Do we need books to believe in God?
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I'm not expecting anything just pointing out an irrational attitude (the ultimate puppetmaster punishing those in the most sadist manner possible for a rejection of faith that is controlled by the puppetmaster himself).
In Quran everything is predestined and controlled by God. A rejection of faith or disbelief is due to the non-guidance by God as Quran states. This would be like a software programmer writing an application that is not working with the programmer blaming the application for not functioning. There is no rationality in it.
Quran even states God knows who will be the rejecters and who will be the believers even before you are born. So a child being born, growing up and predestined to become a disbeliever - totally beyond their own control, is ultimately punished in the hereafter for a development that is completely outside of their own control. That is a totally perverse concept. Not to mention it leads to immorality because anything evil-natured a human does is beyond their own control. It removes conscience/guilt and responsibility; anything evil-natured is the work of the devil, anything good-natured is due to Gods guidance, rendering the actions of the individual irrelevant, the only thing that matters is submission to what God has decided for you. This construct, how irrational it may be suits only one purpose total submission, it's nothing but an authoritarian tool.
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Or it's like
Jeff = the cocky student in the swimming class, who cannot yet swim
Bob = GodBob Don't try to swim to the other side of the lake without the arm puffs as yet. You cannot do it on your own.
Jeff Sure I can. Get lost. I know all about swimming. I've seen people do it and I know the theory.
Bob You'll drown.
Jeff Sod off. I can take care of myself. I don't need you.Jeff plunges into the water, and soon sinks.
Bob was right.Could Bob have prevented it? Yes. He could have stopped Jeff, or he could have swam out with him to keep him afloat.
Was Jeff's sinking due to Bob? Yes. In the way that Bob let him do it.
Did Bob know what was going to happen? Yes. He knew Jeff would arrogantly go for it, and fail.
Ok, I just thought of this story, so please don't analyze it in detail to pick it apart. It's just a story trying to illustrate a point.
I totally agree that religion is ridiculous when you look at it with glasses made at the level of religion. Puppet masters and sacrifice is silly. Does this automatically mean the concept of a Divine Creative Source Foundation (or whatever you may call it) is out of the window? No. It only means that religion viewed from a materialistic point of view is silly. Even, most stories of religion may be utterly ridiculous, simply because they are twisted until they have lost their meaning.I think we can find out more about the Divine Source when looking into sources other than religion. Actually, I cannot see any reason for taking religion as a authoritative source or monopoly on the Divine. Religion is NOT representative of the Divine!
Also, when people conclude there is no God simply because they find a certain scripture unconvincing, it's just showing that those people never had any connection to the Divine in the first place. People may have blind faith in a book, and when the book fails them, they conclude God doesn't exist. Well, then they never had faith in God. They ONLY had faith in the book, which is pretty useless imo.
I actually think we can disbelieve in God, but believe in the Divine Foundation of existence. God belongs to religion, which is pretty much fables. Again, it's not either Religion or Atheism, God or no-God. Reality is something different altogether. Religion is believing in mythology of fantastic creatures and events. Atheism is the rejection of such stories, but atheism is also the succumbing to the material world, which equals a failure to see, sense or feel anything beyond the physical input of the five sense. The mind of a religious person and an atheist works in the same way, they just have different focus. Both focus on worldly things, and both are ruled by the mind, the flesh. Perhaps it doesn't seem like this in the case of the religious person, but the stories of the religions are no less material and worldly than what atheists believe in.
Both atheism and religiousness are states of captivity. The mind is the prison.
All religions actually talk about this, but it seems no religious people recognize this.
Actually, religion doesn't teach what religion teaches. -
In Quran everything is predestined and controlled by God.
If there exist something who are all-intelligent and all-knowing and all-powerful.
Then yes He/It will know everything beyond the horizon of time and space.
The definition of such "thing" is not only described in the Quran but also other books..(holy or not holy)A rejection of faith or disbelief is due to the non-guidance by God as Quran states.
In some other books and tradition, faith or unfaith is not important.
It's the action which are important... as the governing law mandated that every action shall resulted in proper reaction. (What goes around comes around)This would be like a software programmer writing an application that is not working with the programmer blaming the application for not functioning. There is no rationality in it. Quran even states God knows who will be the rejecters and who will be the believers even before you are born. So a child being born, growing up and predestined to become a disbeliever - totally beyond their own control, is ultimately punished in the hereafter for a development that is completely outside of their own control. That is a totally perverse concept. Not to mention it leads to immorality because anything evil-natured a human does is beyond their own control. It removes conscience/guilt and responsibility; anything evil-natured is the work of the devil, anything good-natured is due to Gods guidance, rendering the actions of the individual irrelevant, the only thing that matters is submission to what God has decided for you.
If the programmer is blaming an application that he created, then it's clear that the programmer has lose control of the application.
I agree it's irrational and doesn't make sense.Again the "picture" of God within Semitic culture, which started by the Ancient Egyptian, is a human-like God.
God who are jealous, get angry, sadistic, wrote books (yet again and again always blame the human who add or delete something to His books), narcissistic and have big problems with ego.The "Judgement Day" is also 'ridiculous', why wait until certain time?
Given everything is already known even before it begin.Space and time is also merely a creation, modern scientists just starting to realize that..
The illusion of time past, present and future all exist together
https//youtu.be/vrqmMoI0wksAnd this entire 'reality' that we experiencing now is merely a 'hologram'.
https//youtu.be/16WIlRJxnrYThus the "illusion of Space and Time".. as it's merely a 'creation'.
And the "weighting of the deed"??
Again the idea was introduced by the Ancient Egyptian.
https//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Weighing_of_the_heart3.jpgThis construct, how irrational it may be suits only one purpose total submission, it's nothing but an authoritarian tool.
Bingo..
The #1 worst / unforgiving crime listed within the Book Of The Dead (which shall be punished harshly during the day of Judgement / weighting of the heart) is Stealing the King's horses..Couldn't agree more on this verse
"And if it were from any other than God, they would have found in it many a discrepancy"
(482) -
Peace.
Is GOD making the decisions for you?
Are you going to blame other than yourself when you choose your own path/direction/philosophy/friends/likes/dislikes/actions....?
GOD created the fire. Millions are harmed by the fire either by accident or by choice or by others or... Does that mean it is GOD s fault?
You debate in your head before you take the action or you take the action without thinking or ...Is GOD holding a gun to your head and forcing you one way or the other?
OK ,go ahead keep finding excuses just because you( that includes all of us?) want to shift the blame to the Creator!!!!
May be you did not want to exist/be created at all? Did you ask to be created in the first place? You were brought here screaming and against your will and forced to be created a human? What an injustice from the Lord!!!!
GOD says otherwise. GOD says ,out of Mercy He is doing us all a favour? GOD says He does not want robots? GOD says choose freely ,but accept responsibility ( You wanted responsibility)?
Oh what a tragedy! What injustice! what a shame! Even if you were brought to this life kicking and screaming,,now you are here,deal with it! Take this chance and kill you ego.
If one is so clever ,use you cleverness to dig yourself out of pessimism and enjoy being here . Be grateful to your Creator and stop blaming other than yourself.He has created so much support ,provisions,...For you. Be thankful.
Smile ,be good,do good. Love life and all that comes with it.
GOD bless .
Peace. -
I believe there is a factory that made my car. I know my car will not last forever. I still want to read the owner's manual, though. Make sure I don't put the wrong gas/oil in it, service it when I should, etc.
As a Muslim, I believe we were ALL born knowing our Lord and having a natural tendency to submit to Him. We weren't born reading -)
I say this to my family members - if the being who created you left instructions, wouldn't you want to read them?
NOTE - the preceding is nothing but one munkeez perspective. I'm not a scholar. I don't even have a nice beard or funny hat.
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The Reading(Quran) simply confirms what is already within us(Ruh). We were born with this information. However, you must become self-aware to have access to this. The Reading is useless if you are not self-aware. It will just lead you astray. That is your duty in this life, to become self-aware. You will then be able to connect(salat) with The Source of Knowledge, the one who created your soul and taught you.
There is no such thing as a holy book. Quran does not guide. If it did then the Muslims would have been the most righteous people in the world. Instead you see them worshipping rocks and dead people. Muslims also worship the Quran. They believe this book can heal them. Only the Creator can heal you, not a book.
These unaware souls are in coma. They're neither dead, nor alive. A book cannot fix this.
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Quran does not guide.
I beg to disagree.
Personal experience says otherwise.If it did then the Muslims would have been the most righteous people in the world. Instead you see them worshipping rocks and dead people. Muslims also worship the Quran. They believe this book can heal them. Only the Creator can heal you, not a book.
The above logic is fallacious!
It's not the Qurn's fault that traditionalists are deaf/dumb/blind !!!
We have imparted upon thee the Writ/Prescription, with the Truth, for the People.
So, whosoever gets guided then for himself , and whosoever strays then against it. Thou art not a guardian over them. -
I beg to disagree.
Personal experience says otherwise.The above logic is fallacious!
The Reading(Quran) is a piece of knowledge. Knowledge does not guide, The Source of Knowledge guides.
If you're not self-aware, then this piece of knowledge will get you nowhere. You cannot use the Quran to make someone become self-aware. Only the Creator can do that. This is what it means by "Allah guides whom he wills". Religion fails to understand that.It's not the Qurn's fault that traditionalists are deaf/dumb/blind !!!
Souls unaware of themselves are neither dead nor alive. No book or person can guide them. Only their Creator can. They are dumb, deaf and blind because their senses are useless. Self-awareness is require to make use of their senses.. A computer without a working cpu is useless. Shoving a flash drive with some data into it is going to do nothing.
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I'm not expecting anything just pointing out an irrational attitude (the ultimate puppetmaster punishing those in the most sadist manner possible for a rejection of faith that is controlled by the puppetmaster himself).
Hmm, what I don't understand is why you are obsessed over this irrational evil God? Do you realize how unhealthy it makes you appear?
In Quran everything is predestined and controlled by God.
I denied it for a while. I thought it was illogical. But it seems that scientists are actually studying parallel worlds.
Imagine a world where dinosaurs hadn't become extinct, Germany had won World War II and you were born in an entirely different country.
These worlds could exist today in parallel universes, which constantly interact with each other, according to a group of US and Australian researchers.
It may sound like science fiction, but the new theory could resolve some of the irregularities in quantum mechanics that have baffled scientists for centuries.
The team from Griffiths University and the University of California suggest that rather than evolving independently, nearby worlds influence one another by a subtle force of repulsion.
They claim that such an interaction could explain everything that is bizarre about how particles operate on a microscopic scale.
Quantum mechanics is notoriously difficult to fathom, exhibiting weird phenomena which seem to violate the laws of cause and effect.
'The idea of parallel universes in quantum mechanics has been around since 1957,' said Howard Wiseman, a professor in Physics at Griffith University. source http//www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2816039/Parallel-universes-exist-Multiple-versions-living-alternate-worlds-interact-theory-claims.htmlA rejection of faith or disbelief is due to the non-guidance by God as Quran states. This would be like a software programmer writing an application that is not working with the programmer blaming the application for not functioning. There is no rationality in it.
Why not study the meanings of faith and disbelief?
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The Reading(Quran) is a piece of knowledge. Knowledge does not guide, The Source of Knowledge guides.
If you're not self-aware, then this piece of knowledge will get you nowhere. You cannot use the Quran to make someone become self-aware. Only the Creator can do that. This is what it means by "Allah guides whom he wills". Religion fails to understand that.P1. G-D's Guidance is THE Guidance ( ى
P2. The Qurn is a Guidance from G-D (4511,20, 1057, &c.)
Ergo., the Qurn guides,
by the Will of G-D, of course.You saying G-D's Guidance doesn't guide ?!
Or, that it doesn't guide the deaf/dumb/blind who reason not ?!
Did it not admonish them over and over again not to blindly follow their ancestors dogmas/paradigms, but to think/reason and reevaluate ?!!.
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You saying G-D's Guidance doesn't guide ?!
Or, that it doesn't guide the deaf/dumb/blind who reason not ?!You use your eyes to read the Quran. Does that mean your eyes guide you? It doesn't. The Creator gave you equipment and the data. It is your job to turn it into information. The only souls who fail to do so are the ones blinded by a disease in their hearts. They are sick. Their souls are in coma, neither dead nor alive. They did not use their equipment hence they are dumb, deaf and blind.
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You use your eyes to read the Quran. Does that mean your eyes guide you? It doesn't. The Creator gave you equipment and the data. It is your job to turn it into information. The only souls who fail to do so are the ones blinded by a disease in their hearts. They are sick. Their souls are in coma, neither dead nor alive. They did not use their equipment hence they are dumb, deaf and blind.
Ignoratio elenchi.
The Qurn does guide,
those who are willing to be guided. -
Ignoratio elenchi.
The Qurn does guide,
those who are willing to be guided.Quran is like a road to enlightenment. The one who paved the road for you guided you, not the road. Hence Quran does NOT guide. The Source of Knowledge guides.
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Quran is like a road to enlightenment. The one who paved the road for you guided you, not the road. Hence Quran does NOT guide. The Source of Knowledge guides.
The Qurn is not a "road," but a Light shining/illuminating in the darkness (as i pursue), it guides/leads to the straight/correct path, that's it's main purpose/duty .
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The Quran is not a road, but a Light shining in the darkness (as i follow it), it guides/leads to the straight/correct path, that's it's main purpose .
That the Quran can both guide and misguide only shows its double-edged nature, like every thing.
Again, who guides? The light shinning in the darkness or the one who made the light shine?
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Again, who guides? The light shinning in the darkness or the one who made the light shine?
The Light guides/directs/leads by the Will of its Maker/Assigner.
To me, the Qurn is the message-bearer G-D's Messenger.
Conveying G-D's Message/s is what it does. -
I had the same dilemma about this concept of God, knowing all, and still testing humans and rewarding / punishing accordingly. It's like playing a game in God Mode. You know what's gonna happen, yet you still play. Well, I can only hope that it isn't the case here.
To avoid deviation from the subject, I opened a new topic
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608077.0
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I actually agree with Invalid777. That's the reason why traditionalists can't see those anti hadith verses.
And it's why they wrote a false interpretation of the Reading(Quran) and had to invent a false language. For example, SJD to the Muslims is a physical movement. It would be like me randomly claiming today that the word 'thinking' is to prostrate. It takes an extreme amount of deception to go around and tell people to prostrate when they hear the word 'think'.
No matter how much knowledge you provide them(Quran, Tora, Gospel), they'll never get it. They are not self-aware. "I believe in God/Allah and his book/s" are just empty words they parrot. They don't know themselves so how can they know their Creator? They can't. They are "kafireen".
Become self-aware and you will know your Creator and receive knowledge from The Source of Knowledge. Knowledge is not limited to the Reading(Quran) but you also have access to the knowledge you were created with in your Ruh. The Reading(Quran) is a physical copy of what is within you(Ruh). This is why these traditionalists can't see the anti hadith verses. Their hearts are sealed, unaware of themselves. Only the Creator can make someone become self-aware, not a book, stone or human.MUHSIN KHAN
"Those who reject Our signs are deaf and dumb in darkness. Allah sends astray whom He wills and He guides on the Straight Path whom He wills." (639)Quote from another website
Allah has set a seal on the heart of the kafireen
"As to those who reject Faith it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; They will not believe. "Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil Great is the penalty they incur."
2. The word qalb in Arabic means heart as well as intelligenceThe Arabic word qalb used in these verses means the heart. It also means intelligence. Thus the above verses also mean that Allah has put a seal on the intelligence of the kafirs (unbelievers) and they will not understand and believe.
3. In the Arabic language heart is also used as a centre of understanding
In the Arabic language the word 'heart' is also used to connote one's centre of understanding.