If "Only Allah", then "Allah Alone" is our watchword

The_Chimp

You should.. he might have difficulties to understand what is an argument, and what is quarrelling. laugh

http//i44.tinypic.com/2ijnas0.gif

Guess he and his scholars will be in that tree forever... laughing and testing others to climb that same tree.

If someone has trouble understanding . . . it is not necessary that the fault lies with them . . .

Guess he and his scholars will be in that tree forever

Sectarianism.

I mean when you cannot answer any more - all you have left is petty insults . . . I have proven that time and time again.

The_Chimp

All I asked "drfazl" was to explain . . . what did I get? Petty insults.

I exposed "Muslims" for his sheer ignorance. . . . he cannot even read "Arabic" and his English is poor. Hence - his pet theories are built upon completely mistaken reading of Quran.

Now . . . when he is unable to discuss any further. . . abuse!

No one brought up anything other than the Quran . . . and that is it. So how can you be about the Quran and not be able to read the book?

I have repeatedly exposed that "Quran only" are as far away from Quran as you can get. Person after person after. . .

Zulf

Peace bro

If you now have exposed "Quran alone" to be as far away from the Quran as you can get, person after person.... then what's next?? Having achieved this, what are you doing here?

I'm sure you feel you have proven your point. Are you trying to convert them all to see things the way you do? It won't happen, and you know it. Such a thing will never happen in any group, in any context. So, what is your agenda now? Are you here to learn? If not, isn't your presence here a waste of your time?

You're welcome to stay of course, but it seems utterly useless for you considering your own description of the whole scenario.... unless of course you enjoy the arguing with people (just like many others here do)... but that's not being a role model for peaceful behavior... something many religious and non-religious people alike fail to understand.

The_Chimp

Peace bro

If you now have exposed "Quran alone" to be as far away from the Quran as you can get, person after person.... then what's next?? Having achieved this, what are you doing here?

I'm sure you feel you have proven your point. Are you trying to convert them all to see things the way you do? It won't happen, and you know it. Such a thing will never happen in any group, in any context. So, what is your agenda now? Are you here to learn? If not, isn't your presence here a waste of your time?

You're welcome to stay of course, but it seems utterly useless for you considering your own description of the whole scenario.... unless of course you enjoy the arguing with people (just like many others here do)... but that's not being a role model for peaceful behavior... something many religious and non-religious people alike fail to understand.

Do you have any "specific" problem with me? Why don't you wait and see . . .

Here is what I am after. Is there ANYONE here with some level of competent scholarship?

As Homeopathy is to Medical Science

"Quran only" is to Sunni Islam

Zulf

Do you have any "specific" problem with me? Why don't you wait and see . . .

Nope, I have no specific problem. Since you basically declared the theme of this forum and much of it's active members as proven far away from the teachings of the quran... I just wondered what you're after.

Ok, I'll wait and see. But I'm not sure what to look for.... and judging by experience, I fear that it will never end up at anything conclusive to see in any shape or form.... but that's just from previous experience on this forum. I'll wait.

Here is what I am after. Is there ANYONE here with some level of competent scholarship?

Depends on what you mean with "some level of competent scholarship". If you include that this person needs to agree with you on your religious opinion, then I guess not. Otherwise I think you'd need to define both 'competent' and 'scholarship'. These terms are certainly NOT agreed upon whenever people disagree on something. One side always accuses the other side of incompetence of scholarship or objectivity or sincerity. The idea by both sides in a debate is that if both side were competent scholars, they'd end up at the same conclusion, which never happens. But indeed, objectivity is a huge part of the problem, often of both sides.

But I know there are a couple of people on this forum that are scholarly, and competent... but I'm not one of those. These people are however also human beings, like you and me, and therefore not perfect, and thus there will be disagreements on issues simply since nobody has perfect knowledge.

Peace

As Homeopathy is to Medical Science

"Quran only" is to Sunni Islam

DrGm

So why did god choose this man made language to give his message? Surely - then the fault lies with god? He made Quran reliant upon Arabic? So - if god made Quran bound to Arabic . . .then so is everyone else.

You had pasted my entire post. What was the subject matter for which the post is made? And what was your take on the subject matter taken? Is it the language matter alone or the language matter is linked with a subject proper? Is Maryam a feminine-male based on one of the member's understanding of the language? And then followed by another member using his lexicon starting a debate and argument that would run to volumes of counters to no end. This is your man-made-arabic. Or for that matter in any language the discussion is no discussion but purely arguments each sticking to his view finally to say To you your way; and to me my way. Can you say the meaning of this two phrases using your man-made-arabic?

God chose arabic because the arabians were the worst of its kind in the entire world when the Prophet was chosen to guide such a fallen people who were wild in nature without sense and mind. If the Russians were even worse at that time, the Quran would have come in the Russian. So the choice is not for the language but for the people, worst hit by shaitan.

What does this ayat mean ...

54 17 And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

For each of the word, WE, Easy, Remembrance, But, Is there Anyone, Mind -

Please use and give your entire lexicon bunch in toto and give me the practical approach that suits the mind and the living the word for word meaning, glad tiding, bad news, admonition...

I know chimp, you are interested in arguments and when you are asked to sit down for a conclusive end on a matter, you would walk away as you did in our previous encounter sometime ago.

peace,

again, in the above posting, i found answers given to chimp. also, there are few questions asked to chimp. i'll bring it for the easy take of the readers
1.You had pasted my entire post. What was the subject matter for which the post is made?
2.And what was your take on the subject matter taken?
3.Is it the language matter alone or the language matter is linked with a subject proper?
4.Is Maryam a feminine-male based on one of the member's understanding of the language?
5.To you your way; and to me my way. Can you say the meaning of this two phrases using your man-made-arabic?
6.What does this ayat mean ...
54 17 And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?
7.Please use and give your entire lexicon bunch in toto and give me the practical approach that suits the mind and the living the word for word meaning, glad tiding, bad news, admonition...

this one post contain a question from chimp and answer from drfazl, also it has seven questions asked to chimp. now chimp, second time, i'm interested too in the answers for the above questions from an arabic master/scholar in line with question 7 above.

The_Chimp

Depends on what you mean with "some level of competent scholarship". If you include that this person needs to agree with you on your religious opinion, then I guess not. Otherwise I think you'd need to define both 'competent' and 'scholarship'.

In Arabic, language, Islam, Hadith, Quran . . . history, philosophy, logic, science . . .

I have asked several people who like to throw their weight about, regarding their background. . . shtum. Silence. And out with the insults.

For example . . . I find it deeply ironic that those who allegedly would claim to attach the utmost importance to Quran - and then are unable to read a verse of it correctly. Yet, they build theories on mistaken readings. When this is challenged...

The_Chimp

peace,

again, in the above posting, i found answers given to chimp. also, there are few questions asked to chimp. i'll bring it for the easy take of the readers
1.You had pasted my entire post. What was the subject matter for which the post is made?
2.And what was your take on the subject matter taken?
3.Is it the language matter alone or the language matter is linked with a subject proper?
4.Is Maryam a feminine-male based on one of the member's understanding of the language?
5.To you your way; and to me my way. Can you say the meaning of this two phrases using your man-made-arabic?
6.What does this ayat mean ...
54 17 And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?
7.Please use and give your entire lexicon bunch in toto and give me the practical approach that suits the mind and the living the word for word meaning, glad tiding, bad news, admonition...

this one post contain a question from chimp and answer from drfazl, also it has seven questions asked to chimp. now chimp, second time, i'm interested too in the answers for the above questions from an arabic master/scholar in line with question 7 above.

Who are you? There was Drfazl - I asked him a simple enough question . . . the chap resorted to rudeness! Now you have similar user name. Are you and him same?

I am NOT going back and trawling through posts and then looking back even further to trace posts. I am happy enough to answer ANY question - and I really mean any question. If I cannot and for some reason cannot - I will give reasons for declining.

Hence

1.You had pasted my entire post. What was the subject matter for which the post is made?
2.And what was your take on the subject matter taken?
3.Is it the language matter alone or the language matter is linked with a subject proper?
4.Is Maryam a feminine-male based on one of the member's understanding of the language?

I cannot be bothered going back and looking up previous posts to answer these.

5.To you your way; and to me my way. Can you say the meaning of this two phrases using your man-made-arabic?

The phrase you have highlighted is in English! Also - there is only one Arabic that I am aware of and that is man made.

"And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?"

The above verse is pretty straight forward. Quran is easy to remember . . . so Muslims should learn it by heart.

Please use and give your entire lexicon bunch in toto and give me the practical approach that suits the mind and the living the word for word meaning, glad tiding, bad news, admonition...

I did not understand what you are asking. What is " lexicon bunch". And what is it you are asking here

"give me the practical approach that suits the mind and the living"

Then

the word for word meaning, glad tiding, bad news, admonition...

I did not get what you are asking here either!

DrGm

peace,

again, in the above posting, i found answers given to chimp. also, there are few questions asked to chimp. i'll bring it for the easy take of the readers
1.You had pasted my entire post. What was the subject matter for which the post is made?
2.And what was your take on the subject matter taken?
3.Is it the language matter alone or the language matter is linked with a subject proper?
4.Is Maryam a feminine-male based on one of the member's understanding of the language?
5.To you your way; and to me my way. Can you say the meaning of this two phrases using your man-made-arabic?
6.What does this ayat mean ...
54 17 And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?
7.Please use and give your entire lexicon bunch in toto and give me the practical approach that suits the mind and the living the word for word meaning, glad tiding, bad news, admonition...

this one post contain a question from chimp and answer from drfazl, also it has seven questions asked to chimp. now chimp, second time, i'm interested too in the answers for the above questions from an arabic master/scholar in line with question 7 above.

Who are you? There was Drfazl - I asked him a simple enough question . . . the chap resorted to rudeness! Now you have similar user name. Are you and him same?

I am NOT going back and trawling through posts and then looking back even further to trace posts. I am happy enough to answer ANY question - and I really mean any question. If I cannot and for some reason cannot - I will give reasons for declining.

Hence

I cannot be bothered going back and looking up previous posts to answer these.

The phrase you have highlighted is in English! Also - there is only one Arabic that I am aware of and that is man made.

"And We have certainly made the Qur'an easy for remembrance, so is there any who will remember?"

The above verse is pretty straight forward. Quran is easy to remember . . . so Muslims should learn it by heart.

I did not understand what you are asking. What is " lexicon bunch". And what is it you are asking here

"give me the practical approach that suits the mind and the living"

Then

I did not get what you are asking here either!

peace,
i am one of the member of this forum. i read drfazl's posts closely. we are not same. anyone can see there is no rudeness in the answer given above by drfazl for your question. whereas you have not bothered to answer any of his question.

for your easy i have quoted the same question from this thread. this is only to ease the situation and to remind that you have not answered the question asked previously.

but it's ok now you didn't answer for it's bothering you to trawl previous posts and i think the same suits all answering you.

I did not get what you are asking here either!

quran gives admonition, warning, gladtidings, good message. i expected, that you will give the readers what is the warning in the verses mentioned above?, what is the gladtiding mentioned in the verses above?. how we can use practically the warning and gladtiding in our life so that we all live in peace. so that your understanding guides people to the path of islam and unto Allah.

The_Chimp

peace,
i am one of the member of this forum. i read drfazl's posts closely. we are not same. anyone can see there is no rudeness in the answer given above by drfazl for your question. whereas you have not bothered to answer any of his question.

for your easy i have quoted the same question from this thread. this is only to ease the situation and to remind that you have not answered the question asked previously.

but it's ok now you didn't answer for it's bothering you to trawl previous posts and i think the same suits all answering you.

i did't ask anything, i only quoted drfazl posts. now i understand your stand.

i am one of the member of this forum. i read drfazl's posts closely. we are not same. anyone can see there is no rudeness in the answer given above by drfazl for your question. whereas you have not bothered to answer any of his question.

!? And what question have I not bothered to answer? I asked him a question . . . he didn't answer other than quoting something. I asked to clarify and found him rude.

for your easy i have quoted the same question from this thread. this is only to ease the situation and to remind that you have not answered the question asked previously.

So why were you posing his questions? Let him do it.

but it's ok now you didn't answer for it's bothering you to trawl previous posts and i think the same suits all answering you.

What does this mean

" i think the same suits all answering you"

I don't send people of goose chases.

i did't ask anything, i only quoted drfazl posts. now i understand your stand.

Why? Are you him?

The_Chimp

http//foolproofcure.net/whoami.aspx

Now I am beginning to get it!

In 1984 the doctor abandoned his general medical practice and switched over to homeopathy which he valued as incomparably superior to modern medicine in curing many diseases and palliating wide varieties of the presenting complaints of the patients with just a single remedy; and so simple it is that a few handy drugs are sufficient to feel very homely and safe whenever one sets out. Yet he is not satisfied with the application of the concept of homeopathy for it says, ?The remedy for each patient is different since no two individuals are the same?. But the remedies available are not 6 billion to be individualized for each of the six billion people, but just a handful which means the principle of homeopathy cannot be applied justifiably. And further it is very, very hard to choose the correct and the individualized remedy.

And I hold Homeopathy to utter rubbish.

Oh well. . .

I wonder if this is the same chap!

http//www.indiankanoon.org/doc/1584991/

DrGm

peace chimp,

peace,

quran gives admonition, warning, gladtidings, good message. i expected, that you will give the readers what is the warning in the verses mentioned above?, what is the gladtiding mentioned in the verses above?. how we can use practically the warning and gladtiding in our life so that we all live in peace. so that your understanding guides people to the path of islam and unto Allah.

The_Chimp

peace chimp,

peace,

quran gives admonition, warning, gladtidings, good message. i expected, that you will give the readers what is the warning in the verses mentioned above?, what is the gladtiding mentioned in the verses above?. how we can use practically the warning and gladtiding in our life so that we all live in peace. so that your understanding guides people to the path of islam and unto Allah.

Why have you quoted this?

And which verses?

Are you asking me something? What?

This is what frustrated me about him! brickwall

DrGm

Why have you quoted this?

And which verses?

Are you asking me something? What?

This is what frustrated me about him! brickwall

peace chimp,

ref http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.msg344756#msg344756

no frustration, have patience, i quoted this reply 308.

drfazl

Dis-association, Happen All Through Our Lives - It Is The Way From God

"And when Musa came to the Light, he was called, "O Musa Indeed, I am your God, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa. And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed to you." 20 11-13

Here, Allah embraces Musa with such dearness and closeness and speaks to Musa directly. What a grace, this.

To the contrary, here in the following instance, Musa was dismissed by the dear bondsman of Allah rejecting him for Musa's impatience.

18 60, 65-68 And mention when Moses said to his servant, "I will not cease traveling until I reach the junction of the two seas; And they found there one, from among Our servants to whom We had given mercy from us and had taught him from Our Wisdom, a certain knowledge. Moses said to him, "May I follow you in order, that you teach me from what you have been taught of Wisdom?" He said, "Indeed, with me you will never be able to have patience. And how can you have patience for what you do not encompass in knowledge?"

Juxtaposing these two instances we are taught the following

"For every one We have appointed wisdom directed duties which they perform" 2267. "And everyone has his own wisdom and direction to which he should turn" 2148. This is worshiping and following God endowed Light and Wisdom and the direction of turning and returning to Him in the real sense. Only now we can do good and great things in the path of Allah; such of these bondsmen are well connected to Allah. And Allah brings them all close to each other and together as per His Will and to the Need of the Hour.

In this world, we have companions and dissociations from relationships amongst us. It is not to be considered division among us from our bondage, but God designed dis-association, to make them pure from associations to God, if He finds any such thing amongst His bondsmen, for a period prescribed by Him. Keep following God i.e doing good deeds and it is Him, who would again bring us all together in righteousness and with those who stayed righteous, if He so Will.

drfazl

Chapter 20 Ta Ha

Whenever we speak or do a thing it means we generally wish generously about it in our hearts and in our mind. Without our mind distinctly knowing the goods and evils of what we have in our minds we cannot speak proper, nor do we do good, nor would we progress in the straight path - to the contrary without such thoughtlessness our talks and through the works we do, we would only create chaos to our own as well as to the minds of the entire community.

For example Allah begins chapter 20 with the point Ta Ha. It is His Wish and command for us to purify our minds; and to conduct our hearts, in the Straight Path. This means we have obstacles in our minds and hearts as desires and avarice for the earth materials. These qualities are nothing but that makes us the companions of evil. The character of evil mind is smearing all righteous path as wrong; and commending all the wrongful acts as justified necessities and as the human rights. While virtue is fumed at as ridiculous, immorality is greeted with sophisticated celebration gambling, drinks, sound of musics, songs, dancing, party, sex, fun, sport, entertainment are certain elements of such celebrations. It is humanly impossible to undo all these evils in a population, habituated with such intoxication of body and mind.

The soul is still functioning under Allah's command, to say and remind us of the evils of the above and get purified in the mind and in the body. All that is required of us by Allah is to Trust Him, there is Ample from the Most Beneficent, the Most Pure - if only we entrust Purification of our mind and body, back with His Self.

201
Ta - Thahir, The Most Pure in Promises is
Ha - Hudha, The Only Guide who puts us in the Straight Path.

202 We have not sent down to you the Qur'an that you be distressed.

Despite their claim to be Quran alone people, not a single soul that is distress free. Allah is pure in His promises; it is we who are distrustful and dishonest to Allah.

drfazl

Meeting point of the Two SeasO Musa! O Mankind!

When Musa saw a fire and said to his family, "Stay here; indeed, I have perceived a fire; perhaps I can bring you a torch or find at the fire some guidance."

When Musa set out of Madyan with his family to a far away distance, the night arrives and the darkness shrouds that makes them halt in their journey. The external eyes could not see the way. But Musa was remembering God more for the way; his inner eyes were open all the while during the night while the family members were tired asleep. Musa was alone wakeful prayerfully in his insight, wishing for the safety and for the way, looking up to his God alone.

It is about the time he sees a fire at some distance that which actually is the Light of Allah; Musa perceives the Light as a call towards it and as a means to continue on their journey through the night. He informs his family members to stay put until he comes back from the fire he saw for sure and leaves the family towards the direction he saw the Light. Now only the insight takes Musa to the exact spot as guided by Allah. So much engrossed was Musa in Allah's guidance with faith filling up his heart in total. His heart is cleansed of all the worldly fear and at this purity of his moment, Musa hears the call of Allah O Musa!

Likewise, Allah keeps calling out to all of us; what we lack is the insight overpowering the upsetting material out sight. We always see the fire of external sight that which is the opposite to the Insight, the Light for the brightest future, where Allah is speaking to all of us, all the time. The connecting point with Allah is where the Insight and the out-sight meets i.e. the point where the "two se(a)es" meet.

Stay at the point where the two seas meet and be connected with Allah as much as possible especially when you are left for yourself all alone where the external world which you had believed in, and upon which you had relied so heavily, has finally failed you; Allah is there calling out to you with His hands extended to you. Allah should help us perceive Him when we meet Him, at that meeting point, without fail. So be prayerful O my God, when we are pushed to the meeting point, never fail us; never leave us astray at that crucial moment; Save us now, and Save us ever from the out-sight of our own, shaitaans', jinns' and from their accomplices among men and from our relatives.

"And it is not for any human being be it Musa, or Mankind that Allah should speak to him except by revelation through perception direct by Insight, or from the Malayika who are veiled to your external out-sight, or that He sends a human messenger to reveal and explain, by His permission, what He wills. Indeed, He is Most High and Wise."

Listen to the Call of Allah,"O mankind!" 41, 133, 170, 174 and so on. Stay at the meeting point of the "Two Se(a)es!"

O Allah, The God of All the Worlds!
Make us Listen to Thee -
Open up our Insights;
Save us from our Out-sights;
Keep us at the Meeting Point-
Of the Two 'Seas'!
We are believers unto Thee;
That we Meet with Thee.

dr_rks

Chapter 20 Ta Ha

Whenever we speak or do a thing it means we generally wish generously about it in our hearts and in our mind. Without our mind distinctly knowing the goods and evils of what we have in our minds we cannot speak proper, nor do we do good, nor would we progress in the straight path - to the contrary without such thoughtlessness our talks and through the works we do, we would only create chaos to our own as well as to the minds of the entire community.

For example Allah begins chapter 20 with the point Ta Ha. It is His Wish and command for us to purify our minds; and to conduct our hearts, in the Straight Path. This means we have obstacles in our minds and hearts as desires and avarice for the earth materials. These qualities are nothing but that makes us the companions of evil. The character of evil mind is smearing all righteous path as wrong; and commending all the wrongful acts as justified necessities and as the human rights. While virtue is fumed at as ridiculous, immorality is greeted with sophisticated celebration gambling, drinks, sound of musics, songs, dancing, party, sex, fun, sport, entertainment are certain elements of such celebrations. It is humanly impossible to undo all these evils in a population, habituated with such intoxication of body and mind.

The soul is still functioning under Allah's command, to say and remind us of the evils of the above and get purified in the mind and in the body. All that is required of us by Allah is to Trust Him, there is Ample from the Most Beneficent, the Most Pure - if only we entrust Purification of our mind and body, back with His Self.

201
Ta - Thahir, The Most Pure in Promises is
Ha - Hudha, The Only Guide who puts us in the Straight Path.

202 We have not sent down to you the Qur'an that you be distressed.

Despite their claim to be Quran alone people, not a single soul that is distress free. Allah is pure in His promises; it is we who are distrustful and dishonest to Allah.

16112 And Allah presents an example a city which was safe and secure, its provision coming to it in abundance from every location, but it denied the favors of Allah . So Allah made it taste the envelopment of hunger and fear for what they had been doing.

16113 And there had certainly come to them a Messenger from among themselves, but they denied him; so punishment overtook them while they were wrongdoers.

We are fearless and secure with the blessings of allah and all the materials we got in abundance, all from allah. At the same time when we were doing bad talks and bad deed and whenever we deviate from the right path , the messengers are always there in every part of the world. They are showing the right path.

But most of the people are rejecting messenger's guidance. Natural calamities,war,sufferings in our daily life are due to the rejection of the messenger's guidance. It is our duty to find out who are the messengers. In our place we saw the cyclone which devastated the nearby area, nearby towns. All their developments were brought down which will take 20 years to re-establish.

Now im able to understand the meaning of Ta-Ha. My prayer is "Allah purify our minds and show us the right path ".

DrGm