How do YOU reconcile evolution with islam.
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There is no Evolution for one given creation but there is a new creation that differs from the previous creation and have been destroyed and extincted by the power of god and replaced with the new creation and what is left from the previous creation is the fossils.
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Salaam,
I agree, for sience then science forum, books, papers etc and for the truth The Quran.
Salaam,
BenderApart the color of the blouse, what is the difference between an evolutionnist who clam science and a priest who claim science ?
i followed links of the pious evolutionist StopS
http//www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.htmli saw there that defintion of evolution seems to be based now on genetics.
But Nabi Darwin, when he received the message from his God, the Big lotery, Champion of mistakes while simply making copies, in sinai of galapagos, didn't knew what was genetics.i am afraid that message of nabi darwin was profondly altered by actual worshippers
Peace
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Oh please! Why do you think everyone here is dumb? This is the most stupid piece of junk propaganda the Christian ID people at the Discover Institute have managed to come up with.
Its not Christians but scientist. Christians support them for their own reasons. I have researched this for many years and know what i am talking about.
Some more this time from non Christian source. Harun Yahya.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5sfHz3xyNc
And my favorite Jonathan Wells
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcdKTYHLIqA
Its all the same science that Darwinist try to conceal because of their atheism. Its a myth.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTiiMbV01GI
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Peace brothers and sisters in islam and humanity.
How do you like interpret this verse?
?(Allah) said ?O Iblis! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with both my hands? Are you haughty? Or art you one of the exalted?? ?
It should be pretty clear Allah is talking about adam here and how does that fit with evolution or could it be he was the only human tht was created?
And if i make mistakes it is because im on my iphone and ive having some problems with my right eye lately.
Peace! -
Hi Saq
How do you like interpret this verse?
?(Allah) said ?O Iblis! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with both my hands? Are you haughty? Or art you one of the exalted?? ?Again I think you are fabricating a problem. Just because Iblis wouldn't bow to Adam doesn't mean that Allah didn't create other people as well. In your interpretation it says "...from prostrating yourself to one whom..." In English this could mean that Adam could be one of many. Maybe Adam was important because of the Garden story. He was an active player in the story. Think about how we narrate much of our history. Only the ones who are important are commented on. When was the last time you heard about Bill the goat farmer in 16th century England who lived a full and wonderful life but didn't change the course of history?
I am still not seeing the problem with Evolution and the Quran.
Just my crazy thoughts...
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace -
Peace and thank you for commenting!
The problem i see is that adam could not have been a part of creation if he was created by Allah's two hands and another thing is could it be an allagory (just asking) because Allah does not have hands because that would be like putting a limit or something on him?
These are just MY crazy thoughts i dont know if the above even makes sense
And just a off topic question were you a jew when you first joined this forum and then convert?
Peace! -
Hi Saq,
I think the "my own hands" portion is allegory. If you create something with your own hands you put work into it. That is the allegory. Allah put work into creating us. So who says Allah didn't create us? Maybe Allah guided evolution to create us? Hence Allah put hard work into the process.
I still identify with my Jewish background. If you read my other posts I really don't see any difference between Islam and Judaism. Same message. Same Goal. Same Religion. They are only incompatible if you make them so. Like in V for Vendetta "everything is a matter of perspective".
Just more crazy thoughts...
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace -
Hi Saq,
I think the "my own hands" portion is allegory. If you create something with your own hands you put work into it. That is the allegory. Allah put work into creating us. So who says Allah didn't create us? Maybe Allah guided evolution to create us? Hence Allah put hard work into the process.
I still identify with my Jewish background. If you read my other posts I really don't see any difference between Islam and Judaism. Same message. Same Goal. Same Religion. They are only incompatible if you make them so. Like in V for Vendetta "everything is a matter of perspective".
Just more crazy thoughts...
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peacePeace and thanks for commenting!
Yeah i can see what you are saying and even though i lived in Denmark most of my life i do feel connected to pakistan where im from too if thats anything like what your saying.
Thank you and peace! ) -
Hi Saq,
Exactly the same as your connection to Pakistan. Besides it lets people know what sort of perspective I may have. I also mention that I have crazy thoughts so that people don't take me too seriously.
I guess these aren't crazy thoughts...
JewishDude
peace Salam, Shalom, Peace peace -
(Sorry this is so long.)
Islam is rooted in the foundation of the Torah. The foundation of the Torah as given by Moses as a marriage covenant between Jehovah and the people of Israel. This marriage pertained specifically to them. Through the history of the Torah we learn about other covenants, such as the Abrahamic covenant. Even still, that covenant only pertains to those who are of the seed of Abraham, which includes Isaac and Ishmael. There are many promises extended to these lineages.
Everything prior to Abraham is foundational to give a more summarized version of what led up to these covenants being made. Most people assume the narrative of Adam and Eve and their offspring depicts them as the same kind of beings as we are. But, if you look carefully, you can see there are distinct difference in several aspects. This is a hint or a clue that a type of historical short-hand is being used.
When you learn the basis upon which this can be deciphered then you also eliminate the apparent contradictions between the Genesis account and what modern science is discovering in terms of our gradual evolution that has been taking placed over hundreds of thousands and even millions of years. All truth agrees.
It is also my belief that deciphering this coded short-hand gives you greater access and confirming keys to open the "hidden book" in the Qur'an that this web-site (www.thehiddenbook.net) is dedicated to revealing.
When you get back into history far enough it doesn't make sense to focus upon the individual actions of individual people. Rather, what you start to look at are things from a larger scale. You start to look at the collective level. What did the people as groups do? These distinct groups of people were given distinct identities and spoken of as if they were individuals themselves. When a certain collective of people take on certain ways of being and organize themselves into "bodies", they are given a name. Paul alludes to this type of body frequently saying that we as individuals are members of the "body of Christ". In Ephesians 530 Paul says that individual people are members of a body of flesh and bone. Even the writers of ancient "myths" used this manner of short-hand. The ancient kingdom of Babylon was given the name Nimrod, for example.
So, when you begin to decipher the narrative of Adam and Eve as beings of flesh and bone, you start to realize that what is being spoken of is gathering individual people, like ourselves, but who lived 5 to 6 thousand years ago, and organizing them into a distinct society. You can think of Adam's 930 year lifespan as the lifespan of a distinct society. You could perhaps even say that Adam's lifespan encompassed a millennium where He ruled and reigned as a King. You could view Adam as the flesh and bone entity that represents the leadership dynasty over a "golden age" society in our earth's history. Evidence of past golden ages is still quite suppressed by mainstream historians because they want just a clean linear progression, but in time we will see more and more evidence of past global civilizations coming into mainstream acceptance.
I've found that when care is taken that holy writ was written with great precision and accuracy provided that you know how to decipher things prior to Abraham in terms of flesh and bone instead of flesh and blood. I have also found that all of the keys of decipherment to read it in this manner are explicitly given in the Bible itself. There is no need to make a set of rules that are external to the text in order to decipher it. The text in and of itself is self-sufficient. My reading of the Holy Qur'an extends and amplifies this, which assures me, though I come from a non-Muslim background, that this book is divinely inspired and deserves complete due respect as holy writ.
What you come to see is that the "creation of a new heavens and a new earth" is the creation or organization of individual souls into some part of a master blueprint that specifies what your circumstances in the following cycle of creation shall be. This master blueprint is the creation account itself. It provides the basic sketch for how the Father organizes all of the individual souls into a creation. When one creation is in the process of ending He organizes a new one and things just continue on and on in cycles. This is why Paul draws upon all of the symbols of the creation account in 1 Corinthians 15 when he teaches about the resurrection in the "world to come". Paul knew the creation account is the blueprint that outlines all of the levels of spiritual glory that we can be foreordained to receive in our resurrection after we are judged. Paul is tapping into the symbolism of the creation account rather than saying some people will resurrect as a fish, a beast or as a sun, moon or a star. Eastern religions tend to believe humans can reincarnate as animals by failing to decipher the symbols.
So, when the Torah is taken as having been written to pertain to only a single cycle, and you understand how to decipher the short-hand, you can then start to link up all that is said of the beginning and what is prophesied to be in the ending. Two adjacent cycles of creation have a period of overlap between them. That which is in the ending is also that which is in the beginning. Latter-day prophecy is best reconciled when you see how it dovetails in with the narrative of Creation. Taking these two together as templates that overlap enables you to snap the "big picture" into a sharp focus so that you can see the end from the beginning.
I have come to see that Christ, as Adam, is the Alpha and the Omega. He comes in the ending to lay the foundation for the new, but He transgresses and falls. However, He is promptly redeemed and He regains His throne in victory. Adam overcoming His fall and regaining His dominion in victory is the beginning of a new cycle. It is only those souls who refuse to participate in Adam's redemption that remain under the curse. Unfortunately, there is little said in mainstream texts about Adam's prompt redemption which has erroneously led Jews and Christians (primarily) and even some Muslims, to hold Adam in perpetual derision and shame. Fortunately, the Holy Qur'an does much to shed a more positive and nobler light upon Adam.
Let's take the creation account as a blueprint to be deciphered as a narrative that speaks about groupings of souls as bodies of flesh and bone
If we look at Day 6 of Creation it calls for the manifestation of man, which is Adam and Eve. If they come right at the end of Day 6 then they will live well into Day 7. And, if we take "a day unto the Lord as a thousand years unto men" per 2 Peter 38 then we learn that a single cycle of creation is indeed a period of about 7,000 years. Therefore, Adam lives well into the last millennium, which is to be the "Sabbath Day of Rest". Rest from what? The tyranny of the adversary preventing Christ's "kingdom of kings". Reading it this way enables you see how Adam is King during the Millennium.
And, if we look at Day 1 of Creation it calls for two great kingdoms. There is the kingdom of the greater light to rule the day and the kingdom of the lesser light to rule the night. The great "light" that is created at that time is the knowledge and intelligence that Adam received in order to have the dominion He was ordained to have. Recall, Adam was created in the exact image and likeness of God. Adam too was a Son of God and was given dominion to rule and reign.
However, because of Adam's transgression, the "sun was darkened" and therefore we see the conditions just prior to a new cycle of creation where there was darkness and chaos. This was due to Cain's murder of Abel and usurping the Father's throne for a period of time as the Son of Perdition. However, Seth, as the Son of Man, renders the acceptable offering and is able to redeem His Father thereby so that He can retake His Throne in victory. This is when the great light breaks forth amidst the darkness and everyone is divided between the "day" and the "night".
So, what we can see happening here is Adam comes forth at the end of the 6th millennium and is given dominion but He transgresses and falls and darkness and chaos comes over the world. But, Son of Man redeems His Father and enables Him to regain His throne in victory. Thus, we have the beginning of a new Day 1 when the "light" of Adam's redemption becomes available for people to gather to. Those who gather to the dominion of Adam are partakers of the Father's Kingdom and enter into His rest with Him. Those who reject it suffer themselves to be taken captive by the dominion of the Son of Perdition who is ordained to be the "lesser light to rule the night".
So, there are 2 dominions established in Day 1 of a new Creation. Everyone is divided into one of them. Those of the "day" are "living" and those of the "night" are "dead". This is life and death in terms of spiritual life, which means the degree to which you retain your individual sovereignty. Adam's Kingdom is a kingdom of kings. The Adversary's kingdom is a kingdom of enslaved subjects who are forced by their government in how they should live, what they should eat, what to do for a living, etc.
This is why today we can see the adversary's kingdom of global tyranny being so successful. Adam is currently in a fallen state and is yet undergoing the process of redemption. Victory for Adam isn't in eliminating the adversary's kingdom altogether. Rather, it is simply getting sufficiently established such that the adversary's kingdom will eventually discontinue trying to suppress it and keep it down. This planet shall host both kingdoms simultaneously as each of them shall have the dominion ordained to them based upon what the people themselves wish to be subject to.
Not everyone wants their individual sovereignty and even fewer have the quality of soul to maintain themselves to a high moral standard when they answer to nobody else but God. Many people actually prefer being subject to a central authority that forces everyone to what it thinks is best for all. Such people who need this will be happier in hell than they would be in the Father's Kingdom as a sovereign individual. Although, there are many who will want their sovereignty that shall weep and wail and gnash their teeth when they realize that they rejected the Father's Kingdom and that this kingdom was the only option if they wanted to maintain their sovereignty. The only path for these souls to overcome their mistake of rejecting the Father's Kingdom is martyrdom.
This is why the time is coming when those who yet identify themselves as mainstream Christians (still looking for the Father's Kingdom) shall be rounded up and martyred. They have claimed with their lips that they understood the Gospel of Jesus but in their actions they violated the tenets He stressed. Christianity was designed to point to something very important in the future, the Father's Kingdom, with warnings if they became corrupted and actually ended up fighting against the very thing they were hoping for and looking for. Jesus said if they beat the servants who came to bring them the Kingdom that they in turn would be "beaten with many stripes". (Luke 12) This is what is starting to happen and shall only get worse, unless and until Christians humble themselves and partake of Adam's redemption. Those who are Jews and Muslim also must recognize the Father's Kingdom as well or their fate shall not be any better than that of Christians.
So, getting back to the question of holy writ vs. evolution, there is only conflict between modern day science and the incorrect manner most religious people interpret the creation account. There is actually a more precise, appropriate and accurate manner to interpret holy writ that brings complete clarity to what it is all pointing toward. What I have shared here is a miniscule tip of a grand and majestic iceberg where huge quantities of information are waiting beneath the surface that demystify holy writ and enable a person to make plain and clear sense of it.
Unfortunately, people have interlaced their religious beliefs with many fantasies that they will not easily give up. Many will be unwilling to admit they have been wrong even if they see that they are wrong. As science continues to progress, with very few exceptions, religious people with false interpretations will either cling to them with pride and boast of their blind faith in the face of clearly established facts that refute them or they will throw it all away as useless fables and renounce their faith. The time of the great division is now upon us thanks in part to modern scientific advancement.
Very few will have the humility, meekness and childlike faith to step into the fresh paradigm of what Adam's redemption entails, which is to see truth clearly on both sides of the apparent divide. Those few who do reach this level of clarity and have integrity to all that it entails shall become the seed stock from which a whole new cycle of Creation is birthed. This is what is happening right now for those who have eyes to see it.
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Do you have a summary or is there a single point?
The summary is the only conflict is between proven scientific facts and false interpretation of God's Word.
There is a way in which God's Word can be deciphered such that there is no conflict between scientific truth and religious truth.All truth is in agreement.
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The summary is the only conflict is between proven scientific facts and false interpretation of God's Word.
There is a way in which God's Word can be deciphered such that there is no conflict between scientific truth and religious truth.All truth is in agreement.
Thank you.
"All truth is in agreement." Are there different versions of the truth?
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) Thank you.
"All truth is in agreement." Are there different versions of the truth?
What he means, and which I have pointed out before, is that one fact (something true) won't contradict another fact. One true fact will not show that another true fact is false... by definition. In this sense, all facts, or truths, are in agreement... i.e. they don't oppose or disqualifiy eachother. Perhaps they are not related to eachother, but then again they won't be in opposition.
An example, even though I know you got it.
Fact 1=wood doesn't burn.
Fact 2=oak burns.
Fact 3=The sky generally appears blue.
Fact 4=Organic material burns.Fact 1 and 2 don't agree with eachother. Both cannot be true. (Fact 1 is not actually a fact, but some people could insist it was.)
Fact 2 and 4 agree with eachother. Both are true, and so they agree.
Fact 3 has not opposition nor agreement with the other facts, because they are unrelated.)
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) Thank you.
"All truth is in agreement." Are there different versions of the truth?
The truth just "is". There are no "different versions" here.
That said, every person has a unique perspective on the truth.
The degree to which perceptions are accurate is the degree truth is grasped.
Some have a much better grasp on truth than others do. -
What he means, and which I have pointed out before, is that one fact (something true) won't contradict another fact. One true fact will not show that another true fact is false... by definition. In this sense, all facts, or truths, are in agreement... i.e. they don't oppose or disqualifiy eachother. Perhaps they are not related to eachother, but then again they won't be in opposition.
An example, even though I know you got it.
Fact 1=wood doesn't burn.
Fact 2=oak burns.
Fact 3=The sky generally appears blue.
Fact 4=Organic material burns.Fact 1 and 2 don't agree with eachother. Both cannot be true. (Fact 1 is not actually a fact, but some people could insist it was.)
Fact 2 and 4 agree with eachother. Both are true, and so they agree.
Fact 3 has not opposition nor agreement with the other facts, because they are unrelated.)
Doesn't that mean the claims which were wrong were never true?
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The truth just "is". There are no "different versions" here.
That said, every person has a unique perspective on the truth.
The degree to which perceptions are accurate is the degree truth is grasped.
Some have a much better grasp on truth than others do.A person's "own truth" is an opinion or a perception until verified by others.
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Doesn't that mean the claims which were wrong were never true?
What?
Do you mean to ask whether false claims were always false? Like, false now --> have always been false?
If so, then no. If I claim that Sweden is now in a union with Norway, then I'm making a false claim, but it was true in the past. Some things change, some don't.Not sure if I misunderstood you.
Peace