable, legend, fantasy, folktale, all sorts of stories ... You are very talented.. Wow. You are super ))
We all like stories; it is better than reading and learning facts. Learning facts is not easy. It also burdens us with the duty to accept it and stand for it. It is very difficult to accept a fact when the majority of people love stories and believe in stories.
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!
It is ironic that the Quran likens those who demonstrate allergy to the "one of the greatest" signs to donkeys. The donkey in the story is "projection" )
Peace,
EdipSalaam,
Everyone has hobbies, some like to write stories, some like to read stories and some others like to count the number of times our lips touch each other when reciting the first chapter.
Salaam,
Bender -
from
Edip
So, please write more stories for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love stories.. They are brought up with stories since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some lullabies too... Much better than dealing with numbers!To Edip
So, please arrange more number games for us... Especially the ones that distorts the facts, the ones that fool the infantalized readers. People love numbers.. They are brought up with numbers since their baby years. Please do not forget to add some fancy 19 too... Much better than dealing with stories! -
Salam upon those who follow the rightousness!
God says that we should talk in nice manners with the people of the book!
Lets focus on the Ayat in the qhole of the Quran, what God says about 19! Brother Edip can you please share or link the miracle? The actual numbers!
Honestly i tried to make it by myself i couldent come to the same results, nothing was divisable by 19, Sobhanallah! I wish i could find my countings, it was a while ago! We could find it in submission.org before... -
Send me an email via your gmail.com address and ask me for the PDF verison of my book on Nineteen.
Peace,
Edip -
Finally, the documentary film is posted at youtube. The number 19 which remained a secret in chapter 74 (The Hidden) for 19x74 lunar years until it was unveiled by God in year 1974 to a monotheist scientist! It brought explanations to many verses and secrets of the Quran. Furthermore, it exposed the so-called muslims who have betrayed the only book delivered by Muhammad and their God-given brains by adhering the satanic teachings called hadith and sunna and sectarian jurisprudence. It proved the Quran's divine origin and its perfect preservation. It is "one of the greatest" that will distinguish the "progressive ones" from the "regressive ones" that will remove doubts in the heart of those who seek the truth and people of the book, and will disturb the ingrates and hypocrites who will not be able to witness the miracle; they will escape from it like zebras. (See www.19.org for details)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2myxJRz58Q
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Excellent video!
Splendidly well made! Congratulation to the authors!
Thank you
sun
peace
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Peace!
Dear Edip
You still haven't figured out my position on this issue, so let me first attempt to make clearer where I stand
I am a fundamentalist, and I am conservative in matters of faith. I figure what good enough for Abraham is good enough for me, and unlike you I don't feel I need blaze any new trails of knowledge, I would rather follow the original belief of the prophets.Well, Abraham Asked God to show him how he resurrected the dead ( a miracle) 2260.....
Abraham needed a sign/a miracle....I do believe in the #19 as a sign, but i believe that more research needs to be done with the number 19 on other Quran versions, not just the Hafs version, because i don't believe in deleting verses 9128-9.
14 Versions of the Quran!
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603179.0My personal Witness of the 19 miracle
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603419.0 -
Finally, the documentary film is posted at youtube. The number 19 which remained a secret in chapter 74 (The Hidden) for 19x74 lunar years until it was unveiled by God in year 1974 to a monotheist scientist! It brought explanations to many verses and secrets of the Quran. Furthermore, it exposed the so-called muslims who have betrayed the only book delivered by Muhammad and their God-given brains by adhering the satanic teachings called hadith and sunna and sectarian jurisprudence. It proved the Quran's divine origin and its perfect preservation. It is "one of the greatest" that will distinguish the "progressive ones" from the "regressive ones" that will remove doubts in the heart of those who seek the truth and people of the book, and will disturb the ingrates and hypocrites who will not be able to witness the miracle; they will escape from it like zebras. (See www.19.org for details)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2myxJRz58Q
Dear brother Edip, Salamun alaikum
Can you please make a comment on post 18, page 2, another 'miracle' of number 29? Thanks
It is certainly not number 19 that exposed the satanic teachings called hadith. There were a number of scholars in the past and present who questioned the authenticity of hadiths and presented Quran as a complete guidance. The contribution some of such scholars have given to us, for instance, Allama Parwez, is invaluable Regarding Parwez, his life long research produced many valuable books on Quranic teachings, the most celebrated of them being Ma?arif-ul-Quran in eight volumes, Lughat-ul-Quran (dictionary of the Quran) in four volumes, Mafhoom-ul-Quran in three volumes, Tabweeb-ul-Quran (Quran- Classified) in three volumes, Islam A Challenge to Religion, Insaan Ne Kiya Socha (History of human thought), Letters to Saleem in three volumes, Letters to Tahira, Qurani Faislay in five volumes, Shahkar-e-Risalat (the biography of the second Caliph Hazrat Omar), etc.
Wassalam
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Dear Aabdul
Tough the makers of this documentary used my work liberally and though they consulted me frequently, they produced it independently of me and I do not agree with some of the statement in documentary. I would not include the long numbers about al-Fatiha for instance.
I agree with you regarding the problem with such a statement, excluding many others. There were in the past, starting with Muhammad and his close companions who followed the Quran alone. Thus, none of them wrote or compiled hadith books. There were many afterwards, such as Abu Hanifa, Mutazila etc... I am aware of the great work and contribution of Allama Parwez...
On the other hand, I do believe that the discovery of the code 19 made the argument of those who reject hadith much stronger, since we do not need to rely on the trustworthiness of the previous generations for the perfect preservation of the Quran. Besides, it explains many structural features and meaning of many idiosyncratic phrases in the Quran. Furthermore, Rashad's argument for the rejection of hadith in Quran, Hadith and Islam is the strongest argument in the record.
Peace,
Edip